NCAA Basketball Thread - 2022-3 Season (2 Viewers)

[Da Guru]

LSU player clobbers 20 on the rebound on Iowa's end. Then fourth foul on Iowa's big for rotating over on help defense. Officials are pure junk in this game.

Awful T on the best player in the world for basically nothing.

Meanwhile Mulkey can do whatever the hell she wants.

Mulkey must be a good coach, but at least 3 times she was at least 5 feet maybe more on the court while Iowa was in their offense, One time she was right next to an Iowa player on the court. Never seen anything like it.

Then she actually grabbed the female ref by the arm during play after a no-call. If you touch a ref you that should an automatic T and ejection. Never seen any BB coach get away with what she did during that game.

 

[ChiefD]

8:20 CST starting time for today's game.

Who is planning this thing? MLB?

What the hell.

 

[TLEF316]

Yeah, 9:20 EST start time is TERRIBLE.

 

[stbugs]

. It seems like 20/20 hindsight to me to say UConn was underseeded.

I believe a few of us said they were under seeded when it was announced.

They could have been a 3 in place of Baylor. Arguing a 2 seed was warranted is a reach though.

They were seeded properly IMHO because they had a bad stretch. That said, I think everyone knew they were better than that stretch and that’s why they had that kenpom rating because they lost most by only a few points.

I will say that I could easily see the argument over K State and Baylor. Both those teams lost their first conference championship game (UConn lost final by 2) and they had 1 good OOC win (Baylor beat UCLA). Marquette beat Baylor by 26. Baylor lost to Iowa St 3 times and UConn blew them out. Common opponent wise UConn was easily better than Baylor.

Also, in conference, KS and Baylor were both 11-7 and 0-1 in tourney. They tied for 3rd. UConn was 13-7 and 1-1 in tourney. UConn was also playing better at the end. I guess I just talked myself into the fact that UConn should have been a 3 seed especially considering common opponents and OOC wins.

 

[Scoresman]

Yeah, 9:20 EST start time is TERRIBLE.

Start times are almost always about getting the most viewers. I don't know if the time changed because a west coast team is in it, but even then I find it hard to believe a 9:30 east coast time would get the most viewers. I would think a 5:15 West coast start, 8:15 east coast would appease almost everyone.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

9:20 start time. Really? Ha. Won’t be watching one second of this game

 

[Galileo]

They were easily a 2 based on efficiency, but I do think they’re more of a 4 based on resume. So I don’t think the committee made a major blunder with them.

It’s really not hindsight.

So then isn't it hindsight when people are saying the committee screwed up and they should have been a 1 or 2 seed?
I agree with everything you said there, the committee has to go off of resume and they were a 3/4 based on those things. I think a 3 woulda been perfect but one spot isn't a big deal.

It probably is. There’s a difference between people who saw qqqthis coming based on efficiency research and people who are just saying it because of how dominant UCONN has been.

Not sure this matters too much, but throwing in some anecdotal data... I run a Pick 6 style pool. 26 out of 60 entries had UConn selected as one of their 6 teams. That is a pretty fair number of folks who at least saw the potential in UConn enough to consider them a great value pick. I guess I share this to point out it is not all hindsight. Many people had some pre-tournament expectations of UConn.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Been watching all these games. Women especially. They gotta go to 6 fouls. Not for basketball reasons. Because the refs blow 4-10 calls per half. That golden guy for FAU had 4 fouls and should have had 2. Similar on some other games like Gonzaga a couple of years ago. The women’s games are worse. No consistency. Phantom fouls. Hacks not being called. Clear fouls being called tie ups. The VT LSU game the lsu squad might as well have beaten the Kitley girl with a bag of rocks. Going to 6 let’s the refs mistakes not pull the best players off the court and let’s then call basically roughing fouls.

 

[The Z Machine]

My Aztec buddy got a ticket for the final. Pumped for the guy and the program and the school.

