*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)

[hxperson]

Harrison Barnes dropped from #2 to #7, though that process took months (he might've even dropped from #1 to #7, if we go back to before the week Anthony Davis grew 18 inches).

Of course, that's only about half of Shabazz' plummet and we still don't know if Barnes will end up out-producing his draft slot by much.

IMO Barnes dropped mostly because of a poor freshman year and his stock was pretty level in the 3-7 range throughout his sophmore season. I think a better recent example might be Jared Sullinger, who was thought of as top 5 in 2011, had a mediocre sophmore year but still considered around 10, was drafted 21 as people really started to feel he was too small and unathletic to be successful. He is obviously proving his critics wrong. Kawhi Leonard, from the previous draft, was also firmly considered top 10 (people were talking about the Raps possibly taking him at 4) and then his stock started dropping in the week or two before the draft. He ended up getting taken 15, and is playing like a top 5 pick from that draft. However, both drafts were significantly better than this year's draft so its easier to explain these players slipping.

 

[Premier]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

No chance at all.

 

[Man of Zen]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

At the top of the draft like this? Paul Pierce, maybe?

 

[hxperson]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

At the top of the draft like this? Paul Pierce, maybe?

If I remember correctly, Piece really only fell during the draft..I don't think he was slipping much prior to it and his fall to 10 was a surprise to most. He was also in a strong draft, which was part of the reason why he slipped.

 

[Man of Zen]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

At the top of the draft like this? Paul Pierce, maybe?

If I remember correctly, Piece really only fell during the draft..I don't think he was slipping much prior to it and his fall to 10 was a surprise to most. He was also in a strong draft, which was part of the reason why he slipped.

On the flip side, he's the only guy mentioned who did slip and has been close to "turning out as good as he was projected to be" before it happened.

I have hope Sullinger may qualify someday, but he hasn't done anything but show a few moments of promise and occupy an operating table so far.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Yeah, I don't remember Pierce's draft but he seems like a pretty good example.

 

[DrJ]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

At the top of the draft like this? Paul Pierce, maybe?

If I remember correctly, Piece really only fell during the draft..I don't think he was slipping much prior to it and his fall to 10 was a surprise to most. He was also in a strong draft, which was part of the reason why he slipped.

On the flip side, he's the only guy mentioned who did slip and has been close to "turning out as good as he was projected to be" before it happened.I have hope Sullinger may qualify someday, but he hasn't done anything but show a few moments of promise and occupy an operating table so far.

Noah seems to be a similar story.

 

[Man of Zen]

I guess I should add that it would take pretty miraculous circumstances for a guy's stock to fall during the draft. I'd suggest that the real difference between a guy whose stock falls to the 10-20 range in the weeks before the draft (like Shabazz) and a guy whose stock falls to the 10-20 range on draft night (like Pierce) is mostly whether or not the media gets wind of it.

 

[sporthenry]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

For all the crap people give them, NBA talent evaluators are pretty good at what they do. This isn't the NFL where a guy's stock falls because he tests positive for weed or something stupid like that. The NBA guys usually get it right.

Well looking at RSCI, there seem to be quite a few guys who have fallen. My Link

The problem with this is that mock drafts and recruiting rankings have become so mainstream so its tough for most to remember or even find any evidence if Zach Randolphs drop from #1 recruit to 19th pick the following year was that big.

If you just go back to '06 (1 and done rule), Barnes and Jennings were #1 recruits who fell out of top 5 granted Barnes stayed another year. Jrue Holiday and Sullinger were #2 and fell out of the lottery much like Muhammad. Like Barnes, Sullinger stayed 2 years which makes them more likely to fall.

I'd say Holiday's fall shows you can do pretty well.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

For all the crap people give them, NBA talent evaluators are pretty good at what they do. This isn't the NFL where a guy's stock falls because he tests positive for weed or something stupid like that. The NBA guys usually get it right.

Well looking at RSCI, there seem to be quite a few guys who have fallen. My Link

The problem with this is that mock drafts and recruiting rankings have become so mainstream so its tough for most to remember or even find any evidence if Zach Randolphs drop from #1 recruit to 19th pick the following year was that big.

