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*NBA THREAD* Abe will be missed (6 Viewers)

Tom Withers @twithersAP · 3m

AP: Two people familiar with the situation say Cavaliers' position has remained unchanged and that no offer including Wiggins has been made
This whole rumor mill is ridiculous. Would be shocked if the Cavs moved Wiggins before he's even had a chance to play with LeBron.
I would be shocked if they didn't... He is the final piece, Wiggins is a rookie. He has averaged 19/12 for his career, last year 26/12. Rebounds and shoots like a rock star. Who cares about 3 years down the road when they can win titles now?
Has there ever been a case of a team throwing this many new pieces together then winning a title the same year?
That's one problem with the trade.

The other problem with the trade is that Wiggins is a better fit IMO with the current personnel. The Cavs should already be well above average at rebounding and spacing/3 point shooting/offense with LeBron in the fold. I think their two biggest problems over the next couple seasons are (1) defense and (2) easing LeBron's workload. Wiggins can help a lot with both of those by guarding opponents' elite perimeter guys probably as soon as this season. Love just makes them even worse on defense.

They'd obviously be a better team with Love this coming season, but I think those factors plus the obvious potential benefits 3 or 5 or 7 years down the road for the Cavs if Wiggins comes remotely close to projections outweighs that.

 
Tom Withers @twithersAP · 3m

AP: Two people familiar with the situation say Cavaliers' position has remained unchanged and that no offer including Wiggins has been made
This whole rumor mill is ridiculous. Would be shocked if the Cavs moved Wiggins before he's even had a chance to play with LeBron.
I would be shocked if they didn't... He is the final piece, Wiggins is a rookie. He has averaged 19/12 for his career, last year 26/12. Rebounds and shoots like a rock star. Who cares about 3 years down the road when they can win titles now?
Has there ever been a case of a team throwing this many new pieces together then winning a title the same year?
Did Boston (Garnett, Allen) do it in year 1?
If memory serves they struggled early on in the playoffs, but squeaked by each round then there was that memorable game 4 vs. LA in the finals that propelled them to the title.

Sound about right?

But, yes, that's one.

 
sporthenry said:
The problem with Wiggins is that right now he is around equal or more valuable to most franchises. Love does have value immediately to the Cavs so the trade makes some sense but the Cavs would have to give up Wiggins plus to match salaries. So you're either selling really low on Bennett, trading your backup PF or your probable starig SG with Wiggins gone. And you are most likely not getting anything else back. If I was the Cavs I'd want something of value in addition to Love. Draft picks don't really help now. Trade exception would be nice but they're the ones taking on more salary. With Love, they become prohibitive favorites in the East but still missing pieces to win a title.
They can have Kevin Martin.
Sure, add even more salary. Martin makes more than any of the young Cavs players. The Cavs would have to give up Wiggins, Andy, Haywood and two of Thompson/Bennett/Waiters.

 
More details on the potential Klay/Love deal.

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2014/07/18/little-detail-warriors-tough-decision-keep-klay-thompson-kevin-love-trade-discussions/

More detail on the Warriors’ labored decision to keep Klay Thompson out of the Kevin Love trade discussionsPosted on July 18, 2014by Tim Kawakami
It hasn’t been a simple slam-dunk decision for Warriors co-owner Joe Lacob and GM Bob Myers–that’s what I’ve been repeatedly told in the last few days by several NBA sources, as the Kevin Love talks continue and the Warriors continue to resist Minnesota’s request for Klay Thompson.

The Warriors want Love, as do many other teams.

The Warriors also believe that Love would like being in the Bay Area, so they’re not overly worried about his ability to become a free agent next summer, though the pending free agency is a factor for everybody. (He’ll be a max-contract guy, he’ll have power over his team until he signs it, all those things are factors.)

Also, as has been noted repeatedly, the Warriors value Thompson very highly, so… the GSW front office has debated this thoroughly–it’s not a clash of opinions, it’s just the way Joe Lacob has set up this management team; he hired strong personalities and he wants everybody to get around a table and express themselves.

Then Lacob and Myers make the call.

Which leads to: Late last night, a Warriors source flatly denied a report that they are, indeed, offering Klay Thompson to Minnesota.

The source in fact sounded wholly and legitimately befuddled when I relayed the report, partly because the source had spent much of the previous few hours explaining to me why the Warriors would NOT offer Thompson in any such deal.

“It’s not true,” the source said of the new report.

