Negative talk about the rookies... (1 Viewer)

[switz]

It's been mentioned a few times that you always hear positive talk about the rookies, and so you can't believe anything... So then, what does it mean when you hear negative talk?

Jonathan Stewart:

The first day of camp it was apparent that Stewart was feeling the rookie jitters as he dropped a wide-open pass in the flat and was formally welcomed to the NFL by a big hit from Davis.

Rookie running back Jonathan Stewart and newcomer D.J. Hackett were among those who also didn’t practice Monday evening. Both are recovering after being injured last season though Hackett played in the Seattle Seahawks’ final regular season game and its two postseason contests. Nick Goings (ankle), who is the only Panther injured so far during training camp, joined Stewart and Hackett for conditioning drills.

Rashard Mendenhall:

Meanwhile, rookie running back Rashard Mendenhall understands why Tomlin criticized him for not running harder during the first goal-line drill of camp on Sunday. Mendenhall, drafted as a power back to complement the fleet Willie Parker, was stopped three times from inside the 2 during a seven-play sequence.

Tomlin said, "He has to run harder, not overanalyze, understand what the drill's about."

Darren McFadden:

Speaking of McFadden, the No. 4 overall draft pick missed a blitz pickup during a team drill.

Felix Jones:

Felix Jones, the rookie running back, ran smoothly and lined up wide for a pass play. But he slipped down as the primary receiver on one route, prompting Tony Romo to look for his second option, and when that was covered up, he threw the ball away.

Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

 

[comfortably numb]

I dropped all these guys a few notches in my rankings, so I took Colt Brennen with my 1.4.



Only think worse than preseason hype, is week 1 preseason hype.

 

[dmac37]

Felix Jones:

Felix Jones, the rookie running back, ran smoothly and lined up wide for a pass play. But he slipped down as the primary receiver on one route, prompting Tony Romo to look for his second option, and when that was covered up, he threw the ball away.

Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

Switz, shocked you added a Felix blurb in there. No Ray Rice negative news.

 

[Iwannabeacowboybaby!]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.

In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.

The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."

McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.

And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

 

[jurb26]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

Nothing in here is news worthy or warrants any sort of concern other than Mendenhall's blurb.

 

[mcintyre1]

Have no worries about Mendenhall. No one on the Steelers offense was good in that drill. Pretty much all the news on Mendenhall has been glowing so far- showing great vision and cuts through small holes.

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

Great post.

 

[ericthemidget]

I heard John Fox being interviewed today on Sirius at their training camp. He was pretty high on DeAngelo Williams, but didn't really say much about Jonathan Stewart other than they were getting him going after his toe injury. Can't read too much into that but just passing the info along.

 

[switz]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

I agree for the most part. And my post was pretty tongue in cheek.I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news. The other two stories were pretty meaningless.I didn't look up anything on Ray Rice, Kevin Smith or Matt Forte. But I honestly couldn't find a thing on chris Johnson.

 

[EBF]

None of that stuff means anything to me. Negative buzz would have to pretty serious to affect my judgment of a player this early in his career. We've seen this stuff in the past with guys like Santonio Holmes, Dwayne Bowe, and Marshawn Lynch. Didn't mean squat. None if it really matters until they strap on the pads and play some games. The preseason should offer some real clues about who's been a disappointment and who's in line to get some real minutes right away.

 

[mdog1967]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

I agree for the most part. And my post was pretty tongue in cheek.I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news. The other two stories were pretty meaningless.I didn't look up anything on Ray Rice, Kevin Smith or Matt Forte. But I honestly couldn't find a thing on chris Johnson.

The only thing you can count on is Dmac is going to make Cedric Benson look like LT when its all said and done. Every thing in the preseason and camp is to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[joffer]

stopped at the goal line 3 times? that's it, it's over. i'm not really sure why he should still continue playing. should just start looking at other career opportunities.

 

[Drop]

I agree for the most part. And my post was pretty tongue in cheek.I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news. The other two stories were pretty meaningless.I didn't look up anything on Ray Rice, Kevin Smith or Matt Forte. But I honestly couldn't find a thing on chris Johnson.

