NBA Top 5 All-Time... (1 Viewer)

[sn0mm1s]

I am curious about your age groups relative to your rankings. What era did you grow up in and does that influence your rankings?

Are those ranking MJ so high old enough to watch Wilt vs Russell or even Bird v Magic?

Do you rank Lebron so high because he is the NBA you know?

In general, in basketball and football I put an asterisk next to players who played the majority of their careers before 1975. The competition is just too watered down compared to the level of the 1980s on where athletes were truly professional (they weren't selling cars in the offseason to make ends meet), the leagues were very integrated, there was money and fame to be had (to actually draw the athletes), and PEDs had hit the scene (more applicable to football). Guys like Jim Brown, Wilt Chamberlain, Don Hutson, etc. etc. would never replicate their dominance in a modern league. That isn't to say they weren't world class athletes in their day - it was just the range of competition they faced was much lesser on average.

 

[Kev4029]

Not in order

Tier 1:

Bill Russell

Kareem Abdul Jabbar

Magic Johnson

Michael Jordan

Kobe Bryant

Tim Duncan

Tier 2:

Wilt Chamberlain

Larry Bird

Hakeem Olajuwon

Shaquille O'Neal

Lebron James

Tier 3:

Oscar Robertson

Jerry West

I miss you.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

I am curious about your age groups relative to your rankings. What era did you grow up in and does that influence your rankings?

Are those ranking MJ so high old enough to watch Wilt vs Russell or even Bird v Magic?

Do you rank Lebron so high because he is the NBA you know?

Wilt and Russell are before my time. I'm trusting my limited film viewing of them, others' eyewitness accounts, and the numbers.

Bucks-era Kareem is also before my time.

I'm old enough to remember watching the Michigan State v Indiana State final, so I knew who Magic and Bird were before they were pros.

If LeBron plays a full season next year, he will have played more career games than Magic and Bird, so even though it's possible LeBron has a lot of basketball ahead of him, there's enough history there to start inserting him within it. On paper, LeBron's been the best player in the league for the last 6-7 seasons, a level of excellence we haven't seen much in the history of the game. If anything, folks are penalizing him for getting to the Finals and losing, as if that is a worse outcome than losing early in the playoffs or missing them altogether.

 

[Kev4029]

Kidding aside Horry should be strongly considered for the top 5 list of players you want taking a game winning shot.

As long as he is wide open and the rest of players in consideration are covered.

 

[B Maverick]

No consideration for Robert Horry?

Russell is the original Robert Horry.

is this for real?

 

[Koya]

I am curious about your age groups relative to your rankings. What era did you grow up in and does that influence your rankings?

Are those ranking MJ so high old enough to watch Wilt vs Russell or even Bird v Magic?

Do you rank Lebron so high because he is the NBA you know?

In general, in basketball and football I put an asterisk next to players who played the majority of their careers before 1975. The competition is just too watered down compared to the level of the 1980s on where athletes were truly professional (they weren't selling cars in the offseason to make ends meet), the leagues were very integrated, there was money and fame to be had (to actually draw the athletes), and PEDs had hit the scene (more applicable to football). Guys like Jim Brown, Wilt Chamberlain, Don Hutson, etc. etc. would never replicate their dominance in a modern league. That isn't to say they weren't world class athletes in their day - it was just the range of competition they faced was much lesser on average.

It cuts both ways, however. When you had a league with a handful of teams and you had to be Wilt facing Russell so many times and then the same with say a Nate Thormond, that's a hell of a lot tougher competition than Shaq in many of his prime / experienced years. There has never in my life EVER been a Wilt Chamberlain. Guys have caught up to Brown physically perhaps. But we've never seen a 7'2" guy who can run track, high jump, pass, be fluid. Lebron is our physical freak, but even he isn't 7+. Wilt would KILL today. And imagine he had modern training and health knowledge? Scary.

 

[Chaka]

No consideration for Robert Horry?

Russell is the original Robert Horry.

is this for real?

Russell gets a ton of love for a career 44% shooter (56% from the stripe).

