New York Giants Defense (1 Viewer)

[footballman_696969]

Why did the Giants, who finished 6th in the league in 2008 with 42 sacks, drop down to 32 sacks last year which was tied for 18th in the league? They got Osi back from injury last year and they finish with ten less sacks? I would figure the Giants to have one of the most dominant defensive lines in the league with Osi, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. I didn't get a chance to watch many Giants games last year so I'm going to need some Giants homers to chime in on this one. What am I missing??

 

[Avery]

Why did the Giants, who finished 6th in the league in 2008 with 42 sacks, drop down to 32 sacks last year which was tied for 18th in the league? They got Osi back from injury last year and they finish with ten less sacks? I would figure the Giants to have one of the most dominant defensive lines in the league with Osi, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. I didn't get a chance to watch many Giants games last year so I'm going to need some Giants homers to chime in on this one. What am I missing??

Ooff. Hate to relive last year... but off the top of my head:1. Kenny Phillips injured: This was huge. Giants had no depth at safety and were forced to start signees like Rouse and even move CB Ross to safety for a few weeks.

2. Osi sucked: Maybe he wasn't over his injury and maybe he was in a slump but he was constantly rushing so wide he was getting little QB pressure and was horrific against the run.

3. Bill ####### Sheriden: As DC he was in way over his head. The defensive schemes lacked imagination and he was seemingly incapable of in game adjustments.

4. DTs underperformed: Off season signees Rocky Bernard was a disappointment and Chris Canty seemingly never got over an early season hamstring unjury. Add to that DT torn his ACL and a position that seemed to have great depth going into the season became very thin.

5. Tuck injured: Tuck torn his shoulder on the second game of the season by (now) professional turnstile and cheap shot artist extraordinaire Flozell Adams. He played through but was clearly playing with an arm and a half for the rest of the season.

So, it appears that the Giants addressed most of the areas of concern.

Signed Rolle and Grant at safety plus drafted Chad Jones in the 3rd to address depth at safety and cover for Kenny Phillips if his rehab falters. Hired Perry Fewell who appears to be a major upgrade over Sheridan. Drafted DL in the first two rounds to add more depth to the DL.

The last area of concern in LB, especially MLB, where the Giants seem content to let Goff, Wilkinson, and 4th round pick Philip Dillard fight it out to replace Antonio Pierce.

 

[Liquid Tension]

Why did the Giants, who finished 6th in the league in 2008 with 42 sacks, drop down to 32 sacks last year which was tied for 18th in the league? They got Osi back from injury last year and they finish with ten less sacks? I would figure the Giants to have one of the most dominant defensive lines in the league with Osi, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. I didn't get a chance to watch many Giants games last year so I'm going to need some Giants homers to chime in on this one. What am I missing??

Ooff. Hate to relive last year... but off the top of my head:1. Kenny Phillips injured: This was huge. Giants had no depth at safety and were forced to start signees like Rouse and even move CB Ross to safety for a few weeks.

2. Osi sucked: Maybe he wasn't over his injury and maybe he was in a slump but he was constantly rushing so wide he was getting little QB pressure and was horrific against the run.

3. Bill ####### Sheriden: As DC he was in way over his head. The defensive schemes lacked imagination and he was seemingly incapable of in game adjustments.

4. DTs underperformed: Off season signees Rocky Bernard was a disappointment and Chris Canty seemingly never got over an early season hamstring unjury. Add to that DT torn his ACL and a position that seemed to have great depth going into the season became very thin.

5. Tuck injured: Tuck torn his shoulder on the second game of the season by (now) professional turnstile and cheap shot artist extraordinaire Flozell Adams. He played through but was clearly playing with an arm and a half for the rest of the season.

So, it appears that the Giants addressed most of the areas of concern.

Signed Rolle and Grant at safety plus drafted Chad Jones in the 3rd to address depth at safety and cover for Kenny Phillips if his rehab falters. Hired Perry Fewell who appears to be a major upgrade over Sheridan. Drafted DL in the first two rounds to add more depth to the DL.

The last area of concern in LB, especially MLB, where the Giants seem content to let Goff, Wilkinson, and 4th round pick Philip Dillard fight it out to replace Antonio Pierce.

I would say the main reason was Tuck getting injured in week 2. The other points mentioned are spot on, but I would have Sheridan as #2, Osi not fully recovered/sucked as #3 and the DT's not playing well along with losing their good pass rushing DT Alford in pre season was tough as well. Finally, the linebackers are/were weak so it was the perfect storm of poor play. There is zero question in my mind the Giants defense will be a lot better

 

[Bri]

Horribly weak LB corps, injuries, players out of position.

Giants can boast of some awesome LBs the last 20-30 years that were the heart of their defenses. Right now it's pitiful by comparison as they try to get average to below-average players to pretend they're stars. It looks like not acquiring a big deal MLB is going to be a huge regret for them in 2010.

 

[kentric]

I'd say a combination of injuries and the players losing faith in Sheriden. Osi's injury was a serious one which I heard typically takes at least a full year to work through. Although he came back, he wasn't 100%. Tuck's injury hurt quite a bit and the DTs as a unit underperformed and got hurt.

Hopefully this year the combination of a new DC and a healthy Def. Line will produce results. That and Osi taking his head out of his posterior. I also think the new DE will add some fire. He may end up out of position half his plays, but he will be a force to be reconed with.

 

[Avery]

Horribly weak LB corps, injuries, players out of position.Giants can boast of some awesome LBs the last 20-30 years that were the heart of their defenses. Right now it's pitiful by comparison as they try to get average to below-average players to pretend they're stars. It looks like not acquiring a big deal MLB is going to be a huge regret for them in 2010.

