NFL Destroys Tapes | No Support of Audio Abuse (1 Viewer)

[AB in DC]

I for one believe that NE would never have won those Super Bowls without cheating and I think they got off easy.

the Packers and Eagles have a somewhat valid case....

Great comedy in this thread.

 

[mad sweeney]

I saw that the issue of miced up DL was covered but is that all there was to the extra 3 unauthorized frequencies in use by the Pats?

I do find it odd that they destroyed the tapes and said, Welp, that's it folks. We'll keep an eye out from now on.

As much as Pats fans don't want to admit it, the punishments they received confirmed the seriousness of their offenses and therefore in the minds of most outside of Boston haters on this board, the Pats dynasty is tarnished. They got caught in week 1 this year yet had tapes (plural) that needed to be destroyed which means their offenses were occuring well prior to this season. Looks like they dodged a bullet and Goodell didn't do them any favors by getting rid of the evidence. In the mind of this non Pat fan or hater, just a die hard NFL fan, their past achievements are always going to be in question, just like the Roid Boys of Baseball. And no amount of aggressive homerism will change that for me or millions of others.

It's too bad because until this (actually the SD outbursts bothered me) I admired them for their success (not that I didn't think they could've shared some of it), their management, many of their players and their class. But they're a tainted team now and having success now while under the microscope with this supremely talented team isn't going to change the fact that their coach is a dirty cheat and they may or may not have honestly earned their titles.

fixedTime to move on

Ignorance is bliss. You really thnk the general public is done with this? Because I'm sure that I still hear "steroids" nearly all the time Merriman gets discussed. And on every single sports show I've seen for the last week and a half is all full puns, songs with suggestive lyrics, nicknames etc... You don't get record punishments and then just say it's over, it's going to follow the team for the rest of the season and beyond. Get used to it, you're going to hear Belicheat and asterisk for a very long time. Just because keep saying it's over doesn't make it so, if that were true the Republicans would still have hold in Congress and phrases like "slam dunk" and "Heckuva job Brownie" wouldn't wake Bush advisers (those that haven't quit, resigned or been indicted) sweating in the middle of the night.Spygate, Belicheat, TapeGate, Cheatriots.... you're going to hear them for a long time and they're completely deserved because their coach got busted cheating. All season long, during the draft, preseason next year, every time they play the Jets etc...It's just simply not over. Think about Merriman, since he's a great example of what the Pats are going through. Even though he came back from suspension and played at ProBowl level, the steroid label still hangs over his head. And just becasue you call a cheater a cheat, doesn't make you a hater. Just means you've been paying attention to current events.

 

[Weapon of Mass Instruction]

This stinks to high heaven and makes me even more suspicious than before.

 

[Road Warriors]

I saw that the issue of miced up DL was covered but is that all there was to the extra 3 unauthorized frequencies in use by the Pats?

I do find it odd that they destroyed the tapes and said, Welp, that's it folks. We'll keep an eye out from now on.

As much as Pats fans don't want to admit it, the punishments they received confirmed the seriousness of their offenses and therefore in the minds of most outside of Boston haters on this board, the Pats dynasty is tarnished. They got caught in week 1 this year yet had tapes (plural) that needed to be destroyed which means their offenses were occuring well prior to this season. Looks like they dodged a bullet and Goodell didn't do them any favors by getting rid of the evidence. In the mind of this non Pat fan or hater, just a die hard NFL fan, their past achievements are always going to be in question, just like the Roid Boys of Baseball. And no amount of aggressive homerism will change that for me or millions of others.

It's too bad because until this (actually the SD outbursts bothered me) I admired them for their success (not that I didn't think they could've shared some of it), their management, many of their players and their class. But they're a tainted team now and having success now while under the microscope with this supremely talented team isn't going to change the fact that their coach is a dirty cheat and they may or may not have honestly earned their titles.

fixedTime to move on

Ignorance is bliss. You really thnk the general public is done with this? Because I'm sure that I still hear "steroids" nearly all the time Merriman gets discussed. And on every single sports show I've seen for the last week and a half is all full puns, songs with suggestive lyrics, nicknames etc... You don't get record punishments and then just say it's over, it's going to follow the team for the rest of the season and beyond. Get used to it, you're going to hear Belicheat and asterisk for a very long time. Just because keep saying it's over doesn't make it so, if that were true the Republicans would still have hold in Congress and phrases like "slam dunk" and "Heckuva job Brownie" wouldn't wake Bush advisers (those that haven't quit, resigned or been indicted) sweating in the middle of the night.Spygate, Belicheat, TapeGate, Cheatriots.... you're going to hear them for a long time and they're completely deserved because their coach got busted cheating. All season long, during the draft, preseason next year, every time they play the Jets etc...It's just simply not over. Think about Merriman, since he's a great example of what the Pats are going through. Even though he came back from suspension and played at ProBowl level, the steroid label still hangs over his head. And just becasue you call a cheater a cheat, doesn't make you a hater. Just means you've been paying attention to current events.

Do I really think the general public is done with this? Yup, sure do. They cheated. They got caught. They got punished. They'll likely be the butt of jokes for some time to come. But in our ADHD society, most of the rest of the world has moved on ( mostly to the McNabb race card issue ) This forum has a significant population that loves to bang on the Patriots. A select few posters that I see filling every thread about the tape incident with the same "Its not over"/"Its a coverup"/"This taints everything they've ever done"/"Belichick should be hung from the rafters" lines. And a select few Pats apolgists claiming "everyone does it" fills out the card and keeps threads alive long after they've served any useful purpose.

Calling a cheater a cheat doesn't make you a hater. Making sure you bring it up at every possible opportunity just might, though.

 

[Sweeper]

Destroying tapes? WTF? That would never happen in a serious investigation. The pathetic stance by the comissioner and the NFL in general makes me doubt the integrity of this game.

lol ... you're a funny guy.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

And just becasue you call a cheater a cheat, doesn't make you a hater. Just means you've been paying attention to current events.

I think that's an accurate statement.On the other hand, when you're one of 4 or 5 active posters who beats an issue to death and take the positions that they are unbiased and speak for millions of americans and equate the subject actions to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors such as the subject actions being characterized as commonplace by a significant percentage of past and present individuals directly involved in the league and refuse to consider the other frequently expressed observation that readily available down and distance information via computer analysis of game history making videotape of effectively little or no value, etc., etc. you run the risk of being labelled as a hater, even if you're being "completely objective" expressing "righteous indignation" who's "sole purpose" is to "preserve the integrity of the game". So in the end, I guess we're both going to have to deal with being labelled, either directly or through the teams that we are loyal to. I'm good with that.