 

[sn0mm1s]

I am curious about your age groups relative to your rankings. What era did you grow up in and does that influence your rankings?

Are those ranking MJ so high old enough to watch Wilt vs Russell or even Bird v Magic?

Do you rank Lebron so high because he is the NBA you know?

In general, in basketball and football I put an asterisk next to players who played the majority of their careers before 1975. The competition is just too watered down compared to the level of the 1980s on where athletes were truly professional (they weren't selling cars in the offseason to make ends meet), the leagues were very integrated, there was money and fame to be had (to actually draw the athletes), and PEDs had hit the scene (more applicable to football). Guys like Jim Brown, Wilt Chamberlain, Don Hutson, etc. etc. would never replicate their dominance in a modern league. That isn't to say they weren't world class athletes in their day - it was just the range of competition they faced was much lesser on average.

It cuts both ways, however. When you had a league with a handful of teams and you had to be Wilt facing Russell so many times and then the same with say a Nate Thormond, that's a hell of a lot tougher competition than Shaq in many of his prime / experienced years.There has never in my life EVER been a Wilt Chamberlain. Guys have caught up to Brown physically perhaps. But we've never seen a 7'2" guy who can run track, high jump, pass, be fluid. Lebron is our physical freak, but even he isn't 7+. Wilt would KILL today. And imagine he had modern training and health knowledge? Scary.

No way, over Wilt's career there were a grand total of 15 other players that were 7'0'' or taller. He played against relative midgets in a time where there was little to no defense and teams chucked the ball (evidence of shots/game and rebounds/game). Shaq, over his career, competed against 161 other players 7'0'' or taller. Wilt doesn't come close to a 50/20 season if he comes into the league the same time as Shaq.

For illustration:

Wilt's rookie year:

Number of other 7 footers - 1

Number of shots/game/team - 109

2pt FG% - .410

Number of rebounds/game/team 74

Shaq's rookie year

Number of other 7 footers - 37

Number of shots/game/team - 86

2pt FG% - .489

Number of rebounds/game/team 43

Again, I am not saying Chamberlain wasn't great (or better than Shaq) but I can't give him the nod over Shaq because the level of competition is night and day different.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Shaq had nights when he went up against the 27th-30th best center in the league as the opposing starter.

When Wilt entered the league, the 27th- best center wasn't good enough to be in the league because there were only 8 teams.

The 7-footer thing is next to meaningless. There have have a ton of 7-footers who were extraordinarily unathletic. The rebounding leader boards are filled with guys under 7 feet tall.

Wilt played 142 games against Russell and 27 games against Kareem. Did Shaq play 171 games against centers as good as Russell or Kareem?

Wilt total rebound numbers were helped by game pace, but his rebound rates adjusted for pace and shooting accuracy hold up against any great rebounder in league history.

Wilt was also extraordinarily fast for his size and a great passer. The 7-foot statues from Shaw'a era who are being phased out of today's game would have been dominated by Wilt pulling them up to the high post and passing/cutting right by them.

There are compelling arguments to be made for Shaq over Wilt, but "let's see how Wilt would have done against Zydrunas Ilgauskas and Michael Olowokandi" isn't one of them.

 

[Abraham]

I think we are near another big man renaissance. Davis and embid have the potential to bring the game back inside a bit.

 

[sn0mm1s]

Shaq had nights when he went up against the 27th-30th best center in the league as the opposing starter.

When Wilt entered the league, the 27th- best center wasn't good enough to be in the league because there were only 8 teams.

The 7-footer thing is next to meaningless. There have have a ton of 7-footers who were extraordinarily unathletic. The rebounding leader boards are filled with guys under 7 feet tall.

Wilt played 142 games against Russell and 27 games against Kareem. Did Shaq play 171 games against centers as good as Russell or Kareem?

Wilt total rebound numbers were helped by game pace, but his rebound rates adjusted for pace and shooting accuracy hold up against any great rebounder in league history.

Wilt was also extraordinarily fast for his size and a great passer. The 7-foot statues from Shaw'a era who are being phased out of today's game would have been dominated by Wilt pulling them up to the high post and passing/cutting right by them.