FWIW, top tier linebackers do not seem to be a necessity in Fewell's defense. The focus seems to be on secondary and DL. It is astounding how much better linebackers look when the DL brings pressure and eat up defenders.

 

[netnalp]

Fewell's Defenses also funnel things towards the WLB with DE's wide. Curious as to how it runs. Is it like a combination og a 3-4 and 4-3 where the LB are shifted towards the TE, so they are positioned where the two ILB and SLB are in a 3-4? Sounds that they Drafted Linval because they want a big run stopper at DT near the RG and then the other DT to be speedier like Canty or Tuck.

--------------------WLB--------MLB

---------DE------DT-------DT-------DE----SLB

like that?

 

[Bri]

Horribly weak LB corps, injuries, players out of position.Giants can boast of some awesome LBs the last 20-30 years that were the heart of their defenses. Right now it's pitiful by comparison as they try to get average to below-average players to pretend they're stars. It looks like not acquiring a big deal MLB is going to be a huge regret for them in 2010.

FWIW, top tier linebackers do not seem to be a necessity in Fewell's defense. The focus seems to be on secondary and DL. It is astounding how much better linebackers look when the DL brings pressure and eat up defenders.

There's never been a top D(well that I can think of) that didn't have good LBs. Sure one can say great LBs aren't necessary but...cmon they need good ones at least.I don't agree with your DL thoughts so much as I'm just used to a little different thinking. DL eat up space and linemen during the runs. As far as pressure, they make the DBs life easier/look better. Maybe that's ticky-tack though by me.Too many times last year I felt like the Giants DL was rushing the passer when it's a run, reacting to a run when it's a pass. I felt like they knew (as did I) that they were the first and only line of defense. If the ball got past them, a big play was very likely. It's too much for them. They need to be able to feel like they can play, almost with reckless abandon, and no matter what, there's a 2nd line of defense that'll stop the ball. Lining up in what they believe is a run formation on 3rd down or a simple fake handoff to the RB shouldn't render them ineffective. They need less mental pressure so that they can apply pass rush pressure.

 

[Mikey16x]

I don't think our LB Corps is that weak. Sure, we don't have a star in there but we have hardworking players. Boley is decent and they use Kiwanuka at strong side sometimes. I think we'll be fine.

 

[Avery]

Horribly weak LB corps, injuries, players out of position.Giants can boast of some awesome LBs the last 20-30 years that were the heart of their defenses. Right now it's pitiful by comparison as they try to get average to below-average players to pretend they're stars. It looks like not acquiring a big deal MLB is going to be a huge regret for them in 2010.

FWIW, top tier linebackers do not seem to be a necessity in Fewell's defense. The focus seems to be on secondary and DL. It is astounding how much better linebackers look when the DL brings pressure and eat up defenders.

There's never been a top D(well that I can think of) that didn't have good LBs. Sure one can say great LBs aren't necessary but...cmon they need good ones at least.

I agree and I think the Giants LB corps is or can be good when the D-line can bring some defensive pressure and eat up some blockers. Even Ray Lewis has looked merely mortal in his career when he doesn't have the big boys up front bringing pressure and occupying bodies letting him run free to the play.

I don't agree with your DL thoughts so much as I'm just used to a little different thinking. DL eat up space and linemen during the runs. As far as pressure, they make the DBs life easier/look better. Maybe that's ticky-tack though by me.

I'm honestly not sure what you're disagreeing with here. Are you saying that pressure from the D-line doesn't help the linebackers? I'm not real clear.

 

[Jene Bramel]

Fewell's Defenses also funnel things towards the WLB with DE's wide. Curious as to how it runs. Is it like a combination og a 3-4 and 4-3 where the LB are shifted towards the TE, so they are positioned where the two ILB and SLB are in a 3-4? Sounds that they Drafted Linval because they want a big run stopper at DT near the RG and then the other DT to be speedier like Canty or Tuck. --------------------WLB--------MLB---------DE------DT-------DT-------DE----SLB like that?

Fewell runs a lot of Over-Under fronts, sometimes with a Tampa-2 coverage, sometimes with a more aggressive front seven blitzing philosophy (the latter being similar to what the Giants had done on nickel downs in recent years). For the most part, the linebackers are stacked behind the line, with the front four shifted toward the strong (Over) or weak (Under) side of the offensive line.Depending on the talent at LDE, sometimes that end is split wide in a 9-technique (outside the TE), other times not. You're correct that the tackles play a NT/DT like alignment, with one shaded outside a guard and the other slanted off the center. Oftentimes, both tackles will be penetrating players, one with more size than the other, but it's not uncommon to see one space-eater and one quick, upfield tackle.If you're interested in more details about those kind of fronts, there are posts in threads linked in my sig about the defensive tackles in an underfront (defensive line techniques link) and why the WLB may see more action in an underfront (Tampa-2 link). Both threads have alignment diagrams.

 

[Tanner9919]

Why did the Giants, who finished 6th in the league in 2008 with 42 sacks, drop down to 32 sacks last year which was tied for 18th in the league? They got Osi back from injury last year and they finish with ten less sacks? I would figure the Giants to have one of the most dominant defensive lines in the league with Osi, Tuck, and Kiwanuka. I didn't get a chance to watch many Giants games last year so I'm going to need some Giants homers to chime in on this one. What am I missing??

rampant injuries to secondary and a joke of a LB corps.they kept Antonio Pierce in the middle two years past his prime - you could see his rapid decline during the SB year of 2007.they should've waived him in 2008.he was dreadful.