 

[mad sweeney]

And just becasue you call a cheater a cheat, doesn't make you a hater. Just means you've been paying attention to current events.

I think that's an accurate statement.On the other hand, when you're one of 4 or 5 active posters who beats an issue to death and take the positions that they are unbiased and speak for millions of americans and equate the subject actions to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors such as the subject actions being characterized as commonplace by a significant percentage of past and present individuals directly involved in the league and refuse to consider the other frequently expressed observation that readily available down and distance information via computer analysis of game history making videotape of effectively little or no value, etc., etc. you run the risk of being labelled as a hater, even if you're being "completely objective" expressing "righteous indignation" who's "sole purpose" is to "preserve the integrity of the game".

So in the end, I guess we're both going to have to deal with being labelled, either directly or through the teams that we are loyal to. I'm good with that.

 

[BeachBums]

I saw that the issue of miced up DL was covered but is that all there was to the extra 3 unauthorized frequencies in use by the Pats?I do find it odd that they destroyed the tapes and said, Welp, that's it folks. We'll keep an eye out from now on.As much as Pats fans don't want to admit it, the punishments they received confirmed the seriousness of their offenses and therefore in the minds of most outside of Boston, the Pats dynasty is tarnished. They got caught in week 1 this year yet had tapes (plural) that needed to be destroyed which means their offenses were occuring well prior to this season. Looks like they dodged a bullet and Goodell didn't do them any favors by getting rid of the evidence. In the mind of this non Pat fan or hater, just a die hard NFL fan, their past achievements are always going to be in question, just like the Roid Boys of Baseball. And no amount of aggressive homerism will change that for me or millions of others. It's too bad because until this (actually the SD outbursts bothered me) I admired them for their success (not that I didn't think they could've shared some of it), their management, many of their players and their class. But they're a tainted team now and having success now while under the microscope with this supremely talented team isn't going to change the fact that their coach is a dirty cheat and they may or may not have honestly earned their titles.

<_<

 

[tombonneau]

The great thing about the American public is they have a short memory.

It wasn't that long ago that Marv Albert was dressing in lingerie and biting women. People said his career was over. He's been back announcing NBA games and radio broadcasts for years.

Camera Gate will of course be remembered by the public, but more as a punchline than a black eye.

 

[mozzy84]

The great thing about the American public is they have a short memory.

It wasn't that long ago that Marv Albert was dressing in lingerie and biting women. People said his career was over. He's been back announcing NBA games and radio broadcasts for years.



Camera Gate will of course be remembered by the public, but more as a punchline than a black eye.

probably true, I stiffer penalty would have made it more noteworthy, a little cash (little when you make ALOT) and a draft pick will be forgotten pretty quick.

 

[greenline]

Keep hanging on, folks. No one particuarly cares anymore and after hearing story after story of some of the lengths old time coaches went to collect info on other teams, this is miniscule.

 

[Bossman]

I think that's an accurate statement.On the other hand, when you're one of 4 or 5 active posters who beats an issue to death and take the positions that they are unbiased and speak for millions of americans and equate the subject actions to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors such as the subject actions being characterized as commonplace by a significant percentage of past and present individuals directly involved in the league and refuse to consider the other frequently expressed observation that readily available down and distance information via computer analysis of game history making videotape of effectively little or no value, etc., etc. you run the risk of being labelled as a hater, even if you're being "completely objective" expressing "righteous indignation" who's "sole purpose" is to "preserve the integrity of the game". So in the end, I guess we're both going to have to deal with being labelled, either directly or through the teams that we are loyal to. I'm good with that.

I'd like to nominate this post for the longest sentance ever used on a message board.and too all the haters:"....waaaah, my team should have won that playoff game / Super Bowl."you all sound rediculous.

 

[mad sweeney]

I think that's an accurate statement.On the other hand, when you're one of 4 or 5 active posters who beats an issue to death and take the positions that they are unbiased and speak for millions of americans and equate the subject actions to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors such as the subject actions being characterized as commonplace by a significant percentage of past and present individuals directly involved in the league and refuse to consider the other frequently expressed observation that readily available down and distance information via computer analysis of game history making videotape of effectively little or no value, etc., etc. you run the risk of being labelled as a hater, even if you're being "completely objective" expressing "righteous indignation" who's "sole purpose" is to "preserve the integrity of the game". So in the end, I guess we're both going to have to deal with being labelled, either directly or through the teams that we are loyal to. I'm good with that.

I'd like to nominate this post for the longest sentance ever used on a message board.and too all the haters:"....waaaah, my team should have won that playoff game / Super Bowl."you all sound rediculous.

But at least they're not cheaters. My team has never lost a playoff game/SB to the Pats. It's the Pats fans trying to brush this off as nothing that sound ridiculous. Some people still like Barry Bonds, so enjoy your team's "success" while you go down in history as the "dynasty" that got record fines/penalties for cheating.

 

[greenline]

I think that's an accurate statement.On the other hand, when you're one of 4 or 5 active posters who beats an issue to death and take the positions that they are unbiased and speak for millions of americans and equate the subject actions to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors such as the subject actions being characterized as commonplace by a significant percentage of past and present individuals directly involved in the league and refuse to consider the other frequently expressed observation that readily available down and distance information via computer analysis of game history making videotape of effectively little or no value, etc., etc. you run the risk of being labelled as a hater, even if you're being "completely objective" expressing "righteous indignation" who's "sole purpose" is to "preserve the integrity of the game". So in the end, I guess we're both going to have to deal with being labelled, either directly or through the teams that we are loyal to. I'm good with that.

I'd like to nominate this post for the longest sentance ever used on a message board.and too all the haters:"....waaaah, my team should have won that playoff game / Super Bowl."you all sound rediculous.

But at least they're not cheaters. My team has never lost a playoff game/SB to the Pats. It's the Pats fans trying to brush this off as nothing that sound ridiculous. Some people still like Barry Bonds, so enjoy your team's "success" while you go down in history as the "dynasty" that got record fines/penalties for cheating.

It's a great dynasty. Enjoy watching.

