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Never Biden Movement (1 Viewer)

jon_mx said:
I did not realize she already committed.  But I will honor Tim's bet, but she has to maintain support through the election. 
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So no payoff until after election day. 

And how do you define maintaining support as I would hate to see you get out on some technicality. 

 
What is happening is boomers are turning out in record numbers for Joe Biden.  He truly is the boomer whisperer.  The disparity between Biden/Sanders in over40/under40 voters is massive.  

The thing is young voters are turning out in record numbers.  They’re just completely swamped by boomers with their brains plugged into CNN that fell for the electability meme.  

Joe Biden is a horrible candidate, with a horrible record.  The move to sit this one out is very real.  Democrats need to learn not to take progressive support for granted just because they calibrate their bar to Trump, and shoving garbage centrists down the party’s throat instead of something actually good.  

 
jon_mx said:
Not in this forum so much, because rabid hatred of Trump dominates.  But outside this Bubble, there are some (4 to 20?) percent who it is a thing for.  
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You are probably on with that percentage range.  The Michigan exit polls for the dems had 16% that said they wouldn't vote blue no matter who and it had to be their guy or bust.  

 
I have no doubt there are some Bernie Bros out there that won't vote for what they see as an establishment candidate.  But I'd have to imagine that there will be far fewer of them than last time when the establishment candidate was much more hated, when the notion was floating out there that they'd had the nomination stolen from them through cheating, AND when they thought Trump had no real chance and they could sit at home out of spite and have no consequences from it.

 
Max Power said:
You are probably on with that percentage range.  The Michigan exit polls for the dems had 16% that said they wouldn't vote blue no matter who and it had to be their guy or bust.  
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Those numbers will fade. 

There are major, significant divisions in the Democratic Party and those divisions are NOT going away- they may even ultimately be irreconcilable. But you won’t see them on display in November. Get rid of Trump first- that will be the almost universal sentiment. 

 
Max Power said:
You are probably on with that percentage range.  The Michigan exit polls for the dems had 16% that said they wouldn't vote blue no matter who and it had to be their guy or bust.  
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And 6% of Republicans voted against Trump in the Mi primary. None of those people will be voting for Trump either.

 
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Sinn Fein said:
As for AOC - put me in the camp that she will 100% support Biden in the fall.

Maybe some of this news is getting lost with all the madness - but the Sanders camp is already a bit miffed at her as she pulled back from the campaign trail, and refused to show up at events with Sanders.

AOC is a lot of things, and one of those things is she is a very skilled politician.  She may rub some people the wrong way, but she knows how to work a crowd, how to work a room, and how to keep advancing her causes.  I have noticed that in the last month, she has shied away from Sanders, and put more energy into spreading her own message.  She sees the writing on the wall, and knows she will have to co-exist with a Biden administration, and she will be a big part of the Dem presence in DC.

She will support Biden, and she will continue to push him to the left on certain issues.
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If she really wanted to help she would support Trump.

 
Widbil83 said:
Actually if you comb the Bernie and primary threads we have several never Biden Democrats here on this forum. 
 

Outside of the Democrat playpen here I know several. It’s actually much worse than 2016.
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I'm one of them. There absolutely is a never Biden movement.  No idea how big it is... but I can assure you it's real. 

I've never understood vote blue no matter who. If a candidate takes an oppositional stance on most issues I care about they don't deserve my vote. I'll certainly give them a chance to move my way and earn it, but nobody is owed it. If team blue does something about lefty issues that are clearly gaining steam then team blue will get lefty votes... pretty easy.

That all said... I was not planning on voting for either Biden or Trump BUT given how badly Trump has screwed up this Covid-19 thing I may end up holding my nose and voting for Biden. Either way I'm done with the Democrats after this election.

 
Sinn Fein said:
If that's the case - then you and the candidate are not in the same party.

hth
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I agree, and I won't be after this election. For 2020 lefties have a choice of the "mostly right" and "crazy right" parties so we're making due with what we have.

