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*** NFL International Football Thread *** (2 Viewers)

JaxBill said:
Faust said:
Basing an NFL team in London would be a 'piece of cake' says Dallas Cowboys owner
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NFL commissioner Roger Goodell, currently under fire for his handling of a domestic abuse case involving Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice, is thought to be a strong backer of a potential London team as he seeks to build a lasting legacy and a global footprint for American football. His plans for a London franchise are said to include basing it in the USA for most of the year, with the team crossing the Atlantic to play two or three home games at a time.
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I can't see this building public interest in UK. "We don't really want to live here but come support us 8 times a year."
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Really, way to insult the new fanbase there, Rog.

Underlying subscript is that NFL is getting resistance from players who don't want to live there, because of taxes, culture and distance.

 
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This will never happen, just like an even more internationally established sport, the NBA, will never have a cross-seas franchise. Nobody wants to be forced into living 5,000 miles away from home in a completely different culture and family. Not to mention the entirely unfair travel requirements that international team would be forced into for away games. Never going to happen, no way no how. Just needs to be put to rest.

Also I agree with Jerry. Setting up a team there is easy...But the logistics of it are not.

 
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Why don't they work on starting their own league? Do kids play? Start from the ground and grow your own league.

 
Slider said:
Why don't they work on starting their own league? Do kids play? Start from the ground and grow your own league.
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You make it sound like this is the British trying to get a franchise, rather than the NFL trying to expand overseas.

You might get the impression on IS day that British fans would like a franchise in London, but in fact they mostly think it's a ridiculous idea, for pretty much the same reasons posted on here. That's from reading the NFL-UK message board, and those of NFL teams' UK fan clubs.

Oh, and there's a thriving league in Britain, with over 50 teams. And a collegiate league. I doubt if it will ever go fully professional though.

ShamrockPride said:
... in a completely different culture ...
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I just love that comment.

 
It can't and won't become a prime sport over here in terms of producing players and a proper high quality league because American Football is not woven into the fabric of society and is not played at grass roots level.

Whilst you guys play football, basketball etc etc from a young age and have a whole high school structure of playing these sports and an inbuilt network of teams, leagues playing each other, the UK has this with soccer in all schools. Private schools place most importance on the likes of rugby, cricket etc. Professional 'soccer' clubs are woven into society over here, almost more akin to college football because the clubs represent geographical areas, communities etc in the past have represented specific working class sectors ie been at the very core of an area, most of them for 130 years plus.

Logistically, American football would be very very difficult to embed into grassroots here through numbers required to play, equipment, teachers/coaches etc capable of teaching the game etc. Made impossible almost by the fact that I could not foresee any high school feeling the need to have an abrupt change and take focus away from 'soccer' and other sports.

Much like you have tens of thousands of ex player of all levels wishing to pass their experience on and coach kids, we have the same with 'soccer'.

My first chance of playing was at uni for example. At this level you are assembling a team of amateur sportsmen that played other sports in the past but have always loved NFL, people that always loved NFL but never really played any other sports, and the odd overseas student who may if your lucky be an American that brings some experience of playing with him.

A sport such as basketball would be my example of an American sport that would be far easier to embed across the country at grassroots level because A) it requires less players b) requires much less equipment and space and c) well because it already has made some inroads and is pretty popular

In essence, American football would have to pretty much replace soccer or rugby as the school sport and past time of the nations kids and that will simply never happen.

Lastly, the point above about most UK people thinking NFL team in London would be ridiculous, is very true. All of us UK NFL fans already usually support an NFL team anyway and would not be suddenly switching alliances to a UK team. Not to mention that a lot of the UK ( and by default a lot of NFL fans ) really has a distaste for London itself and probably would hold that against the franchise as well.

 
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If they want to do this they need to go all out and add 4 to 8 teams to create whole new divisions. Having one damn team over there and expecting them to go through the rigors of an NFL season is madness. Especially when their division plays the AFC/NFC west in a season. That being said Goodell is a pawn and the owners are ####### stupid. Really a terrible idea. There is probably no good solution to international expansion except to put the time, effort, patience and money to establish youth programs and their own leagues.

 
TartanLion said:
It can't and won't become a prime sport over here in terms of producing players and a proper high quality league because American Football is not woven into the fabric of society and is not played at grass roots level.