 

[twitch]

It's too bad because until this (actually the SD outbursts bothered me) I admired them for their success (not that I didn't think they could've shared some of it), their management, many of their players and their class. But they're a tainted team now and having success now while under the microscope with this supremely talented team isn't going to change the fact that their coach is a dirty cheat and they may or may not have honestly earned their titles.

I've messed around with you a little this past week, but mostly because it's funny how worked up you get over this. But at this point it's getting sad. This is clearly a huge issue for you, but it's over. The season will continue, the Patriots are preparing for another game this week, and the NFL has concluded its investigation. I hope for your sake you get to see your team win a championship at some point, so you understand why nobody cares whether you think their team was good enough to win the championship. Ask a Manning fan whether they care about his miserable numbers in the playoff last year, or a Steelers fan whether they care about the Seahawks' whining about the refs. At the end of the day, I can pinpoint three of the best days in my life, watching the Patriots not only win a world championship, but in an exciting, three point game. I don't even know which one is my favorite. The Rams game was so unexpected, they were two touchdown underdogs, and they got out to an early lead. Everyone in the room was speechless. When the Rams started to come back, you had that horrible feeling that, just like so many Red Sox and Patriots teams before, there was going to be a choke. But then this quarterback who wasn't even supposed to be there, who Belichick had unthinkably started despite the fact that he was nicked up over a healthy Bledsoe no less, led a drive that will be remembered by millions of fans, and certainly by me, for the rest of our lives. The Panthers game, when they were playing last-team-with-the-ball-wins football, was one of the most exciting games in Superbowl history. Both teams' defenses were battered and completely exhausted, both quarterbacks were playing at the absolute peak of their game, and the Patriots emerged victorious. I'm sorry that everyone can't have that feeling. And the Eagles game, when the best Patriots team of their Superbowl run ran into the best Eagles team of their NFCCG run, and Owens came back early from injury and risked his career to play on the biggest stage, and almost stopped a dynasty bound Patriots team on its tracks, until McNabb inexplicably couldn't run the two minute drill. Just incredible. I understand why you think that the world is hanging on what Mad Sweeney thinks of the Patriots' dynasty. I'm sure that it's really important to you that you have cast your vote against the Patriots and OFFICIALLY think they may not have honestly earned their titles. Which is why I really hope for your sake you get to see your team win, because then, maybe, you'll get it.

this covers alot of ground. well said, bf.

 

[bcr8f]

The Onion made copies!!!

 

[TD Ryan]

Link to article

Patriots won't be hit harder

NFL investigation reveals no further improprieties

By Mike Reiss, Globe Staff | September 21, 2007

FOXBOROUGH - There will be no further sanctions against the Patriots as a result of the NFL's investigation into the team's videotaping procedures, a league source confirmed last night.

According to the source, NFL commissioner Roger Goodell sent a memo to all 32 clubs last night in which he said he was satisfied the Patriots fully cooperated and complied with his instructions.

Goodell wrote that NFL staffers met twice with top Patriots officials and took possession of all tapes and documents relating to the team's videotaping of opposing signals. All materials were destroyed and the Patriots also certified in writing that no copies or other records exist, NFL spokesman Greg Aiello confirmed.

An NBC report during last Sunday night's Patriots-Chargers game, claiming the Jets alleged that the Patriots had illegally placed a microphone on a defensive player, was found to have no merit.

"We have no evidence to support that claim," Aiello said.

To ensure all teams are following the same guidelines, the league recently resent its game operations manual regarding videotaping and audio communications to each club. Teams will now be required to allow more access for NFL security and game operations officials, and the league plans to closely monitor the procedures of all 32 clubs.

Following the public firestorm of the Patriots' videotaping scandal - which included Colts coach Tony Dungy comparing Patriots coach Bill Belichick's situation to that of baseball slugger Barry Bonds - Goodell has also expressed concern to all teams regarding public allegations of cheating and illegal conduct. Earlier this week, Ravens coach Brian Billick accused the Jets of breaking the rules by illegally having defensive players simulate the quarterback's snap count.

Yesterday's developments put a cap on two of the most turbulent weeks in recent Patriots history.

The NFL ruled the Patriots illegally videotaped the signals of Jets defensive coaches in the Sept. 9 season opener. The videotape was seized in the first quarter and Goodell later said it had no impact on the result of the game, a 38-14 Patriots victory.

Belichick was fined $500,000 and the Patriots $250,000. The team will lose a 2008 first-round draft choice if it makes the playoffs, or 2008 second- and third-round choices if it does not qualify for the playoffs.

The NFL continues to investigate how the tape seized from Patriots assistant Matt Estrella was broadcast on Fox's pregame show last Sunday. The field-level tape showed Jets coaches giving signals to players, before panning to the scoreboard to indicate down and distance.

The content of the tape was part of what Goodell viewed when he deemed the Patriots violated the league's videotape procedures.

NFL rules state that "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game" and that all video shooting locations for club coaching purposes "must be enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

NFL executive vice president of football operations Ray Anderson had sent a memo in September 2006 reminding teams that "videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

Mike Reiss can be reached at mreiss@globe.com.

 

[bostonfred]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

 

[Statorama]

I also don't understand why the NFL would release these tapes to the media. Let's recap: the NFL demands the Pats turn over all of their files. The Patriots do. Then the NFL gives them to the media and tells them to air them. Do you see why the Patriots might not like this, even if there was nothing bad on the tapes? And I'm assuming, of course, that the Patriots made copies, and didn't just turn over everything they owned in a brown cardboard box. It's much easier to see a conspiracy here when the headline is "NFL destroys tapes", but the reality is that that's exactly what they should be doing.

They were explicitly told to not make any copies and I doubt the Patriots made copies against the wishes of this Commish. He agreed to destroy them and put this story to bed if the Patriots complied. This was why he KNEW the Patriots would comply when interviewed by Costas. There was nothing wishy-washy in his tone. He expected the Patriots to turn everything in as requested and NOT make copies. and I believe the Patriots did just that. There is way too big a price to pay to NOT do that. Especially when it looks like they have the best team in the NFL right now.

David, now come on. This was a team that had a cameraman 10 yards away from the opposing defensive coordinator SIX DAYS after Goddell warned all teams that doing that would not be tolerated. That's an incredible "the rules don't apply to us" type of arrogance.I just think it's incredibly naive to think that there are no copies just because the Patriots gave Goddell a 'pinky swear'.