Kevin Smith has been impressive according to certain Lions veterans. I can't recall who exactly complimented him.I keep hearing that Chris Johnson is very fast. I have also heard that he has picked up the playbook very well and is able to block in the blitz pickup.

 

[Road Warriors]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

I agree for the most part. And my post was pretty tongue in cheek.I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news. The other two stories were pretty meaningless.I didn't look up anything on Ray Rice, Kevin Smith or Matt Forte. But I honestly couldn't find a thing on chris Johnson.

Understanding that your post was tongue in cheek, the point of it is still solid. It'd be a lot easier to swallow the glowing reports if they were a bit more balanced with some of this type of news. These guys may be great, but they're rookies and they'll make mistakes. If you are hearing nothing but glowing reports, it doesn't ring true. None of these items mean that these guys aren't going to be solid, good, or great. I just means they're learning and making mistakes.

 

[super sleeper]

Felix Jones:

Felix Jones, the rookie running back, ran smoothly and lined up wide for a pass play. But he slipped down as the primary receiver on one route, prompting Tony Romo to look for his second option, and when that was covered up, he threw the ball away.

Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

Switz, shocked you added a Felix blurb in there. No Ray Rice negative news.

Admitted Ray Rice homer here, but I will share that he had a rough day a few back, fumbling 3 punts. While he has had mostly rave reviews so far, this news in particular worried me, because I think given his strong camp, the Ravens were giving him first crack at being their return guy to get him on the field more. But he's never returned kicks at Rutgers, so that can't be helping him or endearing him to the special teams coaches.

 

[simey]

I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news.

Why would you be concerned about the Stewart news on his first day of camp? I thought you lived around Charlotte. Multiple reports around the area say he has been looking great. That clip you did of Stewart forgot to add that when he was flattened by Davis, Davis said "Welcome to the NFL Rookie".

 

[Burning Sensation]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

I agree for the most part. And my post was pretty tongue in cheek.I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news. The other two stories were pretty meaningless.I didn't look up anything on Ray Rice, Kevin Smith or Matt Forte. But I honestly couldn't find a thing on chris Johnson.

The only thing you can count on is Dmac is going to make Cedric Benson look like LT when its all said and done. Every thing in the preseason and camp is to be taken with a grain of salt.

While i dont take training camp/preseason to mean alot, it is certainly information that should be taken into account. The only kind of things i take with a grain of salt, is stuff like this:

The only thing you can count on is Dmac is going to make Cedric Benson look like LT when its all said and done.

 

[CBower4545]

I am not that worried about that news. This is the type of negative news that does worry me,

Rookie WR Malcolm Kelly is in Birmingham being evaluated by Dr. James Andrews and may need to have arthroscopic knee surgery, Coach Jim Zorn said. Kelly had a hamstring injury and, in recovering from that, began to feel some stiffness in his knees.

 

[sholditch]

I think you have to be intelligent enough to decide what information is important and what isn't.

In these particular examples, I don't think the news on J. Stewart is that big of a deal. He dropped a pass in practice, oops. I'm sure the guy can catch.

The Mendehall thing bothers me a little bit, I don't like that the coach is saying he needs to run harder. I want to hear him say something along the lines, "Wait till you see this boy run."

McFadden's sort of bothers me, it's important that rookies learn to pick up blitzes or they won't be in the game. However, this can be expected this early in the career and figuring out McFadden's work ethic at this point is more important than him missing this particular blitz assignment.

And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

I agree for the most part. And my post was pretty tongue in cheek.I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news. The other two stories were pretty meaningless.

I didn't look up anything on Ray Rice, Kevin Smith or Matt Forte. But I honestly couldn't find a thing on chris Johnson.

The only thing you can count on is Dmac is going to make Cedric Benson look like LT when its all said and done. Every thing in the preseason and camp is to be taken with a grain of salt.

Wow, you just topped my list of most ridiculous DMAC posts of all time.

 

[switz]

I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news.