Whilst you guys play football, basketball etc etc from a young age and have a whole high school structure of playing these sports and an inbuilt network of teams, leagues playing each other, the UK has this with soccer in all schools. Private schools place most importance on the likes of rugby, cricket etc. Professional 'soccer' clubs are woven into society over here, almost more akin to college football because the clubs represent geographical areas, communities etc in the past have represented specific working class sectors ie been at the very core of an area, most of them for 130 years plus.

Logistically, American football would be very very difficult to embed into grassroots here through numbers required to play, equipment, teachers/coaches etc capable of teaching the game etc. Made impossible almost by the fact that I could not foresee any high school feeling the need to have an abrupt change and take focus away from 'soccer' and other sports.

Much like you have tens of thousands of ex player of all levels wishing to pass their experience on and coach kids, we have the same with 'soccer'.

My first chance of playing was at uni for example. At this level you are assembling a team of amateur sportsmen that played other sports in the past but have always loved NFL, people that always loved NFL but never really played any other sports, and the odd overseas student who may if your lucky be an American that brings some experience of playing with him.

A sport such as basketball would be my example of an American sport that would be far easier to embed across the country at grassroots level because A) it requires less players b) requires much less equipment and space and c) well because it already has made some inroads and is pretty popular

In essence, American football would have to pretty much replace soccer or rugby as the school sport and past time of the nations kids and that will simply never happen.

Lastly, the point above about most UK people thinking NFL team in London would be ridiculous, is very true. All of us UK NFL fans already usually support an NFL team anyway and would not be suddenly switching alliances to a UK team. Not to mention that a lot of the UK ( and by default a lot of NFL fans ) really has a distaste for London itself and probably would hold that against the franchise as well.
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:thumbup: Bloody good posting. I think the part about a London team just alienating the rest of the UK is true. It's not like the London team would be adopted as the national team, quite the opposite.

You'd have to think someone has offered Rog this synopsis as well but they seem bound and determined. I also fear the NFL screwing up a good thing further by using expansion instead of relocation to do this.

 
I don't know how many games there have been in London up to this point. But in 100% of those games they spend 50% of the broadcast talking about how sh*tty the field is.

 
SaintsInDome2006 said:
TartanLion said:
It can't and won't become a prime sport over here in terms of producing players and a proper high quality league because American Football is not woven into the fabric of society and is not played at grass roots level.

Whilst you guys play football, basketball etc etc from a young age and have a whole high school structure of playing these sports and an inbuilt network of teams, leagues playing each other, the UK has this with soccer in all schools. Private schools place most importance on the likes of rugby, cricket etc. Professional 'soccer' clubs are woven into society over here, almost more akin to college football because the clubs represent geographical areas, communities etc in the past have represented specific working class sectors ie been at the very core of an area, most of them for 130 years plus.

Logistically, American football would be very very difficult to embed into grassroots here through numbers required to play, equipment, teachers/coaches etc capable of teaching the game etc. Made impossible almost by the fact that I could not foresee any high school feeling the need to have an abrupt change and take focus away from 'soccer' and other sports.

Much like you have tens of thousands of ex player of all levels wishing to pass their experience on and coach kids, we have the same with 'soccer'.

My first chance of playing was at uni for example. At this level you are assembling a team of amateur sportsmen that played other sports in the past but have always loved NFL, people that always loved NFL but never really played any other sports, and the odd overseas student who may if your lucky be an American that brings some experience of playing with him.

A sport such as basketball would be my example of an American sport that would be far easier to embed across the country at grassroots level because A) it requires less players b) requires much less equipment and space and c) well because it already has made some inroads and is pretty popular

In essence, American football would have to pretty much replace soccer or rugby as the school sport and past time of the nations kids and that will simply never happen.

Lastly, the point above about most UK people thinking NFL team in London would be ridiculous, is very true. All of us UK NFL fans already usually support an NFL team anyway and would not be suddenly switching alliances to a UK team. Not to mention that a lot of the UK ( and by default a lot of NFL fans ) really has a distaste for London itself and probably would hold that against the franchise as well.
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:thumbup: Bloody good posting. I think the part about a London team just alienating the rest of the UK is true. It's not like the London team would be adopted as the national team, quite the opposite.