You can say this is all just positioning and poker-playing, and there are obviously elements of all of that. As I’ve said for weeks, this is a fluid situation, it’s a negotiation, things can change. Things can ALWAYS change.

But I’ll just say that the sources I’ve talked to on this issue–will the Warriors offer Klay Thompson in a Love package–have been consistent, have raised exactly the same points, and explain the reasoning credibly and without puffy PR folderol.
Plus, if the Warriors were offering Thompson to Minnesota, let’s just say that the trade probably would’ve already happened by now.

So that’s why the new report surprised me–not because I believe the GSWS haven’t thought about trading Klay, but because I know they have; it’s because multiple sources say that after the debate, they’ve made the close call to keep Thompson out of it.
Close call. Agonizing call, by some descriptions. But that’s the call. (For now.)

Again, it’s also not as simple as the Warriors deciding that Thompson is too valuable to trade for Love.

The problem is “all of it,” one source said. The entirety of the deal points.

The suggestion is that Minnesota president & coach Flip Saunders is asking for so much that the Warriors do not believe that they can get enough back if they add Thompson into their offer.

And they sure don’t want to add Thompson only to have Saunders go back to Cleveland to get a better offer, and then go back to the GSWs and ask them to top Cleveland… and so on.
I don’t think Cleveland–reportedly now willing to discuss Andrew Wiggins as a part of a Love offer–wants any part of the raise, re-raise, re-re-raise scenario, either.

So my understanding is that the Warriors have decided to depart the process for now.

Let’s recap the extra pieces of the deal conversation…

-There’s the element of Saunders apparently requiring that the Warriors take back Kevin Martin’s $22M in any part of this deal;

-There’s the belief that the Warriors do not consider David Lee a throw-in and Minnesota apparently does;

-There’s the GSW focus on Thompson’s compatibility with Stephen Curry and the desire to always maximize Curry’s performance level;

-There’s the GSW opinion that if they subtract Thompson they don’t have a worthy 2-guard replacement and that the power of their current line-up is that they can put Curry and Thompson out there together–with Thompson defending the toughest, quickest perimeter opponents;

-There’s the knowledge that coach Steve Kerr likes this current lineup and especially Thompson and Curry as the guard tandem.

Essentially, it sounds like Lacob and Myers have decided that there is not enough of a compelling reason to put Thompson into this deal.

That could change. I was asked yesterday on Twitter how I might arrange an offer that includes Thompson, and I gave my thoughts (and infuriated a great many Minnesotans along the way, oh well)…

I theorized that the GSWs might only put Thompson into an offer if they can set conditions with Minnesota; those conditions, IN MY OPINION, might go something like, but not having to include ALL OF…

–Take KMartin’s $22M out of the deal and/or…

-Add either #1 pick Zach LaVine or…

-Minnesota’s next #1 pick (they don’t have their own pick next season).

I also added that I didn’t think Saunders would do any of those things, and I’m pretty sure I cannot actually force the Timberwolves to do anything they don’t want to.
I also don’ t know if the Warriors would do any of the things I’ve suggested.

But since I’ve typed them out again, I presume Minnesotans will come stomping at my digital door again demanding retribution. Warriors fans, maybe you can get mad at me, too.
 
Wow, the News Herald is reporting the Cavs will trade Wiggins, plus another player and picks for Love, rumor is James has had some input. I think this deal goes down in 48 hours.
James the GM = trouble for CLE
You mean like when Miami tripped all over themselves to get Napier because Lebron said he liked him?
Like there were far better prospects at that point in the draft.

Come on Captain seriously? Also Miami's owner unwilling to spend? WTF are you talking about. He paid 13MM in tax this past season. Mike Miller barely played for us...barely. It's amazing he played 82 games last season (an exception not a rule to his previous 3 years). He could barely walk in his 3 years here. Miller was basically unavailable his first two years here save for one great game in the Finals. Lebron did not leave because Mike Miller was amnestied. LOL!!!!

This was a calculated business decision for the Brand known as Lebron James. He had only one place to go to. Cleveland. That's it. Yeah it came about 2 years earlier than most of us thought down here...but we knew he was going back at some point. I sure as hell enjoyed the ride. Lebron is the freaking King...no doubt.

Enjoy Mike "oh my aching back" Miller this upcoming season. I like him as player when he can actually play...but he has not really done anything 3 out of the last 4 years. Come on. I would not be surprised to see him limp through this season. If he stays healthy? Great for the Cav's as he is a valuable asset when healthy to give some nice shooting and rebounding but let;s not procalim this as some amazing signing. He has red flags all over him.