I also don't see how Patriot fans can be so blind as to how big of a deal this is. Last week when the Pats just destroyed the Chargers, I was left with a feeling of "well of course they beat them, they probably did something underhanded like tape the defensive signals". I honestly can't watch the Patriots this season and NOT think they're doing something shady to get an advantage. That's a HUGE deal, and judging from the quotes on the board I'm not the only one that feels this way.

That said, I think it's time for the Saints to start cheating. I think we could come up with 5,000 fans to pay $100 each to help pay off the fine, and the Saints are horrible drafters anyway so the loss of a first rounder wouldn't hit them as hard as other teams. I'd certainly cough up $100 of my own money to see the Saints have the kind of success that the Patriots have had these past 10 years.

 

[Slinger]

*

 

[bostonfred]

I also don't understand why the NFL would release these tapes to the media. Let's recap: the NFL demands the Pats turn over all of their files. The Patriots do. Then the NFL gives them to the media and tells them to air them. Do you see why the Patriots might not like this, even if there was nothing bad on the tapes? And I'm assuming, of course, that the Patriots made copies, and didn't just turn over everything they owned in a brown cardboard box. It's much easier to see a conspiracy here when the headline is "NFL destroys tapes", but the reality is that that's exactly what they should be doing.

They were explicitly told to not make any copies and I doubt the Patriots made copies against the wishes of this Commish. He agreed to destroy them and put this story to bed if the Patriots complied. This was why he KNEW the Patriots would comply when interviewed by Costas. There was nothing wishy-washy in his tone. He expected the Patriots to turn everything in as requested and NOT make copies. and I believe the Patriots did just that. There is way too big a price to pay to NOT do that. Especially when it looks like they have the best team in the NFL right now.

David, now come on. This was a team that had a cameraman 10 yards away from the opposing defensive coordinator SIX DAYS after Goddell warned all teams that doing that would not be tolerated. That's an incredible "the rules don't apply to us" type of arrogance.I just think it's incredibly naive to think that there are no copies just because the Patriots gave Goddell a 'pinky swear'.

I also don't see how Patriot fans can be so blind as to how big of a deal this is. Last week when the Pats just destroyed the Chargers, I was left with a feeling of "well of course they beat them, they probably did something underhanded like tape the defensive signals". I honestly can't watch the Patriots this season and NOT think they're doing something shady to get an advantage. That's a HUGE deal, and judging from the quotes on the board I'm not the only one that feels this way.

That said, I think it's time for the Saints to start cheating. I think we could come up with 5,000 fans to pay $100 each to help pay off the fine, and the Saints are horrible drafters anyway so the loss of a first rounder wouldn't hit them as hard as other teams. I'd certainly cough up $100 of my own money to see the Saints have the kind of success that the Patriots have had these past 10 years.

Read the post right above yours. Yes, there was a memo. But do you see how Belichick could have thought that, since the rule specifically stated "from the start to the finish of any game", and "during the playing of the game", that it was legal to use the tape after the game? And as for the height of arrogance argument, can you tell me line by line the exact text of the memos you've received recently? Why do you hold Belichick to a higher standard? Is it because you think this is the only memo that the NFL ever sent out?

 

[Bossman]

David, now come on. This was a team that had a cameraman 10 yards away from the opposing defensive coordinator SIX DAYS after Goddell warned all teams that doing that would not be tolerated. That's an incredible "the rules don't apply to us" type of arrogance.

I just think it's incredibly naive to think that there are no copies just because the Patriots gave Goddell a 'pinky swear'.

I also don't see how Patriot fans can be so blind as to how big of a deal this is. Last week when the Pats just destroyed the Chargers, I was left with a feeling of "well of course they beat them, they probably did something underhanded like tape the defensive signals". I honestly can't watch the Patriots this season and NOT think they're doing something shady to get an advantage. That's a HUGE deal, and judging from the quotes on the board I'm not the only one that feels this way.

That said, I think it's time for the Saints to start cheating. I think we could come up with 5,000 fans to pay $100 each to help pay off the fine, and the Saints are horrible drafters anyway so the loss of a first rounder wouldn't hit them as hard as other teams. I'd certainly cough up $100 of my own money to see the Saints have the kind of success that the Patriots have had these past 10 years.

aaaa.... he was on the Patriots sideline. (disregard the photo some website posted of the Jets cameraman in what people mistakened for a Patriots employee)I'm dumbfounded by the people who are "in the know" that think this video tape issue could have made such a difference in games.

Common sense seems to be thrown out the window here. Some media / former players get it but I think most others in the media are playing to the national audience in an effort to get more backing / pub from thier readers / listeners. (no one gets excited about a story that says "this is much to do about nothing.... go on with your lives.")

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

And just becasue you call a cheater a cheat, doesn't make you a hater. Just means you've been paying attention to current events.

I think that's an accurate statement.On the other hand, when you're one of 4 or 5 active posters who beats an issue to death and take the positions that they are unbiased and speak for millions of americans and equate the subject actions to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors such as the subject actions being characterized as commonplace by a significant percentage of past and present individuals directly involved in the league and refuse to consider the other frequently expressed observation that readily available down and distance information via computer analysis of game history making videotape of effectively little or no value, etc., etc. you run the risk of being labelled as a hater, even if you're being "completely objective" expressing "righteous indignation" who's "sole purpose" is to "preserve the integrity of the game".

So in the end, I guess we're both going to have to deal with being labelled, either directly or through the teams that we are loyal to. I'm good with that.

I was going to leave this alone, but since others decided to bump the thread...

Let's be fair to Jeffrey Dahmer. Who else has killed a lot of people?

I'm not making this STUFF up.The fact that many means of gathering intel, including videotaping, has been commonplace around the league despite the fact that "rules were in place" does not excluse BB of culpibility, which is I why I support the penalties imposed. But the fact of the matter is, whenever the obvious fact of commonplace rule-breaking exists in the NFL, posters like you and the quoted individual above, equate the actions of one of many teams as equivalent to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors. Enjoy yourselves, because I'm done with your smear campaign hidden under the umbrella of rightious indignation.

 

[jonessed]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

Goodell made it pretty clear that he felt Belichick knew exactly what he was doing. His ruling doesn't leave a lot open for debate. The "interpretation of the rule" thing is ridiculous. There is no justification for what happened. He cheated, he knew he cheated, and it's now over.

 

[mad sweeney]

And just becasue you call a cheater a cheat, doesn't make you a hater. Just means you've been paying attention to current events.

