*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)

[Cliff Clavin]

I realize the lakers have win three straight games for the first time in a while and everyone is dreaming of skittles and unicorns as the team "comes together.". But there is simply no way they can keep gasol at this point, right? It's almost like dantoni is trying to make him snap so they can justify trading one of the best offensive post player in the league. I suppose getting out of gasol's contract would be a big win for them at this point. But it is baffling that he is not factoring in to the offense. :Scola-Martin-trade machine activated:Suns get gasolLakers get frye, Beasley, Marshall.

Why would the Suns want a year and a half of Gasol?

To get rid of Beasley and maybe win a few more games. Drastic, Dudley, gortat, and gasol shouldn't be awful.

So they give away 3 young, cheap players, while they are rebuilding, to get an old guy who will make them not awful for a season?

 

[Abraham]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

Still doesn't mean they should get rid of him for a year of Gasol.

 

[Kev4029]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

Still doesn't mean they should get rid of him for a year of Gasol.

Its an awful trade for both teams. And is Frye ever going to play again? Really the trade ends up being Beasley for Gasol. And old expensive player to the Suns and a young awful player to the Lakers.

 

[Abraham]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

Still doesn't mean they should get rid of him for a year of Gasol.

You are probably right. But I'm a little surprised that the market (at least on the Internet) is down on gasol. He has played relatively poor for the last 80-ish games the lakers have played. I'll grant that. But he was great in the Olympics and even though he has that monster contract, he isn't all that old when you consider some of the guys playing at 35, 36, 37... Gasol could conceivably be a very good player for three or four more years. And of the names being bandied about for trades (josh smith gay) gasol is the most attractive in my opinion. It's a little surprising the grizzlies aren't goinafter him (gasol to Memphis, gay to Toronto, bagrnani/etc to lakers) considering how well his game goes with Marc's.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

Still doesn't mean they should get rid of him for a year of Gasol.

You are probably right. But I'm a little surprised that the market (at least on the Internet) is down on gasol. He has played relatively poor for the last 80-ish games the lakers have played. I'll grant that. But he was great in the Olympics and even though he has that monster contract, he isn't all that old when you consider some of the guys playing at 35, 36, 37... Gasol could conceivably be a very good player for three or four more years. And of the names being bandied about for trades (josh smith gay) gasol is the most attractive in my opinion. It's a little surprising the grizzlies aren't goinafter him (gasol to Memphis, gay to Toronto, bagrnani/etc to lakers) considering how well his game goes with Marc's.

The market is 'down' on him because 32 year olds who make $19M a year aren't in high demand. No bottom feeder is going to trade for him because a year of help hinders rebuilding. No contender is going to trade for him because they'd need to send out $19M in salary which means moving the core of their team. It doesn't have anything to do with his talent.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

Still doesn't mean they should get rid of him for a year of Gasol.

You are probably right. But I'm a little surprised that the market (at least on the Internet) is down on gasol. He has played relatively poor for the last 80-ish games the lakers have played. I'll grant that. But he was great in the Olympics and even though he has that monster contract, he isn't all that old when you consider some of the guys playing at 35, 36, 37... Gasol could conceivably be a very good player for three or four more years. And of the names being bandied about for trades (josh smith gay) gasol is the most attractive in my opinion. It's a little surprising the grizzlies aren't goinafter him (gasol to Memphis, gay to Toronto, bagrnani/etc to lakers) considering how well his game goes with Marc's.

Pau has lost a step and has real problems defending mobile 4's, so he's not a good fit as a PF on any team with a solid center. And you're not going to win a title with Pau as your 5 unless you're stacked elsewhere (Miami) because he's so soft.The market is down on him b/c those who actually watch Laker games instead of just looking at Kobe's FGA in boxscores realize that Pau simply isn't the player he was 2-3 years ago. He can still put up numbers with heavy usage on a bad team, but he's not a franchise player any more on a good team, IMO.

 

[Abraham]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

Still doesn't mean they should get rid of him for a year of Gasol.