If you just go back to '06 (1 and done rule), Barnes and Jennings were #1 recruits who fell out of top 5 granted Barnes stayed another year. Jrue Holiday and Sullinger were #2 and fell out of the lottery much like Muhammad. Like Barnes, Sullinger stayed 2 years which makes them more likely to fall.

I'd say Holiday's fall shows you can do pretty well.

Isn't RSCI a pre-college thing? I'm talking about guys who fall just in the couple of months before the draft, not guys who fall because people see them play in college and realize they're not as good as advertised. I'd put Z-Bo and Barnes in the latter category, along with Sullinger's second year at Ohio State. They were wrong about Z-Bo, but that's not the kind of wrong I was talking about.

Interesting to check it out, though. I had to Google Kelvin Torbert to remember who he was.

 

[tommyGunZ]

Some great names on that list. Lenny Cooke and Korleone Young probably both pushing 4 bills these days.

 

[the moops]

Sullinger slipped because he had a bad back.

 

[sporthenry]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

For all the crap people give them, NBA talent evaluators are pretty good at what they do. This isn't the NFL where a guy's stock falls because he tests positive for weed or something stupid like that. The NBA guys usually get it right.

Well looking at RSCI, there seem to be quite a few guys who have fallen. My Link

The problem with this is that mock drafts and recruiting rankings have become so mainstream so its tough for most to remember or even find any evidence if Zach Randolphs drop from #1 recruit to 19th pick the following year was that big.

If you just go back to '06 (1 and done rule), Barnes and Jennings were #1 recruits who fell out of top 5 granted Barnes stayed another year. Jrue Holiday and Sullinger were #2 and fell out of the lottery much like Muhammad. Like Barnes, Sullinger stayed 2 years which makes them more likely to fall.

I'd say Holiday's fall shows you can do pretty well.

Isn't RSCI a pre-college thing? I'm talking about guys who fall just in the couple of months before the draft, not guys who fall because people see them play in college and realize they're not as good as advertised. I'd put Z-Bo and Barnes in the latter category, along with Sullinger's second year at Ohio State. They were wrong about Z-Bo, but that's not the kind of wrong I was talking about.

Interesting to check it out, though. I had to Google Kelvin Torbert to remember who he was.

Yeah, RSCI is pre college (August) but it usually is a pretty good indicator especially with one and doners at least to start. It is tough to know exactly when Shabazz started to fall. I though Draft Express had more mocks but looking at Shabazz's history, they only had 2 after January and they were in May and June. My Link

If you compare that with someone like Barnes, he had dropped by January of his freshman year but in December he was #3. It seems that RSCI and mock drafts are pretty similar in that December/January area b/c you only have a month to look at kids and freshman are still evaluated on potential. Selby was #8 in their October mock and was #12 in one of their January mocks.

I just think Shabazz's drop has as much to do with his play in college than it does with anything else. He had probably played himself out of the top 5 with his college performance. Then it came out that he was 20 which was a huge issue not just b/c he lied but 1 year is pretty big in their eyes. So that probably cost him another 5 or so spots.

ETA: RSCI actually finalizes at different times different years. Sometimes its in May, June, July or August.

 

[DocGonzo]

Pistons in on Brandon Jennings?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2013/07/report_detroit_pistons_have_di.html#incart_river

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Pistons in on Brandon Jennings?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2013/07/report_detroit_pistons_have_di.html#incart_river

Pistons trying to corner the market on terrible shooters?

 

[TobiasFunke]

Harden2.0 update:

Muhammad scored seven points and was 3-of-7 from the field in 25 minutes Saturday while playing for Minnesota's Las Vegas summer league team.

I think he will be the best player from this draft.

I don't.

I'm trying to remember the last time someone's draft stock plummeted in the weeks/months leading up to the draft and then that player turned out to be as good as he was projected to be pre-plummet.

For all the crap people give them, NBA talent evaluators are pretty good at what they do. This isn't the NFL where a guy's stock falls because he tests positive for weed or something stupid like that. The NBA guys usually get it right.