I think that's an accurate statement.On the other hand, when you're one of 4 or 5 active posters who beats an issue to death and take the positions that they are unbiased and speak for millions of americans and equate the subject actions to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors such as the subject actions being characterized as commonplace by a significant percentage of past and present individuals directly involved in the league and refuse to consider the other frequently expressed observation that readily available down and distance information via computer analysis of game history making videotape of effectively little or no value, etc., etc. you run the risk of being labelled as a hater, even if you're being "completely objective" expressing "righteous indignation" who's "sole purpose" is to "preserve the integrity of the game".

So in the end, I guess we're both going to have to deal with being labelled, either directly or through the teams that we are loyal to. I'm good with that.

I was going to leave this alone, but since others decided to bump the thread...

Let's be fair to Jeffrey Dahmer. Who else has killed a lot of people?

I'm not making this STUFF up.The fact that many means of gathering intel, including videotaping, has been commonplace around the league despite the fact that "rules were in place" does not excluse BB of culpibility, which is I why I support the penalties imposed. But the fact of the matter is, whenever the obvious fact of commonplace rule-breaking exists in the NFL, posters like you and the quoted individual above, equate the actions of one of many teams as equivalent to murder or other haenously immoral act and refuse to consider any mitigating factors. Enjoy yourselves, because I'm done with your smear campaign hidden under the umbrella of rightious indignation.

X 1000Smear campaign!!! Dude gets record fines and penalties for cheating and calling him such is a smear campaign. Priceless. And then equating me calling a cheater a cheater to people defending Dahmer?! Oh my oh my this is too much.

As for mitigating factors, I would think a memo the week before the ifraction would be the most mitigating factor in the case. Other people do it is NOT a mitigating factor, especially when you're considered the vanguard of the movement.

As for equating this cheating at a game to heinous activity, well I don't even have a response to that it is so far out there, and I don't really recall ever coming close to saying anything that could even be construed as hinting at such a comparasin. But those with martyr complexes have to dig deep to reach for their own "righteous indignation" when their idols or heroes are proven to be cheats.

I'm sorry your team got spanked for cheating and will have the taint of it on them for a long time. I'm sorry that most of you out there can't accept the fact that the images can and were used real time (note the dogged persistence of the cameraman vs NFC opponents) to cheat within the game and that they were doing it for years. I'm sorry that you think that becuase others were doing it (proof?, link to others being caught and punished for it?) that it creates a "mitigating factor". And I'm sorry that despite your protestations that other than blind NE fans, this is not over and your team is tainted.

I'm calling in the rule that if you bring up the Nazis the argument is over and you lose, Dahmer's close enough to Hitler. That's just off the deep end.

Other people did it=mitigating factor

Calling Belicheat a cheater=defending Dahmer

I'm totally saving this post because of all the nonsense I've read from Vick to Boston to Ports to the Cheatriots, this is by far the most priceless.

Smear campaign

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

equating me calling a cheater a cheater to people defending Dahmer?! Oh my oh my this is too much.Calling Belicheat a cheater=defending Dahmer

You appear to be having some difficulty following some pretty basic logic, so I will try to use small words to help you understand.The relevant comparison is NOT comparing you to people defending Dahmer. The relevant comparison involves people being mocked for defending BB when they point out that signal stealing techniques including videotaping are commonplace, as noted recently by Jimmy Johnson, Barry Switzer and others. Such defenders are then compared to defenders of Dahmer because others commit murder. 1+1=2.

I'm sorry that most of you out there can't accept the fact that the images can and were used real time (note the dogged persistence of the cameraman vs NFC opponents) to cheat within the game and that they were doing it for years.

If you will be so kind as to provide a link? I thought not. Statements alleging fact absent fact = smear campaign. 2+2=4.Not every game is available in HD. But go on blaming DirecTV if you like. 4+4=8.

 

[Whizzinator]

Not only is there no evidence the images were used in-game, the former head coaches I've read have said it wouldn't have any value in-game anyway.

Belichick hasn't explained publically what his intepretation is, I don't believe, but it's been reported that he said he beleived the rule only applied to use of the information in-game.

 

[bostonfred]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

Goodell made it pretty clear that he felt Belichick knew exactly what he was doing. His ruling doesn't leave a lot open for debate. The "interpretation of the rule" thing is ridiculous. There is no justification for what happened. He cheated, he knew he cheated, and it's now over.

I know this. I agree that it was cheating, and I'm not trying to justify it with "the interpretation of the rule". I don't question that Belichick knew that there was a rule against filming during the game. I do think it's fair to question whether he was taping it with the intent to look at it to prepare for the next time they met, or to use it in game, which is one of the topics that has been up for discussion. If you believe his explanation, then what he was doing wasn't nearly as bad. I also think it's fair to question whether he was deliberately cheating, or trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. If you believe his explanation, then it seems like he was trying to exploit a loophole, which is not nearly as bad as deliberately cheating. Last but not least, if you believe his explanation, then there's less reason for the wild extrapolations that people have made that this means the Patriots were cheating in many other ways. But I agree that in game taping was against the rules, I agree that Goodell left no room for interpretation that the rules were broken, and I agree that he knew what he was doing was wrong. The reason that the specific rule he was referring to is important to me, even if it's not important to you, is that it leaves a lot more room for interpretation as to what they were really doing. As a fan who naturally wants to believe the best about his team, that's reassuring. And for someone like you who has been assuming the worst about the team, while I certainly don't expect it to change your mind, it should at least open the possibility that this wasn't as nefarious as you once believed.

 

[Sweeper]

 

[jonessed]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

Goodell made it pretty clear that he felt Belichick knew exactly what he was doing. His ruling doesn't leave a lot open for debate. The "interpretation of the rule" thing is ridiculous. There is no justification for what happened. He cheated, he knew he cheated, and it's now over.

I know this. I agree that it was cheating, and I'm not trying to justify it with "the interpretation of the rule". I don't question that Belichick knew that there was a rule against filming during the game. I do think it's fair to question whether he was taping it with the intent to look at it to prepare for the next time they met, or to use it in game, which is one of the topics that has been up for discussion. If you believe his explanation, then what he was doing wasn't nearly as bad. I also think it's fair to question whether he was deliberately cheating, or trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. If you believe his explanation, then it seems like he was trying to exploit a loophole, which is not nearly as bad as deliberately cheating. Last but not least, if you believe his explanation, then there's less reason for the wild extrapolations that people have made that this means the Patriots were cheating in many other ways. But I agree that in game taping was against the rules, I agree that Goodell left no room for interpretation that the rules were broken, and I agree that he knew what he was doing was wrong. The reason that the specific rule he was referring to is important to me, even if it's not important to you, is that it leaves a lot more room for interpretation as to what they were really doing. As a fan who naturally wants to believe the best about his team, that's reassuring. And for someone like you who has been assuming the worst about the team, while I certainly don't expect it to change your mind, it should at least open the possibility that this wasn't as nefarious as you once believed.