This just isn't true. The number of people playing basketball now is *huge* the player pool dwarfs the pool back in the 1950s. Not only that - the money and fame is there to draw top athletes. There is no such thing as an unathletic 7 footer in the NBA. Yes, the rate/pace hold up as far as rebounds --- but the competition does not.

Shaq played

26 games against Ewing

20 games against Olajuwon

16 games against Mourning

23 games against Robinson

32 games against Duncan

21 games against Sabonis

29 games against Nowitzki

13 games against Ming

That is 180 games against either HOFers or locks to make the HOF

Then you have another:

24 games against Mutombo

12 games against Howard

Shaq played against plenty of great centers.

 

[Righetti]

Slightly off topic but how the hell did guys average 25+ rebounds back 50 years ago? Were there more shots taken, did guards and forwards just not rebound, where shooting percentages lower leading to more rebounding opportunities or were guys like Wilt missing a lot of point blank shots and grabbing their own rebounds?

A guy who gets 20 boards in a single game today is all over sportscenter

 

[Koya]

Slightly off topic but how the hell did guys average 25+ rebounds back 50 years ago? Were there more shots taken, did guards and forwards just not rebound, where shooting percentages lower leading to more rebounding opportunities or were guys like Wilt missing a lot of point blank shots and grabbing their own rebounds?

A guy who gets 20 boards in a single game today is all over sportscenter

Fast pace plus poorer overall shooting plus disparity in talent certainly are part of the he equation. While Wilt went up against monsters at center (someone put up who Shaq played against, what about wilt with Russell, Kareem, Thurmond... All of whom amongst the best defensive players at their positions ever), it seems that the athleticism outside of those superstars really dropped. But guys like Elgin Baylor down the line all had just stupid lines for a while.

 

[Gr00vus]

Nowitzki?

 

[Gr00vus]

Along with Russell and Kareem, Wilt had to deal with Unseld, Cowens, Thurmond, Bellamy, Reed, Lanier and Elmore Smith among others. It wasn't a series of incompetent midgets he was playing against.

 

[DrJ]

I am curious about your age groups relative to your rankings. What era did you grow up in and does that influence your rankings?

Are those ranking MJ so high old enough to watch Wilt vs Russell or even Bird v Magic?

Do you rank Lebron so high because he is the NBA you know?

Wilt and Russell are before my time. I'm trusting my limited film viewing of them, others' eyewitness accounts, and the numbers.

Bucks-era Kareem is also before my time.

I'm old enough to remember watching the Michigan State v Indiana State final, so I knew who Magic and Bird were before they were pros.

If LeBron plays a full season next year, he will have played more career games than Magic and Bird, so even though it's possible LeBron has a lot of basketball ahead of him, there's enough history there to start inserting him within it. On paper, LeBron's been the best player in the league for the last 6-7 seasons, a level of excellence we haven't seen much in the history of the game. If anything, folks are penalizing him for getting to the Finals and losing, as if that is a worse outcome than losing early in the playoffs or missing them altogether.

No, losing in the 2nd round of the playoffs in a weak eastern conference was worse when he did that. But in both cases he did fail to win, and looked bad during significant portions of his failure to win, so there's some penalty for both.

 

[Peyton Marino]

if we're going to do these tiers with over ten players involved, i think iverson should at least be mentioned.

 

[Koya]

if we're going to do these tiers with over ten players involved, i think iverson should at least be mentioned.

Well, there you go.

Carry on.

 

[Gawain]

if we're going to do these tiers with over ten players involved, i think iverson should at least be mentioned.

OK, Iverson belongs no where near a best of all time with over 50 players involved.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

This just isn't true. The number of people playing basketball now is *huge* the player pool dwarfs the pool back in the 1950s. Not only that - the money and fame is there to draw top athletes. There is no such thing as an unathletic 7 footer in the NBA. Yes, the rate/pace hold up as far as rebounds --- but the competition does not.

Shaq played

26 games against Ewing

20 games against Olajuwon

16 games against Mourning

23 games against Robinson

32 games against Duncan

21 games against Sabonis

29 games against Nowitzki

13 games against Ming

That is 180 games against either HOFers or locks to make the HOF

Then you have another:

24 games against Mutombo

12 games against Howard

Shaq played against plenty of great centers.

