*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (2 Viewers)

[GoBirds]

Fair comment?

Kevin Van Valkenburg ‏@KVanValkenburg

Love Kobe, greatest respect for MJ, but really enjoy that LeBron is proof you don't have to belittle & bully your teammates to win a title.

Definitely fair. MJ and Kobe are #######s. LeBron's got a monster ego, but he's always struck me as a solid dude.

Jordan and Bryant won with the teams they started with. James didn't. It's a vapid statement that's easy bait.

Kobe was drafted by Charlotte.

 

[gump]

Has there been a similar performance in 2 clinching games....scoring from the inside for the most of one, then from the outside most of the next?

I'm guessing MJ did something similar, once he developed his post game? Dirk? Kobe?

 

[Daywalker]

Has there been a similar performance in 2 clinching games....scoring from the inside for the most of one, then from the outside most of the next?

I'm guessing MJ did something similar, once he developed his post game? Dirk? Kobe?

Perhaps not. But I've also never seen a defense lag off MJ or Kobe daring them to shoot jumpers.

 

[Abraham]

Wonder if the Spurs could be Iguodala players.

Why? Their small forwards was one of the breakout players of the postseason. I don't understand the "poor Duncan, that was his last chance" stuff. Manu is spent but Duncan was a beast this year abd was the one guy on their team that never looked tired. Parker is only 30. Hill and Leonard and splitter haven't reached their full potential. Of course they may never make it back to the finals but they were the best team in the west the last two seasons and they only have 41 million on the books, which means they have 17 million in cap space.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Pop doesnt allow Spo to beat him in the 2nd half here. There is just no way. Duncan and Parker rested up... ready for the war. Spurs win this by about 7.

There is just no way.

 

[Daywalker]

Wonder if the Spurs could be Iguodala players.

Why? Their small forwards was one of the breakout players of the postseason. I don't understand the "poor Duncan, that was his last chance" stuff. Manu is spent but Duncan was a beast this year abd was the one guy on their team that never looked tired. Parker is only 30. Hill and Leonard and splitter haven't reached their full potential. Of course they may never make it back to the finals but they were the best team in the west the last two seasons and they only have 41 million on the books, which means they have 17 million in cap space.

His defense, versatility and another ball-handler besides Parker. He seems like a viable get and not a bad way to spend your cap space looking at the alternatives.

 

[Vykng]

Wonder if the Spurs could be Iguodala players.

Why? Their small forwards was one of the breakout players of the postseason. I don't understand the "poor Duncan, that was his last chance" stuff. Manu is spent but Duncan was a beast this year abd was the one guy on their team that never looked tired. Parker is only 30. Hill and Leonard and splitter haven't reached their full potential. Of course they may never make it back to the finals but they were the best team in the west the last two seasons and they only have 41 million on the books, which means they have 17 million in cap space.

This team would be winning championships if this Heat team didn't exist.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Love that the refs will make sure the Spurs atleast cover this game...

Made sure.

 

[sho nuff]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

 

[TobiasFunke]

Never too early:

RJ Bell ‏@RJinVegas

2013-14 Title Odds:

Mia 3/1

OKC 7/1

SA 10/1

Chic 11/1

Ind 16/1

LAC 20/1

Hou 22/1

Grizz 25/1

NYK 30/1

LAL, Den, GS 35/1

I wish there was a way to fade this. Are there lottery odds somewhere?

 

[Abraham]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

 

[Abraham]

Never too early:

RJ Bell ‏@RJinVegas

2013-14 Title Odds:

Mia 3/1

OKC 7/1

SA 10/1

Chic 11/1

Ind 16/1

LAC 20/1

Hou 22/1

Grizz 25/1

NYK 30/1

LAL, Den, GS 35/1

I wish there was a way to fade this. Are there lottery odds somewhere?

Western Conference odds? Having to assume the Thunder are the favorites which is a little bizarre. Outside of the Westbrook injury, their third leading scorer is a UFA as is the defensive-stopper-energy role player they acquired mid-season. More importantly, they don't have an offense and everyone seems to know it. They'll be excellent of course but I don't think they win the west without something significant happening to that roster.

