*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (5 Viewers)

[Craig_MiamiFL]

Victor Oladipo hit a game-winning jumper in Orlando's 90-89 win over the Sixers, scoring 24 points with three rebounds, six assists, three steals, three 3-pointers and five turnovers in 36 minutes.
It was a step-back J for Oladipo and he buried it right in fellow rookie Michael Carter-Williams' face. Oladipo is having no issues in scoring the ball at Summer League, so it should be interesting how this will all translate once preseason comes around. He's shaping up to be a very intriguing fantasy prospect for his first season.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Kirilenko's wife gives him one free pass per year.

 

[Premier]

Victor Oladipo hit a game-winning jumper in Orlando's 90-89 win over the Sixers, scoring 24 points with three rebounds, six assists, three steals, three 3-pointers and five turnovers in 36 minutes.

It was a step-back J for Oladipo and he buried it right in fellow rookie Michael Carter-Williams' face. Oladipo is having no issues in scoring the ball at Summer League, so it should be interesting how this will all translate once preseason comes around. He's shaping up to be a very intriguing fantasy prospect for his first season.

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line. #gunZ #stupidity #weed

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Victor Oladipo hit a game-winning jumper in Orlando's 90-89 win over the Sixers, scoring 24 points with three rebounds, six assists, three steals, three 3-pointers and five turnovers in 36 minutes.

It was a step-back J for Oladipo and he buried it right in fellow rookie Michael Carter-Williams' face. Oladipo is having no issues in scoring the ball at Summer League, so it should be interesting how this will all translate once preseason comes around. He's shaping up to be a very intriguing fantasy prospect for his first season.

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.#gunZ #stupidity #weed

Still a ways to go before he's in the same conversation as Nick Young.

 

[tommyGunZ]

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.

If he can play some credible PG minutes in the show and get to the line regularly from either guard spot, he's going to win ROY.

Well, he doesn't get Carter-Williams every night, and he won't get any run at the point if his assist/TO ratio remains ~ 1:1.

That being said, love the confidence of taking that shot. WIth his phenomenal upper body strength he should be able to get that step back jumper at will if he creates the contact right before the step back.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Victor Oladipo hit a game-winning jumper in Orlando's 90-89 win over the Sixers, scoring 24 points with three rebounds, six assists, three steals, three 3-pointers and five turnovers in 36 minutes.

It was a step-back J for Oladipo and he buried it right in fellow rookie Michael Carter-Williams' face. Oladipo is having no issues in scoring the ball at Summer League, so it should be interesting how this will all translate once preseason comes around. He's shaping up to be a very intriguing fantasy prospect for his first season.

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.#gunZ #stupidity #weed

Still a ways to go before he's in the same conversation as Nick Young.

I think the Lakers signed Young just so y'all m0f0s can see what REAL greed in a purple and gold uni looks like.

 

[Gr00vus]

Victor Oladipo hit a game-winning jumper in Orlando's 90-89 win over the Sixers, scoring 24 points with three rebounds, six assists, three steals, three 3-pointers and five turnovers in 36 minutes.

It was a step-back J for Oladipo and he buried it right in fellow rookie Michael Carter-Williams' face. Oladipo is having no issues in scoring the ball at Summer League, so it should be interesting how this will all translate once preseason comes around. He's shaping up to be a very intriguing fantasy prospect for his first season.

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.#gunZ #stupidity #weed

Still a ways to go before he's in the same conversation as Nick Young.

I think the Lakers signed Young just so y'all m0f0s can see what REAL greed in a purple and gold uni looks like.

The Lakers don't do things small. This season is going to be one heck of a dumpster fire.

 

[Premier]

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.

If he can play some credible PG minutes in the show and get to the line regularly from either guard spot, he's going to win ROY.

We'll see if this summer league PG experiment actually pays off. It was an interesting idea.

 

[Gr00vus]

The Lakers don't do things small. This season is going to be one heck of a dumpster fire.