Why would you be concerned about the Stewart news on his first day of camp? I thought you lived around Charlotte. Multiple reports around the area say he has been looking great. That clip you did of Stewart forgot to add that when he was flattened by Davis, Davis said "Welcome to the NFL Rookie".

AFAIK Stewart is still in non-contact drills only

 

[Keys Myaths]

So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

Yes.The incidents you cited above are just that--isolated incidents. They can happen to any football player, and they all happen on one or a few plays.Using these anecdotes, especially from either beat writers (who usually have very little scouting knowledge) or coaches (who clearly have a vested interest in any info they put out, so it's severely slanted) is a waste of time, imo.

 

[bonesman]

And of course Felix Jones falling down on a pass play and Romo throwing it away shouldn't even have made the news.

I was pretty much about the quotes in this thread... but that's actually my main (and only really) concern about Felix JonesI know he has the speed... but I'm not sure he has the natural sense of balance to be a great player. He seems to be slightly sloppy or clumsy or something.I wouldn't bump him down at all solely because of this news though.

 

[massraider]

Details of McFadden's gaffe:

Raiders running back Darren McFadden is a rookie. For once, he actually acted like one - even if just for one play.

"I missed an assignment," McFadden said Monday.

That he did, letting a 49ers blitzer get by during a historic joint practice in Napa between the Bay Area's two NFL teams.

McFadden's job was to block for the quarterback but he got confused by the unfamiliar personnel.

So there's your headline: "McFadden human, after all." Other than that, the No. 4 overall draft pick continued his splendid ways.

"I can't find something to complain about Darren," Raiders coach Lane Kiffin said. "He brings it every day."

McFadden said pass protection has been his biggest challenge because in college he was a tailback, receiver and quarterback - but rarely a blitz picker-upper.

"In Arkansas, we had four or five pass protections the whole time I was there. "I come out here, you have 10 or 12. If you're a split-second late, you're going to miss him."

 

[ConstruxBoy]

I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news.

Why would you be concerned about the Stewart news on his first day of camp? I thought you lived around Charlotte. Multiple reports around the area say he has been looking great. That clip you did of Stewart forgot to add that when he was flattened by Davis, Davis said "Welcome to the NFL Rookie".

AFAIK Stewart is still in non-contact drills only

Wrong. Thomas Davis flattened him. That's what the post you quoted said. He's in regular drills with the team.

 

[switz]

I would be concerned by both the Stewart and Mendenhall news.

Why would you be concerned about the Stewart news on his first day of camp? I thought you lived around Charlotte. Multiple reports around the area say he has been looking great. That clip you did of Stewart forgot to add that when he was flattened by Davis, Davis said "Welcome to the NFL Rookie".

AFAIK Stewart is still in non-contact drills only

Wrong. Thomas Davis flattened him. That's what the post you quoted said. He's in regular drills with the team.

I know yesterday evening he didn't practice, but rehabbed with the trainer. If he was hit in a drill, I'm not so sure he was supposed to be. I know the Panthers are practicing in pads, but from what I've read there's not supposed to be hitting going on, in fact Fox yelled at one player for laying a hit on someone (no, not the Steve Smith experience LOL)

... Donning full pads doesn't mean that Fox wants his players charging into each other. After cornerback Dante Wesley sent wide receiver Travis Taylor to the grass with a solid hit across the middle, the head coach had a gentle admonishment for his charges: "You've got to be smart over there!" ...

I'm a little concerned that Stewart is not healed up. We'll see how things go for him. He's been practicing, even on kickoffs so there is room for optimism. I like him better than DA, so for the Panthers sake I hope he's good to go.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I think it is important to see all the positive and negative talk about these guys. I like this thread for that reason. You just have to be able to sift through the bull#### on both ends.

