*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[Gr00vus]

Did Bogut foul out? This thing went off the rails when he left the game.

 

[Eephus]

Just the way Webber called it

 

[Gr00vus]

Did Bogut foul out? This thing went off the rails when he left the game.

He's only got 3 fouls.

 

[Raider Nation]

I understand the argument. I just don't agree with it. We all act with our own best interests in mind most of the time. Why should we expect athletes to be any different?

If an NBA player is making $20 million for himself, he's creating at least double that for his organization. He's no more beholden to an organization because of that, IMO. If a guy comes back early out of professional pride, or for their teammates, that's great. I'm just saying it should be his decision and his decision alone.

Fair enough, but on the flip side, you both can certainly understand why people would be questioning his heart, yes?

 

[Gr00vus]

cojones

 

[Moe.]

Here is a good article on Lakers Kings game 6. A poorly officiated game no doubt but I agree with the author and Tim.

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

Give it to Jack again

 

[Eephus]

Did Bogut foul out? This thing went off the rails when he left the game.

He's only got 3 fouls.

1. Spurs are playing small

2. Bogut can't hit FTs (unlike Richard Jefferson)

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Really want GS to pull this out even though they just crumbled at the end there.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Steve Rosenbloom - Chicago Tribune

Dont look now, and Derrick Rose apparently isnt, but the Bulls franchise player's image could become a five-alarm fire in the next two weeks.

I didnt think there was anything worse than Roses sitting on the bench in street clothes while hobbled and sick teammates battled to win the Nets series. I mean, sure, Rose looked sharp in that suit, especially compared to Nate Robinsons puking on the bench, and especially when its likely that Rose probably is the healthiest player on that roster.

That scene mightve turned more of Chicago against Rose than anything else during his refusal to complete the last phase of his rehab from ACL surgery on his left knee.

But wait. Theres a scenario that might do worse things for Rose and his image that is battered more than his left knee:

A close series against the Heat.

By close I mean two wins. Three would be remarkable for Team HMO. A series win is a pipe dream, a crackpipe dream, and stop it right now.

But two wins by a Rose-less Bulls would be more than the Rose-led Bulls managed two years ago. Compare and contrast. Oh, and cover your ears before screaming Bulls fans weigh in with thoughts on what the Bulls mightve done with Rose playing.

In the series two years ago, the Bulls won the opener and that was it. LeBron James locked onto Rose down the stretch, and Rose disappeared. That began the screaming for a second star who could get his own shot. Roses brother, Reggie, loudly voiced that sentiment recently, leading many to believe hes the reason that Rose wont come back this season.

Its Roses right to sit out the season to make sure his body is healthy enough to resume his career. However, Rose has created a disaster by refusing to say that he has always planned to skip this season. He has been getting horrible advice in the handling of this. He looks weak-minded in refusing to embrace the last phase of his rehab, which is playing in actual games.

If Rose is as unaware of the virulent reaction to his refusal to play as he claims to be, then he really does have issues.

But back to the series. Imagine if these Bulls with Rose in designer clothes take a couple games against the defending champions who barely have lost a quarter in the postseason. Ka-boom, right, Neil Funk?

Whether its comparable or relevant, the comparison would be made because the image would be as clear and obvious as Robinsons vomiting on the bench. The discussion of Roses wimpiness and selfishness would be loud, believe me. The anger would be palpable. Roses Q rating would plummet below Jerry Krauses, you watch.

A competitive series by the Bulls would be amazing when you consider what a mess they are. Luol Deng is post-spinal tap and might not be done with hospital visits. Kirk Hinrich remains halt or limp --- whatever, hes not going to start the series, if he plays at all. Robinson is getting over the flu, and Taj Gibson has been pathetic.

If you break down the players and spots, you could give the Bulls the edge the way Our Bulls Guy K.C. Johnson did here. But, as K.C. notes, so what? If James stays healthy, its over. If James stays healthy, the Heat could destroy three Central Division teams in 12 games to win the East. If James stays healthy, the Heat are going to win their second straight title.