 

[TLEF316]

Been watching all these games. Women especially. They gotta go to 6 fouls. Not for basketball reasons. Because the refs blow 4-10 calls per half. That golden guy for FAU had 4 fouls and should have had 2. Similar on some other games like Gonzaga a couple of years ago. The women’s games are worse. No consistency. Phantom fouls. Hacks not being called. Clear fouls being called tie ups. The VT LSU game the lsu squad might as well have beaten the Kitley girl with a bag of rocks. Going to 6 let’s the refs mistakes not pull the best players off the court and let’s then call basically roughing fouls.

Couldn't agree more. The officiating is awful across the board and they need to do something to limit the impact. The "Everything is a charge" culture has caused guys to just throw themselves in the path of anyone driving hard to the rim just hoping to get the call. (and for some bizarre reason, the refs fall for it 90% of the time) And those calls change games. I would be 100% in favor of going to 6 fouls.

 

[Jayrod]

I'll allow the complaining of the officiating for the Iowa/LSU women's game.

There was a lot of inconsistency in their foul thresholds. I think they came in wanting to let them play, but then decided it was too physical and decided to rein it in too harshly. They also foolishly backed themselves into a corner by issuing a warning to Iowa about tossing the ball aside, which led to the Clark T. I would be really hesitant to give an official warning or to assess a penalty in a national championship game unless they were chucking it into the stands.

That said, I find girls' games much more difficult to officiate because of the lack of strength and balance to play through contact. The last girls game I worked this season felt a lot like this game. I just couldn't get on the same page with my partners and felt we were very inconsistent. One major reason is because I have trouble anticipate what they will do and get surprised a lot more than boys' games.

 

[Jayrod]

Been watching all these games. Women especially. They gotta go to 6 fouls. Not for basketball reasons. Because the refs blow 4-10 calls per half. That golden guy for FAU had 4 fouls and should have had 2. Similar on some other games like Gonzaga a couple of years ago. The women’s games are worse. No consistency. Phantom fouls. Hacks not being called. Clear fouls being called tie ups. The VT LSU game the lsu squad might as well have beaten the Kitley girl with a bag of rocks. Going to 6 let’s the refs mistakes not pull the best players off the court and let’s then call basically roughing fouls.

Couldn't agree more. The officiating is awful across the board and they need to do something to limit the impact. The "Everything is a charge" culture has caused guys to just throw themselves in the path of anyone driving hard to the rim just hoping to get the call. (and for some bizarre reason, the refs fall for it 90% of the time) And those calls change games. I would be 100% in favor of going to 6 fouls.

They've changed the mentality/philosophy on this is probably why you feel they "fall for it".

It used to be you had to be planted/set in front. Now you just have to maintain a legal guarding position, which is a much lower threshold for the defender than it used to be 15-20 years ago.

Also, the analytics say that getting to the line is one of the best ways to generate points per possession which means teams are actively trying to draw fouls early and often.

One of the best things I learned to say to coaches over the last couple of years is "when you force me to make a decision, sometimes you aren't going to like that decision." Basically if a player forces their way through defenders or a defender tries to go down to draw the charge, sometimes it isn't going to go their way. I really try to either ignore flopping or even punish it with a block I would have normally let go because that player is trying to fool me or force my hand. On the flip side (and I'm sure I fall for a flop from time to time) if there is enough contact you should call the charge even if the player is embellishing. It is definitely one of the most difficult things to judge.

 

[TLEF316]

Been watching all these games. Women especially. They gotta go to 6 fouls. Not for basketball reasons. Because the refs blow 4-10 calls per half. That golden guy for FAU had 4 fouls and should have had 2. Similar on some other games like Gonzaga a couple of years ago. The women’s games are worse. No consistency. Phantom fouls. Hacks not being called. Clear fouls being called tie ups. The VT LSU game the lsu squad might as well have beaten the Kitley girl with a bag of rocks. Going to 6 let’s the refs mistakes not pull the best players off the court and let’s then call basically roughing fouls.