Well looking at RSCI, there seem to be quite a few guys who have fallen. My Link

The problem with this is that mock drafts and recruiting rankings have become so mainstream so its tough for most to remember or even find any evidence if Zach Randolphs drop from #1 recruit to 19th pick the following year was that big.

If you just go back to '06 (1 and done rule), Barnes and Jennings were #1 recruits who fell out of top 5 granted Barnes stayed another year. Jrue Holiday and Sullinger were #2 and fell out of the lottery much like Muhammad. Like Barnes, Sullinger stayed 2 years which makes them more likely to fall.

I'd say Holiday's fall shows you can do pretty well.

Isn't RSCI a pre-college thing? I'm talking about guys who fall just in the couple of months before the draft, not guys who fall because people see them play in college and realize they're not as good as advertised. I'd put Z-Bo and Barnes in the latter category, along with Sullinger's second year at Ohio State. They were wrong about Z-Bo, but that's not the kind of wrong I was talking about.

Interesting to check it out, though. I had to Google Kelvin Torbert to remember who he was.

Yeah, RSCI is pre college (August) but it usually is a pretty good indicator especially with one and doners at least to start. It is tough to know exactly when Shabazz started to fall. I though Draft Express had more mocks but looking at Shabazz's history, they only had 2 after January and they were in May and June. My Link

If you compare that with someone like Barnes, he had dropped by January of his freshman year but in December he was #3. It seems that RSCI and mock drafts are pretty similar in that December/January area b/c you only have a month to look at kids and freshman are still evaluated on potential. Selby was #8 in their October mock and was #12 in one of their January mocks.

I just think Shabazz's drop has as much to do with his play in college than it does with anything else. He had probably played himself out of the top 5 with his college performance. Then it came out that he was 20 which was a huge issue not just b/c he lied but 1 year is pretty big in their eyes. So that probably cost him another 5 or so spots.

Maybe it was the combo of the hype around Shabazz and the number of spots he fell that made it seem so drastic. And you're right, the lying about his age thing is definitely a factor that you don't normally see.

 

[DocGonzo]

Pistons in on Brandon Jennings?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2013/07/report_detroit_pistons_have_di.html#incart_river

Pistons trying to corner the market on terrible shooters?

Right? I'm probably one of the few Pistons fans left who still mostly has faith in Dumars (partly blinders, I'm sure, as I grew up watching him play) but even I'm not sure what his plan is here. Jennings is a nice player, but it seems like he'll be an expensive PG option who doesn't really provide a significant upgrade over the much cheaper guy they've got.

I don't know. I'm partly just glad they're back in the fray and spending money again. The moratorium while the team was being sold took some life out of the fan base. I think we're all kind of hoping Gores is a Cuban-like guy that will start spending money and doing the things he needs to do to attract good players.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Pistons in on Brandon Jennings?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2013/07/report_detroit_pistons_have_di.html#incart_river

Pistons trying to corner the market on terrible shooters?

Right? I'm probably one of the few Pistons fans left who still mostly has faith in Dumars (partly blinders, I'm sure, as I grew up watching him play) but even I'm not sure what his plan is here. Jennings is a nice player, but it seems like he'll be an expensive PG option who doesn't really provide a significant upgrade over the much cheaper guy they've got.

I don't know. I'm partly just glad they're back in the fray and spending money again. The moratorium while the team was being sold took some life out of the fan base. I think we're all kind of hoping Gores is a Cuban-like guy that will start spending money and doing the things he needs to do to attract good players.

Yeah, those blinders must be pretty thick. Dumars has been Isiah-esque recently. Jennings is a pretty terrible PG. Lots of hype and sufficiently overrated. His only "plus" skill would taking care of the ball. Everything else is below average.

Pistons were looking to have a good future with Drummond and Monroe but the Smith and Jennings signings are pretty terrible.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Pistons in on Brandon Jennings?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2013/07/report_detroit_pistons_have_di.html#incart_river

Pistons trying to corner the market on terrible shooters?