For the record.... Olajuwon is 6'10" (measured at 6'10" at the 1984 NBA draft camp). Mourning, Duncan, and Howard are listed at 6'11". So if you're counting those guys as 7-footers, you are incorrect to do so.

How many of those players would you consider to be greater than Kareem or Russell?

If Wilt is also allowed to count games against HOF centers not as good as Kareem or Russell... add 70 against Walt Bellamy, 47 against Nate Thurmond, 55 against Willis Reed, 19 against Wes Unseld, 16 against Bob Lanier, 14 against Dave Cowens... OMG, that's almost 400 games against HOF centers in career that including playoffs was less than 1200.

 

[Koya]

This just isn't true. The number of people playing basketball now is *huge* the player pool dwarfs the pool back in the 1950s. Not only that - the money and fame is there to draw top athletes. There is no such thing as an unathletic 7 footer in the NBA. Yes, the rate/pace hold up as far as rebounds --- but the competition does not.

Shaq played

26 games against Ewing

20 games against Olajuwon

16 games against Mourning

23 games against Robinson

32 games against Duncan

21 games against Sabonis

29 games against Nowitzki

13 games against Ming

That is 180 games against either HOFers or locks to make the HOF

Then you have another:

24 games against Mutombo

12 games against Howard

Shaq played against plenty of great centers.

For the record.... Olajuwon is 6'10" (measured at 6'10" at the 1984 NBA draft camp). Mourning, Duncan, and Howard are listed at 6'11". So if you're counting those guys as 7-footers, you are incorrect to do so.

How many of those players would you consider to be greater than Kareem or Russell?

If Wilt is also allowed to count games against HOF centers not as good as Kareem or Russell... add 70 against Walt Bellamy, 47 against Nate Thurmond, 55 against Willis Reed, 19 against Wes Unseld, 16 against Bob Lanier, 14 against Dave Cowens... OMG, that's almost 400 games against HOF centers in career that including playoffs was less than 1200.

This just isn't true. The number of people playing basketball now is *huge* the player pool dwarfs the pool back in the 1950s. Not only that - the money and fame is there to draw top athletes. There is no such thing as an unathletic 7 footer in the NBA. Yes, the rate/pace hold up as far as rebounds --- but the competition does not.

Shaq played

26 games against Ewing

20 games against Olajuwon

16 games against Mourning

23 games against Robinson

32 games against Duncan

21 games against Sabonis

29 games against Nowitzki

13 games against Ming

That is 180 games against either HOFers or locks to make the HOF

Then you have another:

24 games against Mutombo

12 games against Howard

Shaq played against plenty of great centers.

For the record.... Olajuwon is 6'10" (measured at 6'10" at the 1984 NBA draft camp). Mourning, Duncan, and Howard are listed at 6'11". So if you're counting those guys as 7-footers, you are incorrect to do so.

How many of those players would you consider to be greater than Kareem or Russell?

If Wilt is also allowed to count games against HOF centers not as good as Kareem or Russell... add 70 against Walt Bellamy, 47 against Nate Thurmond, 55 against Willis Reed, 19 against Wes Unseld, 16 against Bob Lanier, 14 against Dave Cowens... OMG, that's almost 400 games against HOF centers in career that including playoffs was less than 1200.

This just isn't true. The number of people playing basketball now is *huge* the player pool dwarfs the pool back in the 1950s. Not only that - the money and fame is there to draw top athletes. There is no such thing as an unathletic 7 footer in the NBA. Yes, the rate/pace hold up as far as rebounds --- but the competition does not.

Shaq played

26 games against Ewing

20 games against Olajuwon

16 games against Mourning

23 games against Robinson

32 games against Duncan

21 games against Sabonis

29 games against Nowitzki

13 games against Ming

That is 180 games against either HOFers or locks to make the HOF

Then you have another:

24 games against Mutombo

12 games against Howard

Shaq played against plenty of great centers.