Seeing Joakim Noah go all Joakim Noah against the Nets in Game 7 is the symbol of the Bulls hope against the Heat. Noah ran and dunked and rotated everywhere defensively against the Nets. The plantar fasciitis was a memory. Noah remains an issue for the Heat. Same goes for Carlos Boozer. Both Bulls big men win their matchups against Chris Bosh at center and Udonis Haslem at power forward.

James, of course, cancels out every matchup advantage. I just wanted to point out the Bulls are not the hopeless bunch you might think.

A healthier version of this Rose-less unit split the four games against the Heat in the regular season. As weve seen, Tom Thibodeau is one of the two or three best coaches in the league because his teams hustle, defend and win. It doesnt seem to matter who has the heart and mind to take a jersey. It doesnt seem to matter who has a vomit bucket like he was ordering bottle service. It doesnt seem to matter who the opponent is.

The Bulls elimination from the postseason comes this series, but I dont see them rolling over. They might lose some games big, but it wont be for a lack of effort, and their usual relentlessness might earn them a couple wins. That would be more than the Bulls managed with Rose in uniform. That might be more than Roses image can take right now.

Roses reputation is in a death spiral. The Bulls postseason advancement has exacerbated the disgust that many Bulls fans are voicing toward Rose. Makes you wonder if Rose would be better off rooting for a Heat sweep.

Amazing how quickly people forget RG3.

Terrible comparison. Just awful.

First of all, fuck you.

Second of all, the principle is the same: An athlete has to protect his own career and his own best interests, because he cannot count on his organization (or his teammates, or the media, or the fans) to do it for him. It's his livelihood if he gets re-injured.

If you worked in a factory, and your factory was trying to be the most productive factory in its industry, would you value that over your own health/paycheck? Would you potentially risk 10-20% of your lifetime earnings for the factory? Of course not.

Spot on. People expect athletes to act selflessly in the best interests of the team and not themselves. And yet they wouldn't (nor should they) do the same in their jobs. Moronic.

He was medically cleared to play 3 months ago. It's not like he's still hurt and people are begging him to come back early.

 

[Gr00vus]

Did Bogut foul out? This thing went off the rails when he left the game.

He's only got 3 fouls.

1. Spurs are playing small

2. Bogut can't hit FTs (unlike Richard Jefferson)

I'd like to think he'd have made things a bit tougher for Parker on all those drives to the basket - it's not like the Ws were going to score more than 2 points in the last 3 and a half minutes anyway.

What a goat Jefferson is. Turns out he just needed to hit one.

 

[EYLive]

Horrible shot selection down the stretch. Did Jackson green light that game plan?

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Did somebody mention I R III?

 

[Gr00vus]

That's got to make Duncan's tummy feel bad again.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

I understand the argument. I just don't agree with it. We all act with our own best interests in mind most of the time. Why should we expect athletes to be any different?

>If an NBA player is making $20 million for himself, he's creating at least double that for his organization. He's no more beholden to an organization because of that, IMO. If a guy comes back early out of professional pride, or for their teammates, that's great. I'm just saying it should be his decision and his decision alone.

Fair enough, but on the flip side, you both can certainly understand why people would be questioning his heart, yes?

Sure. It's a dicey situation, and I get the criticism, but it just strikes me as akin to people gossiping around the water cooler about how Phyllis from HR is still out after her surgery.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Oh and Curry should passed that last shot up.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Don't ever expect anyone to take you seriously when you write stuff like this.

And this is all that matters on random message boards.

Thank you for keeping us grounded. It is so easy to lose sight of what is important in this life.

I know people like to rag on me. (Hell, there's a whole thread currently devoted to it!) But I expect interesting and informed discussion in these threads. If you want to argue about whether or not the Bulls match up well with the Heat, or whether Kobe Bryant is overrated, that's all fine. But if there's one thing I ####### hate, it's when somebody claims that the refs want this or that team to win. Such bull####. If you truly believe that NBA basketball is the same as pro wrestling, why are you bothering to watch?

You obviously missed the Kings/Lakers series in '02.

No I didn't. And I didn't miss the Superbowl between the Steelers and Seahawks either. But I've had to hear whining ever since in both instances.