In his 3 year tenure with the Heat (regular season) he played in:

2010/11 - 41 games 5.6 PPG 4.5 RPG

2011/12 - 39 games 6.1 PPG 3.3 RPG

2012/13 - 59 games 4.8 PPG 2.7 RPG

In the post season:

10/11 12 Mins per game 2.6 PPG 2.7 RPG total 18 games played

11/12 16 Mins per game 5.2 PPG 2.5 RPG total 23 games played

12/13 13 MINS per game 3.4 PPG 1.9 RPG total 17 games played

His one shining moment as a member of the Heat was his one incredible game 5 vs the Thunder (who we were beating regardless) where he went 7/8 on three pointers for 23 points. That is it. Is he a nice bench player to have? Yeah when he can actually walk. Which for the Heat was almost never. Pay him 17MM to stay here? How can you blame them for letting him go? That would have been wasted money. They took a shot on Oden, Beasley and Lewis. Only one of those three worked out. We do not beat the Spurs if Mike Miller stays and James Jones plays more. This is all such ridiculous talk and people reaching for answers. The answer is James wanted to go home now instead of 1-2 years from now because it made sense for him 9both team wise, cap wise perfect storm in a way), his family and what he will perceive as his legacy and maybe winning one for Cleveland. Multiple titles for Cleveland? Doubtful. If Miami wins a third straight? he would have signed for two years with a player option in the second year. Anything short of a title...it was pretty obvious now he was a goner. As a die hard Heat fan I totally misjudged what was most important to James.

James Jones? He could barely sniff the court down here. You will soon find out why. He can't play a lick of defense...not a single lick. Great 3 point shooter...nothing else at all though to see other than that. So he should give the Cav's 10-12 minutes. And you hope he is knocking his shot down because on the other end he is a turnstile. I love James as he is a 305 guy. But he is a huge liability for prolonged spurts. If you end up getting Ray Ray...oh how everyone was lambasting the Heat saying how can you depends on a 38 year old. Well he is 39 now. Again...it looks like the Heat 2.0 minus two critical parts. Bosh and Wade.

Arison and Riley provided everything James needed to win here (most improtantly Wade and Bosh people are minimizing them so badly right now it is laughable). And he won 2 titles. Something he could not do in Cleveland despite having the entire run of the asylum.

Oh and BTW. Lebron played less minutes in his last year with the Heat then any previous year with the Heat. Funny how some talk about heavy lifting etc etc. He played less total minutes in year 4 than any other year. I also find it incredible people talk about too much heavy lifting, blah blah. When your the best player in the world your going to do the heavy lifting. When your clearly the best player on the team your going to do the heavy lifting. The difference between his heavy lifting in Cleveland and Miami was 4 straight Finals and two rings. Go ask Magic, Michael, Larry, Malone, Charles about heavy lifting. When your the best that is what you do if you want to win.

Mike Miller and James Jones are table scraps. Not the real reason the Heat won. The main reasons are simple. Lebron, Wade and Bosh. So unless L Kyrie, Waiters and Wiggins can collectively rise to the level of play of Bosh and Wade...it remains to be seen if Cleveland will win it all. getting there..yeah no question they should be able to make a run at it in the weak East like The heat was able to last year. But beat the powers of the West? Who knows.

If Ray Allen joins up...it remains to be seen if he will have anything left to. He is turning 39 this year and clearly ran out of gas as well in the Finals. But ray Allen is in awesome shape and still has a great 3 point game. i love that guy. Enjoyed his two years down here. He is a class act. And he hit probably one of the biggest (if not biggest) shot in Heat history! That was just sick.

Lebron will find out what heavy lifting really is again this upcoming season (especially on defense). I really hope for Cleveland's sake they do land Love. Because as built right now? If your expecting a title....ain't gonna happen this year...and probably next. Will they be greatly improved? Oh yeah no doubt of course they will they have Lebron. Do they have some young guys that can develop into bonafide NBA prime time players...yeah no doubt. But will they develop? Unknown. Will Kyrie take his game to elite levels? Questionable as he has averaged 60 games played over his first 3 seasons and he is young and already showing he is injury prone. Will Wiggins develop? Probably but he is 19. Lebron has a 5 year window here. Let's be real. His game is also physical and he takes a pounding much like Wade has over the last 11 plus years. They need Love to win now. If they land Love then no question they can have a real shot at a title over the next few years coupled with Kyrie's and Waiters continued development. I am just not so sure about the rest of the squad. Love and Lebron are a tantalizing big 2 and again if Kyrie takes it to the next level...you have a great shot at special things.