Couldn't agree more. The officiating is awful across the board and they need to do something to limit the impact. The "Everything is a charge" culture has caused guys to just throw themselves in the path of anyone driving hard to the rim just hoping to get the call. (and for some bizarre reason, the refs fall for it 90% of the time) And those calls change games. I would be 100% in favor of going to 6 fouls.

They've changed the mentality/philosophy on this is probably why you feel they "fall for it".

It used to be you had to be planted/set in front. Now you just have to maintain a legal guarding position, which is a much lower threshold for the defender than it used to be 15-20 years ago.

Also, the analytics say that getting to the line is one of the best ways to generate points per possession which means teams are actively trying to draw fouls early and often.

One of the best things I learned to say to coaches over the last couple of years is "when you force me to make a decision, sometimes you aren't going to like that decision." Basically if a player forces their way through defenders or a defender tries to go down to draw the charge, sometimes it isn't going to go their way. I really try to either ignore flopping or even punish it with a block I would have normally let go because that player is trying to fool me or force my hand. On the flip side (and I'm sure I fall for a flop from time to time) if there is enough contact you should call the charge even if the player is embellishing. It is definitely one of the most difficult things to judge.

Yeah, I know its often a tough call. And I know they sort of changed the rule.

But I'm just constantly baffled at how liberal these guys apparently are with granting "legal guarding position". So many instances of defenders getting beat, basically running along side their man for 2-3 steps and then just throwing their body underneath the guy when he goes to elevate. And it gets called a charge. Its absolutely unreal sometimes.

I know the refs need to enforce the rules as written. But IMO it has gone WAY too far.

 

[Phil Elliott]

LSU coach seems very even-keeled.

She only has one speed - petal to the metal all the time.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

Been watching all these games. Women especially. They gotta go to 6 fouls. Not for basketball reasons. Because the refs blow 4-10 calls per half. That golden guy for FAU had 4 fouls and should have had 2. Similar on some other games like Gonzaga a couple of years ago. The women’s games are worse. No consistency. Phantom fouls. Hacks not being called. Clear fouls being called tie ups. The VT LSU game the lsu squad might as well have beaten the Kitley girl with a bag of rocks. Going to 6 let’s the refs mistakes not pull the best players off the court and let’s then call basically roughing fouls.

Couldn't agree more. The officiating is awful across the board and they need to do something to limit the impact. The "Everything is a charge" culture has caused guys to just throw themselves in the path of anyone driving hard to the rim just hoping to get the call. (and for some bizarre reason, the refs fall for it 90% of the time) And those calls change games. I would be 100% in favor of going to 6 fouls.

They've changed the mentality/philosophy on this is probably why you feel they "fall for it".

It used to be you had to be planted/set in front. Now you just have to maintain a legal guarding position, which is a much lower threshold for the defender than it used to be 15-20 years ago.

Also, the analytics say that getting to the line is one of the best ways to generate points per possession which means teams are actively trying to draw fouls early and often.

One of the best things I learned to say to coaches over the last couple of years is "when you force me to make a decision, sometimes you aren't going to like that decision." Basically if a player forces their way through defenders or a defender tries to go down to draw the charge, sometimes it isn't going to go their way. I really try to either ignore flopping or even punish it with a block I would have normally let go because that player is trying to fool me or force my hand. On the flip side (and I'm sure I fall for a flop from time to time) if there is enough contact you should call the charge even if the player is embellishing. It is definitely one of the most difficult things to judge.

Having coached boys AAU for a long time (quit a couple years ago), to me the inconsistency is the thing. I'm not saying it's easy. But too often refs decide unconsciously in the first five minutes if they are going to let them play, call fouls early to set a tone, or at the youth level make sure the game is done in the allotted time. Then halfway through they reverse the tone they want to set. And it drove me mad. What is a foul 3 mins into a game is a foul with 3 mins left. In a tightly called game, a coach is going to their bench and players on the court might not even go for a rebound or play solid D to avoid the offense forcing calls. In a rough game, the starters may stay in but they are beat up and exhausted. I don't even want to get to the tie ups. Basically on the boards anyone can tackle another player and it's gonna be a jump ball, despite it being obvious fouls. Just go to 6 fouls and take the bench and foul avoidance issue out of it.