 

[BoltBacker]

It's been mentioned a few times that you always hear positive talk about the rookies, and so you can't believe anything... So then, what does it mean when you hear negative talk?Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

If you notice, every one of those instances of "negative talk" isn't spin, it's simply a stated fact. A guy fell down. A guy missed a block. A guy missed a practice. It's also interesting to note several instances there's a built in excuse... "rookie jitters".... "he ran smoothly"(just before falling down apparently)... etc.That's a lot different than hype in my opinion. Hype is using terms like "wowing" and "better than expected" and "going to another gear" and "he brings it every day" and "he may not be fast BUT he has BURST" that can't really pinned down and can be said by anyone. Cedric Benson's dad could have been in the stands and be "wowed" by his sons gritty determination on every play. Who's to say his dad isn't being "wowed" even if nobody else is? If it's reported that McFadden broke three long runs for touchdowns this afternoon... that's not hype, it's simply a statement of fact. There's a difference between the two.Just for the record I'm firmly in the camp there is a lot of hype around rookies every year and I'm all for it.

 

[Burning Sensation]

It's been mentioned a few times that you always hear positive talk about the rookies, and so you can't believe anything... So then, what does it mean when you hear negative talk?Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

If you notice, every one of those instances of "negative talk" isn't spin, it's simply a stated fact. A guy fell down. A guy missed a block. A guy missed a practice. It's also interesting to note several instances there's a built in excuse... "rookie jitters".... "he ran smoothly"(just before falling down apparently)... etc.That's a lot different than hype in my opinion. Hype is using terms like "wowing" and "better than expected" and "going to another gear" and "he brings it every day" and "he may not be fast BUT he has BURST" that can't really pinned down and can be said by anyone. Cedric Benson's dad could have been in the stands and be "wowed" by his sons gritty determination on every play. Who's to say his dad isn't being "wowed" even if nobody else is? If it's reported that McFadden broke three long runs for touchdowns this afternoon... that's not hype, it's simply a statement of fact. There's a difference between the two.Just for the record I'm firmly in the camp there is a lot of hype around rookies every year and I'm all for it.

I think it also depends on who is saying and how many people it is coming from. If i hear Mcfadden is "wowing in camp" from the coaching staff, other players and the media, its a pretty good sign.

 

[jurb26]

It's been mentioned a few times that you always hear positive talk about the rookies, and so you can't believe anything... So then, what does it mean when you hear negative talk?Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

If you notice, every one of those instances of "negative talk" isn't spin, it's simply a stated fact. A guy fell down. A guy missed a block. A guy missed a practice. It's also interesting to note several instances there's a built in excuse... "rookie jitters".... "he ran smoothly"(just before falling down apparently)... etc.That's a lot different than hype in my opinion. Hype is using terms like "wowing" and "better than expected" and "going to another gear" and "he brings it every day" and "he may not be fast BUT he has BURST" that can't really pinned down and can be said by anyone. Cedric Benson's dad could have been in the stands and be "wowed" by his sons gritty determination on every play. Who's to say his dad isn't being "wowed" even if nobody else is? If it's reported that McFadden broke three long runs for touchdowns this afternoon... that's not hype, it's simply a statement of fact. There's a difference between the two.Just for the record I'm firmly in the camp there is a lot of hype around rookies every year and I'm all for it.

I think it also depends on who is saying and how many people it is coming from. If i hear Mcfadden is "wowing in camp" from the coaching staff, other players and the media, its a pretty good sign.

I don't really place a whole lot of stock in the gleaming TC reports this time of year. The thing that seems to stand out to me however is that no matter what report you read, no matter what person you hear talking about Raiders camp. They always seem to mention somewhere along the line that McFadden is simply stealing the show. That he is everything the Raiders expected and more. I know hype consumes people this time of year, but when everyone who sees a Raiders practice comes away saying the same thing. It's hard to ignore.

 

[gregjcross]

Details of McFadden's gaffe:Raiders running back Darren McFadden is a rookie. For once, he actually acted like one - even if just for one play."I missed an assignment," McFadden said Monday.That he did, letting a 49ers blitzer get by during a historic joint practice in Napa between the Bay Area's two NFL teams.McFadden's job was to block for the quarterback but he got confused by the unfamiliar personnel.So there's your headline: "McFadden human, after all." Other than that, the No. 4 overall draft pick continued his splendid ways."I can't find something to complain about Darren," Raiders coach Lane Kiffin said. "He brings it every day."McFadden said pass protection has been his biggest challenge because in college he was a tailback, receiver and quarterback - but rarely a blitz picker-upper."In Arkansas, we had four or five pass protections the whole time I was there. "I come out here, you have 10 or 12. If you're a split-second late, you're going to miss him."

