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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

'Voice Of Reason said:
'simmonjm said:
'Kev4029 said:
Maybe its just cause I'm a homer, but I think the Nuggets are going to be very improved this upcoming year.PG - Lawson/A Miller/StoneSG - Afflalo/Jordan Hamilton/Brewer/FournierSF - Gallinari/Chandler/BrewerPF - Faried/Harrington/RandolphC - McGee/Koufos/MozgovFour of their five starters should be improved (all but Afflalo, I think he has just about his his ceiling) and they basically added Chandler after him playing most the season in China then getting hurt. The only two losses from last years team are Chris Andersen who isn't as good as any of the 6 bigs on the roster and Rudy Fernandez who isn't very good plus he was hurt most of last year anyway. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see this team win 52-55 games next year plus they have enough extra picks and enough young cheap talent that they could make a trade to upgrade one of their non-Ty Lawson positions.
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While their starters are nothing special there bench is likely the best in the NBA.
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Faried is probably one of the top 15 assets in the league. That's pretty special.
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I'm not even sold on Faried being the top asset on his own team.
 
'the moops said:
Jesus dude. He is a nice player. He hustles and plays defense and rebounds.But seriously, a top 15 asset? You are making Abe look sane.
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I'm not going to defend the top 15 statement but he would probably have been the#2 pick if they re did last years draft and would have rated higher than mkg this year.
 
'Vicktimized said:
'rascal said:
They have no deep threat that will force teams not to crowd the middle.
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??? Lawson and Afflalo each border on 40% career from deep. Gallo had a bad year but is still right around 37%. That's probably abnormally strong if anything.
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Lawson and Gallo are both JR level streaky. They need somebody off the bench who is a consistent threat. Harrington is on the decline, so you can't rely on him.I do love the job Ujiri is doing though. Turned a Melo/Nene into a Affalo, Gallo, McGee, and Chandler...at less $$.
 
'Captain Quinoa said:
Sure Kobe can carry you to a championship, but he's on a max deal. Who wants that when you could have a poor man's Anderson Varejao?
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Statements like this show that you haven't watched him. Other than they are high energy they have very little in common. Varejao is the better defender but Faried is far better with the rest of his game.
 
'Kev4029 said:
'Captain Quinoa said:
Sure Kobe can carry you to a championship, but he's on a max deal. Who wants that when you could have a poor man's Anderson Varejao?
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Statements like this show that you haven't watched him. Other than they are high energy they have very little in common. Varejao is the better defender but Faried is far better with the rest of his game.
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Your comment that he is on the verge of being a perennial all star makes me think you haven't watched him.
 
Keep up the good fight, Kev.

I'm taking notes on how this is done, for when Bismack racks up 10 boards and 4 blocks/game over the first week of the season.

I'm already debating on how long to wait before dropping "Ibaka's just a poor man's Bismack".

 
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Remaining notable FA's...a few contributors in there...

POINT GUARDS: Nate Robinson, Derek Fisher, Delonte West, Jonny Flynn, Keyon Dooling, Gilbert Arenas, Jannero Pargo, Baron Davis, A.J. Price, Sundiata Gaines, Mike Bibby, Earl Boykins, Mike James, Ben Uzoh, Ish Smith, Anthony Carter, Blake Ahearn, Manny Harris, Maalik Wayns.SHOOTING GUARDS: Leandro Barbosa, Ronnie Brewer, Brandon Rush, Sonny Weems, Jodie Meeks, Martell Webster, Marquis Daniels, Michael Redd, Willie Green, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Sasha Vujacic, Maurice Evans, Sam Young, Roger Mason, Dionte Christmas, Alan Anderson, Terrel Harris, DeAndre Liggins, Jermaine Taylor, Von Wafer, Xavier Silas, Bill Walker, Josh Akognon, Darington Hobson.SMALL FORWARDS: Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Delfino, Josh Howard, Matt Barnes, Alonzo Gee, Michael Pietrus, C.J. Miles, Tracy McGrady, Josh Childress, Terrence Williams, Donte Green, Shawne Williams, Damion James, Bobby Simmons, Jason Kapono, Derrick Brown, Jamario Moon, Joey Graham, Damian Wilkins, Rasual Butler, Al Thornton, Adam Morrison, DaJuan Summers, James Singelton.POWER FORWARDS: Carl Landry, Kenyon Martin, Anthony Tolliver, Ivan Johnson, Craig Smith, Lou Amundson, Ronny Turiaf, Shelden Williams, Troy Murphy, Dominic McGuire, D.J. White, Yi Jianlian, Brian Cardinal, Craig Brackins, Brian Scalabrine, Leon Powe, Juwan Howard, Chris Wright, Malcolm Thomas, Hilton Armstrong, Eduardo Najera, Brian Cook, Chris Johnson, Francisco Elson, Lance Thomas.CENTERS: Robin Lopez, Darko Milicic, Ben Wallace, Greg Oden, Mehmet Okur, Jermaine O’Neal, Joel Przybilla, Kyrylo Fesenko, Hamed Haddadi, Daniel Orton, Tony Battie, Eddy Curry, Jamaal Magloire, Mickell Gladness, Mikki Moore, Dan Gadzuric, Erick Dampier, Solomon Alabi, Keith Benson.
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'Abraham said:
Remaining notable FA's...a few contributors in there...