 

[Deamon]

They were easily a 2 based on efficiency, but I do think they’re more of a 4 based on resume. So I don’t think the committee made a major blunder with them.

It’s really not hindsight.

So then isn't it hindsight when people are saying the committee screwed up and they should have been a 1 or 2 seed?
I agree with everything you said there, the committee has to go off of resume and they were a 3/4 based on those things. I think a 3 woulda been perfect but one spot isn't a big deal.

It probably is. There’s a difference between people who saw qqqthis coming based on efficiency research and people who are just saying it because of how dominant UCONN has been.

Not sure this matters too much, but throwing in some anecdotal data... I run a Pick 6 style pool. 26 out of 60 entries had UConn selected as one of their 6 teams. That is a pretty fair number of folks who at least saw the potential in UConn enough to consider them a great value pick. I guess I share this to point out it is not all hindsight. Many people had some pre-tournament expectations of UConn.

Ya I'm not sure how that works, anyone can just pick any 6 teams they want? Or you have to pick one of each seed or something? I liked UCONN pre tourney too but would not say they should have been a 2 seed.

 

[Da Guru]

Yeah, 9:20 EST start time is TERRIBLE.

Start times are almost always about getting the most viewers. I don't know if the time changed because a west coast team is in it, but even then I find it hard to believe a 9:30 east coast time would get the most viewers. I would think a 5:15 West coast start, 8:15 east coast would appease almost everyone.

Been watching all these games. Women especially. They gotta go to 6 fouls. Not for basketball reasons. Because the refs blow 4-10 calls per half. That golden guy for FAU had 4 fouls and should have had 2. Similar on some other games like Gonzaga a couple of years ago. The women’s games are worse. No consistency. Phantom fouls. Hacks not being called. Clear fouls being called tie ups. The VT LSU game the lsu squad might as well have beaten the Kitley girl with a bag of rocks. Going to 6 let’s the refs mistakes not pull the best players off the court and let’s then call basically roughing fouls.

Couldn't agree more. The officiating is awful across the board and they need to do something to limit the impact. The "Everything is a charge" culture has caused guys to just throw themselves in the path of anyone driving hard to the rim just hoping to get the call. (and for some bizarre reason, the refs fall for it 90% of the time) And those calls change games. I would be 100% in favor of going to 6 fouls.

They've changed the mentality/philosophy on this is probably why you feel they "fall for it".

It used to be you had to be planted/set in front. Now you just have to maintain a legal guarding position, which is a much lower threshold for the defender than it used to be 15-20 years ago.

Also, the analytics say that getting to the line is one of the best ways to generate points per possession which means teams are actively trying to draw fouls early and often.

One of the best things I learned to say to coaches over the last couple of years is "when you force me to make a decision, sometimes you aren't going to like that decision." Basically if a player forces their way through defenders or a defender tries to go down to draw the charge, sometimes it isn't going to go their way. I really try to either ignore flopping or even punish it with a block I would have normally let go because that player is trying to fool me or force my hand. On the flip side (and I'm sure I fall for a flop from time to time) if there is enough contact you should call the charge even if the player is embellishing. It is definitely one of the most difficult things to judge.

Have to think that reffing a higher-level BB game is very difficult. Seems like they could call a foul, or no foul on almost every possession. The SDS=Creighton game was a brawl on every rebound, some fouls were called but many were not.

Then when they are calling ticky tack fouls in college it can take impact players out of the game for too long, puts teams in the penalty situation too early and impacts the games too much.