 

[thecatch]

Wonder if the Spurs could be Iguodala players.

Why? Their small forwards was one of the breakout players of the postseason. I don't understand the "poor Duncan, that was his last chance" stuff. Manu is spent but Duncan was a beast this year abd was the one guy on their team that never looked tired. Parker is only 30. Hill and Leonard and splitter haven't reached their full potential. Of course they may never make it back to the finals but they were the best team in the west the last two seasons and they only have 41 million on the books, which means they have 17 million in cap space.

Tyreke Evans would make an interesting Manu replacement (also has handles and an elite ability to get to the rim), might come cheaper than Iggy, and is just entering his prime. I'd love to see what Pop would do with him.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

Fun series.

 

[rodg12]

I hope all the LeBron haters are watching him get interviewed at the ESPN desk. It's the most endearing I've ever seen him: humble, thoughtful, and thankful. I can see why teammates would like playing with him.

For sure. He kind of had that "#### the haters, what do you think of me now?" pose right after he was presented the MVP trophy, but given the criticism he has endured, it is somewhat understandable. But yeah, he was very humble in that interview with Magic, Rose and Simmons just now.

Totally relaxed and candid, too. Almost as if there weren't cameras there. I've never seen him like that.

Good call on the cameras weren't there thing. A few paraphrased highlights:"When I hear people mention my name with Michael or Kareem, I'm just a kid from Akron, Ohio... Statistically, I shouldn't even be here. But I was given a gift, a lot of talent."

"I watched Magic play a lot... I get more of a kick from watching my teammate score off my pass than scoring myself."

"Every team needs some luck to win a championship. We got some luck in game 6."

He also talked through his video and stat review prep before Game 4 - same stuff from his presser.

Anybody know if this interview is available on the web anywhere? I went to bed right after the game due to an early work meeting. Lame, I know.

 

[shader]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

 

[Raider Nation]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

 

[got_nugs]

Battier just hit another 3.

Green still isn't open.

Not much sleep last night....man this feels good. Except seeing Duncan, that part sucks. Love that dude.

 

[Abraham]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

Would you agree that the game is five things: Shooting, Passing, Rebounding, On Ball Defense, Off Ball Defense. Everything else like "moving without the ball" or "setting screens!" is less quantifiable and fluid. So Jordan is better at 3 of 5 things? Hardly seems overwhelming.

 

[got_nugs]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

Birdman has more rings than Barkley.

 

[Jayrod]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

Would you agree that the game is five things: Shooting, Passing, Rebounding, On Ball Defense, Off Ball Defense. Everything else like "moving without the ball" or "setting screens!" is less quantifiable and fluid. So Jordan is better at 3 of 5 things? Hardly seems overwhelming.

LeBron is a better off ball defender.

 

[dickey moe]

NBA players have the cutest kids!

NBA commishes say the craziest things!

 

[Abraham]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

Birdman has more rings than Barkley.

And more ugly neck tattoos, so I'd say they are even.

 

[Hang 10]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

Barkley is all over the map. Didn't he say last year that Lebron had a chance of being as good or better than MJ? So after he wins another MVP and another title, suddenly he thinks less of him?

 

[Buck Bradcanon]

I don't know how the Spurs sleep after all this.

In their mansions with their 4 rings under the pillows IMO.

 

[Hang 10]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/8461397/charles-barkley-thinks-lebron-james-better-michael-jordan

Barkley: LeBron better than Jordan?

NEW YORK -- Charles Barkley thinks LeBron James can be better than Michael Jordan.

Jordan is considered by many the best player in NBA history, but Barkley believes his teammate with the Dream Team can be surpassed by James.

Charles Barkley says LeBron James could end up being better than Michael Jordan. How do you rate LeBron's chances?

Cast your vote!

"I do think he can be better than Michael," Barkley said. "I thought I would never compare somebody to Michael Jordan. But this guy, LeBron James, he does everything well. Michael did everything well. LeBron James is just bigger, stronger, faster. That's the only difference."