And Merriman was unknowingly taking tainted supplements.

 

[DropKick]

@ all the going on in here. Get over it fellas... move on with your lives

It is pretty obvious the NFL is doing some cover up. If I had been cheering for a bunch of cheaters for the last 6 years I would probably react the same way as you: complete denial.This fiasco only strengthens the notion that the Pats* indeed received some help (dating from the tuck rule) to build their "dynasty".

Obviously, you're just jealous of New England's success. If you think they're any different from other NFL teams in tactic or attempt to gain an advantage you're being a bit naive. Care to discuss how the Steeler's 70s SB teams were fueled heavily by 'roids? Hint: You can start with some denial.

 

[DropKick]

I saw that the issue of miced up DL was covered but is that all there was to the extra 3 unauthorized frequencies in use by the Pats?

I do find it odd that they destroyed the tapes and said, Welp, that's it folks. We'll keep an eye out from now on.

As much as Pats fans don't want to admit it, the punishments they received confirmed the seriousness of their offenses and therefore in the minds of most outside of Boston haters on this board, the Pats dynasty is tarnished. They got caught in week 1 this year yet had tapes (plural) that needed to be destroyed which means their offenses were occuring well prior to this season. Looks like they dodged a bullet and Goodell didn't do them any favors by getting rid of the evidence. In the mind of this non Pat fan or hater, just a die hard NFL fan, their past achievements are always going to be in question, just like the Roid Boys of Baseball. And no amount of aggressive homerism will change that for me or millions of others.

It's too bad because until this (actually the SD outbursts bothered me) I admired them for their success (not that I didn't think they could've shared some of it), their management, many of their players and their class. But they're a tainted team now and having success now while under the microscope with this supremely talented team isn't going to change the fact that their coach is a dirty cheat and they may or may not have honestly earned their titles.

fixedTime to move on

Ignorance is bliss. You really thnk the general public is done with this? Because I'm sure that I still hear "steroids" nearly all the time Merriman gets discussed. And on every single sports show I've seen for the last week and a half is all full puns, songs with suggestive lyrics, nicknames etc... You don't get record punishments and then just say it's over, it's going to follow the team for the rest of the season and beyond. Get used to it, you're going to hear Belicheat and asterisk for a very long time. Just because keep saying it's over doesn't make it so, if that were true the Republicans would still have hold in Congress and phrases like "slam dunk" and "Heckuva job Brownie" wouldn't wake Bush advisers (those that haven't quit, resigned or been indicted) sweating in the middle of the night.Spygate, Belicheat, TapeGate, Cheatriots.... you're going to hear them for a long time and they're completely deserved because their coach got busted cheating. All season long, during the draft, preseason next year, every time they play the Jets etc...It's just simply not over. Think about Merriman, since he's a great example of what the Pats are going through. Even though he came back from suspension and played at ProBowl level, the steroid label still hangs over his head. And just becasue you call a cheater a cheat, doesn't make you a hater. Just means you've been paying attention to current events.

No problem. I kind of like the fact it gives New England a new level of motivation. "They question our accomplishments".... etc.Blah blah blah, dude. The NFL decided to enforce a rule they were lax on in the past. New England got pinged. Big deal. They were one among many, of that I'm certain. Steroids, HGH, Chop blocks, Salary Cap violations... Give every team in the NFL a colonoscopy... I'm sure you'll come up with some crap.

But, hey! I'm glad you're paying attention.

 

[bostonfred]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

Goodell made it pretty clear that he felt Belichick knew exactly what he was doing. His ruling doesn't leave a lot open for debate. The "interpretation of the rule" thing is ridiculous. There is no justification for what happened. He cheated, he knew he cheated, and it's now over.

I know this. I agree that it was cheating, and I'm not trying to justify it with "the interpretation of the rule". I don't question that Belichick knew that there was a rule against filming during the game. I do think it's fair to question whether he was taping it with the intent to look at it to prepare for the next time they met, or to use it in game, which is one of the topics that has been up for discussion. If you believe his explanation, then what he was doing wasn't nearly as bad. I also think it's fair to question whether he was deliberately cheating, or trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. If you believe his explanation, then it seems like he was trying to exploit a loophole, which is not nearly as bad as deliberately cheating. Last but not least, if you believe his explanation, then there's less reason for the wild extrapolations that people have made that this means the Patriots were cheating in many other ways. But I agree that in game taping was against the rules, I agree that Goodell left no room for interpretation that the rules were broken, and I agree that he knew what he was doing was wrong. The reason that the specific rule he was referring to is important to me, even if it's not important to you, is that it leaves a lot more room for interpretation as to what they were really doing. As a fan who naturally wants to believe the best about his team, that's reassuring. And for someone like you who has been assuming the worst about the team, while I certainly don't expect it to change your mind, it should at least open the possibility that this wasn't as nefarious as you once believed.

And Merriman was unknowingly taking tainted supplements.

I never said that Belichick unknowingly broke the rules. I said he may have tried to exploit a loophole, or at least planned to use the "I was trying to exploit a loophole" defense. That's no defense for his actions. Actions for which he was correctly punished. I've said in the past I agree with the punishment. Both Merriman and Belichick got caught breaking the rules. And yet you don't seem to be attributing any further rule violations to Merriman. I hope you afford the same luxuty to Belichick, or you're the one who's the

 

[jonessed]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

Goodell made it pretty clear that he felt Belichick knew exactly what he was doing. His ruling doesn't leave a lot open for debate. The "interpretation of the rule" thing is ridiculous. There is no justification for what happened. He cheated, he knew he cheated, and it's now over.