Metta officially hits the bricks:

Lakers Waive Metta World Peace Under Amnesty Provision

July 11, 2013 4:44 pm PDT EL SEGUNDO -

The Los Angeles Lakers have waived forward Metta World Peace and have designated him as the team’s amnesty player as allowed by the Collective Bargaining Agreement, it was announced by General Manager Mitch Kupchak. “It’s tough to say goodbye to a player such as Metta, who has been a significant part of our team the past four seasons. For anyone who’s had the opportunity to get to know him, it’s impossible not to love him,” said Kupchak. “He has made many contributions to this organization, both in his community work as well as in our games; perhaps no more so than in his clutch play in Game 7 of the 2010 NBA Finals in helping to lead us over the Celtics in one of the greatest playoff wins in Lakers history. We thank Metta for all his contributions and wish him the best of luck in the future.”

A 14-year NBA veteran, World Peace averaged 12.4 points and 5.0 rebounds in 75 games last season. Prior to joining the Lakers in 2009, he played with the Rockets, Kings, Pacers and Bulls, averaging 14.1 points, 4.7 rebounds and 1.8 steals over the course of his career. World Peace, then known as Ron Artest, was named to the 1999-00 All-Rookie Second Team. He was the NBA Defensive Player of the Year in 2004, and also was named to the NBA All-Star Team that season, as well as to the All-NBA Third Team. He was named to the NBA All-Defensive First Team in both 2004 and 2006, and to the NBA All-Defensive Second Team in 2003 and 2009. For his off the court accomplishments, he was voted the J. Walter Kennedy Citizenship Award winner in 2011.

 

[Abraham]

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.

If he can play some credible PG minutes in the show and get to the line regularly from either guard spot, he's going to win ROY.

We'll see if this summer league PG experiment actually pays off. It was an interesting idea.

Serious question - some of the best teams in the league don't have a true point running things. Miami. Indiana, Houston. Does Orlando have the Personel to get away with not Habing a true ball handler? Does it for the offense?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

At this point why would the Lakers pay Kobe more then what he could get out on the open market? He's going to take a huge paycut. Not sure what the max is in his case but I'd imagine around 15-17mill/year.

The problem with Kobe is that he's probably still going to be an elite player and he's only overpaid in the context of the salary cap. We know you can win the title with Kobe as the best player on your team, even an older Kobe - his conditioning is top notch and his focus hasn't wavered. So how do you attract top free agents to a team where they aren't the alpha dog and the alpha dog has no interest on sharing leadership duties? I think they resign gasol and acquire someone like Rudy gay or granger or another player that can be looked at as a veteran capable of getting along with Kobe.Love the young signing too.

Lakers would rather let Kobe walk then pay him 30mill in year 19 clogging up their salary cap. They'd win that PR battle easily.

Disagree. You know Cuban would give him a big contract to pair with Dirk for a couple years. He'd go to a contender (Clippers, Bulls) and end up going further in the playoffs then the Lakers and he'd win the PR battle. I don't see them letting him walk.

Kobe doesn't have many better options if he want to make 15-17mill a season. Certainly not the Clippers nor Bulls.

Bulls could pay him $12 million-ish if they amnesty Boozer and let Deng walk. There is a remote chance of that happening, IMO.

Kobe will only play for the bulls if Deng is on the team.

 

[Gr00vus]

Metta World Peace: I'm going to play for Yao Mings team in china! I can't wait to arrive in Shanghai !! Twitter @MettaWorldPeace

 

[Premier]

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.

If he can play some credible PG minutes in the show and get to the line regularly from either guard spot, he's going to win ROY.

We'll see if this summer league PG experiment actually pays off. It was an interesting idea.

Serious question - some of the best teams in the league don't have a true point running things. Miami. Indiana, Houston. Does Orlando have the Personel to get away with not Habing a true ball handler? Does it for the offense?

Jameer will be the starting PG this year. They are running VO there in the summer to help improve his handle.

I'm hoping they aren't good enough for anything this year other than to fall into a top-3 pick. I think they're going to fall into the 8-10 lottery range though.

 

[scoobus]

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.

If he can play some credible PG minutes in the show and get to the line regularly from either guard spot, he's going to win ROY.

We'll see if this summer league PG experiment actually pays off. It was an interesting idea.

Serious question - some of the best teams in the league don't have a true point running things. Miami. Indiana, Houston. Does Orlando have the Personel to get away with not Habing a true ball handler? Does it for the offense?

