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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Cliff Clavin
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pollardsvision
Footballguy
I'm curious who the suitors are.
IMO, there's no point in obtaining LA unless he's your 2nd (or much more preferable, 3rd) best player. It's a pretty limited list of teams that makes sense to go to.
And of course, almost all of those don't have great young assets or the cap space to take on Aldridge.
It's not a very good package, but I can't see them getting more for 2 years of an expensive Aldridge.
Man of Zen
Footballguy
I don't really know what to make of Aldridge, though I don't blame him or his agent or the Blazers for trying to sell him as a top-tier star type player.
His stats look good on paper, but on the court, he never seems like a difference maker to me. I also don't think there's any wow factor to him that demands a premium for whatever boost he could conceivably bring to the fans or media.
At the same time, he might be the most complete PF package in the league right now, if by "complete" you're willing to accept some element of age. In the sense that you couldn't build around a Tim Duncan. Seems like all the PF's today are old, or a headcase, or undersized, or woefully incomplete as a player.
His stats look good on paper, but on the court, he never seems like a difference maker to me. I also don't think there's any wow factor to him that demands a premium for whatever boost he could conceivably bring to the fans or media.
At the same time, he might be the most complete PF package in the league right now, if by "complete" you're willing to accept some element of age. In the sense that you couldn't build around a Tim Duncan. Seems like all the PF's today are old, or a headcase, or undersized, or woefully incomplete as a player.
pollardsvision
Footballguy
From Kevin Arnitz' Daily Dime, some unnamed NBA execs views on the tanking strategy:
A fair amount of resentment exists among front offices trying to win basketball games in 2013-14 for those rival execs who aren't.
"When you sell failure, you can't be judged by failure," one exec said. "By doing it this way, they buy themselves a five-year cycle rather than a three-year cycle. It's about survival as much as strategy."
In other words, by selling owners on the idea that calamity must precede success, the Merchants of Tank get a pass from owners who might otherwise have a low threshold of tolerance for the volume of losses they're about to accumulate.
There are varied opinions as to whether or not decision-makers such as Philadelphia's new general manager, Sam Hinkie, are pursuing a sensible strategy. Some doff their caps to the pragmatism, boldness and, most of all, the power of persuasion required by an executive to sell 62 losses to owners who aren't accustomed to losing in life.
But others feel as if tankers are overplaying their hands. The thinking goes that tanking is all well and good when you're one of only a select group engaged in the practice (as Oklahoma City was during its construction). But when as many as a dozen teams are participating, the race to the bottom is far more competitive -- and potentially corrosive to the franchise.
"There are only three top-3 picks," one assistant general manager said. "Everyone wants to be the Thunder, but for the majority of teams, it doesn't work out that way. Meanwhile, you don't want to create a cultural malaise while you're busy driving away your fan base."
The unintended consequence of all this? The competitive balance the league purported to establish during the 2011 negotiations is as nonexistent as ever.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130718/daily-dime
A fair amount of resentment exists among front offices trying to win basketball games in 2013-14 for those rival execs who aren't.
"When you sell failure, you can't be judged by failure," one exec said. "By doing it this way, they buy themselves a five-year cycle rather than a three-year cycle. It's about survival as much as strategy."
In other words, by selling owners on the idea that calamity must precede success, the Merchants of Tank get a pass from owners who might otherwise have a low threshold of tolerance for the volume of losses they're about to accumulate.
There are varied opinions as to whether or not decision-makers such as Philadelphia's new general manager, Sam Hinkie, are pursuing a sensible strategy. Some doff their caps to the pragmatism, boldness and, most of all, the power of persuasion required by an executive to sell 62 losses to owners who aren't accustomed to losing in life.
But others feel as if tankers are overplaying their hands. The thinking goes that tanking is all well and good when you're one of only a select group engaged in the practice (as Oklahoma City was during its construction). But when as many as a dozen teams are participating, the race to the bottom is far more competitive -- and potentially corrosive to the franchise.
"There are only three top-3 picks," one assistant general manager said. "Everyone wants to be the Thunder, but for the majority of teams, it doesn't work out that way. Meanwhile, you don't want to create a cultural malaise while you're busy driving away your fan base."
The unintended consequence of all this? The competitive balance the league purported to establish during the 2011 negotiations is as nonexistent as ever.
http://espn.go.com/nba/dailydime/_/page/dime-130718/daily-dime
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I don't think the Blazers are serious about trading him at this point. I read an article that they'd be interested in Love, Noah, Horford or Anthony Davis but I don't think those teams would be interested in such swaps. Maybe they'll be willing to take a lesser package at the trading deadline or next offseason.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Agree with this. I think they'll move him if they get the moon, but otherwise they wait.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
Gonna be glorious to watch this team if they flame out again.