They look a lot like The Heat (if they land Love). 3 big time players and a lot of questions about the role players. It is of my opinion though Lebron will never have a big 2 of Wade and Bosh in Kyrie and Love. I understand Love is a scoring machine, but defense? Playing under extreme pressure? Yet to be proven. Kyrie? Finish a season first. Gifted scorer indeed though. And he should greatly benefit from Lebron. But again...defense? Got to have championship defense to go all the way. The biggest thing about the Heat's two straight titles was the insane high energy defense creating the majestic breakaway/easy baskets between Lebron and Wade. It was legendary. Will Love and Kyrie provide that defensive energy that Wade and Bosh did? You have to question that. If you think they will just outscore your wrong. Elite teams that win titles win by playing elite defense.

DEFENSE wins titles. So where is the defense guys? Kyrie? Bennet? Thompson? I know Wiggins has huge defensive potential at the next level...but he is 19 and has to learn the NBA way. Far different than college. Usually takes a few years to develop physically and mentally to play top elite level defense in The Association.

So if the Cav's don't get Love...you really see a title in Cleveland over the next 2 years? Beyond that I can't say...no one can say. No one knows for certain how the young guys develop. It can go in the right direction and then they rule the NBA or the other way and never fulfill the potential.

I can't wait for the season to start again. I really can't. A whole new dynamic with Lebron in Cleveland. The entire East just opened up where as the last 4 years was all about who can topple Miami. Cleveland has to prove this year they can be in that discussion of "who will topple Cleveland". As a Heat fan I am actually really excited to see how Bosh and Wade respond and knowing them...they will play with a huge chip on their shoulders.

Right now for Cleveland (and yes now Miami) it's all on paper. New lineups, new dynamic. It will be fun for sure. The East is wide open indeed.

 
What? I don't understand what is so nuts.

Cleveland is a contender. But some are going overboard. Without Love they are not beating a Spurs, or a Clippers team. Sorry. Not gonna happen. Heck the Rockets would give them all they can handle.

You add Love and then we can talk about it. But what cost will they add love? Wiggins and Waiters? Or Wiggins and picks?

The season will play out and we will revisit this. Those calling for a Cav's title this year are getting ahead of themselves. Much like we did in year one of Miami's run.

It's not easy.

 
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I had a teacher in high school who I determined only read the first and last two paragraphs of every essay written. By mid-year I would write the most crisp and smooth #### you have ever read in the these paragraphs and fill in the middle with gibberish. I'd have two pages full of; Hi my name is Joeboo, the 49ers won by 63, Jerry Rice is dominating, I didn't have relations with that woman, etc. etc..

I got away with it all year, it was legendary. Thought right now would be a good time to share that.

 
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Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?

 
If I had both Klay Thompson and Andrew Wiggins on a team I owned, I would give up 2 Klay Thompsons before I would give up Wiggins.

Not sure what the hell GS is thinking with their insistence on keeping a totally replaceable player who is about to be way overpaid.

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
I think we need to see the final rosters before even beginning to make predictions... If Love lands in Cleveland, that changes a lot and Minn becomes the overwhelming championship favorite :)

 
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Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
Plus, if they keep Wiggins, they'll have some cap flexibility to potentially add another free agent in the 2015 offseason. That adds another variable that you can't really predict.

 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
Plus, if they keep Wiggins, they'll have some cap flexibility to potentially add another free agent in the 2015 offseason. That adds another variable that you can't really predict.
They aren't going to have significant cap space next year. LeBron + Irving's Extension + Bennett + Wiggins + Thompson puts them at the cap.

 
Some of you dudes gotta dial back your posts length. This is not long form. None of you have anything that interesting to say.

 
I had a teacher in high school who I determined only read the first and last two paragraphs of every essay written. By mid-year I would write the most crisp and smooth #### you have ever read in the these paragraphs and fill in the middle with gibberish. I'd have two pages full of; Hi my name is Joeboo, the 49ers won by 63, Jerry Rice is dominating, I didn't have relations with that woman, etc. etc..

I got away with it all year, it was legendary. Thought right now would be a good time to share that.
I think I had this guy too.