For the record.... Olajuwon is 6'10" (measured at 6'10" at the 1984 NBA draft camp). Mourning, Duncan, and Howard are listed at 6'11". So if you're counting those guys as 7-footers, you are incorrect to do so.

How many of those players would you consider to be greater than Kareem or Russell?

If Wilt is also allowed to count games against HOF centers not as good as Kareem or Russell... add 70 against Walt Bellamy, 47 against Nate Thurmond, 55 against Willis Reed, 19 against Wes Unseld, 16 against Bob Lanier, 14 against Dave Cowens... OMG, that's almost 400 games against HOF centers in career that including playoffs was less than 1200.

Wilt would be UNSTOPPABLE today. Seriously. Wtf could come CLOSE to guarding him?

And had he played in Shaqs era, going against a list of guys where good as some were (Olajuwon, Robinson, Ewing) didn't TOUCH the guys you listed above.

I always wondered why, with the increasingly better and better athlete, we lost the great uber athletic big guy. Hakeem is the last one that's close, but he was almost like a huge small man with his agility. Other than that, what happened to the Wil and jabbars? To not have had one when everyone else gets bigger and stronger seems odd.

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Along with Russell and Kareem, Wilt had to deal with Unseld, Cowens, Thurmond, Bellamy, Reed, Lanier and Elmore Smith among others. It wasn't a series of incompetent midgets he was playing against.

Thurmond, Bellamy, and Lanier were all listed at 6'11", and those measurements are probably accurate. Unseld (at least 6'11" with the afro) was a tank - he probably played heavier than guys like Mourning and Mutombo.

 

[Raider Nation]

Along with Russell and Kareem, Wilt had to deal with Unseld, Cowens, Thurmond, Bellamy, Reed, Lanier and Elmore Smith among others. It wasn't a series of incompetent midgets he was playing against.

Thurmond, Bellamy, and Lanier were all listed at 6'11", and those measurements are probably accurate. Unseld (at least 6'11" with the afro) was a tank - he probably played heavier than guys like Mourning and Mutombo.

Artis Gilmore was no day at the beach.

Edit: n/m... Big Artis was still in the ABA when Wilt was finishing up.

 

[Pots]

1. Jordan

2. Wilt

3. Kareem

4. Bird

5. Duncan

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Wilt

Jordan

Kareem

Bird

Magic

 

[sn0mm1s]

This just isn't true. The number of people playing basketball now is *huge* the player pool dwarfs the pool back in the 1950s. Not only that - the money and fame is there to draw top athletes. There is no such thing as an unathletic 7 footer in the NBA. Yes, the rate/pace hold up as far as rebounds --- but the competition does not.

Shaq played

26 games against Ewing

20 games against Olajuwon

16 games against Mourning

23 games against Robinson

32 games against Duncan

21 games against Sabonis

29 games against Nowitzki

13 games against Ming

That is 180 games against either HOFers or locks to make the HOF

Then you have another:

24 games against Mutombo

12 games against Howard

Shaq played against plenty of great centers.

For the record.... Olajuwon is 6'10" (measured at 6'10" at the 1984 NBA draft camp). Mourning, Duncan, and Howard are listed at 6'11". So if you're counting those guys as 7-footers, you are incorrect to do so.

How many of those players would you consider to be greater than Kareem or Russell?

If Wilt is also allowed to count games against HOF centers not as good as Kareem or Russell... add 70 against Walt Bellamy, 47 against Nate Thurmond, 55 against Willis Reed, 19 against Wes Unseld, 16 against Bob Lanier, 14 against Dave Cowens... OMG, that's almost 400 games against HOF centers in career that including playoffs was less than 1200.

Where did I say they were 7 ft? I was responding to the "Shaq played against nobody". Also, in early years of a league the number of HOFs is a much higher percentage. You see this across all sports. The bar is much lower than when the sport matures. Those players' stats aren't nearly as impressive when you realize that teams were chucking up 20%+ more shots per game and missing even more. Wilt only played against one other 7 ft who made the HOF - and didn't exactly dominate.