Nets owner Mikhal Prokhorov issued his own version of an ultimatum at Thursday's news conference introducing Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Jason Terry.
"I have done what I can. Now I think it is high time for the team to do the rest," Prokhorov said with a deadpan expression. It's hard to blame him for wanting results considering what he's willing to pay. In addition to a payroll of over $100 million, the Russian billionaire will reportedly be footing a luxury-tax bill of roughly $80 million for the roster GM Billy King assembled. All of this with a first-time head coach and five high-paid starters that each need the ball in their hands. At the very least, it'll be an interesting season in Brooklyn.
Nets owner Mikhal Prokhorov issued his own version of an ultimatum at Thursday's news conference introducing Kevin Garnett, Paul Pierce and Jason Terry.
"I have done what I can. Now I think it is high time for the team to do the rest," Prokhorov said with a deadpan expression. It's hard to blame him for wanting results considering what he's willing to pay. In addition to a payroll of over $100 million, the Russian billionaire will reportedly be footing a luxury-tax bill of roughly $80 million for the roster GM Billy King assembled. All of this with a first-time head coach and five high-paid starters that each need the ball in their hands. At the very least, it'll be an interesting season in Brooklyn.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Would Bosh for Aldridge be something either team is interested in?
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Kind of a lateral move for both. It might make MIA a bit better but not much... and you have the whole 'big 3 agreement' that was in place before they signed. No sense rocking the boat for at best a minimal upgrade.
Portland gains virtually by adding the same player who's proven many times he isn't a lead dog.
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Abraham
Footballguy
I realize that the default reaction to my proposals are that I am an idiot (sig material) but this isn't an awful deal, is it?
I like Aldridge and think he's a top-25 player in the league. But as the best player on the Blazers they have experienced very little success. He actually reminds me a fair bit of Bosh in that he can be a 20/9 guy for your .500 team if you want. I don't know if the Blazers are built to win now or if they are planning for the future or whatnot. But Asik is one of the top defensive centers in the league and led the league in total rebounds. Beverly may not excite you but many/most in Houston are eager for him to send Lin to the bench (which I know you think isn't a big feat, but still). Jones continues to develop and was fantastic in the Vegas league (summer league, I know). And the first round pick isn't exciting but it's still an asset.
I don't think they are getting a star in return for Aldridge. He's not fetching Noah or Love or Davis IMO.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Read your post again from Portland's POV.
They are getting a guy in Beverly who can't even unseat Jeremy freaking Lin for a starting job. Oh yeah and Portland has some guy that won ROY playing the same position.
Jones may improve but as of right now he is nothing. Guys who get sent down to the D league aren't exactly prime prospects. Please, for the love of jeebus, never mention summer league stats again. They are beyond useless. The only think summer league might tell you is if a player can't play.
The 1st round pick is weak asset but yes, it is an asset.
Asik is a one dimensional player. Yes, he's a very good defender but thats it. He's also a free agent after next season and will be looking at a big contract.
So to sum it up, Portland gets a good defender, a late pick and a couple weak bench players. Do you really think that is what a top 25 player is worth? No, he isn't fetching a star in return unless he gets packaged with Lillard but he should damn well fetch more than your proposed offer.
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Joe Summer
Footballguy
I don't think Portland will trade for Asik. Paul Allen doesn't want a daily reminder of the fact that he traded away Asik in 2008.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Who do the Blazers play at PF if they trade LA for Asik? Meyers Leonard? Robin Lopez?
Abraham
Footballguy
That's a good point. I admit I'm overvaluing Beverly and Jones.
It doesn't really look to me like there is a lot out there that he could fetch. Ryan Anderson and the Gordon deal maybe?
Long Ball Larry
Footballguy
BS report discussed this a couple weeks ago. How many teams are really tanking that purposefully?
Sixers
Magic
Jazz
Kings
Cetics
Suns
Raps?
Maybe Mavs?
I don't think that there are all that many that seriously doing it. Wiz, Bucks, Pistons, Cavs, Bobcats, Blazers, Hornets, Wolves are all non-playoff teams from last year that I would say are competing this year.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
All depends on how they view Gordon. 2011 Gordon, for sure. 2013 Gordon @ $15M/4 not so much
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
The Blazers are already loaded with SG's.
With better contracts. Gordon's gonna have to put a full season together before anyone touches him.