Right? I'm probably one of the few Pistons fans left who still mostly has faith in Dumars (partly blinders, I'm sure, as I grew up watching him play) but even I'm not sure what his plan is here. Jennings is a nice player, but it seems like he'll be an expensive PG option who doesn't really provide a significant upgrade over the much cheaper guy they've got.

I don't know. I'm partly just glad they're back in the fray and spending money again. The moratorium while the team was being sold took some life out of the fan base. I think we're all kind of hoping Gores is a Cuban-like guy that will start spending money and doing the things he needs to do to attract good players.

Yeah, those blinders must be pretty thick. Dumars has been Isiah-esque recently. Jennings is a pretty terrible PG. Lots of hype and sufficiently overrated. His only "plus" skill would taking care of the ball. Everything else is below average.

Pistons were looking to have a good future with Drummond and Monroe but the Smith and Jennings signings are pretty terrible.

Yep. I think they were in good position to start to get somewhere, but Smith (and possibly Jennings) are going to hamstring them pretty badly. And I like Smith...just not as a perimeter-oriented 3.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Pistons in on Brandon Jennings?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2013/07/report_detroit_pistons_have_di.html#incart_river

Pistons trying to corner the market on terrible shooters?

Right? I'm probably one of the few Pistons fans left who still mostly has faith in Dumars (partly blinders, I'm sure, as I grew up watching him play) but even I'm not sure what his plan is here. Jennings is a nice player, but it seems like he'll be an expensive PG option who doesn't really provide a significant upgrade over the much cheaper guy they've got.

I don't know. I'm partly just glad they're back in the fray and spending money again. The moratorium while the team was being sold took some life out of the fan base. I think we're all kind of hoping Gores is a Cuban-like guy that will start spending money and doing the things he needs to do to attract good players.

Yeah, those blinders must be pretty thick. Dumars has been Isiah-esque recently. Jennings is a pretty terrible PG. Lots of hype and sufficiently overrated. His only "plus" skill would taking care of the ball. Everything else is below average.

Pistons were looking to have a good future with Drummond and Monroe but the Smith and Jennings signings are pretty terrible.

Perhaps they're looking to lead the league in defensive three second calls drawn.

 

[Man of Zen]

Only want to add that I don't think Z-Bo is relevant to the search for late-inning plungers. His off-court stuff certainly played a role in his evaluation coming into the draft, but I think it's still pretty easy to find pre-draft evaluations. They say things like "NBA body, but lacking the athleticism to make him a franchise PF."

I think it's consistent to say a guy has a body that makes him a man among boys coming out of HS, and that fact makes him a major college prospect, but that the same body sends up red flags as being possibly too clunky to excel in the NBA. Like Tebow or Tommy Frazier can have skills that make them killer college prospects, but that any NFL team would have to be insane to draft one of them in the first round.

 

[Man of Zen]

And that I also hate Jennings for the Pistons.

 

[coyote5]

As a Bucks fan I'm a huge fan of Jennings for the Pistons.

 

[sporthenry]

Only want to add that I don't think Z-Bo is relevant to the search for late-inning plungers. His off-court stuff certainly played a role in his evaluation coming into the draft, but I think it's still pretty easy to find pre-draft evaluations. They say things like "NBA body, but lacking the athleticism to make him a franchise PF."

I think it's consistent to say a guy has a body that makes him a man among boys coming out of HS, and that fact makes him a major college prospect, but that the same body sends up red flags as being possibly too clunky to excel in the NBA. Like Tebow or Tommy Frazier can have skills that make them killer college prospects, but that any NFL team would have to be insane to draft one of them in the first round.

Fair enough. That is the problem with using HS rankings projecting college players b/c some guys can be dominant in HS but still have questions about their success in the NBA mainly b/c of size/athleticism. But without the amount of mock drafts/exposure that was lacking, RSCI is probably the closest thing we can get.

But I agree, there are some top recruits who were always rated lower by the NBA for fears of their tweener designation which didn't affect them in college. But whats interesting is that what happened in college over the past few years seems to be happening more in the NBA where positional lines are blurred and coaches are playing with line ups more which has resulted in a lot of these tweeners succeeding. Guys like Tobias Harris, Terrence Jones, Avery Bradley and even Sullinger (who fell for his back as well) all had questions about their position but seem to have developed a niche. Seems like there is value in just going BPA and finding them a position later (although Beasley currently stands out as the failure in that idea).