You are probably right. But I'm a little surprised that the market (at least on the Internet) is down on gasol. He has played relatively poor for the last 80-ish games the lakers have played. I'll grant that. But he was great in the Olympics and even though he has that monster contract, he isn't all that old when you consider some of the guys playing at 35, 36, 37... Gasol could conceivably be a very good player for three or four more years. And of the names being bandied about for trades (josh smith gay) gasol is the most attractive in my opinion. It's a little surprising the grizzlies aren't goinafter him (gasol to Memphis, gay to Toronto, bagrnani/etc to lakers) considering how well his game goes with Marc's.

Pau has lost a step and has real problems defending mobile 4's, so he's not a good fit as a PF on any team with a solid center. And you're not going to win a title with Pau as your 5 unless you're stacked elsewhere (Miami) because he's so soft.The market is down on him b/c those who actually watch Laker games instead of just looking at Kobe's FGA in boxscores realize that Pau simply isn't the player he was 2-3 years ago. He can still put up numbers with heavy usage on a bad team, but he's not a franchise player any more on a good team, IMO.

So why was he so good at the Olympics?

 

[Ghost Rider]

Exactly. Gasol looked like an absolute beast last summer at the Olympics, so this idea that he isn't the player he used to be is absolute nonsense.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Exactly. Gasol looked like an absolute beast last summer at the Olympics, so this idea that he isn't the player he used to be is absolute nonsense.

It's Lakers fans starting up the hate machine for when he leaves. They will talk bad about him non-stop and devalue his Alpha Role in winning titles. Just like they did/do to Shaq.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Exactly. Gasol looked like an absolute beast last summer at the Olympics, so this idea that he isn't the player he used to be is absolute nonsense.

I can't find box scores and I don't remember all that well- was Gasol really that great throughout the Olympics, or was it just the Gold Medal game? Big difference between looking good for 8 games and looking good for one game. Just this season names like Greg Monroe and Antawn Jamison have had spectacular single game efforts in the front court, and nobody's looking to trade away the farm for those guys.

 

[Abraham]

19 points, 7 and a half boards and three assists for the Olympics.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Exactly. Gasol looked like an absolute beast last summer at the Olympics, so this idea that he isn't the player he used to be is absolute nonsense.

I can't find box scores and I don't remember all that well- was Gasol really that great throughout the Olympics, or was it just the Gold Medal game? Big difference between looking good for 8 games and looking good for one game. Just this season names like Greg Monroe and Antawn Jamison have had spectacular single game efforts in the front court, and nobody's looking to trade away the farm for those guys.

People would be lining up for Monroe if there was a chance that the Pistons would trade him.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Exactly. Gasol looked like an absolute beast last summer at the Olympics, so this idea that he isn't the player he used to be is absolute nonsense.

I can't find box scores and I don't remember all that well- was Gasol really that great throughout the Olympics, or was it just the Gold Medal game? Big difference between looking good for 8 games and looking good for one game. Just this season names like Greg Monroe and Antawn Jamison have had spectacular single game efforts in the front court, and nobody's looking to trade away the farm for those guys.

People would be lining up for Monroe if there was a chance that the Pistons would trade him.

True. He was a bad example. I just ran a search for 30+ point 10+ rebound games this season and didn't feel like doing any more work after that. Anyway, anyone remember how Gasol looked in the Olympics prior to the gold medal game? Although even that is a small sample size, maybe 3-4 games against elite competition at the most.

 

[the moops]

Gasol shot and rebounded well all tournament. He was shooting 59% and averaging 18 ppg going into the gold medal game where he got 24.

 

[the moops]

Appears that Toronto and Memphis are closing in on a deal for Gay. Seems as though Toronto needs someone to take Calderon and his 10 million dollar contract. And it isn't clear what exactly would be going to Memphis besides Ed Davis and some picks. Wonder if the Celtics try and get in on this considering Rondo went down.BOS gets Jose CalderonTOR gets Rudy GayMEM gets Ed Davis and Jeff Green and picksNot sure Memphis wants anything to do with Jeff Green and his ####ty contract though.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Gasol shot and rebounded well all tournament. He was shooting 59% and averaging 18 ppg going into the gold medal game where he got 24.