Do you think the refs showed any favoritism in Game 6 of the 2002 series? Be completely honest.

Honestly? I think they blew several calls in that game, and if they had called them correctly, the Kings would likely have won. But was it deliberate? I don't think so. I don't believe Donoghy.

What did you name your Rastafarian banana?

 

[Harris]

I wonder if Kobe would be playing if he were in Rose's physical state.

>>

Steve Rosenbloom - Chicago Tribune

Dont look now, and Derrick Rose apparently isnt, but the Bulls franchise player's image could become a five-alarm fire in the next two weeks.

I didnt think there was anything worse than Roses sitting on the bench in street clothes while hobbled and sick teammates battled to win the Nets series. I mean, sure, Rose looked sharp in that suit, especially compared to Nate Robinsons puking on the bench, and especially when its likely that Rose probably is the healthiest player on that roster.

That scene mightve turned more of Chicago against Rose than anything else during his refusal to complete the last phase of his rehab from ACL surgery on his left knee.

But wait. Theres a scenario that might do worse things for Rose and his image that is battered more than his left knee:

A close series against the Heat.

By close I mean two wins. Three would be remarkable for Team HMO. A series win is a pipe dream, a crackpipe dream, and stop it right now.

But two wins by a Rose-less Bulls would be more than the Rose-led Bulls managed two years ago. Compare and contrast. Oh, and cover your ears before screaming Bulls fans weigh in with thoughts on what the Bulls mightve done with Rose playing.

In the series two years ago, the Bulls won the opener and that was it. LeBron James locked onto Rose down the stretch, and Rose disappeared. That began the screaming for a second star who could get his own shot. Roses brother, Reggie, loudly voiced that sentiment recently, leading many to believe hes the reason that Rose wont come back this season.

Its Roses right to sit out the season to make sure his body is healthy enough to resume his career. However, Rose has created a disaster by refusing to say that he has always planned to skip this season. He has been getting horrible advice in the handling of this. He looks weak-minded in refusing to embrace the last phase of his rehab, which is playing in actual games.

If Rose is as unaware of the virulent reaction to his refusal to play as he claims to be, then he really does have issues.

But back to the series. Imagine if these Bulls with Rose in designer clothes take a couple games against the defending champions who barely have lost a quarter in the postseason. Ka-boom, right, Neil Funk?

Whether its comparable or relevant, the comparison would be made because the image would be as clear and obvious as Robinsons vomiting on the bench. The discussion of Roses wimpiness and selfishness would be loud, believe me. The anger would be palpable. Roses Q rating would plummet below Jerry Krauses, you watch.

A competitive series by the Bulls would be amazing when you consider what a mess they are. Luol Deng is post-spinal tap and might not be done with hospital visits. Kirk Hinrich remains halt or limp --- whatever, hes not going to start the series, if he plays at all. Robinson is getting over the flu, and Taj Gibson has been pathetic.

If you break down the players and spots, you could give the Bulls the edge the way Our Bulls Guy K.C. Johnson did here. But, as K.C. notes, so what? If James stays healthy, its over. If James stays healthy, the Heat could destroy three Central Division teams in 12 games to win the East. If James stays healthy, the Heat are going to win their second straight title.

Seeing Joakim Noah go all Joakim Noah against the Nets in Game 7 is the symbol of the Bulls hope against the Heat. Noah ran and dunked and rotated everywhere defensively against the Nets. The plantar fasciitis was a memory. Noah remains an issue for the Heat. Same goes for Carlos Boozer. Both Bulls big men win their matchups against Chris Bosh at center and Udonis Haslem at power forward.

James, of course, cancels out every matchup advantage. I just wanted to point out the Bulls are not the hopeless bunch you might think.

A healthier version of this Rose-less unit split the four games against the Heat in the regular season. As weve seen, Tom Thibodeau is one of the two or three best coaches in the league because his teams hustle, defend and win. It doesnt seem to matter who has the heart and mind to take a jersey. It doesnt seem to matter who has a vomit bucket like he was ordering bottle service. It doesnt seem to matter who the opponent is.

