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"Never apologize for being white..." (1 Viewer)

bueno said:
And in the 60's a lot of terms were used to describe different whites: Micks, Pollacks, Hugies,Krauts, Dagos, Wops, etc.
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Bring back the ethnic joke books!

Well, Ralph Nader sees those jokes having a societal benefit...

NADER:  A lot of people grew up on ethnic jokes, which are totally taboo now. Do you know, Lydia, there are no ethnic-joke books in bookstores anymore?  There were Negro-joke books, Jewish-joke books, Polish-joke books, Italian-joke books. They used ethnic jokes to reduce tension in the 1930s, ‘40s, ‘50s. And they’d laugh at each other’s jokes and hurl another one. But it still flows through ethnic America, you know. There are hundreds of things that people would like to say.

 
bostonfred said:
There is something wrong with the statement: the implication that you are going to be asked to apologize for being white.  It's confrontational martyrdom.  Oh woe is me, everyone expects me to apologize for who i am.  I'm going to stick it to them and refuse.  

It's passive aggressive on its face, but the ickier implication is that there are bad people who are going to make you feel bad about being yourself.  And that falls into two categories - non whites, and white apologists - as opposed to you, the white non apologist. You could take the nuanced stance that there are non whites who don't make you apologize, and whites who neither apologize nor make confrontational statements about how they shouldn't have to, but this is an us vs. them statement made to us about them.

It also creates a false equivalence between white people and minorities in this country.  Never apologize for being born rich is a much different statement than never applogize for being born poor.  There's nothing intrinsically wrong woth having an advantage, or owning who you are.  There is something wrong with having an advantage and acting like you've been treated unfairly.  Think back to how you felt when you heard about the affluenza kid.

If you need a litmus test, though, imagine saying this in a room filled with people of another race.  Would you whisper?  Say it loud?  Be ready for conflict?  It's a divisive statement and he knows it.
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thank you fred.

 
T J said:
My comment was somewhat flippant, but it's true. Not a color thing, but I'm not tall (5'9") and I didn't make a lot of teams because of it even though I could play really well. Guess who did though? Always bugged me but I got over it and did other stuff in high school. Discrimination is only discrimination if you let it define you. Other than that, it's just an annoyance/obstacle to overcome.
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yea..not making the basket ball team vs. not getting a job, not being able to live in a certain neighborhood or house.....pretty compelling stuff.

 
Thunderlips said:
Sometimes I think it really bothers non-ethic/ non-cultural American Whites that American Blacks have a culture that has historically been defined (as much or even morso by their opponents as by themselves) primarily by their race/color.  
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I think that white people can give two ####s if black people choose to define themselves primarily by race.  Present white resentment doesn't stem from black people defining themselves as black.  The resentment stems from black people defining themselves as black and, all too often, as defining white people as being against them.  But for the part of the sentence after the "and" you'd likely see a great reduction in white resentment, and perhaps wouldn't see this father telling those kids to "never apologize for being white."

It almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some black people think that all white people are out to get them so they voice that concern or express reticence around white people, and some white people interpret that as all back people not liking them.  Then some white people either clam up or express resentment, and then some black people interpret that.as all white people not liking them.  Rinse, repeat cycle.

And, yes, this cycle will endlessly be repeated.

 
bostonfred said:
There is something wrong with the statement: the implication that you are going to be asked to apologize for being white.  It's confrontational martyrdom.  Oh woe is me, everyone expects me to apologize for who i am.  I'm going to stick it to them and refuse.  

It's passive aggressive on its face, but the ickier implication is that there are bad people who are going to make you feel bad about being yourself.  And that falls into two categories - non whites, and white apologists - as opposed to you, the white non apologist. You could take the nuanced stance that there are non whites who don't make you apologize, and whites who neither apologize nor make confrontational statements about how they shouldn't have to, but this is an us vs. them statement made to us about them.

It also creates a false equivalence between white people and minorities in this country.  Never apologize for being born rich is a much different statement than never applogize for being born poor.  There's nothing intrinsically wrong woth having an advantage, or owning who you are.  There is something wrong with having an advantage and acting like you've been treated unfairly.  Think back to how you felt when you heard about the affluenza kid.