So maybe there's something to it? Still seems like a small sample size to me, especially considering the level of competition in some of the games, but it was clearly more than a single game effort.

 

[Moe.]

Appears that Toronto and Memphis are closing in on a deal for Gay. Seems as though Toronto needs someone to take Calderon and his 10 million dollar contract. And it isn't clear what exactly would be going to Memphis besides Ed Davis and some picks. Wonder if the Celtics try and get in on this considering Rondo went down.BOS gets Jose CalderonTOR gets Rudy GayMEM gets Ed Davis and Jeff Green and picksNot sure Memphis wants anything to do with Jeff Green and his ####ty contract though.

I can pretty much guarantee you that Memphis is not interested in Green with Hollinger around. He's not exactly a fan of Jeff Green.

 

[Abraham]

I'm fairly certain either Bargnani or Calderon has to go back to Memphis because of salaries. Even if Ed Davis is the guy they want in the deal, Gay makes 16mil a year and has to be traded for comparable salaries since the Grizzlies and Raptors are over the cap. NOt sure exactly how it all works, but he can't be sent packing for really low salaries.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm fairly certain either Bargnani or Calderon has to go back to Memphis because of salaries. Even if Ed Davis is the guy they want in the deal, Gay makes 16mil a year and has to be traded for comparable salaries since the Grizzlies and Raptors are over the cap. NOt sure exactly how it all works, but he can't be sent packing for really low salaries.

The trade moops posted works based on salaries (don't think that is what it ends up being though).

 

[the moops]

Appears that Toronto and Memphis are closing in on a deal for Gay. Seems as though Toronto needs someone to take Calderon and his 10 million dollar contract. And it isn't clear what exactly would be going to Memphis besides Ed Davis and some picks. Wonder if the Celtics try and get in on this considering Rondo went down.BOS gets Jose CalderonTOR gets Rudy GayMEM gets Ed Davis and Jeff Green and picksNot sure Memphis wants anything to do with Jeff Green and his ####ty contract though.

I can pretty much guarantee you that Memphis is not interested in Green with Hollinger around. He's not exactly a fan of Jeff Green.

Yea. Not sure anyone is really a Jeff Green fan anymore.Trading Gay does create a hole at SF for Memphis though

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Appears that Toronto and Memphis are closing in on a deal for Gay. Seems as though Toronto needs someone to take Calderon and his 10 million dollar contract. And it isn't clear what exactly would be going to Memphis besides Ed Davis and some picks. Wonder if the Celtics try and get in on this considering Rondo went down.BOS gets Jose CalderonTOR gets Rudy GayMEM gets Ed Davis and Jeff Green and picksNot sure Memphis wants anything to do with Jeff Green and his ####ty contract though.

I can pretty much guarantee you that Memphis is not interested in Green with Hollinger around. He's not exactly a fan of Jeff Green.

Yea. Not sure anyone is really a Jeff Green fan anymore.Trading Gay does create a hole at SF for Memphis though

And gives them an excess at PF w/ Davis and Green being added to Randolph, Arthur and Leuer.

 

[Gr00vus]

Gasol shot and rebounded well all tournament. He was shooting 59% and averaging 18 ppg going into the gold medal game where he got 24.

So maybe there's something to it? Still seems like a small sample size to me, especially considering the level of competition in some of the games, but it was clearly more than a single game effort.

Gasol still has plenty of game on offense. His defense is probably average or less at his position. The real problem is he's been playing with two centers who deserve prime time in the paint the last couple of years, and none of the coaches in that time span have figured out how to use him effectively in that situation. I think he'd average close to 20/10 if he was returned to being the 1st or 2nd option on a team at least for another couple of years. He's always had old man game anyway.

 

[Kev4029]

Gasol shot and rebounded well all tournament. He was shooting 59% and averaging 18 ppg going into the gold medal game where he got 24.