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
I don't know what a "heck of a time" means, but I think the Cavs are basically as good as the Heat from the last few years without Love. They can be beaten by a really good series by a really good team just like SA did this year, but I think they've got as good of a shot as any 1 team as constructed today.

I agree with your point that "its hard". I don't agree that the Cavs need Love to be favorites to at least make the finals. Lebron is worth that much IMO.

 
I had a teacher in high school who I determined only read the first and last two paragraphs of every essay written. By mid-year I would write the most crisp and smooth #### you have ever read in the these paragraphs and fill in the middle with gibberish. I'd have two pages full of; Hi my name is Joeboo, the 49ers won by 63, Jerry Rice is dominating, I didn't have relations with that woman, etc. etc..

I got away with it all year, it was legendary. Thought right now would be a good time to share that.
I think I had this guy too.
:hifive:

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
Plus, if they keep Wiggins, they'll have some cap flexibility to potentially add another free agent in the 2015 offseason. That adds another variable that you can't really predict.
Yup, that's another reason I wouldn't trade Wiggins if I were the Cavs. Although my guess is that it's mostly up to LeBron.

Another huge variable for the Cavs that I haven't seen mentioned at all is that Irving isn't exactly an Ironman. He's played 51, 59 and 71 games in his first three NBA seasons and he also missed most of his only season at Duke with a foot injury. They're probably not going to be playing James, Irving and Love/Wiggins together all year.

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
Agreed. I think if Wiggins develops (he is a really special talent and can be a superstar as well) and Kyrie goes to the next level they can be special. That is what it all revolves around. I also like Waiters. They have a great young core if they pan out.

I just can see some people will get ahead of themselves with "now they got Mike Miller and James Jones". They are not going to decide their fate at all. They if anything are along for the ride.

 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with
This is where your failing to see anything. He was not vital. He barely played. He had one shining moment in a series that was well in hand. He was going to cost 17 million dollars.

I don't disagree with the move at the time nor now. Mike Miller would have made no difference in this years results. None.

 
Do you think LeBron's "reaching out" to Love to let him know he'd like to play on the same team as Love went something like this:

"Hey, I'd love to have you as a teammate."

"Dude, I'm like totally in, bro."

"Can you last one more year in Minnesota? Give me a year to whip these kids into shape, keep Wiggins here, and we can spend the next 5 years after this one making runs at titles."

"Bro, that's harsh. Have you spent a winter up here? It sucks, dude."

"I know, but tell them you only want to come here. At some point, make it clear to EVERYBODY that you'll only sign an extension with Cleveland. Maybe we can get you cheap before the deadline, then. Otherwise, we're stacked next year."

"I'll think on it, bro. Hey, do they have In n Outs in Ohio?"

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
I think we need to see the final rosters before even beginning to make predictions... If Love lands in Cleveland, that changes a lot and Minn becomes the overwhelming championship favorite :)
Agreed 100% too early. And yeah if Love ends up there...big difference.

 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with
This is where your failing to see anything. He was not vital. He barely played. He had one shining moment in a series that was well in hand. He was going to cost 17 million dollars.

I don't disagree with the move at the time nor now. Mike Miller would have made no difference in this years results. None.
I disagree. I think Miller was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Doubt he would have made the difference, but he would have kept them closer - there is a reason his services were in demand by several teams. And of course the owner releasing him to save $ when his already underpaid superstars are taking paycuts in order to keep talent at the margins was a slap in the face.

 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with
This is where your failing to see anything. He was not vital. He barely played. He had one shining moment in a series that was well in hand. He was going to cost 17 million dollars.I don't disagree with the move at the time nor now. Mike Miller would have made no difference in this years results. None.
in the seven game series vs the Spurs, Miller absolutely won them a game, that's a vital role player. You think LeBron cares that a billionaire had to go over the luxury tax a little after winning two titles? Cutting Miller was a selfish move done in the best interests of the owners bottom line and not in the best interest of the team.
 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with
This is where your failing to see anything. He was not vital. He barely played. He had one shining moment in a series that was well in hand. He was going to cost 17 million dollars.

I don't disagree with the move at the time nor now. Mike Miller would have made no difference in this years results. None.
I disagree. I think Miller was the straw that broke the camel's back.