With better contracts. Gordon's gonna have to put a full season together before anyone touches him.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Good Posting Judge
Footballguy
Oh great, more Krazy Abe trade proposals.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
The only teams that have clearly made tanking moves are the Celtics, 76ers and Jazz.
Joe Summer
Footballguy
Loaded?? They have three unproven youngsters (one of which is a tweener) and the very workmanlike Wesley Matthews. All are replaceable.Batum and Dorell Wright can play some minutes at guard, but you don't want either one starting there.Craig_MiamiFL said:
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I don't think you'd get as many terrible games from Aldridge as you do with Bosh. Aldridge also has less miles on him and had been steadily improving up until last season. But as you say, Bosh is probably a little quicker and we've seen that he is more than willing to be a supporting player whereas we don't know how well Aldridge would feel about being a 3rd option.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Love for Asik would be awesome for the Twolves.Abraham said:
the moops
Footballguy
Lopez doesn't need the ball in his hands. He has never been the focal point of an offense. Garnett rarely has the ball in his hands and can't create for himself when he does. His damage is on pick and rolls. Joe Johnson seems pretty content being a spot up shooter.Craig_MiamiFL said:
Paul Pierce does need the ball in his hands. As does Deron Williams. That is not uncommon at all:To have two offensive playmakers that can create their own shot.
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
I love how position redundancy doesn't matter in these deals as long as it behooves the Rockets.
Craig_MiamiFL
Footballguy
SG is the deepest position on the entire Portland roster. And they just added McCollum and Crabbe. Batum and Wright can easily play the position (listed as G-F). That's 6 players on their roster that can play the 2 (Lillard/McCollum/Matthews/Crabbe/Batum/Wright). I figure they'll want to improve upon Leonard/Lopez and not make a lateral move at their deepest position by far.
Why on earth would Portland want the most overpaid one in the league outside of Joe Johnson? One that couldn't even play back-to-back most of last year?
No one will touch Gordon until he puts a full season together. Guys making $15 mil/yr shooting 40% from the field with a bad knee aren't in high demand.
He was worse than Lillard and Matthews last year. Portland is as bad a fit for Eric Gordon in the entire league.
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Abraham
Footballguy
Well, I'm not putting donuts in the deal so you are just going to have to accept it as is.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I can totally see the Wolves trading Love straight up for Asik. Good call.Abraham said:
Timmay
Footballguy
Like others have said, No one is going to touch Gordon unless he goes for a major discount. He is too risky, he didn't even play back to back games all of last year.
I do like what the Pelicans are doing this offseason though. It looks like besides Ryan Anderson, all they want their big's to do is hustle, rebound and defend with Davis, Withey, Stiemsma, Smith, and Amundson.
I do like what the Pelicans are doing this offseason though. It looks like besides Ryan Anderson, all they want their big's to do is hustle, rebound and defend with Davis, Withey, Stiemsma, Smith, and Amundson.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
Gordon and Greg Monroe to the Blazers
Aldridge to the Rockets
Asik, Jones, and Villanueva (expiring) to the Pelicans
Lin and Ryan Anderson to the Pistons
And like, a pick or two going Detroit's way as well.
Aldridge to the Rockets
Asik, Jones, and Villanueva (expiring) to the Pelicans
Lin and Ryan Anderson to the Pistons
And like, a pick or two going Detroit's way as well.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Bad deal for the Pistons IMO.
To start with, Monroe >> Aldridge. And of course Lin is terrible.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I used them because don't they need a forward who can shoot (Anderson) and a point guard better than Knight (Lin if they think so not saying I do please don't yell at me)? Maybe a bunch of picks come their way?
Abraham
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Wolves had these two last year. Amundson was a towel waiver. Stiemsma is maddening in that at times he looks like a good defender/rebounder/presence in the middle and the rest of the time he's a complete idiot.
encaitar
Footballguy
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Notorious T.R.E.
Showdown!™ Administrator
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
I'm pretty high on Monroe and think he is the best player in that entire package. A 23 year old big already averaging 15/10, can pass, rebound and defend. If he improves his scoring efficiency he's one of the best bigs in the league. Lin is useless so it is essentially Anderson + picks for Monroe. Anderson is a very good complimentary player but Monroe could develop into a franchise guy. If you think you can land a high lotto pick for next year, maybe you do it but that'd be a big gamble IMO.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
For the record I'm a big Monroe fan.
Village Idiot
Pokerguy
Even when Houston does not have him, the specter of Scola somehow manages to haunt another Krazy Abetm trade proposal.
I'm suprised you didn't manage to work Martin into this trade.
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