 

[DocGonzo]

Pistons in on Brandon Jennings?

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2013/07/report_detroit_pistons_have_di.html#incart_river

Pistons trying to corner the market on terrible shooters?

Right? I'm probably one of the few Pistons fans left who still mostly has faith in Dumars (partly blinders, I'm sure, as I grew up watching him play) but even I'm not sure what his plan is here. Jennings is a nice player, but it seems like he'll be an expensive PG option who doesn't really provide a significant upgrade over the much cheaper guy they've got.

I don't know. I'm partly just glad they're back in the fray and spending money again. The moratorium while the team was being sold took some life out of the fan base. I think we're all kind of hoping Gores is a Cuban-like guy that will start spending money and doing the things he needs to do to attract good players.

Yeah, those blinders must be pretty thick. Dumars has been Isiah-esque recently. Jennings is a pretty terrible PG. Lots of hype and sufficiently overrated. His only "plus" skill would taking care of the ball. Everything else is below average.

Pistons were looking to have a good future with Drummond and Monroe but the Smith and Jennings signings are pretty terrible.

Yep. I think they were in good position to start to get somewhere, but Smith (and possibly Jennings) are going to hamstring them pretty badly. And I like Smith...just not as a perimeter-oriented 3.

Can't really disagree with these last two posts. Yeah, the blinders are probably pretty thick. I'm hopeful that Gores shooting the lock off the team's wallet will allow Dumars to do some things, but Dumars still has to do smart things -- and at this point he's done as much dumb over the past several years as he did smart the years prior. And, if I'm objective about it for a minute, even when he built the 2004 champs and the teams that followed he got quite a boost from things like Ben Wallace becoming what he did, and Chauncey figuring things out. If those guys don't pan out Dumars probably isn't even still in his chair today.

I like Smith too. I've read a couple of articles that the intent is for him to play the bulk of his minutes at the 4. I've also read a lot from Dumars and his new philosophy seems to be to forget about positions and just grab good players who blend well together on the floor. Not sure he's hit that with Smith added to Monroe and Drummond. I guess I'm willing to hold off on judgment though until I see what the finished product looks like this fall. I don't think he's done making moves yet.

And Drummond...my oh my. Watched the summer league games and was reminded of just how much raw potential that guy has. He's got the goods to be ridiculous.

 

[tommyGunZ]

If I'm a Pistons fan I'm happy with the signings. Josh Smith is being nit picked to death; while his shortcomings are obvious, it seems many are forgetting all of the things he does very well.

Same with Jennings, IMO. Of course he doesn't deserve max money, but he's not getting it either. Speed kills in the NBA, and Jennings has it in droves. He's still only 23. With the nice front line Detroit has put together, he should be able to pick his spots and be a much better defender than he was in Milwaukee prior to Sanders emerging.

And Drummond is just an absolute monster.

 

[TobiasFunke]

If I'm a Pistons fan I'm happy with the signings. Josh Smith is being nit picked to death; while his shortcomings are obvious, it seems many are forgetting all of the things he does very well.

Same with Jennings, IMO. Of course he doesn't deserve max money, but he's not getting it either. Speed kills in the NBA, and Jennings has it in droves. He's still only 23. With the nice front line Detroit has put together, he should be able to pick his spots and be a much better defender than he was in Milwaukee prior to Sanders emerging.

And Drummond is just an absolute monster.

I think the problems with Smith are more about fit on a team with two quality young big men than about Smith himself. It suggests that he'll spend lots of time doing the things he gets criticized for and less time doing the things he does well.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Drummond was so bad when he was with Connecticut. I wish we'd gotten some of the good Drummond. :(

Although TBF, he and Oriakhi were a bit redundant.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

If I'm a Pistons fan I'm happy with the signings. Josh Smith is being nit picked to death; while his shortcomings are obvious, it seems many are forgetting all of the things he does very well.