So maybe there's something to it? Still seems like a small sample size to me, especially considering the level of competition in some of the games, but it was clearly more than a single game effort.

Gasol still has plenty of game on offense. His defense is probably average or less at his position. The real problem is he's been playing with two centers who deserve prime time in the paint the last couple of years, and none of the coaches in that time span have figured out how to use him effectively in that situation. I think he'd average close to 20/10 if he was returned to being the 1st or 2nd option on a team at least for another couple of years. He's always had old man game anyway.

He'd be sooooo perfect in Denver starting at center.

 

[Gr00vus]

Gasol shot and rebounded well all tournament. He was shooting 59% and averaging 18 ppg going into the gold medal game where he got 24.

So maybe there's something to it? Still seems like a small sample size to me, especially considering the level of competition in some of the games, but it was clearly more than a single game effort.

Gasol still has plenty of game on offense. His defense is probably average or less at his position. The real problem is he's been playing with two centers who deserve prime time in the paint the last couple of years, and none of the coaches in that time span have figured out how to use him effectively in that situation. I think he'd average close to 20/10 if he was returned to being the 1st or 2nd option on a team at least for another couple of years. He's always had old man game anyway.

He'd be sooooo perfect in Denver starting at center.

He's the polar opposite of JaVale McGee on the spectrum of big men, that's for sure.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Sounds like Gay will be a Raptor pretty soon.

Adrian Wojnarowski: Raptors and Grizzlies are discussing framework of trade with respective ownership groups now, sources tell Y! Deal could be done tonight. Twitter @WojYahooNBA

Marc Stein: Going online now: ESPN sources say Grizzlies and Raps have deal in place to swap Rudy Gay and Hamed Haddadi for Ed Davis and Jose Calderon Twitter @ESPNSteinLine

Talk of the Pistons or Mavs taking Calderon. ETA: Looks like it is done.

The Memphis Grizzlies and Toronto Raptors have agreed in principle on a trade that will send leading scorer Rudy Gay to the Raptors, according to sources with knowledge of the deal.GaySources told ESPN.com the Grizzlies will acquire forward Ed Davis and veteran guard Jose Calderon from the Raptors and then move Calderon to a third team to ultimately make this a three-team deal.The Detroit Pistons, sources said, are one of the prime options to take on Calderon, having pursued the Spanish floor leader all season.The Grizzlies want a small forward out of the trade and Detroit has two believed to be available: Tayshaun Prince and Corey Maggette. But Memphis, sources said, is talking to at least one other team about taking on Calderon and is expected to receive a second-round pick from Toronto as part of the deal.The Raptors, sources said, are expected to take on Grizzlies reserve center Hamed Haddadi in addition to Gay.The Dallas Mavericks are the other most likely landing spot for Calderon, but sources said Dallas is resistant to parting with Vince Carter, Memphis' prime target on the Mavs' roster.

 

[Yo Mama]

Memphis - Davis, Prince, DayeDetroit - CalderonToronto - Gay, Haddadi ( to be bought out)Grizzlies save $6M this year and $26M over 3 years. Pistons also save some $ next year.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Gay doesn't get a lot of love in the advanced stats community, this seems to have Hollinger's fingerprints on it.

 

[Village Idiot]

Gay doesn't get a lot of love in the advanced stats community, this seems to have Hollinger's fingerprints on it.

Using Hollinger stats this comes out to Detroit +3, Memphis +3, and Toronto -6 wins for this year.I definitely think this trade was Hollinger driven.Plus the fact that 2 years ago with Gay out Memphis gets to round 2.Last year with Gay they get eliminated in the 1st round.

 

[D'OHtis]

Nice move by Memphis. Saved a lot of money and I think they're better.Never thought they'd get a young cheap valued piece like Ed Davis in return.

 

[Gr00vus]

Gay doesn't get a lot of love in the advanced stats community, this seems to have Hollinger's fingerprints on it.