I know this. I agree that it was cheating, and I'm not trying to justify it with "the interpretation of the rule". I don't question that Belichick knew that there was a rule against filming during the game. I do think it's fair to question whether he was taping it with the intent to look at it to prepare for the next time they met, or to use it in game, which is one of the topics that has been up for discussion. If you believe his explanation, then what he was doing wasn't nearly as bad. I also think it's fair to question whether he was deliberately cheating, or trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. If you believe his explanation, then it seems like he was trying to exploit a loophole, which is not nearly as bad as deliberately cheating. Last but not least, if you believe his explanation, then there's less reason for the wild extrapolations that people have made that this means the Patriots were cheating in many other ways. But I agree that in game taping was against the rules, I agree that Goodell left no room for interpretation that the rules were broken, and I agree that he knew what he was doing was wrong. The reason that the specific rule he was referring to is important to me, even if it's not important to you, is that it leaves a lot more room for interpretation as to what they were really doing. As a fan who naturally wants to believe the best about his team, that's reassuring. And for someone like you who has been assuming the worst about the team, while I certainly don't expect it to change your mind, it should at least open the possibility that this wasn't as nefarious as you once believed.

And Merriman was unknowingly taking tainted supplements.

I never said that Belichick unknowingly broke the rules. I said he may have tried to exploit a loophole, or at least planned to use the "I was trying to exploit a loophole" defense. That's no defense for his actions. Actions for which he was correctly punished. I've said in the past I agree with the punishment. Both Merriman and Belichick got caught breaking the rules. And yet you don't seem to be attributing any further rule violations to Merriman. I hope you afford the same luxuty to Belichick, or you're the one who's the

I was being sarcastic.

Merriman took steroids and in all likelihood knew he was taking them. Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean I'm blind. I'll leave blind faith to the NE homers.

 

[Buckna]

Destroyed the tapes? Pretty pathetic attempt at burying a story whether legit or not. If there is no substantial basis to justify tampering of signals or anything else, let the people judge. Don't try sweeping it under the rug and hoping the negative PR goes away. Destoying any evidence just brings up more questions, not quieting or answering any of them.

Sorry Boston fans. You've got a great team, managed well (although I don't agree with how they treat some of their young players), coached superbly, and positioned well in this decade, but you're always going to have to deal with being called cheaters.

Tough price to pay for enjoying those superbowls... I'm sure....

 

[bostonfred]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

Goodell made it pretty clear that he felt Belichick knew exactly what he was doing. His ruling doesn't leave a lot open for debate. The "interpretation of the rule" thing is ridiculous. There is no justification for what happened. He cheated, he knew he cheated, and it's now over.

I know this. I agree that it was cheating, and I'm not trying to justify it with "the interpretation of the rule". I don't question that Belichick knew that there was a rule against filming during the game. I do think it's fair to question whether he was taping it with the intent to look at it to prepare for the next time they met, or to use it in game, which is one of the topics that has been up for discussion. If you believe his explanation, then what he was doing wasn't nearly as bad. I also think it's fair to question whether he was deliberately cheating, or trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. If you believe his explanation, then it seems like he was trying to exploit a loophole, which is not nearly as bad as deliberately cheating. Last but not least, if you believe his explanation, then there's less reason for the wild extrapolations that people have made that this means the Patriots were cheating in many other ways. But I agree that in game taping was against the rules, I agree that Goodell left no room for interpretation that the rules were broken, and I agree that he knew what he was doing was wrong. The reason that the specific rule he was referring to is important to me, even if it's not important to you, is that it leaves a lot more room for interpretation as to what they were really doing. As a fan who naturally wants to believe the best about his team, that's reassuring. And for someone like you who has been assuming the worst about the team, while I certainly don't expect it to change your mind, it should at least open the possibility that this wasn't as nefarious as you once believed.

And Merriman was unknowingly taking tainted supplements.

I never said that Belichick unknowingly broke the rules. I said he may have tried to exploit a loophole, or at least planned to use the "I was trying to exploit a loophole" defense. That's no defense for his actions. Actions for which he was correctly punished. I've said in the past I agree with the punishment. Both Merriman and Belichick got caught breaking the rules. And yet you don't seem to be attributing any further rule violations to Merriman. I hope you afford the same luxuty to Belichick, or you're the one who's the

I was being sarcastic.

Merriman took steroids and in all likelihood knew he was taking them. Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean I'm blind. I'll leave blind faith to the NE homers.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not questioning whether you believe Merriman knowingly took steroids, nor am I questioning whether Belichick knew that what he was doing was against the rules. I'm questioning the thought process that has led some people to believe that Belichick did anything more than videotape signals for use after the game.

 

[Blue Barbarian]

Tapegate is done. Only recourse now is kicking cheater butt on the field, and maybe a cheap shot on the sidelines if the head cheater gets in the way.

 

[Skeetcher]

It IS over. The commissioner has made his decision, handed down the penalty and now we can all go back to watching football.

However, those that are relying on the short memory of the American public might be ultimately disapointed. Sure this won't be headline news a year or two from now but just as the American public remember Pete Rose as the guy who bet on baseball, they will remember Belichicks New England Patriots as the team that cheated to win. Much as Boston fans may refuse to acknowledge it, their reputation has been tarnished and the fact that we will never know how much of an advantage the cheating gave them means for the majority of people the asterixes on their SBs will definitely and permanently remain.

It is a shame because they were going to go down (in all our eyes) as one of the most powerful dynasties to ever grace the NFL. We looked up to them as the benchmark and although we may have hated them (as is the case with all successful franchises) we gave them our utmost respect for the way they played the game and what they accomplished. Now they are seen by non-fans as a grubby stain on the NFL map and only those fans in Boston (for the most part) are prepared to look past what they did.

Case closed, lets watch some football..

 

[DropKick]

It IS over. The commissioner has made his decision, handed down the penalty and now we can all go back to watching football.However, those that are relying on the short memory of the American public might be ultimately disapointed. Sure this won't be headline news a year or two from now but just as the American public remember Pete Rose as the guy who bet on baseball, they will remember Belichicks New England Patriots as the team that cheated to win. Much as Boston fans may refuse to acknowledge it, their reputation has been tarnished and the fact that we will never know how much of an advantage the cheating gave them means for the majority of people the asterixes on their SBs will definitely and permanently remain. It is a shame because they were going to go down (in all our eyes) as one of the most powerful dynasties to ever grace the NFL. We looked up to them as the benchmark and although we may have hated them (as is the case with all successful franchises) we gave them our utmost respect for the way they played the game and what they accomplished. Now they are seen by non-fans as a grubby stain on the NFL map and only those fans in Boston (for the most part) are prepared to look past what they did.Case closed, lets watch some football..