Houston?

Anyways, I like what the Magic are doing with Oladipo. I don't see him playing much PG next year if any at all, but it's good to get him seeing the game differently and looking for openings at the 2. It's never bad to have an extra facilitator/creator out on the court at the same time as the primary ballhandler.

 

[Juxtatarot]

At this point why would the Lakers pay Kobe more then what he could get out on the open market? He's going to take a huge paycut. Not sure what the max is in his case but I'd imagine around 15-17mill/year.

The problem with Kobe is that he's probably still going to be an elite player and he's only overpaid in the context of the salary cap. We know you can win the title with Kobe as the best player on your team, even an older Kobe - his conditioning is top notch and his focus hasn't wavered. So how do you attract top free agents to a team where they aren't the alpha dog and the alpha dog has no interest on sharing leadership duties? I think they resign gasol and acquire someone like Rudy gay or granger or another player that can be looked at as a veteran capable of getting along with Kobe.Love the young signing too.

Lakers would rather let Kobe walk then pay him 30mill in year 19 clogging up their salary cap. They'd win that PR battle easily.

Disagree. You know Cuban would give him a big contract to pair with Dirk for a couple years. He'd go to a contender (Clippers, Bulls) and end up going further in the playoffs then the Lakers and he'd win the PR battle. I don't see them letting him walk.

Kobe doesn't have many better options if he want to make 15-17mill a season. Certainly not the Clippers nor Bulls.

Bulls could pay him $12 million-ish if they amnesty Boozer and let Deng walk. There is a remote chance of that happening, IMO.

Kobe will only play for the bulls if Deng is on the team.

2007 reference, right?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Ak47 to niets?

 

[thecatch]

Summer league perennially makes penetrating guards look amazing because of the lack of coordinated help defense. As a summer league junkie, the most I hope to get out of watching the guards play is to see whether they can consistently knock down threes, and whether they are competent ball handlers and athletes. (I do think you can get a decent idea of whether bigs are going to be any good or not).

 

[ShaHBucks]

Gunz > Olodipo currently has 16 points on 3/5 shooting from the floor. 8/10 from the line. #whackoff

7-25 from the field coming into today, and now 3-6 today.

Against DLeaguers.

Should the Jazz cut Burke?

Nah. Burke has a decent mid range jumper. It's Oladipo's jumper that we see differently.

Is 22 points on 7 shots good?

Lakers fans prefer that on 26 shots or so.

Lmaooo

 

[Grady Wilson]

Another off season of no big signings for the Mavs. I'm on the fence in terms of them not offering Bynum. I understand it's a huge gamble and the medical staff had no desire for the Mavs to take him, but part of me wished they would have taken the chance. I don't know... just very frustrating to see how far this team has fallen so quickly in basically two years.

 

[ShaHBucks]

24 pts on 16 shots. Love how he gets to the line.

If he can play some credible PG minutes in the show and get to the line regularly from either guard spot, he's going to win ROY.

We'll see if this summer league PG experiment actually pays off. It was an interesting idea.

Serious question - some of the best teams in the league don't have a true point running things. Miami. Indiana, Houston. Does Orlando have the Personel to get away with not Habing a true ball handler? Does it for the offense?

Houston?

Anyways, I like what the Magic are doing with Oladipo. I don't see him playing much PG next year if any at all, but it's good to get him seeing the game differently and looking for openings at the 2. It's never bad to have an extra facilitator/creator out on the court at the same time as the primary ballhandler.

Spurs did the same with Kahwi last summer.

Phil did it with MJ for a season. I think it helps being able to diagnose the game from different positions.

 

[Instinctive]

Another off season of no big signings for the Mavs. I'm on the fence in terms of them not offering Bynum. I understand it's a huge gamble and the medical staff had no desire for the Mavs to take him, but part of me wished they would have taken the chance. I don't know... just very frustrating to see how far this team has fallen so quickly in basically two years.

Agreed. I still think we'd be worse off if we had tried to keep the 2011 team together...but good grief.

 

[Kev4029]

Just want everybody to remember how awesome this was.

 

[biggamer3]

Holy crap, AK47 to the Nyets!!!