You'd have to think someone has offered Rog this synopsis as well but they seem bound and determined. I also fear the NFL screwing up a good thing further by using expansion instead of relocation to do this.
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We'll see the ratings tomorrow, but the initial reaction has been over-the-moon from all factions today. Im someone who hates TNF with a passion, but many like me....loved this and the ratings will probably justify exploring (a) an 8 game package of random NFL teams for morning games only or, more lucratively (b) a London franchise to serve this purpose.

Here is a cross-post from this evening:

In the scenario where the NFL wants a franchise in London, then:

(1) sure, this can be sold to the networks as up to a a max of an 8-game standalone package; an incremental product that would take away slightly from the Sunday afternoon package as TNF did.

(2) If the London franchise is either via expansion or if it's Jacksonville moving, then there is ZERO to very little value lost in dollar-value from the Sunday afternoon package; nearly 100% of the revenue of this new package would go to the league. The loss of eyeballs for the afternoon package would only come from the opponent side of the equation; i.e. assume London in is the Giants division. The one time a year the Giants are in London and on SMF, then the 1pm/4pm package would lose one of the biggest markets' eyeballs for an afternoon. That means something, yes, but not a whole lot.

(3) the value of the London franchise would get an immediate boost as no other team would have with maximum exposure via 8 national/international TV games

(4) The first big caveat here is that the London franchise would need to sell its seats like no other franchise given its place in the spotlight. Looking at an empty stadium every other weekend on national/international television would not be the optic the NFL would want to show on one of its 5 regular season packages.

(5) If the London team is not good on the field, then the attractiveness of the SMF package declines rapidly. Every other package mitigates risk of clunkers through diversity of teams in the package and/or through flexing. No such options would be available here. I suppose one option for risk mitigation would be to front-load London's home schedule a little bit.

(6) Also...playing west coast teams is difficult home or away; putting travel aside (b/c that will not be an issue) and looking only at game-times you'd have to make all games vs the west coast teams, home or away, part of the Sunday afternoon package and start either at (1) 1pm Pacific/4pm eastern/9PM GMT(late for London) or (2) 10am Pacific/1pm eastern/6pm GMT (early for the west coast teams). So the package probably would not be a full 8 games due to this.

 
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If they do this weekly, then they would need at least 2 teams in Europe. Probably 2 London teams. The 4 biggest metro areas are London, Birmingham, Manchester, and Liverpool I think. Other options are Glasgow and then Germany.

Long term, I could see 36 NFL teams, 6 divisions with 6 teams each. 1 division would be Europe. Maybe 2 London teams, 1 in Birmingham, 2-3 in Germany. It would have to be 4 expansion teams and then relocate 2 current teams to Europe.

6 divisions are Europe, Atlantic, Southeast, Great Lakes, Midwest, and West.

Europe:

relocated Jaguars

relocated Bills

4 expansion teams

The other 5 divisions are tricky. The NFL will never break up the old NFC East. So we have to work the Cowboys in there. Ravens get booted to the Southeast division. Saints get booted from the Southeast to the Midwest division.

Atlantic:

Giants

Jets

Cowboys

Patriots

Eagles

Redskins

Southeast:

Falcons

Dolphins

Buccaneers

Ravens

Titans

Panthers

Great Lakes:

Steelers

Browns

Lions

Bears

Packers

Vikings

Midwest:

Colts

Bengals

Saints

Texans

Rams

Chiefs

West:

Seahawks

49ers

Broncos

Cardinals

Chargers

LA Raiders

If the Rams move to LA, then swap the Broncos and Rams in the Midwest and West divisions.

 
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Riversco said:
If they do this weekly, then they would need at least 2 teams in Europe.
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I dont think the NFL views it this way.

I think they-think that one London team is fine; that an extra few hours of travel every-other-week (or 2-3 week state-side road trips) will be workable.

 
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Faust said:
RushHour said:
Such an awful idea and I pray it doesn't happen. The NBA was into the idea of having a European team a couple of years ago but talk of that seems to have sensibly died down.

It also wouldn't really be the "National" Football League anymore.
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The NFL could re-brand as the International Football League or IFL for short.
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I was thinking more like World Tackle Football or WTF for short.