I have no vested stake in Darren McFadden, but to the doubters, i think they will be silenced in pretty short order (and my multiple postings from April when teh Raiders took him will reflect that). Barring something unforseen, this guy is going to be very good. So will Ray Rice, Felix Jones and Chris Johnson. I would put Forte in there once I see more improvement from the Bears O'line. I want to see more from Jonathan Stewart and Mendenhall before i can have an opinion, I just havent seen anything of them.

 

[Andy Herron]

We have a full slate of preseason games starting this week, and it's the real-game action and performance that will BEGIN to add some clarity as to where these rookies are in their development and adjustment to the NFL.

 

[BoltBacker]

It's been mentioned a few times that you always hear positive talk about the rookies, and so you can't believe anything... So then, what does it mean when you hear negative talk?Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

If you notice, every one of those instances of "negative talk" isn't spin, it's simply a stated fact. A guy fell down. A guy missed a block. A guy missed a practice. It's also interesting to note several instances there's a built in excuse... "rookie jitters".... "he ran smoothly"(just before falling down apparently)... etc.That's a lot different than hype in my opinion. Hype is using terms like "wowing" and "better than expected" and "going to another gear" and "he brings it every day" and "he may not be fast BUT he has BURST" that can't really pinned down and can be said by anyone. Cedric Benson's dad could have been in the stands and be "wowed" by his sons gritty determination on every play. Who's to say his dad isn't being "wowed" even if nobody else is? If it's reported that McFadden broke three long runs for touchdowns this afternoon... that's not hype, it's simply a statement of fact. There's a difference between the two.Just for the record I'm firmly in the camp there is a lot of hype around rookies every year and I'm all for it.

I think it also depends on who is saying and how many people it is coming from. If i hear Mcfadden is "wowing in camp" from the coaching staff, other players and the media, its a pretty good sign.

I don't really place a whole lot of stock in the gleaming TC reports this time of year. The thing that seems to stand out to me however is that no matter what report you read, no matter what person you hear talking about Raiders camp. They always seem to mention somewhere along the line that McFadden is simply stealing the show. That he is everything the Raiders expected and more. I know hype consumes people this time of year, but when everyone who sees a Raiders practice comes away saying the same thing. It's hard to ignore.

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact. The player either fell down while going out for a pass or he didn't... reporting what happened isn't a negative comment, it's a factual comment.For what it's worth I do expect McFadden to be very good. I'm always surprised when a RB taken in the top 4 isn't. In the $35k contest he was the highest salaried player on my team in the first run through. I don't read all the bandwagon threads but I haven't read/heard a lot of "McFadden doubters" out there. As a group I think most or maybe even all the other rookies are going too high in non-dynasty drafts though.

 

[massraider]

It's been mentioned a few times that you always hear positive talk about the rookies, and so you can't believe anything... So then, what does it mean when you hear negative talk?Varying degrees of negative talk, some alarming, some not so much.So, if we disregard all the positive, do we disregard the negative too? LOL

If you notice, every one of those instances of "negative talk" isn't spin, it's simply a stated fact. A guy fell down. A guy missed a block. A guy missed a practice. It's also interesting to note several instances there's a built in excuse... "rookie jitters".... "he ran smoothly"(just before falling down apparently)... etc.That's a lot different than hype in my opinion. Hype is using terms like "wowing" and "better than expected" and "going to another gear" and "he brings it every day" and "he may not be fast BUT he has BURST" that can't really pinned down and can be said by anyone. Cedric Benson's dad could have been in the stands and be "wowed" by his sons gritty determination on every play. Who's to say his dad isn't being "wowed" even if nobody else is? If it's reported that McFadden broke three long runs for touchdowns this afternoon... that's not hype, it's simply a statement of fact. There's a difference between the two.Just for the record I'm firmly in the camp there is a lot of hype around rookies every year and I'm all for it.