I have never looked forward to an NBA season as much as I will be for this year. Nets could compete for the #1 even, and I am not just saying this as a homer. Their bench is probably good enough to win more games than a handful of teams. Plumlee/Blatche/Ak47/Terry/Livingston is really solid.

 

[Premier]

Just want everybody to remember how awesome this was.

"After taking his glasses off, Gunz then posted to FBG about how great Dwight Howard is"

 

[Good Posting Judge]

So how is Proky getting money to AK-47 under the table?

 

[Abraham]

So how is Proky getting money to AK-47 under the table?

Mailing it to them? Wire transfer? Does the nba really have any oversight of Russian banking?

 

[thecatch]

So how is Proky getting money to AK-47 under the table?

You guys are assuming Proky used positive incentives rather than negative ones.

 

[Man of Zen]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

 

[Abraham]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

That's a LOT of money for a decent-but-not-great player.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Is it certain the Hawks won't match?

 

[gruecd]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

The problem with the Bucks (and Bill Simmons alluded to this on a recent podcast) is that their owner, Senator Kohl, is insistent that the team try to make the playoffs. They're never going to attract a top-tier free agent without grossly overpaying, so their best bet would be to tank for a year or two and try to get lucky via the lottery. Unfortunately, the Senator will never let that happen, so they're stuck in 40-win limbo.

 

[Juxtatarot]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

The problem with the Bucks (and Bill Simmons alluded to this on a recent podcast) is that their owner, Senator Kohl, is insistent that the team try to make the playoffs. They're never going to attract a top-tier free agent without grossly overpaying, so their best bet would be to tank for a year or two and try to get lucky via the lottery. Unfortunately, the Senator will never let that happen, so they're stuck in 40-win limbo.

It could be worse. He could have sold the franchise to Michael Jordan.

 

[gruecd]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

The problem with the Bucks (and Bill Simmons alluded to this on a recent podcast) is that their owner, Senator Kohl, is insistent that the team try to make the playoffs. They're never going to attract a top-tier free agent without grossly overpaying, so their best bet would be to tank for a year or two and try to get lucky via the lottery. Unfortunately, the Senator will never let that happen, so they're stuck in 40-win limbo.

It could be worse. He could have sold the franchise to Michael Jordan.

Good point.

 

[Man of Zen]

Is it certain the Hawks won't match?

Here's a link to some completely non-authoritative sounding blog where Teague apparently has been in contact with Ferry, and told him not to match. TIFWIW.

http://fansided.com/2013/07/12/jeff-teague-tells-atlanta-hawks-to-not-match-milwaukee-bucks-offer-sheet/

And I guess they did sign their first-round German point guard. I can see ATL moving on instead of dealing with a vocal and unhappy PG who isn't all that important an asset anyway.

 

[Abraham]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

The problem with the Bucks (and Bill Simmons alluded to this on a recent podcast) is that their owner, Senator Kohl, is insistent that the team try to make the playoffs. They're never going to attract a top-tier free agent without grossly overpaying, so their best bet would be to tank for a year or two and try to get lucky via the lottery. Unfortunately, the Senator will never let that happen, so they're stuck in 40-win limbo.

This hits on something interesting. Having a top-3 pick (much less top-1) isn't the path to success many people envision. Looking back to 2000...

2010 - Wall, Turner, Favors.

2009 - Griffin, Thabeet, Harden

2008 - Rose, Beasley, Mayo

2007 - Oden, Durant, Horford

2006 - Bargiani, Aldridge, Morrison

2005 - Bogut, Marvin, Derron, Paul

2004 - Howard, Okafor, Gordon

2003 - Lebron, Darko, Anthony, Chris Bosh, Wade

2002 - Yao, Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr.

2001 - Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol

2000 - Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles

2005 and 2003 were thought of as being "loaded" drafts so I included more than three players from those. But of the 35 players listed here, there are four that are arguably top-10 NBA players (Harden, Paul, James, Rose) and five more that come in to the next ten and/or have been top-10 players at some point in their careers (Griffin, Gasol, Yao, Wade, Howard). So with a top 3 pick you have about a 25% chance of getting a top-10 player through the top part of lottery. Even if you add in Kyrie from 2011 and Davis from 2012 you still don't have a great shot at getting an upper echelon player.