Same with Jennings, IMO. Of course he doesn't deserve max money, but he's not getting it either. Speed kills in the NBA, and Jennings has it in droves. He's still only 23. With the nice front line Detroit has put together, he should be able to pick his spots and be a much better defender than he was in Milwaukee prior to Sanders emerging.

And Drummond is just an absolute monster.

Smith on his own is a very good player but he looks like he'll be a terrible fit in Detroit. Jennings may have speed, but thats about it. He's a terrible shooter from anywhere inside the 3 point line. Can't finish at the rim. Below average from mid-range. Barely average from 3. But hey, at least he can kill people with his speed.

 

[Spartans Rule]

Why are people talking about Jennings like its a done deal? A guy from the Racine newspaper tweeted that there's whispers at the summer league that the Bucks and Pistons are discussing a sign-and-trade. This barely even rises to the level of a rumor.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Jennings was a -12.1 on/off last season . By far the worst of anyone on the Bucks who played significant minutes. The defense was 9.2 points better and the offense was 3.8 points when Jennings was sitting. That is horrific. Next worst was Dalembert at 6.8.

ETA: 2nd worst in the league ahead of only Norris Cole.

2012 was damn near as bad at -9.8.

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Timberwolves are all but set as we await the Pek signing (which seems highly probably) and one roster spot not yet locked in:

PG: Rubio, Barea, Shved

SG: Kevin Martin, Shved, Shabazz

SF: Budinger, Brewer, Shabazz

PF: Love, D. Williams, D. Cunningham

C : Pekovic, Dieng, Turiaf, C. Johnson

2nd round pick Lorenzo Brown and last year's 2nd Robbie Hummel are the likely candidates for the final spot I guess.

I think this team's biggest problem (besides past health issues) is that they have a lot of guys that do a couple of things but aren't good on both sides of the ball. I appreciate that they added Turiaf and Brewer and Dieng in the draft to get some defense -- just like they added Martin and Shabazz to get some shooting. While they seem deeper than past squads, it also feels like a hodgepodge of players that will have to be mixed and matched depending on what the other team is doing. And you'd much rather be the team dictating matchups than the one reacting.

I would love to see the team stay healthy and get into the playoffs. It's been so long. :/

 

[Spartans Rule]

The winners in a Jennings-to-the-Pistons deal would be the Bobcats, since they get Detroit's first-round pick next season.

 

[Cliff Clavin]

Heat to amnesty Miller.

 

[tommyGunZ]

If I'm a Pistons fan I'm happy with the signings. Josh Smith is being nit picked to death; while his shortcomings are obvious, it seems many are forgetting all of the things he does very well.

Same with Jennings, IMO. Of course he doesn't deserve max money, but he's not getting it either. Speed kills in the NBA, and Jennings has it in droves. He's still only 23. With the nice front line Detroit has put together, he should be able to pick his spots and be a much better defender than he was in Milwaukee prior to Sanders emerging.

And Drummond is just an absolute monster.

I think the problems with Smith are more about fit on a team with two quality young big men than about Smith himself. It suggests that he'll spend lots of time doing the things he gets criticized for and less time doing the things he does well.

That's fair. There are 96 MPG available at the 4 and 5. That's 32 minutes each, and then maybe a bit more for each if Smooove can play the 3 for a few minutes per game when the Pistons go big and create some matchups.

I like the depth.

 

[Spartans Rule]

If I'm a Pistons fan I'm happy with the signings. Josh Smith is being nit picked to death; while his shortcomings are obvious, it seems many are forgetting all of the things he does very well.

Same with Jennings, IMO. Of course he doesn't deserve max money, but he's not getting it either. Speed kills in the NBA, and Jennings has it in droves. He's still only 23. With the nice front line Detroit has put together, he should be able to pick his spots and be a much better defender than he was in Milwaukee prior to Sanders emerging.

And Drummond is just an absolute monster.

I think the problems with Smith are more about fit on a team with two quality young big men than about Smith himself. It suggests that he'll spend lots of time doing the things he gets criticized for and less time doing the things he does well.