I don't know about Hollinger, it just looks like a salary dump to me. It'd be strange to start messing with a team that's doing pretty well otherwise. Seems like the best player they're getting back is Davis, and big man wasn't exactly an immediate need. Going from Gay to Prince is a slight downgrade IMO.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Gay doesn't get a lot of love in the advanced stats community, this seems to have Hollinger's fingerprints on it.

I don't know about Hollinger, it just looks like a salary dump to me. It'd be strange to start messing with a team that's doing pretty well otherwise. Seems like the best player they're getting back is Davis, and big man wasn't exactly an immediate need. Going from Gay to Prince is a slight downgrade IMO.

Voulgaris thinks he's awful. His PER is not good. His ORtg/DRtg are not good. He has the physical potential to be amazing. He's a freak. But he's yet to put it all together.

 

[whoknew]

Memphis - Davis, Prince, DayeDetroit - CalderonToronto - Gay, Haddadi ( to be bought out)Grizzlies save $6M this year and $26M over 3 years. Pistons also save some $ next year.

Pistons will now have $35 million in cap space next offseason.

 

[Gr00vus]

Gay doesn't get a lot of love in the advanced stats community, this seems to have Hollinger's fingerprints on it.

I don't know about Hollinger, it just looks like a salary dump to me. It'd be strange to start messing with a team that's doing pretty well otherwise. Seems like the best player they're getting back is Davis, and big man wasn't exactly an immediate need. Going from Gay to Prince is a slight downgrade IMO.

Voulgaris thinks he's awful. His PER is not good. His ORtg/DRtg are not good. He has the physical potential to be amazing. He's a freak. But he's yet to put it all together.

I assume you're talking about Gay here? His PER is still better than Prince's on the year, who I assume will be taking Gay's starting spot. Maybe that'll change now that they're on new teams. I realize Memphis is a grinder type of team, but it's still nice to have a guy who's got some dynamic in him on offense, and Gay was that guy for them. I don't think Prince can bring that at this point in his career.ETA: Don't get me wrong, Gay's deal was idiotic from the start, and long term the Griz are well off getting out from under it. I just wonder if they won't take a short term hit on the court as a result.The real question is - why can't these GMs figure this #### out before they hand out stupid deals?

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Gay doesn't get a lot of love in the advanced stats community, this seems to have Hollinger's fingerprints on it.

Using Hollinger stats this comes out to Detroit +3, Memphis +3, and Toronto -6 per game in points.I definitely think this trade was Hollinger driven.Plus the fact that 2 years ago with Gay out Memphis gets to round 2.Last year with Gay they get eliminated in the 1st round.

That is pretty much all based on PER. Raptors gave up 19 and 18 PERs and got back a 14 PER. I don't think anyone really believes that Ed Davis is really an 18 PER guy. He's been playing great lately, largely do to more minutes, weak competition and being spoon fed by Calderon. He's undersized at PF and can't shoot. Looks like a pure salary dump.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Really sucks to see Calderon go and feel real bad for him to be dumped in Detroit :XHe has been nothing but class his entire career. They brought in 3 or 4 guys to try and take his job and every time he ended up winning it back. None of those times did he ##### about coming off the bench. Team/pass first guy all the way. Very few of those in the NBA.

 

[bosoxs45]

Royce White needs to layoff the George Carlin shtick

 

[Abraham]

Memphis - Davis, Prince, DayeDetroit - CalderonToronto - Gay, Haddadi ( to be bought out)Grizzlies save $6M this year and $26M over 3 years. Pistons also save some $ next year.

Pistons will now have $35 million in cap space next offseason.

Whew! For a minute I was worried they wouldn't have room for all the free agents begging to sign with them!

 

[Britney Spears]

Beasley has been a disaster for them. He gets hot for a couple games and then cools off for a month.

Still doesn't mean they should get rid of him for a year of Gasol.

You are probably right. But I'm a little surprised that the market (at least on the Internet) is down on gasol. He has played relatively poor for the last 80-ish games the lakers have played. I'll grant that. But he was great in the Olympics and even though he has that monster contract, he isn't all that old when you consider some of the guys playing at 35, 36, 37... Gasol could conceivably be a very good player for three or four more years. And of the names being bandied about for trades (josh smith gay) gasol is the most attractive in my opinion. It's a little surprising the grizzlies aren't goinafter him (gasol to Memphis, gay to Toronto, bagrnani/etc to lakers) considering how well his game goes with Marc's.