 
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KiddLattimer said:
I'm one of them. There absolutely is a never Biden movement.  No idea how big it is... but I can assure you it's real. 

I've never understood vote blue no matter who. If a candidate takes an oppositional stance on most issues I care about they don't deserve my vote. I'll certainly give them a chance to move my way and earn it, but nobody is owed it. If team blue does something about lefty issues that are clearly gaining steam then team blue will get lefty votes... pretty easy.

That all said... I was not planning on voting for either Biden or Trump BUT given how badly Trump has screwed up this Covid-19 thing I may end up holding my nose and voting for Biden. Either way I'm done with the Democrats after this election.
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“Vote blue no matter who” is not a thing that you would never understand because it’s not a lasting idea. It’s unique to this election only. It’s premised on the idea that 4 more years of Trump represents an existential threat.   

 
timschochet said:
“Vote blue no matter who” is not a thing that you would never understand because it’s not a lasting idea. It’s unique to this election only. It’s premised on the idea that 4 more years of Trump represents an existential threat.   
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Yes, I understand.

My point is if everyone voted for the issues they believed in, the Trump problem would likely take care of itself.

 
FreeBaGeL said:
I have no doubt there are some Bernie Bros out there that won't vote for what they see as an establishment candidate.  But I'd have to imagine that there will be far fewer of them than last time when the establishment candidate was much more hated, when the notion was floating out there that they'd had the nomination stolen from them through cheating, AND when they thought Trump had no real chance and they could sit at home out of spite and have no consequences from it.
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This is it right here. Nobody is taking DT lightly this time. And Biden raises fewer haters than Hillary.

 
5 weeks ago, I didn't think Biden had a chance and Trump was going to be a very formidable opponent no matter who went against him.

Complete 180 for me now.  Biden was my least favorites of the moderates but had no problem voting for him in the primary.  Didn't hurt that the field got thinned but still, voted for Biden even though Im still not excited about it.

Also think Trump's days are numbered.  Didn't see the economy tanking before the election (hard to predict this one) but now that things are unraveling, I don't see it being put back together this year.

 
Widbil83 said:
Actually if you comb the Bernie and primary threads we have several never Biden Democrats here on this forum. 
 

Outside of the Democrat playpen here I know several. It’s actually much worse than 2016.
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Be a lot more Black voters excited about Biden over Bernie that will more than make up that difference. Can't quite understand why that large part of the Democratic party just were unwilling to vote for any of the other candidates except Biden

 
lazyike said:
Never Biden Movement.....dream on. Primary exit polls indicate the biggest motivation is picking one they feel can defeat Trump. Democrats and Independent voters are so anxious to vote for anybody but Trump in November records are going to be broken in regards to voter turnout, no matter who the Dem candidate is. 
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Don’t agree with this.  The Bernie supporters I know have no love for Biden.  A lot of them will stay at home come Election Day if Biden is the candidate.  Not good logic to compare primary results to potential general election results.  They are running non stop ads by the Sanders camp where I am at where Joe states that he tried to cut social security three times, he sounds awful in the sound bite.  Sanders will stay in the primary until the end, he has the money and the supporters.  Bernie will expose sleepy Joe in the upcoming debates.  I have voted Democratic in every presidential election since Carter, but cannot pull the lever for Joe, big mistake to think people will vote for anyone to defeat Trump.

 
Gopher State said:
Don’t agree with this.  The Bernie supporters I know have no love for Biden.  A lot of them will stay at home come Election Day if Biden is the candidate.  Not good logic to compare primary results to potential general election results.  They are running non stop ads by the Sanders camp where I am at where Joe states that he tried to cut social security three times, he sounds awful in the sound bite.  Sanders will stay in the primary until the end, he has the money and the supporters.  Bernie will expose sleepy Joe in the upcoming debates.  I have voted Democratic in every presidential election since Carter, but cannot pull the lever for Joe, big mistake to think people will vote for anyone to defeat Trump.
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So you keep telling us, but I am really skeptical based on posts from you I have seen in this forum and before that in the FFA.