This is the same reason you see guys like Gale Sayers and 1/2 the starting lineup for the Packers get inducted - neither of which would happen in the modern era.

I don't consider any of those guys greater than Kareem but I think they are equally as good as Russell and better than anyone else Wilt played against.

 

[pizzatyme]

MJ

Kareem

Russell

Wilt

Oscar

LeBron

Bird

Magic

West

Duncan

Kobe

Shaq

Malone

I think it's too difficult to narrow it to just 5. A case could be made for any of these guys IMO.

 

[the moops]

MJ

Kareem

Lebron

Magic

Wilt

Bird

Duncan

Shaq

Russell

Oscar

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

I go

Jordan

Wilt

Oscar

Magic

Kareem

I think

 

[Raider Nation]

if we're going to do these tiers with over ten players involved, i think iverson should at least be mentioned.

Don't sleep on Paul Mokeski, either.

 

[timschochet]

Wilt

LeBron

Shaq

Kareem

Jordan or Duncan

 

[Gawain]

I'm not a Kobe fan. I think his "clutchness" is overrated and that he's basically McGrady with a better publicist, but someone(s) with way too much time on their hands have absolutely killed him on basketball reference's ELO ratings:

Rk 	Player 	Rating 	G 	W 	L 	W/L% 	Last Updated321 	Jimmy Walker 	1414 	18038 	8826 	9212 	.489 	June 16, 2014, 9:33PM322 	Kenyon Martin 	1414 	23008 	11510 	11498 	.500 	June 16, 2014, 11:07PM323 	Nate McMillan 	1414 	20642 	10180 	10462 	.493 	June 16, 2014, 10:27PM324 	P.J. Brown 	1413 	20078 	9940 	10138 	.495 	June 16, 2014, 7:20PM325 	Rony Seikaly 	1410 	20028 	9906 	10122 	.495 	June 16, 2014, 11:53PM326 	Elmore Smith 	1410 	18026 	8850 	9176 	.491 	June 16, 2014, 10:16PM327 	Avery Johnson	1410 	21651 	10740 	10911 	.496 	June 16, 2014, 10:47PM328 	Kobe Bryant 	1409 	57416 	30281 	27135 	.527 	June 16, 2014, 11:49PM329 	Emeka Okafor 	1409 	21993 	10851 	11142 	.493 	June 16, 2014, 10:20PM330 	**** Barnett 	1407 	18493 	9134 	9359 	.494 	June 16, 2014, 10:45PM331 	Jim Jackson 	1407 	19440 	9714 	9726 	.500 	June 16, 2014, 10:25PM332 	Gene Shue 	1403 	17166 	8471 	8695 	.493 	June 16, 2014, 11:22PM333 	Ray Williams 	1401 	16723 	8163 	8560 	.488 	June 16, 2014, 10:39PM334 	Michael Ada 	1401 	18299 	8949 	9350 	.489 	June 16, 2014, 11:55PM335 	Slater Martin* 	1399 	17525 	8683 	8842 	.495 	June 16, 2014, 9:58PM336 	Calvin Natt 	1396 	18222 	8953 	9269 	.491 	June 16, 2014, 10:49PM337 	Vernon Maxw 	1395 	19515 	9610 	9905 	.492 	June 16, 2014, 10:27PM338 	Phil Smith 	1395 	16744 	8166 	8578 	.488 	June 16, 2014, 11:17PM339 	Tom Van Arsd 	1394 	17882 	8828 	9054 	.494 	June 16, 2014, 11:30PM340 	Darrell Griffith 	1392 	17917 	8800 	9117 	.491 	June 16, 2014, 10:26PM

 

[Kev4029]

Wilt

LeBron

Shaq

Kareem

Jordan or Duncan

Wut? Fishing?

 

[Zegras11]

if we're going to do these tiers with over ten players involved, i think iverson should at least be mentioned.

Don't sleep on Paul Mokeski, either.

Crespi High... I played against him. LOL

 

[Zegras11]

I go

Jordan

Wilt

Oscar

Magic

Kareem

I think

this.

 

[Abraham]

Top five without a ring?