If you need a litmus test, though, imagine saying this in a room filled with people of another race.  Would you whisper?  Say it loud?  Be ready for conflict?  It's a divisive statement and he knows it.
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:fantasticposting:

I was having trouble putting my thoughts into words, seems like you got me covered here.

 
timschochet said:
But there are no "other groups" like "white people", and that's the problem. I think people should be proud of their ethnic heritage. I'm proud to be a Jewish American (Jewish in this context being more of an ethnicity than a religion.) Irish Americans, Mexican Americans, African-Americans, Italian Americans, Vietnamese Americans should all be proud, take pride in achievements. There's nothing wrong with any of that. But "white"- that's not an ethnicity. "White pride" is based solely on skin shade, and is therefore racist. IMO. 
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Every time I see you post something incredulous, you soon manage to top it.  There ARE other groups, Tim.  For example, "black people". It's okay for that group to have "black pride" & it's okay for white folks to have "white pride".  In fact there are groups of people who are a mixture of races like the Denver Broncos. I bet they're proud of their achievement last season. Nothing wrong with being proud of a group you're in. It doesn't diminish other groups.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
OP, the fact that you feel uneasy about such a benign statement shows why that statement should be said.  You're not alone in your uneasiness.  We've been trained to view any expression of white pride, even benign statements like the one in question, as being tinged with racism.  Few if any members of other groups experience such uneasiness over comparable statements about their group.  Quite the contrary, nearly all members of other groups would see a similar statement of their group as a positive to be applauded rather than a negative to be worried about.
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It's strange that anyone would need to tell kids not to apologize for the color of their skin.

 
MaxThreshold said:
So it's not okay to talk to white kids about race unless it's to tell them how oppressive white's were to the blacks?  Basically, shaming them for being white?

"White Guilt", I guess.
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Why would what people did hundreds of years ago cause anyone guilt?

 
Jim11 said:
Every time I see you post something incredulous, you soon manage to top it.  There ARE other groups, Tim.  For example, "black people". It's okay for that group to have "black pride" & it's okay for white folks to have "white pride".  In fact there are groups of people who are a mixture of races like the Denver Broncos. I bet they're proud of their achievement last season. Nothing wrong with being proud of a group you're in. It doesn't diminish other groups.
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Was waiting for someone to mention the Denver Broncos

 
Gary Coal Man said:
I think that white people can give two ####s if black people choose to define themselves primarily by race.  Present white resentment doesn't stem from black people defining themselves as black.  The resentment stems from black people defining themselves as black and, all too often, as defining white people as being against them.  But for the part of the sentence after the "and" you'd likely see a great reduction in white resentment, and perhaps wouldn't see this father telling those kids to "never apologize for being white."

It almost becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.  Some black people think that all white people are out to get them so they voice that concern or express reticence around white people, and some white people interpret that as all back people not liking them.  Then some white people either clam up or express resentment, and then some black people interpret that.as all white people not liking them.  Rinse, repeat cycle.

And, yes, this cycle will endlessly be repeated.
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I agree with this.

 
timschochet said:
No, but I admit it gets complicated. Latino pride is OK, and black pride (rather than "African-American pride) is also OK, because both terms encapsulate a series of ethnic traits, history, and NOT INSIGNIFICANTLY, struggle. "White" has none of this, so white pride is not OK.

For instance: everybody knows the first modern black American baseball player was Jackie Robinson. We are proud of his achievements as an American, and as a black American. But who was the first white American baseball player? That's not something most people know, or care about, because there was no rule restricting baseball for whites. So at least part of this discussion, and part of ethnic pride, is based on minority struggle. 
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:loco:  Do you understand how racist that statement is?

 
i feel the need to apologize for a lot of other larooshes who are white i mean cripes just go in any of the politics threads around here man we should all be apologizing to the internet that is all i am sayin take that to the bank brochachos

 
Here's something that I've always wondered.  If a black person is born in France, then goes to the US of A but isn't a citizen here, what do you call him?  He's not American.  Do you call him a African-French person?

 
cstu said:
It's strange that anyone would need to tell kids not to apologize for the color of their skin.
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Your post presents a good opportunity to show the double-standard that contributes to resentment which, in turn, contributes to what can be construed as the defensive tone we see from the father.

Dear black people: Never apologize for being black, by Dr. Boyce Watkins (Video)

I have no problem with Dr. Watkins' message.  If it helps black children who may be experiencing mixed emotions about their racial identity due to signals that they're picking up in society to have a more positive image of themselves or black people on the whole I think that's great.  Apparently, so does polite society.  That's why Dr. Watkins gets invited to CNN, MSNBC, and other media outlets to share his views.

So we're left with a message from the media, academia, and society that "never apologize for being black" is legitimate, respectable, and to be admired while ""never apologize for being white" is illegitimate, disrespectable, and to be admonished.