 
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If Sanders supporters want to end their movement set home and let Trump win. 4 more years of Trump appointing judges and everything you want and wish for will be stopped by the courts. 

 
Mile High said:
If Sanders supporters want to end their movement set home and let Trump win. 4 more years of Trump appointing judges and everything you want and wish for will be stopped by the courts. 
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That’s fine.  Joe Biden offers them nothing.  Let him lose to Trump. Maybe they go 3rd party or start a new one since the Ds just ignore them now.  The important thing is don’t vote for Joe Biden in November.  

 
The Bidengys In this thread assured us this wasn’t a real thing. Ruh roh.

“We will never – NEVER boost or support Joe Biden or defend his abysmal record and terrible policy positions,” Henry Williams, executive director of The Gravel Institute, told The Post. “We will tell people, as we always have, to vote their conscience and to make decisions based on the interests of all the world’s oppressed people … I do expect a massive exodus from the Democratic Party.”

Williams, along with David Oks and Henry Magowan, are the driving forces behind the brief presidential campaign of Mike Gravel, an 89-year-old former Alaska senator who left the race in August. The trio then became enthusiastic Bernie Bros.

“I don’t know if I could vote for Biden,” said a high-profile local Democratic Socialist. “Biden is just an old white guy who inspires nobody. I sincerely think he will lose the electoral and popular vote and I know I won’t be voting for him in New York.”

The grumbling from Sanders die-hards is no idle threat. A whopping 12% of them voted for Trump in 2016, according to an analysis by Cooperative Congressional Election Study. That added up to roughly 216,000 voters in Michigan, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin, exit polls showed. Trump’s combined margin of victory in those states was 77,744.

An untold number of additional Sanders fans almost certainly stayed home or voted third party in 2016 in an election plagued by low turnout on both sides. Green Party candidate Jill Stein earned more votes in each rust-belt battleground than the margin separating Trump from Hillary Clinton. One of those Jill Stein voters was Briahna Joy Gray — Sanders’ current campaign spokesperson.
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https://nypost.com/2020/03/14/bernie-bros-warn-of-massive-exodus-if-democrats-nominate-joe-biden/

 
Widbil83 said:
Actually if you comb the Bernie and primary threads we have several never Biden Democrats here on this forum. 
 

Outside of the Democrat playpen here I know several. It’s actually much worse than 2016.
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To clarify, are you saying the Never Biden group this year will be larger than the Never Hillary group from 2016?

 
msudaisy26 said:
You really think we will have over 60 percent voter turnout? I would be very surprised. 
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One concern I do have is that while the heat of the summer will likely see this coronavirus come to an end, without a vaccine this fall could see those concerns keep voter turnout lower than I currently expect.

 
While I do think there will be some people that don't vote for Biden, they would mainly be unreliable voters who don't typically vote anyway, not historical democratic voters that don't show up. I think we should all take these never Bidens with a huge grain of salt seeing as how it is almost entirely being pushed by right wing websites/posters with an agenda. 

I mean, it would be good to have more new voters, but I don't think turnout will be out of line from past elections (whether that is good or not is up for debate). 

 
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huthut said:
While I do think there will be some people that don't vote for Biden, they would mainly be unreliable voters who don't typically vote anyway, not historical democratic voters that don't show up. I think we should all take these never Bidens with a huge grain of salt seeing as how it is almost entirely being pushed by right wing websites and posters with an agenda. 
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 They only seem to want to vote in primaries for Sanders. 

 
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Widbil83 said:
Significantly larger IMO. I’ve been over this numerous times about knowing a large group of Bernie supporters in Iowa (including my brother), and these people are so much more negative about Biden this cycle. Much worse than 2016. 
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Wow.  That is impressive.  HRC was such a horrendously terrible and amazingly awful candidate I don't know how anyone could have eclipsed that even over the next 200 years.  She was so bad that even Donald Trump beat her.

 
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