POINT GUARDS: Nate Robinson, Derek Fisher, Delonte West, Jonny Flynn, Keyon Dooling, Gilbert Arenas, Jannero Pargo, Baron Davis, A.J. Price, Sundiata Gaines, Mike Bibby, Earl Boykins, Mike James, Ben Uzoh, Ish Smith, Anthony Carter, Blake Ahearn, Manny Harris, Maalik Wayns.SHOOTING GUARDS: Leandro Barbosa, Ronnie Brewer, Brandon Rush, Sonny Weems, Jodie Meeks, Martell Webster, Marquis Daniels, Michael Redd, Willie Green, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Sasha Vujacic, Maurice Evans, Sam Young, Roger Mason, Dionte Christmas, Alan Anderson, Terrel Harris, DeAndre Liggins, Jermaine Taylor, Von Wafer, Xavier Silas, Bill Walker, Josh Akognon, Darington Hobson.SMALL FORWARDS: Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Delfino, Josh Howard, Matt Barnes, Alonzo Gee, Michael Pietrus, C.J. Miles, Tracy McGrady, Josh Childress, Terrence Williams, Donte Green, Shawne Williams, Damion James, Bobby Simmons, Jason Kapono, Derrick Brown, Jamario Moon, Joey Graham, Damian Wilkins, Rasual Butler, Al Thornton, Adam Morrison, DaJuan Summers, James Singelton.POWER FORWARDS: Carl Landry, Kenyon Martin, Anthony Tolliver, Ivan Johnson, Craig Smith, Lou Amundson, Ronny Turiaf, Shelden Williams, Troy Murphy, Dominic McGuire, D.J. White, Yi Jianlian, Brian Cardinal, Craig Brackins, Brian Scalabrine, Leon Powe, Juwan Howard, Chris Wright, Malcolm Thomas, Hilton Armstrong, Eduardo Najera, Brian Cook, Chris Johnson, Francisco Elson, Lance Thomas.CENTERS: Robin Lopez, Darko Milicic, Ben Wallace, Greg Oden, Mehmet Okur, Jermaine O’Neal, Joel Przybilla, Kyrylo Fesenko, Hamed Haddadi, Daniel Orton, Tony Battie, Eddy Curry, Jamaal Magloire, Mickell Gladness, Mikki Moore, Dan Gadzuric, Erick Dampier, Solomon Alabi, Keith Benson.
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There are at least 3 Top 20 assets in there.
 
'Abraham said:
Remaining notable FA's...a few contributors in there...

POINT GUARDS: Nate Robinson, Derek Fisher, Delonte West, Jonny Flynn, Keyon Dooling, Gilbert Arenas, Jannero Pargo, Baron Davis, A.J. Price, Sundiata Gaines, Mike Bibby, Earl Boykins, Mike James, Ben Uzoh, Ish Smith, Anthony Carter, Blake Ahearn, Manny Harris, Maalik Wayns.