This year's draft is loaded and features 6 or 7 guys that could conceivably be all stars (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, and Gordon all have superstar potential IMO). So that would be the third strong draft in 14 years. Oof.

My long-winded point is that winning the lottery is a hope bad teams cling to but barring the rarest of circumstances, a top-3 pick doesn't often change the long-term direction of the team.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Having extra games at home due to making the playoffs makes a lot of extra money for the city and vendors, and I am sure the team as well. I think tanking is a mistake for most owners, as they should try to be competitive every year.

 

[Abraham]

Having extra games at home due to making the playoffs makes a lot of extra money for the city and vendors, and I am sure the team as well. I think tanking is a mistake for most owners, as they should try to be competitive every year.

Tend to agree. A .500 NBA team is a lot more enjoyable to watch than a .500 MLB or NFL team IMO. The 8 seed maybe doesn't win the title...but neither do 14 other playoff teams. The playoffs are fun - watching the Rockets finally in the playoffs was a lot more fun then sitting around hoping they would get a high pick.

 

[Man of Zen]

But of the 35 players listed here, there are four that are arguably top-10 NBA players (Harden, Paul, James, Rose)

So 4 top tenners out of the last 35 high-first-rounders, and then the other six out of the remaining...let's see...56 (on average?) more picks in the drafts, times 11 seasons, plus old guys finally breaking through to the top ten later on, plus the occasional undrafted FA who eventually becomes a top 10 guy...equals what...6 top tenners out of 1,000?

The math is a little fuzzy there, but comparatively, it looks like winning the lotto is by far the better bet.

 

[Man of Zen]

ETA: I see what you're saying, but I don't think it has so much to do with the lottery not being where you need to go to land a whale. It's a lot more about how moribund your franchise probably is, and how unconcerned with doing what's necessary to build a champion, if you're bad enough to be in the lottery in the first place. The game-changing players generally end up on good franchises, whether through the draft or through natural player movement later.

I don't think it's about how unlikely those players are to come from the top of the draft, so much as that.

 

[Abraham]

ETA: I see what you're saying, but I don't think it has so much to do with the lottery not being where you need to go to land a whale. It's a lot more about how moribund your franchise probably is, and how unconcerned with doing what's necessary to build a champion, if you're bad enough to be in the lottery in the first place. The game-changing players generally end up on good franchises, whether through the draft or through natural player movement later.

I don't think it's about how unlikely those players are to come from the top of the draft, so much as that.

That is the bigger thing - players moving to more desirable locations when they hit free agency. I think the new CBA will help with that as the incumbent teams can offer a lot more money to guys in their prime. But let's say Philly wins the lottery next year and gets Wiggins. They will probably get his first 7 years pretty easily...but if he looks up like Lebron and they haven't contended, he'll head to LAL or Brooklyn or somewhere else. Granted, 7 years should be enough time to put a contender around a star, but still.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

The problem with the Bucks (and Bill Simmons alluded to this on a recent podcast) is that their owner, Senator Kohl, is insistent that the team try to make the playoffs. They're never going to attract a top-tier free agent without grossly overpaying, so their best bet would be to tank for a year or two and try to get lucky via the lottery. Unfortunately, the Senator will never let that happen, so they're stuck in 40-win limbo.

This hits on something interesting. Having a top-3 pick (much less top-1) isn't the path to success many people envision. Looking back to 2000...

2010 - Wall, Turner, Favors.

2009 - Griffin, Thabeet, Harden

2008 - Rose, Beasley, Mayo

2007 - Oden, Durant, Horford

2006 - Bargiani, Aldridge, Morrison

2005 - Bogut, Marvin, Derron, Paul

2004 - Howard, Okafor, Gordon

2003 - Lebron, Darko, Anthony, Chris Bosh, Wade

2002 - Yao, Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr.