Thank you for the comic relief. I think you said it all with "we may have hated them"...

 

[Skeetcher]

It IS over. The commissioner has made his decision, handed down the penalty and now we can all go back to watching football.

However, those that are relying on the short memory of the American public might be ultimately disapointed. Sure this won't be headline news a year or two from now but just as the American public remember Pete Rose as the guy who bet on baseball, they will remember Belichicks New England Patriots as the team that cheated to win. Much as Boston fans may refuse to acknowledge it, their reputation has been tarnished and the fact that we will never know how much of an advantage the cheating gave them means for the majority of people the asterixes on their SBs will definitely and permanently remain.

It is a shame because they were going to go down (in all our eyes) as one of the most powerful dynasties to ever grace the NFL. We looked up to them as the benchmark and although we may have hated them (as is the case with all successful franchises) we gave them our utmost respect for the way they played the game and what they accomplished. Now they are seen by non-fans as a grubby stain on the NFL map and only those fans in Boston (for the most part) are prepared to look past what they did.

Case closed, lets watch some football..

Thank you for the comic relief. I think you said it all with "we may have hated them"...

'hated' in the way rival fans have hated the Cowboys, Yankees, Manchester United etc... any team that is successful draws hatred from rivals due to possible jealousy or the perceived arrogance that comes with winning. It doesn't lessen the fact that these teams also have earned respect and that is what the Pats may have lost in varying degrees due to the question marks that will persist (for non Pats fans) over the legitamacy of their SB runs.

 

[Shrek]

NFL Destroys Tapes | No Support of Audio Abuse

It's over

Yes, it's been such a long, long road.

I'm not one of those people trying to drag this out anymore. Frankly, once I realized that the Patriots would not receive any significant punishment, it lost it's luster- for me, anyway. But what's absolutely hilarious is that this happened two weeks ago TODAY and Pats Fans have been trying to declare this as a dead issue for 13 days.

It may be done to you and I, but to many NFL fans, it's not going to be over for quite awhile. Just because Pats Fan wants it to go away doesn't mean it will. Your team screwed up, and some people still want to discuss it. You don't get to dictate how long this is a relevant issue.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

NFL Destroys Tapes | No Support of Audio Abuse

It's over

Yes, it's been such a long, long road.

I'm not one of those people trying to drag this out anymore. Frankly, once I realized that the Patriots would not receive any significant punishment, it lost it's luster- for me, anyway. But what's absolutely hilarious is that this happened two weeks ago TODAY and Pats Fans have been trying to declare this as a dead issue for 13 days.

It may be done to you and I, but to many NFL fans, it's not going to be over for quite awhile. Just because Pats Fan wants it to go away doesn't mean it will. Your team screwed up, and some people still want to discuss it. You don't get to dictate how long this is a relevant issue.

I think that's pretty much accurate.It's ironic that whereever you stand on this issue, most people are left with wanting to know more. Those who don't include Roger Goodell and .... well, that's about it. I'm still thinking additional information is going to find it's way to the media.

 

[Billy1x]

No evidence but I would say fully believed. Mort just reported that in ALL GAMES will NOW be monitored with the latest radio detection equipment to find and listen (record??) all communications.

 

[jonessed]

In a statement released following the NFL's ruling, Belichick indicated that his "interpretation of a rule in the Constitution and Bylaws was incorrect."

The rule to which Belichick was referring was: "Any use by any club at any time, from the start to the finish of any game in which such club is a participant, of any communications or information-gathering equipment, other than Polaroid-type cameras or field telephones, shall be prohibited, including without limitation videotape machines, telephone tapping, or bugging devices, or any other form of electronic devices that might aid a team during the playing of a game."

No discussion on this whatsoever? The "interpretation of the rule" argument holds a lot more water when you know the text of the rule he was talking about.

Goodell made it pretty clear that he felt Belichick knew exactly what he was doing. His ruling doesn't leave a lot open for debate. The "interpretation of the rule" thing is ridiculous. There is no justification for what happened. He cheated, he knew he cheated, and it's now over.

I know this. I agree that it was cheating, and I'm not trying to justify it with "the interpretation of the rule". I don't question that Belichick knew that there was a rule against filming during the game. I do think it's fair to question whether he was taping it with the intent to look at it to prepare for the next time they met, or to use it in game, which is one of the topics that has been up for discussion. If you believe his explanation, then what he was doing wasn't nearly as bad. I also think it's fair to question whether he was deliberately cheating, or trying to exploit a loophole in the rules. If you believe his explanation, then it seems like he was trying to exploit a loophole, which is not nearly as bad as deliberately cheating. Last but not least, if you believe his explanation, then there's less reason for the wild extrapolations that people have made that this means the Patriots were cheating in many other ways. But I agree that in game taping was against the rules, I agree that Goodell left no room for interpretation that the rules were broken, and I agree that he knew what he was doing was wrong. The reason that the specific rule he was referring to is important to me, even if it's not important to you, is that it leaves a lot more room for interpretation as to what they were really doing. As a fan who naturally wants to believe the best about his team, that's reassuring. And for someone like you who has been assuming the worst about the team, while I certainly don't expect it to change your mind, it should at least open the possibility that this wasn't as nefarious as you once believed.

And Merriman was unknowingly taking tainted supplements.

I never said that Belichick unknowingly broke the rules. I said he may have tried to exploit a loophole, or at least planned to use the "I was trying to exploit a loophole" defense. That's no defense for his actions. Actions for which he was correctly punished. I've said in the past I agree with the punishment. Both Merriman and Belichick got caught breaking the rules. And yet you don't seem to be attributing any further rule violations to Merriman. I hope you afford the same luxuty to Belichick, or you're the one who's the

I was being sarcastic.

Merriman took steroids and in all likelihood knew he was taking them. Just because I'm a fan doesn't mean I'm blind. I'll leave blind faith to the NE homers.

I think you misunderstood. I'm not questioning whether you believe Merriman knowingly took steroids, nor am I questioning whether Belichick knew that what he was doing was against the rules. I'm questioning the thought process that has led some people to believe that Belichick did anything more than videotape signals for use after the game.

I see. Well, I believe he did. We've never been given an answer as to why they were using extra frequencies and now they are putting in safeguards to make sure everything is monitored directly. Seems clear to me that something was going on there. But I can see where fans would be pushed to believe otherwise. You generally want to assume the best.Noone will ever know now. Goodell made sure of that.