You can argue all day long that there are historical, sociological, or political reasons for that double standard, but at a base, human level people will react emotionally and get defensive when they believe that laws or social rules are being applied unfairly against their group.  For example, you can cite police shooting statistics all day long to argue against the belief that there's a police war on black men, but if a black person feels that black men are being singled out in a police war then statistics or what someone else interprets as a logical argument is unlikely to sway them.  That's because most decisions and beliefs are made on an emotional level.  As long as members of a group feel that a double-standard is being applied against them, members of that group will emotionally buck against that double-standard.

 
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MaxThreshold said:
Very good question.  I don't have any guilt, but maybe you should direct this question to those posters who have that guilt or are trying to put it on others.
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Who is doing that? I just see people who understand that one race brutally and systematically victimized another and that there are still ripples in the social fabric from that and as a result there is delicate context to races showing pride. No, many of us were not responsible for any of this behavior. But there are people walking around who experienced segregation. Who experienced fire hoses and dogs. Who experienced vicious hate from all corners, most notably the law. And you have their children who have to consider their mothers/fathers/grandparents/loved ones enduring these horrors and indignities. Yeah, there might be a few with chips on their shoulders and the whole thing is worthy of granting wide berth. A recently oppressed race demonstrating pride is not the same thing as the oppressing race demonstrating pride. Again, it is mind-boggling that something this painfully obvious needs to be explained to anybody.

 
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Thread reminds me of a classic Chris Rock bit (tried to censor the best I could):

[impersonating a white guy] “Well that’s not fair, you can say whatever you want. You can say ni***r.”

Well yeah, but last time I checked that’s the only advantage I have for being black. Wanna switch places? You can scream “ni***” and I’ll raise interest rates. It’s the first time in the history of the world where the white men have to watch their tongue. That’s how life works. Sometimes the people with the most sh** have to shut up and let other people talk sh** about them. Sometimes the people with the most sh** get to say the least ####, and the people with the least sh** get to say the most sh**, so if you wanna say more sh**, get rid of some of your s***. For instance, fat girls can say whatever they want to about skinny girls.

“Fu***n skinny b***h….anorexic skinny b**h…f'%^%^ cheerio belt wearin bi#$%…salad eatin mother$$%er. I hope she chokes on her crouton”

But skinny girls can’t say anything about fat girls. That’s just mean.

“Look at these big bi%^es…do they freebase gravy? Food is not your friend.”

For instance, short guys can talk about tall guys all they want.

“Tall *******, I hope your head hits an air conditioning vent. I hope Bin laden flies a plane into your lips”

But tall guys can’t talk about short guys. That’s mean.

“Look at these midget motherf$%#s. Fee fi fo fum!”

Poor people can talk about rich people all they want.

“You rich ba$$$$$d. I hope your yacht hits an iceberg in the summer. I hope your Picasso falls off the wall and kills your mother. You f***** rich ba$$$$d.”

Rich people cant talk about poor people. That’s mean.

“Look at these broke bastards. We should raise the prices so we don’t have to see these people again. Is that Hyundai? With clothe interior? Ew!”

 
Apple Jack said:
Who is doing that? I just see people who understand that one race brutally and systematically victimized another and that there are still ripples in the social fabric from that and as a result there is delicate context to races showing pride. No, many of us were not responsible for any of this behavior. But there are people walking around who experienced segregation. Who experienced fire hoses and dogs. Who experienced vicious hate from all corners, most notably the law. And you have their children who have to consider their mothers and fathers enduring these horrors and indignities. Yeah, there might be a few with chips on their shoulders and the whole thing is worthy of granting wide berth. A recently oppressed race demonstrating pride is not the same thing as the oppressing race demonstrating pride. Again, it is mind-boggling that something this painfully obvious needs to be explained to anybody.
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If you think about it,  you think that way about anyone who disagrees with you.  It boggles your mind someone would see something differently than yourself.  They must all be dumb and uninformed. 

 
Well, factually it was a comment about race. On whether it was racist, without more information it isn't clear. On the brief snapshot we've been provided, I'd go with not racist and give the benefit of the doubt. If the OP provided more info, perhaps it would be more clear. Can't tell given the limited info provided.

 
Deepster said:
Here's something that I've always wondered.  If a black person is born in France, then goes to the US of A but isn't a citizen here, what do you call him?  He's not American.  Do you call him a African-French person?
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You would say he is French, or black. Literally no one cares about the term "African American" except white people.

 
Uwe Blab said:
So my tweenage son was over hanging out at a neighbor's house down the street a bit last evening, playing with his similarly aged buddy. The kid's dad has the national news on and they start showing a BLM march. Neighbor's son asks what is the protest all about. My son says after the dad mentioned something about police brutality he says "Boys, always remember to treat people how you want to be treated." (Good here) Then he adds "Also always be proud of who you are....never apologize to anyone for being white."