SHOOTING GUARDS: Leandro Barbosa, Ronnie Brewer, Brandon Rush, Sonny Weems, Jodie Meeks, Martell Webster, Marquis Daniels, Michael Redd, Willie Green, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Sasha Vujacic, Maurice Evans, Sam Young, Roger Mason, Dionte Christmas, Alan Anderson, Terrel Harris, DeAndre Liggins, Jermaine Taylor, Von Wafer, Xavier Silas, Bill Walker, Josh Akognon, Darington Hobson.

SMALL FORWARDS: Andrei Kirilenko, Carlos Delfino, Josh Howard, Matt Barnes, Alonzo Gee, Michael Pietrus, C.J. Miles, Tracy McGrady, Josh Childress, Terrence Williams, Donte Green, Shawne Williams, Damion James, Bobby Simmons, Jason Kapono, Derrick Brown, Jamario Moon, Joey Graham, Damian Wilkins, Rasual Butler, Al Thornton, Adam Morrison, DaJuan Summers, James Singelton.

POWER FORWARDS: Carl Landry, Kenyon Martin, Anthony Tolliver, Ivan Johnson, Craig Smith, Lou Amundson, Ronny Turiaf, Shelden Williams, Troy Murphy, Dominic McGuire, D.J. White, Yi Jianlian, Brian Cardinal, Craig Brackins, Brian Scalabrine, Leon Powe, Juwan Howard, Chris Wright, Malcolm Thomas, Hilton Armstrong, Eduardo Najera, Brian Cook, Chris Johnson, Francisco Elson, Lance Thomas.

CENTERS: Robin Lopez, Darko Milicic, Ben Wallace, Greg Oden, Mehmet Okur, Jermaine O’Neal, Joel Przybilla, Kyrylo Fesenko, Hamed Haddadi, Daniel Orton, Tony Battie, Eddy Curry, Jamaal Magloire, Mickell Gladness, Mikki Moore, Dan Gadzuric, Erick Dampier, Solomon Alabi, Keith Benson.
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Wizards!ETA: I like this move. When Wall goes to the bench for a breather, you want to make sure the offense isn't disrupted by a backup PG that can actually make shots.

 
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Looks like you can take Brewer off that list

David Aldridge ‏@daldridgetnt

Knicks continue to build backcourt, agreeing 2 terms with ex-Bull Ronnie Brewer on one-year deal, per source. Check the Hang Time Bkog soon.

 
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Kev4029 said:
'the moops said:
Jesus dude. He is a nice player. He hustles and plays defense and rebounds.But seriously, a top 15 asset? You are making Abe look sane.
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I'm not going to defend the top 15 statement but he would probably have been the#2 pick if they re did last years draft and would have rated higher than mkg this year.
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Top 30 asset?
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Somewhere in the 30 to 45 range, IMO. That's not to say he's a top 50 player right now though, but he has the best contract in the NBA and could be a top 15 to 20 nba player in 2 to 3 years if he can improve his raw yet efficient offensive game and learn some defensive fundementals.
 
'Abraham said:
You are out of your mind if you think Kenneth Faried would have been drafted higher than MKG.
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Why? Mkg and faried are actually very similar players, athletic, high energy, hard working team players with great defensive potential and iffy offensive games. The biggest difference being that Faried proved he can be effective offensively even with a raw skill set.
 
'Kev4029 said:
'Abraham said:
You are out of your mind if you think Kenneth Faried would have been drafted higher than MKG.
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Why? Mkg and faried are actually very similar players, athletic, high energy, hard working team players with great defensive potential and iffy offensive games. The biggest difference being that Faried proved he can be effective offensively even with a raw skill set.
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It may come to pass that Faried is a better player than MKG in the NBA (although I am skeptical). However, the mechanics of the draft (generally) are that potential All-Stars get drafted first, followed by upside guys, followed by contributors. Faried fell to 22 because he was deemed as being a guy that could contribute but didn't have a high ceiling. MKG went 2nd because he was a guy that has upside - if he learns to shoot he could be a sensational player. Put another way - if the Bobcats had offered the #2 pick for Faried, what would Denver have done? They would have said "yes" as fast as possible.I LIKE Faried as a player. I think he has the chance to be very useful for a while. But it's just as reasonable to compare him to Carl Landry as it is MKG.
 