 

[hxperson]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3".

I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Where is mop?

My Link

 

[Abraham]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3".

I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

 

[Daywalker]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

Would you agree that the game is five things: Shooting, Passing, Rebounding, On Ball Defense, Off Ball Defense. Everything else like "moving without the ball" or "setting screens!" is less quantifiable and fluid. So Jordan is better at 3 of 5 things? Hardly seems overwhelming.

Shooting a pretty big deal. Will be bigger when Lebron loses a step.

 

[Ramsay Hunt Experience]

Barkley is on with Dan Patrick right now. Says LeBron is in his all-time Top 10 but nothing he does will ever get him into the Top 5 (MJ, Wilt, Kareem, Oscar, Russell).

Also said all LeBron does better than Jordan is pass and rebound, but Michael is a more "complete" player. Huh?

Would you agree that the game is five things: Shooting, Passing, Rebounding, On Ball Defense, Off Ball Defense. Everything else like "moving without the ball" or "setting screens!" is less quantifiable and fluid. So Jordan is better at 3 of 5 things? Hardly seems overwhelming.

I think that's a pretty reductive way to look at it. I don't even know what it means to be a better shooter. If I were to design some type of drill where players had to hit tough, contested shots, I'm pretty sure Kobe Bryant would be the best at it. But I don't think he's a better shooter than LeBron because shot selection has to be an aspect of the shooting skill set.

And in fact, I don't think any of the offensive skill sets are really able to be separated. The Spurs sagged off of LeBron because he's the best triple threat player the league has seen from the traditional triple threat position. If they come out hard, he'll drive by them. If they double and cheat to protect the rim, he'll find the open man for the easy corner three. If they sag off, he's an efficient midrange shooter. And of course, most importantly, he has the high basketball IQ to make the correct decision in that situation.

 

[hxperson]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3".

I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

Bosh is a Hall of Famer if he retires today.

 

[Abraham]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3". I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

I'm not disagreeing with what your eyes told you. I'm just saying that his entire body of work makes him a hall of famer. 20/10 for almost a decade? Those guys are few and far between.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3".

I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3".

I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

Related ... I've never met Cliff, but I'm like 90% sure that this is him. if it's not, don't tell me. Just let me enjoy it.

 

[Brony]

Neat! If the best players collude to be on the same NBA team, they win championships.

 

[thecatch]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3". I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

I'm not disagreeing with what your eyes told you. I'm just saying that his entire body of work makes him a hall of famer. 20/10 for almost a decade? Those guys are few and far between.

There are much better PFs that arent in the hall, IMO. If bosh does it will be on the basis of riding Lebron's coattails. Which is fine - I'm not one to get sanctimonious about the Bball HOF, but I certainly understand the gut reaction to the claim bosh is a HOFer.

 

[Slapdash]

Battier just hit another 3.

Green still isn't open.

Not much sleep last night....man this feels good. Except seeing Duncan, that part sucks. Love that dude.

Felt so bad for him, he seemed really broken up.

 

[rodg12]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3".

I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

Related ... I've never met Cliff, but I'm like 90% sure that this is him. if it's not, don't tell me. Just let me enjoy it.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

There are much better PFs that arent in the hall, IMO. If bosh does it will be on the basis of riding Lebron's coattails. Which is fine - I'm not one to get sanctimonious about the Bball HOF, but I certainly understand the gut reaction to the claim bosh is a HOFer.

His resume is pretty tough to argue. I wouldn't put him in the Hall but he'll probably get in. He compiled decent numbers on a bad team for a long time then went to play 3rd banana with a couple all-time greats. He has been a pretty big disappointment in a lot of series/games with the Heat.

 

[matuski]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

 

[Dentist]

I'm torn today.

Ultimately I'm not surprised at what happened last night. S.A. lost the series when Ray Allen hit that trey in game 6.

I'm as gutted as I can be for a multi-millionaire with 4 titles as I can be for Tim Duncan. (p.s. - not gutted that much).