2001 - Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol

2000 - Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles

2005 and 2003 were thought of as being "loaded" drafts so I included more than three players from those. But of the 35 players listed here, there are four that are arguably top-10 NBA players (Harden, Paul, James, Rose) and five more that come in to the next ten and/or have been top-10 players at some point in their careers (Griffin, Gasol, Yao, Wade, Howard). So with a top 3 pick you have about a 25% chance of getting a top-10 player through the top part of lottery. Even if you add in Kyrie from 2011 and Davis from 2012 you still don't have a great shot at getting an upper echelon player.

This year's draft is loaded and features 6 or 7 guys that could conceivably be all stars (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, and Gordon all have superstar potential IMO). So that would be the third strong draft in 14 years. Oof.

My long-winded point is that winning the lottery is a hope bad teams cling to but barring the rarest of circumstances, a top-3 pick doesn't often change the long-term direction of the team.

Yes, hitting a top pick is a long shot, but not nearly as big of long shot as Milwaukee signing a top tier free agent. Even Milwaukee trading for one is a bigger long shot since players basically demand to get traded to certain teams nowadays and the Bucks ain't one of those teams.

From a business perspective, yes, being an 8 seed every year is better for the bottom line and if that is all an owner cares about, so be it.

 

[Eephus]

Only in the Summer League do two new teams take the floor for another game immediately after the Championship Game is completed.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Only in the Summer League do two new teams take the floor for another game immediately after the Championship Game is completed.

Are they playing in high school gyms?

 

[pollardsvision]

Jeff Teague signs offer for 4 yrs/32m with MIL Bucks.

Goodbye Jennings, I guess.

Oh my... the Bucks may have taken the crown as the worst run team in the league.

The problem with the Bucks (and Bill Simmons alluded to this on a recent podcast) is that their owner, Senator Kohl, is insistent that the team try to make the playoffs. They're never going to attract a top-tier free agent without grossly overpaying, so their best bet would be to tank for a year or two and try to get lucky via the lottery. Unfortunately, the Senator will never let that happen, so they're stuck in 40-win limbo.

This hits on something interesting. Having a top-3 pick (much less top-1) isn't the path to success many people envision. Looking back to 2000...

2010 - Wall, Turner, Favors.

2009 - Griffin, Thabeet, Harden

2008 - Rose, Beasley, Mayo

2007 - Oden, Durant, Horford

2006 - Bargiani, Aldridge, Morrison

2005 - Bogut, Marvin, Derron, Paul

2004 - Howard, Okafor, Gordon

2003 - Lebron, Darko, Anthony, Chris Bosh, Wade

2002 - Yao, Jay Williams, Mike Dunleavy Jr.

2001 - Kwame Brown, Tyson Chandler, Pau Gasol

2000 - Kenyon Martin, Stromile Swift, Darius Miles

2005 and 2003 were thought of as being "loaded" drafts so I included more than three players from those. But of the 35 players listed here, there are four that are arguably top-10 NBA players (Harden, Paul, James, Rose) and five more that come in to the next ten and/or have been top-10 players at some point in their careers (Griffin, Gasol, Yao, Wade, Howard). So with a top 3 pick you have about a 25% chance of getting a top-10 player through the top part of lottery. Even if you add in Kyrie from 2011 and Davis from 2012 you still don't have a great shot at getting an upper echelon player.

This year's draft is loaded and features 6 or 7 guys that could conceivably be all stars (Wiggins, Parker, Randle, and Gordon all have superstar potential IMO). So that would be the third strong draft in 14 years. Oof.

My long-winded point is that winning the lottery is a hope bad teams cling to but barring the rarest of circumstances, a top-3 pick doesn't often change the long-term direction of the team.

Yes, hitting a top pick is a long shot, but not nearly as big of long shot as Milwaukee signing a top tier free agent. Even Milwaukee trading for one is a bigger long shot since players basically demand to get traded to certain teams nowadays and the Bucks ain't one of those teams.

From a business perspective, yes, being an 8 seed every year is better for the bottom line and if that is all an owner cares about, so be it.

I touched on this when talking about the Bobcats, but it's the same issue.

The Charlotte's and Milwaukee's simply have to have a lower standard. They just do. Having a solid team and letting the fans see some home games is pretty much the ultimate goal for these types of franchises.

Trying to do that, through smart mid to late lottery picks and solid, but unspectacular FA's makes more sense than tanking, imo.