'Kev4029 said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
Have heard the Wolves rumored with both Landry and Rush...both would be great additions, imo.
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Rush would fit nice, landry would be a crappy fit, they need to find minutes for williams to see if he's worth a crap.
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I think Williams will see plenty of minutes at both the 3 and 4. He trimmed down quite a bit and has credited it to his surgery on his nose of all things. (allowing him to work out more) However, he still shot 35% in the Summer League.Landry would fill the "void" left by AR-15 I guess. Just a rotation big and injury insurance. He probably has more opportunities for mins elsewhere.
 
Top 15 might be rather high for Faried given how unproven he is, but it's not as insane as some are saying.

He averaged 16 points and 12 rebounds per 36 last year; that's pretty impressive for a guy that's going out and getting his without having plays really called for him. If you can generate 16 ppg without taking shots away from other guys, that's pretty good and extremely valuable.

Coupled with his rookie contract, he'd likely rank as one of the league's most desirable players. I wouldn't take him over a Rondo, but the only reason anyone would take Wall over him is Wall's potential. So far Faried is a better player.

 
'Vicktimized said:
Top 15 might be rather high for Faried given how unproven he is, but it's not as insane as some are saying. He averaged 16 points and 12 rebounds per 36 last year; that's pretty impressive for a guy that's going out and getting his without having plays really called for him. If you can generate 16 ppg without taking shots away from other guys, that's pretty good and extremely valuable. Coupled with his rookie contract, he'd likely rank as one of the league's most desirable players. I wouldn't take him over a Rondo, but the only reason anyone would take Wall over him is Wall's potential. So far Faried is a better player.
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Landry averaged 17 / 10.5 as a rookie in the same situation (no plays called for him). And he was making about half of what Faried makes.
 
Who has Faried in the build a basketball league? Me!

Who has Rondo? Kev!

I smell a trade.

For real, I need to trade a big man for a point or a wing.

 
'Abraham said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
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I for one am looking forward to Omer Asik's 8ppg, 12rpg, 2.5bpg for the Rockerts this season!
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I'm really hoping Aaron Gray can get back to the 15/10 he put up as a rookie. Looks like the Lakers really got a steal in Jordan Hill. Guy put up 15/14 last year.
 
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
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Per36 is useful when a player has a decent history then gets a decent bump in minutes. Best example that comes to mind is Goran Dragic. 10MPG (up to 26MPG) jump last year yet his Per36 stayed virtually identical to his previous 4 seasons where he averaged 17 minutes per game.Pretty much useless on rookies.
 
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
Click to expand...
Per36 is useful when a player has a decent history then gets a decent bump in minutes. Best example that comes to mind is Goran Dragic. 10MPG (up to 26MPG) jump last year yet his Per36 stayed virtually identical to his previous 4 seasons where he averaged 17 minutes per game.Pretty much useless on rookies.
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Sure, like Abraham, it's a statistical tool.
 
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
Click to expand...
Per36 is useful when a player has a decent history then gets a decent bump in minutes. Best example that comes to mind is Goran Dragic. 10MPG (up to 26MPG) jump last year yet his Per36 stayed virtually identical to his previous 4 seasons where he averaged 17 minutes per game.Pretty much useless on rookies.
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Sure, like Abraham, it's a statistical tool.
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:lol:
 
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
Click to expand...
Per36 is useful when a player has a decent history then gets a decent bump in minutes. Best example that comes to mind is Goran Dragic. 10MPG (up to 26MPG) jump last year yet his Per36 stayed virtually identical to his previous 4 seasons where he averaged 17 minutes per game.Pretty much useless on rookies.
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Sure, like Abraham, it's a statistical tool.
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:lmao:
 
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Notorious T.R.E.,Abraham,TobiasFunke,GDogg,Moe.,Captain Quinoa

Oh, you're back.