My first reaction was to raise an eyebrow and give an internal grimace but then the words themselves are pretty benign. What do you all think? Little too "white power-y" for your liking or no problemo,  fine message?  Start hiding WW2 memorabilia?  I just kind of stumbled around and gave my son the generic "Oh, really? Hmmm." 
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It's a stupid comment. When are you ever asked to apologize for being white.

You don't.

 
bagger said:
It's a stupid comment. When are you ever asked to apologize for being white.

You don't.
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There are ever increasing calls from the media and academia for white people to "check their [white] privilege" and disavow it.  Especially on college campuses.  Many white people, based on the tone that the white privilege message is often delivered, view it as them being pressured to apologize for being white.  It's quite common.  Common enough for TIME magazine opinion pieces.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
There are ever increasing calls from the media and academia for white people to "check their [white] privilege" and disavow it.  Especially on college campuses.  Many white people, based on the tone that the white privilege message is often delivered, view it as them being pressured to apologize for being white.  It's quite common.  Common enough for TIME magazine opinion pieces.
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Many white people are idiots.

 
Gary Coal Man said:
There are ever increasing calls from the media and academia for white people to "check their [white] privilege" and disavow it.  Especially on college campuses.  Many white people, based on the tone that the white privilege message is often delivered, view it as them being pressured to apologize for being white.  It's quite common.  Common enough for TIME magazine opinion pieces.
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Wait, are you suggesting that a statement which, while benign when taken at face value, can seem to have subtle racist undertones based on the context in which it is delivered?

 
Gary Coal Man said:
There are ever increasing calls from the media and academia for white people to "check their [white] privilege" and disavow it.  Especially on college campuses.  Many white people, based on the tone that the white privilege message is often delivered, view it as them being pressured to apologize for being white.  It's quite common.  Common enough for TIME magazine opinion pieces.
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WE SHALL OVERRRRRRCOMMMMMEEEE

 
bagger said:
It's a stupid comment. When are you ever asked to apologize for being white.

You don't.
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I could be wrong but seems some folks are getting too hung-up on the "never apologize" part. In the OP, guy says (first and foremost) "Boys, always remember to treat people how you want to be treated." Seems like he's making it clear they should apply the Golden Rule above all else. He goes on to say never apologize for being white. Maybe, at that moment, he's looking at two white kids who are confused (possibly scared/frustrated/etc) about what they are seeing on tv/happening in this country. Again, I could certainly be wrong but I think he's basically telling them not to let anyone make them feel guilty for being white just because other white people have done horrible things and/or have drawn the anger of other people.

 
CBusAlex said:
Wait, are you suggesting that a statement which, while benign when taken at face value, can seem to have subtle racist undertones based on the context in which it is delivered?
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Sure.  I've acknowledged that and haven't said anything to suggest otherwise.  Several of my posts have suggested that the father's comment may have been grounded in racial defensiveness or resentment, but I don't think either of those have to be construed as "racist".  Many white people also misconstrue black defensiveness or resentment as "racism".  Just slapping the "racist" label on any expression of racial disenchantment doesn't help the situation, it hurts it.  When that happens people feel that their legitimate concerns are not only being dismissed but also demonized.  So those people turn to other people pushed to the margins who will listen to and share their beliefs.  Those sub-groups of the population are always more radical than the general population.  That's why Muslims who feel Muslim concerns are being dismissed are ripe for Us vs. Them radicalization, and that's why black people like the Dallas and Baton Rouge shooters who feel black concerns are being dismissed are ripe for Us vs. Them radicalization.  It's baffling to me why people would assume that white folk would be any different.  Reject any and all expression of racial grievance as "racist", and you'll create more racists.   

 
She's certainly proud of her whiteness. 

The Illinois Republican Party on Wednesday revoked credentials from one of its delegates to the Republican National Convention who made racially charged comments online and used the social media handle "whitepride," The Chicago Tribune reported.
Lori Gayne, a Trump delegate, posted on a photo of police officers to her Facebook on the opening day of the RNC, according to the report.




 




"Our brave snipers just waiting for some “N—- to try something. Love them," the caption read,according to the Chicago Sun-Times.


 
Gayne hadn't shied away from her racially charged Internet persona prior to the convention, either. The Tribune reported on Gayne's use of the social media handle "whitepride" in a profile on the state's delegates published back in May. She told the newspaper at the time that she was "proud to be white."

"Just like black people are proud to be black and now, as white people, whenever we say something critical we're punished as if we're racists," Gayne told the Tribune. "I'm tired of it. I'm very proud."

 
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