I think it also depends on who is saying and how many people it is coming from. If i hear Mcfadden is "wowing in camp" from the coaching staff, other players and the media, its a pretty good sign.

I don't really place a whole lot of stock in the gleaming TC reports this time of year. The thing that seems to stand out to me however is that no matter what report you read, no matter what person you hear talking about Raiders camp. They always seem to mention somewhere along the line that McFadden is simply stealing the show. That he is everything the Raiders expected and more. I know hype consumes people this time of year, but when everyone who sees a Raiders practice comes away saying the same thing. It's hard to ignore.

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact. The player either fell down while going out for a pass or he didn't... reporting what happened isn't a negative comment, it's a factual comment.For what it's worth I do expect McFadden to be very good. I'm always surprised when a RB taken in the top 4 isn't. In the $35k contest he was the highest salaried player on my team in the first run through. I don't read all the bandwagon threads but I haven't read/heard a lot of "McFadden doubters" out there. As a group I think most or maybe even all the other rookies are going too high in non-dynasty drafts though.

Me too. Not a new phenomenon, but ADP's performance last year, and the amount of RBBC probably will make it moreso this year.

 

[switz]

If you notice, every one of those instances of "negative talk" isn't spin, it's simply a stated fact. A guy fell down. A guy missed a block. A guy missed a practice. It's also interesting to note several instances there's a built in excuse... "rookie jitters".... "he ran smoothly"(just before falling down apparently)... etc.

That's a lot different than hype in my opinion. Hype is using terms like "wowing" and "better than expected" and "going to another gear" and "he brings it every day" and "he may not be fast BUT he has BURST" that can't really pinned down and can be said by anyone. Cedric Benson's dad could have been in the stands and be "wowed" by his sons gritty determination on every play. Who's to say his dad isn't being "wowed" even if nobody else is? If it's reported that McFadden broke three long runs for touchdowns this afternoon... that's not hype, it's simply a statement of fact. There's a difference between the two.

Just for the record I'm firmly in the camp there is a lot of hype around rookies every year and I'm all for it.

And I think you also pinpoint how we can distinguish rookie hype form rookies making good plays. Hence why I don't think every good report should just be discarded as hype, just as every bad report shouldn't automatically make you panic.

 

[switz]

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact.

And to clarify my initial post - numerous times have positive reports, actual statement of fact, about rookies been cast aside as "hype". That's what initiated my post... I was wondering how people would respond to negative reports - if it would be discarded just as quickly, or if people were going to treat negative reports with weight, while ignoring positive reports.

 

[T Bell]

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact.

And to clarify my initial post - numerous times have positive reports, actual statement of fact, about rookies been cast aside as "hype". That's what initiated my post... I was wondering how people would respond to negative reports - if it would be discarded just as quickly, or if people were going to treat negative reports with weight, while ignoring positive reports.

You seem to be mistaking qualitative/normative comments with quantitative/positive comments. "RB Herbie Schmertz caught/dropped a pass out of the backfield during a drill" is a quantitative/positive comment - it states a fact, something that actually happened. There's no debating it. This sort of comment you can do something with, e.g. "Oh, I didn't know that the team was going to use Schmertz in the passing game", although you always run the risk of allowing inductive reasoning to run amok. "RB Herbie Schmertz looks like he'll have a smooth transition to the NFL and could be a dominant receiver for the team" is a qualitative/normative comment. It's analysis and someone's conclusion about the player's prospects. These are the types of comments that get easily dismissed because 1) you only rarely if ever tend to see a willingness of coaches to use the negative version of these comments, which means that these sorts of comments tend to be just fluff, and 2) the conclusions aren't as valuable as the reasoning supporting them, which you rarely see convincingly laid out. HTH

 

[switz]

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact.