The Bulls elimination from the postseason comes this series, but I dont see them rolling over. They might lose some games big, but it wont be for a lack of effort, and their usual relentlessness might earn them a couple wins. That would be more than the Bulls managed with Rose in uniform. That might be more than Roses image can take right now.

Roses reputation is in a death spiral. The Bulls postseason advancement has exacerbated the disgust that many Bulls fans are voicing toward Rose. Makes you wonder if Rose would be better off rooting for a Heat sweep.

Amazing how quickly people forget RG3.

Terrible comparison. Just awful.

First of all, fuck you.

Second of all, the principle is the same: An athlete has to protect his own career and his own best interests, because he cannot count on his organization (or his teammates, or the media, or the fans) to do it for him. It's his livelihood if he gets re-injured.

If you worked in a factory, and your factory was trying to be the most productive factory in its industry, would you value that over your own health/paycheck? Would you potentially risk 10-20% of your lifetime earnings for the factory? Of course not.

Spot on. People expect athletes to act selflessly in the best interests of the team and not themselves. And yet they wouldn't (nor should they) do the same in their jobs. Moronic.

I love both of you but that is the most ridiculous thing I've ever read. Countless athletes have come back early (which isn't even the case here) from injury out of professional pride, and because they care about their teammates. And show me the factory worker who is making twenty million a year.

If an NBA player is making $20 million for himself, he's creating at least double that for his organization. He's no more beholden to an organization because of that, IMO.

If a guy comes back early out of professional pride, or for their teammates, that's great. I'm just saying it should be his decision and his decision alone.

Not sure why you feel the need to go on a personal attack, but whatever.

This situation is not even close to being worth an RGIII comparison. Less than one month after suffering an LCL spain, RGIII was NOT cleared for plays and in no way shape or form should have been out on the field. Sure, he had the heart to play and the will to give it a go. But I agree he was definitely risking his livelihood in going out there and attempting to play on a damaged knee.

Derrick Rose's knee is not currently damaged. It is fully healed. He went through full rehab, has done everything he used to do while playing at full strength, and has consistently been the best player in practice for the Bulls according to whoever is able to see and write about those practices.

How you compare a less than month old LCL sprain in a much more physical sport to a fully healed ACL injury that went through full rehab and then some I have no idea.

EDIT: Just to add, I never said D-Rose should play or sit. I am one of the biggest Bulls fans I know (4th season with season tickets) and would much rather have him come back when he feels he can contribute to the team than have him come back with doubt that he is making the team better as a whole. This has nothing to do with his injury to me because it is way beyond all of that.

 

[Gr00vus]

Curry undelivering.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Here is a good article on Lakers Kings game 6. A poorly officiated game no doubt but I agree with the author and Tim.

6 points is a lot in a basketball game. A 6 point favorite is going to win about 72-74% of the time, right? A 22% difference in win probability is not insignificant.

#### this game btw.

 

[the moops]

Looks like Jack got fouled on that drive

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Ugh - seems like Jack and Curry are fighting over the ball.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Curry undelivering.

He's being selfish.

 

[Moe.]

moar

 

[Wooderson]

SA pumps that music non stop. Went to concert and a basketball game broke out

 

[Gr00vus]

Curry undelivering.

He's being selfish.

Hero ball mentality striking again.

 

[Gr00vus]

SA pumps that music non stop. Went to concert and a basketball game broke out

When I own my NBA team there will be no music or stupid sound effects while play is going on (at our home games at least).

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Curry undelivering.

He's being selfish.

Hero ball mentality striking again.

He has 40 points and 9 assists on better than 50% shooting

Criticizing him for this game is absurd

 

[Eephus]

SA pumps that music non stop. Went to concert and a basketball game broke out

Where Ricky Martin happens

 

[Gr00vus]

Curry undelivering.

He's being selfish.

Hero ball mentality striking again.

He has 40 points and 9 assists on better than 50% shooting

Criticizing him for this game is absurd

He's been brutal down the stretch - forcing shots all over the place.

 

[Moe.]