Barkley

Malone

Stockton

Baylor

Gervin

 

[Cliff Clavin]

I'm not a Kobe fan. I think his "clutchness" is overrated and that he's basically McGrady with a better publicist, but someone(s) with way too much time on their hands have absolutely killed him on basketball reference's ELO ratings:

Rk Player Rating G W L W/L% Last Updated321 Jimmy Walker 1414 18038 8826 9212 .489 June 16, 2014, 9:33PM322 Kenyon Martin 1414 23008 11510 11498 .500 June 16, 2014, 11:07PM323 Nate McMillan 1414 20642 10180 10462 .493 June 16, 2014, 10:27PM324 P.J. Brown 1413 20078 9940 10138 .495 June 16, 2014, 7:20PM325 Rony Seikaly 1410 20028 9906 10122 .495 June 16, 2014, 11:53PM326 Elmore Smith 1410 18026 8850 9176 .491 June 16, 2014, 10:16PM327 Avery Johnson 1410 21651 10740 10911 .496 June 16, 2014, 10:47PM328 Kobe Bryant 1409 57416 30281 27135 .527 June 16, 2014, 11:49PM329 Emeka Okafor 1409 21993 10851 11142 .493 June 16, 2014, 10:20PM330 **** Barnett 1407 18493 9134 9359 .494 June 16, 2014, 10:45PM331 Jim Jackson 1407 19440 9714 9726 .500 June 16, 2014, 10:25PM332 Gene Shue 1403 17166 8471 8695 .493 June 16, 2014, 11:22PM333 Ray Williams 1401 16723 8163 8560 .488 June 16, 2014, 10:39PM334 Michael Ada 1401 18299 8949 9350 .489 June 16, 2014, 11:55PM335 Slater Martin* 1399 17525 8683 8842 .495 June 16, 2014, 9:58PM336 Calvin Natt 1396 18222 8953 9269 .491 June 16, 2014, 10:49PM337 Vernon Maxw 1395 19515 9610 9905 .492 June 16, 2014, 10:27PM338 Phil Smith 1395 16744 8166 8578 .488 June 16, 2014, 11:17PM339 Tom Van Arsd 1394 17882 8828 9054 .494 June 16, 2014, 11:30PM340 Darrell Griffith 1392 17917 8800 9117 .491 June 16, 2014, 10:26PM

Seems about right. What's the problem here?

 

[Timmay]

No consideration for Robert Horry?

Russell is the original Robert Horry.

is this for real?

It's all about rings isn't it?

 

[timschochet]

Wilt

LeBron

Shaq

Kareem

Jordan or Duncan

Wut? Fishing?

No. Jordan and Duncan are both great great players- I have them ranked even above Magic and Bird. But I have the first 4 higher that's all.

 

[timschochet]

What stuns me is that some of you don't even have Wilt Chamberlain in your top 5. To me, Wilt is CLEARLY the greatest basketball player ever. He is to basketball what Babe Ruth was to baseball. Nobody can touch his individual accomplishments.

 

[Aaron Rudnicki]

Top five without a ring?

Barkley

Malone

Stockton

Baylor

Gervin

Ewing

 

[Peyton Marino]

if we're going to do these tiers with over ten players involved, i think iverson should at least be mentioned.

OK, Iverson belongs no where near a best of all time with over 50 players involved.

well ok then.

 

[sn0mm1s]

What stuns me is that some of you don't even have Wilt Chamberlain in your top 5. To me, Wilt is CLEARLY the greatest basketball player ever. He is to basketball what Babe Ruth was to baseball. Nobody can touch his individual accomplishments.

Easy to rack up individual numbers when the competition is weak. There is a reason that the guys who have put up crazy numbers in relation to their peers - Wilt, Hutson, Jim Brown, Ruth, Cy Young etc. etc. have records that can't be broken - they all played very early in their sports' history.

 

[Abraham]

Top five without a ring?

Barkley

Malone

Stockton

Baylor

Gervin

Ewing

I think Ewing, Reggie, and pistol Pete would be next with iverson not far behind.