 

[culdeus]

Tuned in thinking would be halftime and the game hasn't started. Did the women play earlier tonight or something?

 

[Don Quixote]

While listening to the anthem, I had that Seinfeld ep where Jerry killed the doves of the beauty pageant contestant and she had to sing instead come to my mind. I’m not sure why.

 

[MAC_32]

Tip has been 9something pm for decades - you guys new to college hoops?

 

[The Gator]

Tip has been 9something pm for decades - you guys new to college hoops?

Just getting older 9 is the new 11 for some

 

[Jayrod]

SD State off to a good start offensively, which is a great sign for us to have a good game. My fear was UConn would run them out the gym early.

 

[rockaction]

My fear was UConn would run them out the gym early

Wait for it...

Nah, it might be a slow bloodletting here.

/cockyUConnfancockiestfansever

 

[dickey moe]

Slop

 

[TLEF316]

Just not enough skill in the black jerseys. Uconn has too much size and athleticism for them to get open looks.

 

[dickey moe]

The Aztecs can't find anything inside. This could get ugly.

 

[The Z Machine]

Ugh. Aztecs can't buy a bucket right now. Every shot looks forced.

 

[The Gator]

Man, every UCONN defensive rebound is four of them against one poor Aztec. I'm not up to snuff on UCONN, but are SDSU trying to prevent a quick transition? Seems odd to basically have zero chance for an offensive board.

 

[FishTacoTuesday]

I had money on FAU mostly because I thought they’d match up well with UCONN. Hopefully this turns around, gross offense.

 

[FishTacoTuesday]

Ten minutes without a FG.

 

[Jayrod]

Blah, I'm going to bed.

 

[dickey moe]

Reminds me of UCONN vs Butler back in 2011. Nothing was falling for Butler during that game either.

 

[dickey moe]

Turnover after turnover.

 

[rockaction]

Reminds me of UCONN vs Butler back in 2011. Nothing was falling for Butler during that game either.

That was the game Charles Barkley blamed the shooting and whined about it instead of crediting UCONN's defense. At least they're not making that mistake this broadcast.

 

[rockaction]

But yeah, ten minutes is a loooong time.

SDSU still in it.

 

[General Malaise]

Yeah, 9:20 EST start time is TERRIBLE.

6:20 is too late for me.....

 

[The Gator]

My wife just tuning in....."San Diego is the red? "

 

[Sand]

Nice dunk.

And eff UConn. They deserve a lifetime of disappointment after the Tate after the buzzer shot.

 

[ChiefD]

Nice dunk.

Best miss I have ever seen.

 

[BroncoFreak_2K3]

Women’s game was more exciting. Men’s CBB has a problem

 

[trader jake]

Women’s game was more exciting. Men’s CBB has a problem

Yeah, it's the physical level of defensive play that's allowed by NCAA officiating. And the stone age coaching style 3/4 of the schools still have.

 

[rockaction]

Lotta whistles here.

 

[Jayrod]

Women’s game was more exciting. Men’s CBB has a problem

Oh stop it. The FAU/SDSU game was great on Saturday and the Women's Final was no better a game than this one, but played with 1/3 the athleticism.

It's just an ugly game, but no one is switching to watch NCAA women's games instead of Men's during the regular season next year.

 

[shuke]

UConn should be up by 40.

 

[The Gator]

SDSU showing they have alligator blood right now

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

UCONN seems to be physically worn down.

 

[rockaction]

Interesting choices by UCONN leading to a nice comeback here.

Still most likely up at least six with the ball. Unless there's a miss and rebound.

 

[rockaction]

UCONN seems to be physically worn down.

I don't think they're worn down. I think they're tight.

 

[Jayrod]

UCONN seems to be physically worn down.

I don't think they're worn down. I think they're tight.

I'm worn out just watching this thing.

 

[rockaction]

SDSU hanging around tough. Still gonna be six and the ball at worst for UCONN, provided they don't give up an offensive rebound on a miss here.