Pau has lost a step and has real problems defending mobile 4's, so he's not a good fit as a PF on any team with a solid center. And you're not going to win a title with Pau as your 5 unless you're stacked elsewhere (Miami) because he's so soft.The market is down on him b/c those who actually watch Laker games instead of just looking at Kobe's FGA in boxscores realize that Pau simply isn't the player he was 2-3 years ago. He can still put up numbers with heavy usage on a bad team, but he's not a franchise player any more on a good team, IMO.

Kobe Bryant?Sorry GB, too easy.

 

[thecatch]

Gay doesn't get a lot of love in the advanced stats community, this seems to have Hollinger's fingerprints on it.

Using Hollinger stats this comes out to Detroit +3, Memphis +3, and Toronto -6 per game in points.I definitely think this trade was Hollinger driven.Plus the fact that 2 years ago with Gay out Memphis gets to round 2.Last year with Gay they get eliminated in the 1st round.

That is pretty much all based on PER. Raptors gave up 19 and 18 PERs and got back a 14 PER. I don't think anyone really believes that Ed Davis is really an 18 PER guy. He's been playing great lately, largely do to more minutes, weak competition and being spoon fed by Calderon. He's undersized at PF and can't shoot. Looks like a pure salary dump.

Admittedly I haven't seen prince play in a while, but conceptually I like the deal for Memphis. Prince isn't as talented as Gay but might better fit with the rest of the Memphis squad as presently constituted. Memphis gets more salary flexibility and another intriguing piece in Davis. I like it.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Good job by Blatche dissing the Heat right before they square off tonight.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Good job by Blatche dissing the Heat right before they square off tonight.

What did Blatche say? All I saw were Reggie Evans' comments.

 

[Abraham]

On the plus side, if the lakers finish the season like they have the last 4 games (.750 ball) they might sneak in to the playoffs.

 

[Ghost Rider]

On the plus side, if the lakers finish the season like they have the last 4 games (.750 ball) they might sneak in to the playoffs.

That might make sense if 75% of the Lakers remaining games are at home...but they aren't. Their collapse at Phoenix last night just shows that they are still the same trainwreck they have been all season.

 

[Dought Man]

Good job by Blatche dissing the Heat right before they square off tonight.

What did Blatche say? All I saw were Reggie Evans' comments.

I think Miami got so used to people hating on them, they almost need this kind of stuff to get pumped up for any regular season game at this point. They looked focused to destroy Brooklyn last night. They usually sleepwalk on the road.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

how long until dwight is shut down?

 

[Juxtatarot]

how long until dwight is shut down?

Interesting quote from Kobe:I'm not worried about it," Bryant said. "It is going to be an all-season thing. That's how those types of injuries are with the labrum. I've had them before. Lamar (Odom) when he was here had them before. It's one of those things when you get banged like that going up, you're going to get that stinging sensation. That's just how it's going to be."He's basically saying if Dwight misses a lot of time, he's a #####.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Not Kobe's place to be commenting on the severity of a teammates injury. He needs to pipe down.

 

[Limp Ditka]

Not Kobe's place to be commenting on the severity of a teammates injury. He needs to pipe down.

The guy has been in the NBA Finals 7 times in 16 seasons. The idea that guys on a football message board know more about when it's ok to comment on injuries than one of the 5-10 greatest to ever lace'm up is ridiculous.

 

[Gr00vus]

Not Kobe's place to be commenting on the severity of a teammates injury. He needs to pipe down.

Any import to he avatar change?I don't care what else happens, I want D'Antoni run out of town on a rail ASAP. It's one thing to be clueless as to how you use your talent, it's another thing to antagonize them like he's doing to Gasol. #### off pringles. I can't believe it, but I actually miss Mike Brown - at least he wasn't an ### hole (as far as I can tell).