Here is a good article on Lakers Kings game 6. A poorly officiated game no doubt but I agree with the author and Tim.

6 points is a lot in a basketball game. A 6 point favorite is going to win about 72-74% of the time, right? A 22% difference in win probability is not insignificant.

#### this game btw.

I think the bad officiating had an impact on the game but I don't think there was a top-down conspiracy or anything. If you wanted something done would **** Bavetta really be the guy you called?

 

[Good Posting Judge]

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/10/scott-sizemore-diagnosed-with-re-torn-acl-in-left-knee/

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-08-19/sports/os-football-repetitive-acl-injuries-0820-20120819_1_acl-injuries-acl-tears-anterior-cruciate-ligament

Most athletes who suffer ACL tears are more likely to suffer another one, according to Dr. James Andrews.

However, Andrews said there are several theories as to why more and more athletes are suffering multiple ACL injuries.

"One of the theories is that you come back too early and it's still recovering from the strength parameters in the one that was operated on and that puts a lot of stress on the uninjured one protecting the one that's been operated on," Andrews said.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Curry undelivering.

He's being selfish.

Hero ball mentality striking again.

He has 40 points and 9 assists on better than 50% shooting

Criticizing him for this game is absurd

He's been brutal down the stretch - forcing shots all over the place.

Jesus, tough critics

Sure Moses, you parted the Red Sea, but what have you done for me lately?

 

[Gr00vus]

Curry undelivering.

He's being selfish.

Hero ball mentality striking again.

He has 40 points and 9 assists on better than 50% shooting

Criticizing him for this game is absurd

He's been brutal down the stretch - forcing shots all over the place.

Jesus, tough critics

Sure Moses, you parted the Red Sea, but what have you done for me lately?

Hey, I like the guy and he was doing great through 3, doesn't mean we can't note when he's trying a bit too hard.

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Curry undelivering.

He's being selfish.

Hero ball mentality striking again.

He has 40 points and 9 assists on better than 50% shooting

Criticizing him for this game is absurd

He's been brutal down the stretch - forcing shots all over the place.

Jesus, tough critics

Sure Moses, you parted the Red Sea, but what have you done for me lately?

Hey, I like the guy and he wast doing great through 3, doesn't mean we can't note when he's trying a bit too hard.

You can't cherry pick one quarter IMO

Have to look at the whole body of work, especially when he's carrying a double-double

Sad to see Draymond go, love him

 

[Gr00vus]

Parker looking spry.

 

[the moops]

I want to strangle the ####### lady screaming

 

[Spin]

This lady screaming is the most annoying thing ever.

 

[Eephus]

I want to strangle the ####### lady screaming

 

[pollardsvision]

Wow. Love some Danny Green.

 

[Wooderson]

I want to strangle the ####### lady screaming

Ahhhhhh!!!!

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Here is a good article on Lakers Kings game 6. A poorly officiated game no doubt but I agree with the author and Tim.

6 points is a lot in a basketball game. A 6 point favorite is going to win about 72-74% of the time, right? A 22% difference in win probability is not insignificant.

#### this game btw.

I think the bad officiating had an impact on the game but I don't think there was a top-down conspiracy or anything. If you wanted something done would **** Bavetta really be the guy you called?

I assume you think Bavetta's not a likely candidate because he's had a long career. But if he's a fixer for Stern, wouldn't that also lead to a long career?

Similarly, we know that Donaghy's crooked: So does he make baseless claims because he needs to sell books, or does he make legitimate claims because he doesn't have anything to lose...and he needs to sell books?

 

[PlasmaDogPlasma]

What was Ginobli thinking?

 

[the moops]

What the hell was that Ginobli?

 

[5Rings]

I want to strangle the ####### lady screaming

Ahhhhhh!!!!

####in terrible. Put a pickle in it lady

 

[Spin]

Wow. Crazy fast break. Great pass by Curry

 

[Gr00vus]

BAZEMORE!

 

[Tremendous Upside]

Bazemore!

 

[EYLive]

F U Lady.

 

[Chaos Commish]

wow i'm exhausted