Doubt he would have made the difference, but he would have kept them closer - there is a reason his services were in demand by several teams. And of course the owner releasing him to save $ when his already underpaid superstars are taking paycuts in order to keep talent at the margins was a slap in the face.
If Mike Miller was the straw that broke the Camels back after 4 straight Finals and 2 titles.....then seriosuly good riddance. Seriously. Imagine Lebron telling Dwyane Wade "yo bro, not having Mike Miller really broke the straw man, not having that 4 ppg in the post season was a death nail and why we lost the Finals this year". This is laughable. Mike Miller was not going to be paid 17MM for a guy who over the course of 3 year post season (forget regular season let's talk playoffs) Heat career averaged 13 minutes a game and 3.73 points a game.

GTFOH.

Enough on Mike Miller breaking the camels back. That is freaking horse ***t. Anyway it does not matter. This is for the talk shows to talk about so they can wring every ounce of juice from this story they can keep talking about it for as long as they can. But anyone with an ounce of basketball sense knows Mike Miller is not worth 17MM a year. That freed up a ton of money to get more players. If anything it was a morsel...a pubic hair in the total package of why he left.

It did not work out. But it would not of worked out with Miller too this year vs The Spurs. Lebron knows this. Come on. They were a better team this year.

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
Plus, if they keep Wiggins, they'll have some cap flexibility to potentially add another free agent in the 2015 offseason. That adds another variable that you can't really predict.
Yup, that's another reason I wouldn't trade Wiggins if I were the Cavs. Although my guess is that it's mostly up to LeBron.

Another huge variable for the Cavs that I haven't seen mentioned at all is that Irving isn't exactly an Ironman. He's played 51, 59 and 71 games in his first three NBA seasons and he also missed most of his only season at Duke with a foot injury. They're probably not going to be playing James, Irving and Love/Wiggins together all year.
Synergies. Irving's current usage is 29%. No way he can sustain that but also no way he gets close to that with LeBron. LeBron can take most of the physical play at the rim. And team as constructed with more shooting should help him. But if you are worried about that, Love seems like a better piece. You'll need to replace Kyrie's offense and you can also run an offense through Love. Irving was always compared to Paul coming in. I still think it's overblown but Kyrie will likely have to mold his game after Paul to remain healthy. But I think Wiggins is going to struggle offensively right away. If they somehow keep him and get Love, their fast break offense might be the best ever but outside of the break, I don't think you want Wiggins being a focal point on offense.

As mentioned, the cap flexibility is overstated bc of Kyrie's extension and first picks make a good chunk of money. But those assets are more tradeable than Love.

 
Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
Plus, if they keep Wiggins, they'll have some cap flexibility to potentially add another free agent in the 2015 offseason. That adds another variable that you can't really predict.
Yup, that's another reason I wouldn't trade Wiggins if I were the Cavs. Although my guess is that it's mostly up to LeBron.

Another huge variable for the Cavs that I haven't seen mentioned at all is that Irving isn't exactly an Ironman. He's played 51, 59 and 71 games in his first three NBA seasons and he also missed most of his only season at Duke with a foot injury. They're probably not going to be playing James, Irving and Love/Wiggins together all year.
Non-issue until they trade Waiters, he filled in nicely for him last year.

 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with
This is where your failing to see anything. He was not vital. He barely played. He had one shining moment in a series that was well in hand. He was going to cost 17 million dollars.I don't disagree with the move at the time nor now. Mike Miller would have made no difference in this years results. None.
in the seven game series vs the Spurs, Miller absolutely won them a game, that's a vital role player. You think LeBron cares that a billionaire had to go over the luxury tax a little after winning two titles? Cutting Miller was a selfish move done in the best interests of the owners bottom line and not in the best interest of the team.
We will agree to disagree. And for the record Arison has turned a profit once in the 4 years Lebron was here. A fact proven by numbers. The Heat has been in the red 3 out of the last 4 years.

Miller had some moments. But not 17MM worth. Sorry. He could barely walk. In hindsight should they have kept him? Who knows...but to start focusing on this...a guy who averaged what he averaged as a real back breaker in Lebron's decision.....naaaa. No way. And like I said if so...after 4 straight Finals? Good riddance then. You do not let lunatics control the asylum. Gilbert is falling all over himself after calling him a quitter and horrible example for kids. I think Gilbert looks like an idiot not Lebron. And if he gives Lebron all the power again (which he will) we saw how that worked out the first time around. I respect the Heat for not caving into a superstars every single whim and demand...I don't care who they are. Even in basketball. No one player (not named Jordan) is above the entire organization. Lebron had to give some money back so he could play with Wade and Bosh. Period. He wanted a max deal this time. Well he would have got whatever he wanted here in that regard and his two buddies were willing to take a discount again to make it happen.