And to clarify my initial post - numerous times have positive reports, actual statement of fact, about rookies been cast aside as "hype". That's what initiated my post... I was wondering how people would respond to negative reports - if it would be discarded just as quickly, or if people were going to treat negative reports with weight, while ignoring positive reports.

You seem to be mistaking qualitative/normative comments with quantitative/positive comments.

You seem pretty arrogant to assume I'm mistaking the difference when you have no idea what specific comments I'm referring to.There have been plenty of qualitative/positive comments dismissed in other thread and tagged as "rookie hype."

 

[T Bell]

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact.

And to clarify my initial post - numerous times have positive reports, actual statement of fact, about rookies been cast aside as "hype". That's what initiated my post... I was wondering how people would respond to negative reports - if it would be discarded just as quickly, or if people were going to treat negative reports with weight, while ignoring positive reports.

You seem to be mistaking qualitative/normative comments with quantitative/positive comments.

You seem pretty arrogant to assume I'm mistaking the difference when you have no idea what specific comments I'm referring to.There have been plenty of qualitative/positive comments dismissed in other thread and tagged as "rookie hype."

ORLY? I thought you listed those specific comments in your post. Maybe my "arrogance" is simply a false confidence in you to competently lay out what you mean. Not to worry - I won't make that mistake again.

 

[BoltBacker]

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact.

And to clarify my initial post - numerous times have positive reports, actual statement of fact, about rookies been cast aside as "hype". That's what initiated my post... I was wondering how people would respond to negative reports - if it would be discarded just as quickly, or if people were going to treat negative reports with weight, while ignoring positive reports.

That's fair. I will admit I'm more likely to listen to bad reports than good reports. But there's a reason for that;GM - He just drafted the guy a few months ago. If that player looks bad doesn't he automatically look bad for selecting him? He has a reason to say the player is doing well even if he's not.Coach - He often had some say in drafting the player, but at the very least his handle on his own job is closely tied to the success of the player. There will be the occasional coach that will try to light a fire under a rookie by calling him out(Parcells/Glenn comes to mind) but in general I think most coaches speak highly of rookies, they have a lot of work to do but they are working hard and showing spunk blah blah blah. They have better depth in the backfield than they've had in years so they can afford to rest their starter a little more and run the ball more this season blah blah blah.Players - This is an instance where it may actually be in the best interest of a few players to talk down the effectiveness of a rookie if they play the same position... but really how often do teamates rip each other in front of microphones? Whenever it happens it's instantly news and I don't think many players want to go through that. Again, it's most often PC speak or nothing at all.Media - They just want something to write and have the least grasp of whether a player is playing well or not in this group. Well, at least most media... the beat writer for the Lions may have a punchers chance vs the GM. But in most cases they do want quotes and it's going to be a lot easier finding people inside the organization willing to praise the organization than finding people looking to criticize a rookie before they've even played in their first preseason game.I don't ignore positive reports(especially like I said earlier if McFadden has three break away runs it means more to me than "he brings it every day") but I do take them with more of a grain of salt than the negative reports.

 

[switz]

To be perfectly clear, my criticism was aimed at the statement made by the OP that these were examples of "negative comments" about rookies. They were simply statements of fact.

And to clarify my initial post - numerous times have positive reports, actual statement of fact, about rookies been cast aside as "hype". That's what initiated my post... I was wondering how people would respond to negative reports - if it would be discarded just as quickly, or if people were going to treat negative reports with weight, while ignoring positive reports.

You seem to be mistaking qualitative/normative comments with quantitative/positive comments.

You seem pretty arrogant to assume I'm mistaking the difference when you have no idea what specific comments I'm referring to.There have been plenty of qualitative/positive comments dismissed in other thread and tagged as "rookie hype."

ORLY? I thought you listed those specific comments in your post. Maybe my "arrogance" is simply a false confidence in you to competently lay out what you mean. Not to worry - I won't make that mistake again.

I haven't listed any "positive" comments about rookies in this entire thread for you to determine what type of comments they were. Yet you assume any of those glowing remarks were qualitative/normative without knowing what they were.