 
Hoss Style said:
London media doesn't care about the NFL
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A packed house at Wembley Stadium on Sunday night.

The Daily Mail gave the game less than 100 words in its "Sports" section on Monday. It shared the page with tennis and golf.

The Daily Telegraph spent less than 50 words on the game, relegating it to a page with coverage of cricket and squash.

The City A.M really went all out. If you remove the names of the team, stadium and score, you get an entire two words on the game.
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Tango said:
We'll see the ratings tomorrow, but the initial reaction has been over-the-moon from all factions today. Im someone who hates TNF with a passion, but many like me....loved this and the ratings will probably justify exploring (a) an 8 game package of random NFL teams for morning games only or, more lucratively (b) a London franchise to serve this purpose.
Here is a cross-post from this evening:

In the scenario where the NFL wants a franchise in London, then:

(1) sure, this can be sold to the networks as up to a a max of an 8-game standalone package; an incremental product that would take away slightly from the Sunday afternoon package as TNF did.

(2) If the London franchise is either via expansion or if it's Jacksonville moving, then there is ZERO to very little value lost in dollar-value from the Sunday afternoon package; nearly 100% of the revenue of this new package would go to the league. The loss of eyeballs for the afternoon package would only come from the opponent side of the equation; i.e. assume London in is the Giants division. The one time a year the Giants are in London and on SMF, then the 1pm/4pm package would lose one of the biggest markets' eyeballs for an afternoon. That means something, yes, but not a whole lot.

(3) the value of the London franchise would get an immediate boost as no other team would have with maximum exposure via 8 national/international TV games

(4) The first big caveat here is that the London franchise would need to sell its seats like no other franchise given its place in the spotlight. Looking at an empty stadium every other weekend on national/international television would not be the optic the NFL would want to show on one of its 5 regular season packages.

(5) If the London team is not good on the field, then the attractiveness of the SMF package declines rapidly. Every other package mitigates risk of clunkers through diversity of teams in the package and/or through flexing. No such options would be available here. I suppose one option for risk mitigation would be to front-load London's home schedule a little bit.

(6) Also...playing west coast teams is difficult home or away; putting travel aside (b/c that will not be an issue) and looking only at game-times you'd have to make all games vs the west coast teams, home or away, part of the Sunday afternoon package and start either at (1) 1pm Pacific/4pm eastern/9PM GMT(late for London) or (2) 10am Pacific/1pm eastern/6pm GMT (early for the west coast teams). So the package probably would not be a full 8 games due to this.
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2015 NFL schedule: Two games will kick off at 9:30 a.m. ET in London: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24958451/nfl-schedule-two-games-will-kick-off-at-930-am-et-in-london

Dolphins/Jets

Jags/Bills

Two games that would otherwise be buried deep in the 1pm window. Good news.

 
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ShamrockPride said:
NFL just took a giant s### on London by giving them those games. NFL not doing themselves any favors.
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Monetizing those s### games while not taking away (but actually adding to) the bedrock-asset that is "NFL-Sunday" (ie not taking away from Sundays any more than they already have with TNF) is precisely the mission that the NFL is seeking to achieve. And they will be successful as the ratings for these s### games will beat CBS Sunday morning by ten-fold without affecting the regular Sunday package one-iota. Goldmine.

 
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Tango said:
ShamrockPride said:
NFL just took a giant s### on London by giving them those games. NFL not doing themselves any favors.
Click to expand...
Monetizing those s### games while not taking away (but actually adding to) the bedrock-asset that is "NFL-Sunday" (ie not taking away from Sundays any more than they already have with TNF) is precisely the mission that the NFL is seeking to achieve. And they will be successful as the ratings for these s### games will beat CBS Sunday morning by ten-fold without affecting the regular Sunday package one-iota. Goldmine.
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Oooohhhh you and your business smarts...

 
ShamrockPride said:
NFL just took a giant s### on London by giving them those games. NFL not doing themselves any favors.
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How do you know? This time last year Bears - Falcons would have been a good matchup.

At the very least, one is a divisional game.

 
I hope this never, never, never, never happens. However, I wouldn't object to a Team or two in Southern Canada.