But no...it's about Mike Miller that broke the straw....oh please. It was so much bigger than that. It was a business decision not so much a basketball decision. Lebron is thinking way ahead of this year and next. Way ahead. In fact Cleveland's future does look bright granted if their youth pans out. But if they get love and sign him to big dollars like they will have too, between Lebron, Kyrie and Love they will be Heat 2,0. The question will be is can Kyrie and Love be as good as Bosh and Wade were? Who knows right now. Time will tell. And then they have to find cheaper role players like the Heat. It looks and sounds eerily similar to the Heat if they go in the Love direction. If they stick with Wiggins and the youth...long term they will be in much better shape. trading Wiggins and some other young assets is a risk. Either way Lebron can't lose.

His essay made sure of that. It was brilliant!!!!

GO HEAT!!!!!!

 
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Who is calling for a Cavs title this year? I think you're getting the Love rumors mixed up with The Letter.
Maybe I am.

Is it generally agreed in this thread if Love is not going to the Cav's they will have a heck of a time winning one over the next 2 years?
Not sure why you suddenly jumped from next season to the next two years. I think most of us would agree that they'd have a hard time winning the title this coming season, but 2015-16 is a totally different story. Wiggins could be an all-star by then, or he could still be lost and overwhelmed. Impossible to predict.
Plus, if they keep Wiggins, they'll have some cap flexibility to potentially add another free agent in the 2015 offseason. That adds another variable that you can't really predict.
Yup, that's another reason I wouldn't trade Wiggins if I were the Cavs. Although my guess is that it's mostly up to LeBron.

Another huge variable for the Cavs that I haven't seen mentioned at all is that Irving isn't exactly an Ironman. He's played 51, 59 and 71 games in his first three NBA seasons and he also missed most of his only season at Duke with a foot injury. They're probably not going to be playing James, Irving and Love/Wiggins together all year.
Non-issue until they trade Waiters, he filled in nicely for him last year.
I like Waiters a lot. He is a nice young SG. I don't think they can get Love without Wiggins or Waiters in a deal...no way. Otherwise the Wolves are are on drugs.

What is the latest rumors on a Love deal with Cleveland? Will they take Waiters, Bennett and number ones? If I were the Wolves I would be patient.

 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with
This is where your failing to see anything. He was not vital. He barely played. He had one shining moment in a series that was well in hand. He was going to cost 17 million dollars.I don't disagree with the move at the time nor now. Mike Miller would have made no difference in this years results. None.
in the seven game series vs the Spurs, Miller absolutely won them a game, that's a vital role player. You think LeBron cares that a billionaire had to go over the luxury tax a little after winning two titles? Cutting Miller was a selfish move done in the best interests of the owners bottom line and not in the best interest of the team.
We will agree to disagree. And for the record Arison has turned a profit once in the 4 years Lebron was here. A fact proven by numbers. The Heat has been in the red 3 out of the last 4 years.

Miller had some moments. But not 17MM worth. Sorry. He could barely walk. In hindsight should they have kept him? Who knows...but to start focusing on this...a guy who averaged what he averaged as a real back breaker in Lebron's decision.....naaaa. No way. And like I said if so...after 4 straight Finals? Good riddance then. You do not let lunatics control the asylum. Gilbert is falling all over himself after calling him a quitter and horrible example for kids. I think Gilbert looks like an idiot not Lebron. And if he gives Lebron all the power again (which he will) we saw how that worked out the first time around. I respect the Heat for not caving into a superstars every single whim and demand...I don't care who they are. Even in basketball. No one player (not named Jordan) is above the entire organization. Lebron had to give some money back so he could play with Wade and Bosh. Period. He wanted a max deal this time. Well he would have got whatever he wanted here in that regard and his two buddies were willing to take a discount again to make it happen.

But no...it's about Mike Miller that broke the straw....oh please. It was so much bigger than that. It was a business decision not so much a basketball decision. Lebron is thinking way ahead of this year and next. Way ahead. In fact Cleveland's future does look bright granted if their youth pans out. But if they get love and sign him to big dollars like they will have too, between Lebron, Kyrie and Love they will be Heat 2,0. The question will be is can Kyrie and Love be as good as Bosh and Wade were? Who knows right now. Time will tell. And then they have to find cheaper role players like the Heat. It looks and sounds eerily similar to the Heat if they go in the Love direction. If they stick with Wiggins and the youth...long term they will be in much better shape. trading Wiggins and some other young assets is a risk. Either way Lebron can't lose.