 
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
Click to expand...
Per36 is useful when a player has a decent history then gets a decent bump in minutes. Best example that comes to mind is Goran Dragic. 10MPG (up to 26MPG) jump last year yet his Per36 stayed virtually identical to his previous 4 seasons where he averaged 17 minutes per game.Pretty much useless on rookies.
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Its pretty much worthless on guys that play 10mpg because the condition of the game for a player like that is so much more different than a typical starting player that gets big minutes. A guy who plays 10 mpg and puts up huge stats is doing it against scrubs much of the time and is often fresh playing against tired players. Faried didn't do that, he was the starting PF after the Nene trade and played smaller minutes because Karl doesn't like playing rookies, not because he was making lots of mistakes or getting into foul trouble. He should average around 15 and 10 per game this year but if he were to up it to around 18 and 12 I wouldn't be surprised.
 
'Kev4029 said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
Click to expand...
Per36 is useful when a player has a decent history then gets a decent bump in minutes. Best example that comes to mind is Goran Dragic. 10MPG (up to 26MPG) jump last year yet his Per36 stayed virtually identical to his previous 4 seasons where he averaged 17 minutes per game.Pretty much useless on rookies.
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Its pretty much worthless on guys that play 10mpg because the condition of the game for a player like that is so much more different than a typical starting player that gets big minutes. A guy who plays 10 mpg and puts up huge stats is doing it against scrubs much of the time and is often fresh playing against tired players. Faried didn't do that, he was the starting PF after the Nene trade and played smaller minutes because Karl doesn't like playing rookies, not because he was making lots of mistakes or getting into foul trouble. He should average around 15 and 10 per game this year but if he were to up it to around 18 and 12 I wouldn't be surprised.
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Noted.
 
Let's move on from the ridiculous argument that the 2012 USA Team could beat the '92 team, and ask whether they could even beat the '94 or '96 USA Teams:

94:

C: Shaquille O'Neal, Alonzo Mourning

PF: Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman, Shawn Kemp

SF: Dominique Wilkins,Steve Smith

SG: joe Dumars, Reggie Miller, Dan Majerle

PG: Kevin Johnson Mark Price

96:

PG: Penny Hardaway, Gary Payton, John Stockton

SG: Reggie Miller, Mitch Richmond

SF: Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill,

PF: Charles Barkley, Karl Malone

C: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal,David Robinson

 
'Kev4029 said:
'Cliff Clavin said:
'Notorious T.R.E. said:
I love how per36 minute stats are extrapolated out as if that's exactly how the player would perform if he basically doubled his mins.
Click to expand...
Per36 is useful when a player has a decent history then gets a decent bump in minutes. Best example that comes to mind is Goran Dragic. 10MPG (up to 26MPG) jump last year yet his Per36 stayed virtually identical to his previous 4 seasons where he averaged 17 minutes per game.Pretty much useless on rookies.
Click to expand...
Its pretty much worthless on guys that play 10mpg because the condition of the game for a player like that is so much more different than a typical starting player that gets big minutes. A guy who plays 10 mpg and puts up huge stats is doing it against scrubs much of the time and is often fresh playing against tired players. Faried didn't do that, he was the starting PF after the Nene trade and played smaller minutes because Karl doesn't like playing rookies, not because he was making lots of mistakes or getting into foul trouble. He should average around 15 and 10 per game this year but if he were to up it to around 18 and 12 I wouldn't be surprised.
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18 and 12 would be a pretty amazing jump. He averaged 25 MPG after the all-star game and put up 12/8 on a ridiculous shooting % for a guy that is 6'8. Definitely a quality player but lets not get carried away.
 
'Leeroy Jenkins said:
Let's move on from the ridiculous argument that the 2012 USA Team could beat the '92 team, and ask whether they could even beat the '94 or '96 USA Teams:94:C: Shaquille O'Neal, Alonzo MourningPF: Larry Johnson, Derrick Coleman, Shawn KempSF: Dominique Wilkins,Steve SmithSG: joe Dumars, Reggie Miller, Dan MajerlePG: Kevin Johnson Mark Price96:PG: Penny Hardaway, Gary Payton, John StocktonSG: Reggie Miller, Mitch RichmondSF: Scottie Pippen, Grant Hill,PF: Charles Barkley, Karl MaloneC: Hakeem Olajuwon, Shaquille O'Neal,David Robinson
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I think they beat '94, but not '96.
 
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