That's fair. There are 96 MPG available at the 4 and 5. That's 32 minutes each, and then maybe a bit more for each if Smooove can play the 3 for a few minutes per game when the Pistons go big and create some matchups.

I like the depth.

Yeah, I'm hopeful that Smith will be playing a lot at the 4.

The Smith signing has grown on me a lot just because I'm not sure what better move the Pistons could've made. They entered the offseason with a ton of cap space and needed to spend a lot just to reach the salary floor. They signed the best player they could reasonably hope to get. He's not a perfect fit, but at least he's a really good player. If the Pistons didn't land Smith, they were probably going to end up pulling a repeat of the Gordon-Villanueva fiasco from a few years ago. Hell, they might have gone after Jennings just with a straight contract offer instead of a sign-and-trade. :X

 

[Good Posting Judge]

the Gordon-Villanueva fiasco

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

I can't see Drummond playing much more that 26-28 mpg next year. He averaged 20.1 last season, but over the last 10 games he cranked it up to 25.9. He averaged 3.9 fouls per game and fouled out once (two 5 spots) during that stretch. He averaged 11pts, 8 rebs and 1 steal/block each per game as well.

Monroe was 33mpg last year.

Smith is a career 35.x guy.

28+33+35 = 96

I don't think it'll kill them to have Smith play 5-7 mins at 3 per game either. Plenty of room!

 

[Notorious T.R.E.]

Dieng with a 18 footer after getting the block on the other end. #summerleague.

 

[Frostillicus]

Dieng with a 18 footer after getting the block on the other end. #summerleague.

WE DID IT!

 

[Premier]

Jennings is ####ing terrible. Detroit is out of their minds if this is true.

 

[Synthesizer]

I'm still a big Dumars supporter. He absolutely nailed most of his early decisions.....

-- Sign and trade for B.Wallace

-- Signed Billups as a free agent

-- Traded for Rip

-- Traded for Rasheed

-- Drafted T.Prince with the 23rd pick

-- Even some smaller moves like drafted Mehmet Okur in the 2nd round, Delfino in the late 1st, and let the Bulls waste $50 mil on B.Wallace.

His moves lately have been really bad but on the bright side, he always seems to have cap space, and he drafted a really nice front line with the 7th pick (Monroe) and 9th pick (Drummond).

 

[DocGonzo]

I can't see Drummond playing much more that 26-28 mpg next year. He averaged 20.1 last season, but over the last 10 games he cranked it up to 25.9. He averaged 3.9 fouls per game and fouled out once (two 5 spots) during that stretch. He averaged 11pts, 8 rebs and 1 steal/block each per game as well.

Monroe was 33mpg last year.

Smith is a career 35.x guy.

28+33+35 = 96

I don't think it'll kill them to have Smith play 5-7 mins at 3 per game either. Plenty of room!

This seems to be the thought process around the team and I hope it's true. And as others have probably noted at some point in the thread, Smith also provides depth in the event they can't work out a deal with Monroe or some team comes in and offers him a RFA contract the Pistons can't/won't match. They still need a PG and some shooting and athleticism on the wings, but I like where they're headed.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I'm still a big Dumars supporter. He absolutely nailed most of his early decisions.....

-- Sign and trade for B.Wallace

-- Signed Billups as a free agent

-- Traded for Rip

-- Traded for Rasheed

-- Drafted T.Prince with the 23rd pick

-- Even some smaller moves like drafted Mehmet Okur in the 2nd round, Delfino in the late 1st, and let the Bulls waste $50 mil on B.Wallace.

His moves lately have been really bad but on the bright side, he always seems to have cap space, and he drafted a really nice front line with the 7th pick (Monroe) and 9th pick (Drummond).

all those moves are like 12 years ago,

His draft picks have been awful. Don't even get me started on who he passed on for Darko again.

Drummond is his best recent pick and Monroe don't suck.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Maybe Chad Ford cast a spell on Joe.

 

[Synthesizer]

I'm still a big Dumars supporter. He absolutely nailed most of his early decisions.....