But, for the LeBron legacy and taking over Jordan historically, which I really want to see happen, this had to happen.

2 down... i'd say LeBron needs 5 titles to be considered GOAT.. he'll have all the numbers and MVP's to surpass his airness.

 

[sporthenry]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

Jump shooting

 

[Slapdash]

Scary thing about Lebron is that he is going to get better.

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Lebron tied for most points in a finals game 7.

Imagine what he could have done if he wasn't so scared of taking big shots.

Bet he would have scored 59 if he smiled at more appropriate times.

 

[matuski]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

Wide open jump shots?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Awesome series, great game.

Credit Lebron for overcoming a weakness and making it a strength in a game 7. Impressive.

What weakness was that?

Wide open jump shots?

When was that a weakness? Like four years ago?

 

[Abraham]

Bosh has a lotta balls sitting in on this photo. He should be finding a hole to crawl into.

Because his play didn't help them to a title?

Hmm...I must have not seen who it was that was blocking shots in game 6 down the stretch (among other things he did).

I'm actually starting to see Bosh as a sympathetic figure after disliking him for such a long time. Rightly or wrongly he has been getting a disproportianate share of crap this year. People talking about trading him because he had rebound troubles against Indiana, people talking about trading him for being a 17' jump shooting power forward with mediocre interior Defense. Last night was not a good game for him and I'm sure the "he's gravy training his way to titles!" talk will begin in earnest.

But truthfully, I'd LOVE the guy to be on the Rockets. He'd be perfect for their offense - a quick-footed four who can shoot from away from the basket ? Yes, please.

To the current context he should be what's celebrated about team sports. He was basically 22/10 on a bad team and had the sense to realize that maybe he isn't best suited as the alpha dog trying to drag a team to a second round exit every year. Instead he found some friends to play with and took on the role of being the third wheel when it had to be absolutely obvious to him that he was NEVER going to be seen on par with Wade or James when all this was over. He may say things like "I know I'm a hall of famer" or other egotistical things, but 100 out of 100 Heat fans would ship him off LOOOOONNNNNGGG before they considered moving one of the other two. His legacy will be that he was a third banana role player and his HOF credentials will be debated off of that, not off of being a 10 or 12 time All Star who averaged 20/10+ for over a decade....

He has no HOF credentials. It'll never even come up for discussion.

I see Bosh in the Al Jefferson/Al Horford tier of players. Not HOFer but still a star player that, imo, absolutely deserves to be thought of as part of any "big 3". I believe there are tons of teams that would trip over themselves to get him if he were available. I think he'd be a great fit in Chicago beside Noah and running the pick and roll with Rose.

You guys are nuts. He would be in the HOF discussion if he never played another game. He's an 8 time All Star, career 19/9, two rings, and a gold medal. There is NO ONE out there with similar credentials who isn't in the HOF. Artis Gilmore is close as he was an 11 time all star (half in the ABA) and averaged 19/12. But he only won one ABA title, none in the NBA, and zero Olympic hardware.

I'm not sayin ghe's a bad player, but I just don't see the HOFer thing. If he was putting up better numbers in Miami, maybe. But I might be the biggest Raptors fan on this board and never had I ever thought he was anything close to a HOFer when he was with our team. Just never dominated often enough and was clearly outclassed by the Dirk's, Duncan's, and KG's of the NBA. Heck even guys like Al Jeff or Boozer made him look bad at times.

I'm not disagreeing with what your eyes told you. I'm just saying that his entire body of work makes him a hall of famer. 20/10 for almost a decade? Those guys are few and far between.

There are much better PFs that arent in the hall, IMO. If bosh does it will be on the basis of riding Lebron's coattails. Which is fine - I'm not one to get sanctimonious about the Bball HOF, but I certainly understand the gut reaction to the claim bosh is a HOFer.

Name 3, and please give quantifiable data. Our starting point is 8 all star games, Olympic gold, two rings (although I first made my point when he only had one ring) and 19/9 career.