 

[timschochet]

What stuns me is that some of you don't even have Wilt Chamberlain in your top 5. To me, Wilt is CLEARLY the greatest basketball player ever. He is to basketball what Babe Ruth was to baseball. Nobody can touch his individual accomplishments.

Easy to rack up individual numbers when the competition is weak. There is a reason that the guys who have put up crazy numbers in relation to their peers - Wilt, Hutson, Jim Brown, Ruth, Cy Young etc. etc. have records that can't be broken - they all played very early in their sports' history.

Cy Young and Don Hutson yes. But Ruth, Wilt, and Jim Brown did NOT play "very early" in their sports' history.

 

[timschochet]

Top five without a ring?

Barkley

Malone

Stockton

Baylor

Gervin

Ewing

I think Ewing, Reggie, and pistol Pete would be next with iverson not far behind.

Steve Nash

 

[Peyton Marino]

Top five without a ring?

Barkley

Malone

Stockton

Baylor

Gervin

Ewing

I think Ewing, Reggie, and pistol Pete would be next with iverson not far behind.

Barkley

Stockton

Baylor

Ewing

Iverson

IMO

 

[TobiasFunke]

What stuns me is that some of you don't even have Wilt Chamberlain in your top 5. To me, Wilt is CLEARLY the greatest basketball player ever. He is to basketball what Babe Ruth was to baseball. Nobody can touch his individual accomplishments.

Easy to rack up individual numbers when the competition is weak. There is a reason that the guys who have put up crazy numbers in relation to their peers - Wilt, Hutson, Jim Brown, Ruth, Cy Young etc. etc. have records that can't be broken - they all played very early in their sports' history.

Cy Young and Don Hutson yes. But Ruth, Wilt, and Jim Brown did NOT play "very early" in their sports' history.

They did in the sense that the poster is talking about- they played against a thinned-out talent pool, almost entirely domestic and in at least once case limited by race as well. It's a very good point about all three, and really about all sports comparisons that go back more than ten years in the case of basketball and 20 or so years in the case of baseball and football (football is still mostly domestic but its popularity has exploded).

 

[Bruce Dickinson]

Where did I say they were 7 ft?

Back when you said that Wilt played in a league with hardly any 7-footers and Shaq did, proving the level of competition was more difficult. The main theme in your against Wilt posted here is the dearth of quality 7-footers he played against, something you've gone back to again and again.

I was responding to the "Shaq played against nobody".

Straw man. No one even came close to saying anything resembling that quote. I pointed out that because of expansion, Wilt played a higher percentage of his games against the other top players of his era, mitigating the effect a bit of the deeper talent era Shaq played in.

Also, in early years of a league the number of HOFs is a much higher percentage. You see this across all sports. The bar is much lower than when the sport matures. Those players' stats aren't nearly as impressive when you realize that teams were chucking up 20%+ more shots per game and missing even more. Wilt only played against one other 7 ft who made the HOF - and didn't exactly dominate.

I only listed the HOF centers Wilt played against because you listed the HOFs/projected HOFs Shaq played against. I was trying to apply your argument equally across the debate. Had I known you felt your argument only applied to the side that the benefits you, I wouldn't have bothered. But while we're here... Sabonis and Yao are historically significant players who didn't have NBA careers consistent with a HOF-quality player born in the USA. By the time Sabonis came over, his health limited him to 20-25 minutes per night, so the Sabonis Shaq played against wasn't the Sabonis who played at a HOF level. If Yao was born in Texas instead of China, he would be remembered as a big dude who put up empty numbers, got hurt a lot, didn't come close to winning anything of significance, and wouldn't be a serious HOF candidate.

So again your bring up the 7-footer thing with Wilt, when most of the great players you listed as obstacles for Shaq either weren't 7-footers (Duncan, Hakeem, Dirk, Howard, Mourning), or didn't play at a HOF level while in the NBA (Sabonis, Yao).

I don't consider any of those guys greater than Kareem but I think they are equally as good as Russell and better than anyone else Wilt played against.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I think if you shared your opinion with a lot of people who have studied that game's history for a meaningful amount of time, your opinion would be met with a lot of resistance.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

George Mikan Down?