-- Sign and trade for B.Wallace

-- Signed Billups as a free agent

-- Traded for Rip

-- Traded for Rasheed

-- Drafted T.Prince with the 23rd pick

-- Even some smaller moves like drafted Mehmet Okur in the 2nd round, Delfino in the late 1st, and let the Bulls waste $50 mil on B.Wallace.

His moves lately have been really bad but on the bright side, he always seems to have cap space, and he drafted a really nice front line with the 7th pick (Monroe) and 9th pick (Drummond).

all those moves are like 12 years ago,

His draft picks have been awful. Don't even get me started on who he passed on for Darko again.

Drummond is his best recent pick and Monroe don't suck.

Darko will go down as one of the the worst picks ever, but do you really like Carmelo and Bosh that much?

 

[Synthesizer]

I'm still a big Dumars supporter. He absolutely nailed most of his early decisions.....

-- Sign and trade for B.Wallace

-- Signed Billups as a free agent

-- Traded for Rip

-- Traded for Rasheed

-- Drafted T.Prince with the 23rd pick

-- Even some smaller moves like drafted Mehmet Okur in the 2nd round, Delfino in the late 1st, and let the Bulls waste $50 mil on B.Wallace.

His moves lately have been really bad but on the bright side, he always seems to have cap space, and he drafted a really nice front line with the 7th pick (Monroe) and 9th pick (Drummond).

all those moves are like 12 years ago,

His draft picks have been awful. Don't even get me started on who he passed on for Darko again.

Drummond is his best recent pick and Monroe don't suck.

I also disagree that his draft picks have been awful. He's drafted in the top 5 once and he blew it. He's drafted in the 5-10 range 4 times and hit about 50% (Drummond and Monroe, B.Knight and Rodney White), and he's got quite a few steals in the late 1st/2nd (Prince, Okur, Delfino, Afflalo, Amir Johnson). Seems right in line with what most GMs would have done with those picks.

 

[Kev4029]

I'm still a big Dumars supporter. He absolutely nailed most of his early decisions.....

-- Sign and trade for B.Wallace

-- Signed Billups as a free agent

-- Traded for Rip

-- Traded for Rasheed

-- Drafted T.Prince with the 23rd pick

-- Even some smaller moves like drafted Mehmet Okur in the 2nd round, Delfino in the late 1st, and let the Bulls waste $50 mil on B.Wallace.

His moves lately have been really bad but on the bright side, he always seems to have cap space, and he drafted a really nice front line with the 7th pick (Monroe) and 9th pick (Drummond).

all those moves are like 12 years ago,

His draft picks have been awful. Don't even get me started on who he passed on for Darko again.

Drummond is his best recent pick and Monroe don't suck.

Darko will go down as one of the the worst picks ever, but do you really like Carmelo and Bosh that much?

Good point, passing on the three HOFers that followed Darko wasn't a big deal.

 

[Spartans Rule]

I'm still a big Dumars supporter. He absolutely nailed most of his early decisions.....

-- Sign and trade for B.Wallace

-- Signed Billups as a free agent

-- Traded for Rip

-- Traded for Rasheed

-- Drafted T.Prince with the 23rd pick

-- Even some smaller moves like drafted Mehmet Okur in the 2nd round, Delfino in the late 1st, and let the Bulls waste $50 mil on B.Wallace.

His moves lately have been really bad but on the bright side, he always seems to have cap space, and he drafted a really nice front line with the 7th pick (Monroe) and 9th pick (Drummond).

all those moves are like 12 years ago,

His draft picks have been awful. Don't even get me started on who he passed on for Darko again.

Drummond is his best recent pick and Monroe don't suck.

Darko will go down as one of the the worst picks ever, but do you really like Carmelo and Bosh that much?

Good point, passing on the three HOFers that followed Darko wasn't a big deal.

Adding a guy like Carmelo to a veteran contending team would've been disastrous for the chemistry. No way they win the 2004 title if they draft him.

Wade or Bosh would've been nice, I'll admit, although IIRC they weren't considered possible No. 2 picks by draft analysts.

 

[the moops]

Adding a guy like Carmelo to a veteran contending team would've been disastrous for the chemistry. No way they win the 2004 title if they draft him.

Oh come the #### on.