His essay made sure of that. It was brilliant!!!!

GO HEAT!!!!!!
seems like poor ownership to me

 
Mickey didn't turn a profit with the Heat 3 out of 4 years with four title runs in a row and Lebron ####### James? Or you are not turning a profit = being in the tax?

 
Omg that Todem novel he just posted.

Miami was cheap, LeBron, wade, bosh sacrificed millions to play in Miami and heat owner cut Mike Miller simply to save a few million dollars. That is pretty ridiculous considering the success those three brought to Miami that he would be penny pinching with a vital role player whom LeBron obviously loved playing with
This is where your failing to see anything. He was not vital. He barely played. He had one shining moment in a series that was well in hand. He was going to cost 17 million dollars.I don't disagree with the move at the time nor now. Mike Miller would have made no difference in this years results. None.
in the seven game series vs the Spurs, Miller absolutely won them a game, that's a vital role player. You think LeBron cares that a billionaire had to go over the luxury tax a little after winning two titles? Cutting Miller was a selfish move done in the best interests of the owners bottom line and not in the best interest of the team.
We will agree to disagree. And for the record Arison has turned a profit once in the 4 years Lebron was here. A fact proven by numbers. The Heat has been in the red 3 out of the last 4 years.

Miller had some moments. But not 17MM worth. Sorry. He could barely walk. In hindsight should they have kept him? Who knows...but to start focusing on this...a guy who averaged what he averaged as a real back breaker in Lebron's decision.....naaaa. No way. And like I said if so...after 4 straight Finals? Good riddance then. You do not let lunatics control the asylum. Gilbert is falling all over himself after calling him a quitter and horrible example for kids. I think Gilbert looks like an idiot not Lebron. And if he gives Lebron all the power again (which he will) we saw how that worked out the first time around. I respect the Heat for not caving into a superstars every single whim and demand...I don't care who they are. Even in basketball. No one player (not named Jordan) is above the entire organization. Lebron had to give some money back so he could play with Wade and Bosh. Period. He wanted a max deal this time. Well he would have got whatever he wanted here in that regard and his two buddies were willing to take a discount again to make it happen.

But no...it's about Mike Miller that broke the straw....oh please. It was so much bigger than that. It was a business decision not so much a basketball decision. Lebron is thinking way ahead of this year and next. Way ahead. In fact Cleveland's future does look bright granted if their youth pans out. But if they get love and sign him to big dollars like they will have too, between Lebron, Kyrie and Love they will be Heat 2,0. The question will be is can Kyrie and Love be as good as Bosh and Wade were? Who knows right now. Time will tell. And then they have to find cheaper role players like the Heat. It looks and sounds eerily similar to the Heat if they go in the Love direction. If they stick with Wiggins and the youth...long term they will be in much better shape. trading Wiggins and some other young assets is a risk. Either way Lebron can't lose.

His essay made sure of that. It was brilliant!!!!

GO HEAT!!!!!!
seems like poor ownership to me
:suds:

 
Not only did Arison amnesty Miller, but they didn't even use the freaking MLE last offseason to add some pieces. He flat out cheaped out after winning 2 straight titles. Flat out. There is no disputing this.

And no freaking way Arison lost money on the Heat 3 of the 4 Lebron years. That's more paper losses BS that the owners used in the CBA negotiations to screw the players. Nonsense.

 
I like Waiters a lot. He is a nice young SG. I don't think they can get Love without Wiggins or Waiters in a deal...no way. Otherwise the Wolves are are on drugs.

What is the latest rumors on a Love deal with Cleveland? Will they take Waiters, Bennett and number ones? If I were the Wolves I would be patient.
I think Waiters is under rated and I'd bet the Cavs do too. Problem is him and Kyrie are oil and water, so Waiters has gotta go. If Love doesn't get dealt before the season, Waiters will have 4 months to show how good he can be when not sharing the court with Kyrie, restoring his value. Still, even with Kyrie's fragile stature, Waiters needs to go. They could/should/maybe can play together for a bit to get Dion dealt, but expecting that to hold long term is crazy.

Whatever the Cavs do to fix their bigs problem, Waiters will probably be the piece to get it done.

 

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