Personally, I think the NFL went off the deep end when they expanded to 32 Teams. In my opinion, it's been proven out that there's just not enough NFL-caliber talent to spread across 32 Teams, maybe even 30. 28 doesn't work because that former Divisional Framework of 5/5/4 would always lead to folks clamoring to add 2 more teams for aesthetics without thinking about dilution of talent, which is how we got to 30 in the first place.

If I had my way, I think 24 Teams would be perfect. Sure would be a tremendous amount of healthy competition for Roster Spots, and I think quality of play would follow suit...just looking at the Rosters Page, I'd say there are in the neighborhood of +/- 8 Players on every Team that are borderline NFL Players, at best; by that I mean guys that, if they were to play to the best of their ability and never get hurt, they're very replaceable and would fall below that 3-year career average even in the best possible case. Those very same guys, released from their NFL Rosters where they have no real future, could have the opportunity to make a career out of playing in an 'alternative League' andwould make the CFL, NFL Europe, Arena Football, D-League, USFL, whatever Leagues existed, exists or might exist in the future much better companion Leagues to the 'real' NFL, in my opinion.

I think MLB, the NBA and NHL should contract as well. The chase for the dollar has diluted professional sports to the point that it's finally affected quality of play, IMHO.

Sorry for the hijack...

 
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This is the dumbest of dumb ideas the NFL has thought up. Do they even understand that a team in the UK will not be able to attract quality free agents? Guys will take less to stay here. Any Uk team will be a perpetual bottom feeder until they fold it up.

 
Hey, Jason LaCanfora! Somebody says there's a limit to the number of games that the NFL can play abroad.

Who is it? The guy you say is moving a team there by 2019,

Jaguars owner Shad Khan has become the first NFL executive to publicly put a limit on the number of games the NFL will play in London or abroad each season.

The league will play three games in London this year and there’s been speculation that the league could eventually play eight games a year there so London fans could have a full slate of home games without actually having a team or would eventually put a franchise there. The league is also talking about playing games in other foreign venues like Mexico City.

The London Times reported that Khan told them that the NFL can absorb five games per season being played abroad, but no more.
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http://jacksonville.com/opinion/blog/513351/vito-stellino/2015-08-25/khan-five-games-abroad-each-year-nfl-limit

 
I live in London and I think this is an absolutely terrible idea. It's AMERICAN football and should stay like that. Stop trying to export it around the world, Roger! The rest of the world is rubbish at it and not that interested in it. It may have a bit of novelty value in places like London, but it'll soon wear off.

 
Portis 26 said:
I live in London and I think this is an absolutely terrible idea. It's AMERICAN football and should stay like that. Stop trying to export it around the world, Roger! The rest of the world is rubbish at it and not that interested in it. It may have a bit of novelty value in places like London, but it'll soon wear off.
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UK fans matter, yes. Trying to create new geogrpahic markets matters, yes. ...and you're right that there is risk with all of those aspects-- but in the short term this is about creating a new television window that does not cannibalize the Sunday afternoon package.

The short-term goal seems clear:

Transform Jacksonville home games that contribute near zero revenue to the current, already-too-crowded-1pm-window of the Sunday afternoon package and turn that into a stand-alone 930AM Eastern window that can be bid upon by the networks to generate significant, incremental revenue.

 
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cstu said:
Faust said:
Shad Khan: Jaguars could play in London through 2030

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000520055/article/shad-khan-jaguars-could-play-in-london-through-2030
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But he has no intention of moving the team there...right.
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At the same press conference he announced he was building an indoor practice facility. So, yes,

He doesn't want ANY team to move to London because it's profitable for the Jags to play one game a year abroad while being the big fish in the small pond of North Florida.

ETA: Here are his own words

Khan also was asked about the possibility of playing internationally in cities other than London. He said because of the positive experience in London thus far that city remains the Jaguars’ priority.

“I would expect the NFL may be looking at other areas, other markets to develop, but we want to have a focus,” Khan said. “Jacksonville supplemented with London is our focus.”

While some observers have speculated that a team – perhaps the Jaguars – could play a designated home game one week with a road game the week before or after, Khan said, “I expect us to play one game. That’s my expectation.”
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http://www.jaguars.com/news/article-JaguarsNews/Jaguars-Owner-Shad-Khan-seeks-long-term-London-deal/cd80200e-4902-45fd-a1af-b6555b4e7d4b

 
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