Duncan is still the only #1 or can't miss prospect to go to a small market and lead them to a title in the last 30 years. MIL and CHA have never been anywhere near the quality of organization that SA was before Duncan. Duncan almost certainly would've left MIL or CHA as soon as he could've (and he never would've won a title before that).

The other example is SEA/OKC. They didn't strike lottery gold once. They did it three times with a fantastic later pick in Ibaka. They also had a huge stroke of luck getting the #2 instead of #1.Maybe they'll get a ring, but I wouldn't count on it. They get 3 more shots during LeBron's prime, then it's all over.

CHA or MIL could tank for Wiggins. They almost certainly still wouldn't get him. If they did, he'd leave well before taking them to a title. They'd do what CLE did and what NO has just begun....start signing all of the wrong players because they have to make the run right now. That's not even the wrong approach, but even though it's a flawed approach, you pretty much have to.

Whether they are building correctly in an attempt to compete is another matter, but I think it makes sense to try to do without completely tanking.

 

[Abraham]

Duncan is still the only #1 or can't miss prospect to go to a small market and lead them to a title in the last 30 years. MIL and CHA have never been anywhere near the quality of organization that SA was before Duncan. Duncan almost certainly would've left MIL or CHA as soon as he could've (and he never would've won a title before that).

CHA or MIL could tank for Wiggins. They almost certainly still wouldn't get him. If they did, he'd leave well before taking them to a title.

Even though it kind of undermines my point, I don't agree with this entirely. Yes, Duncan is the only small market guy to take a team to a title. But Lebron, Howard, and Shaq all took small market teams to the finals (as has Durant).

 

[B-Deep]

How do people tolerate a league where there are teams like the bucks and Charlotte which simply cannot compete?

there's been 8 different teams (if i count right) that have won championships in the last 30 years

in the nfl there have been 8 in the last 11 or 12

 

[pollardsvision]

Duncan is still the only #1 or can't miss prospect to go to a small market and lead them to a title in the last 30 years. MIL and CHA have never been anywhere near the quality of organization that SA was before Duncan. Duncan almost certainly would've left MIL or CHA as soon as he could've (and he never would've won a title before that).

CHA or MIL could tank for Wiggins. They almost certainly still wouldn't get him. If they did, he'd leave well before taking them to a title.

Even though it kind of undermines my point, I don't agree with this entirely. Yes, Duncan is the only small market guy to take a team to a title. But Lebron, Howard, and Shaq all took small market teams to the finals (as has Durant).

I don't think there's an absolute here. I'm just saying that I think there's some validity to not completely tanking.

I still don't think LeBron/Howard/Shaq/Durant nullify the point. In the case of LeBron and Howard, those teams were forced to hastily throw out bad contracts to get a solid team around them. It takes a couple of years for the stud to come into his own, be ready to be a title contender, and thus, to attract great FAs. By the time you're able to do that, the end is near and you've already started collecting overpaid players that hurt roster flexibility when it's closing in on time to lose the stud.

Basically, LeBron/Shaq/Durant (and you hope, Howard) used their first teams to hone in their championship pedigree. By the time they were ready to be champions, it was time to move on.

Durant's a special case as I mentioned in the edit. They struck gold 3 times, had massive luck in getting the #2 and not #1, and also got a steal in Ibaka. The odd's of that happening anywhere else are astronomical. Still a good chance the Durant Thunder won't get a title in these next 3 years before it ends.

If MIL or CHA land Wiggins, he will watch LeBron, then Durant win titles while he sharpens his skills. Then he'll go win titles in a big market.

Also, you mention just making the NBA Finals as a big "victory" for these small market teams. I agree. Like I said, they just have to have lower standards.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

How do people tolerate a league where there are teams like the bucks and Charlotte which simply cannot compete?

there's been 8 different teams (if i count right) that have won championships in the last 30 years

in the nfl there have been 8 in the last 11 or 12

its a by product of a small number of players on the team, you really only need 2 studs to win, The Lakers, Celtics, Bulls, Spurs, Pistons and Heat hold most of the titles the last 33 years.

Plus the league likes to feature the marquee teams , and its odd that the marquee teams always get the marquee players