NFL Teams asking for Forensic Accounting of NIL Money (1 Viewer)

[Max Power]

I was listening to a former NFL team personnel manager discussing Caleb Williams on my drive in today. After he got through the talent aspect he started discussing Williams from an aspect of being the "front man" for an NFL organization and all the homework teams need to do in that regard. He stated how NIL money is also being looked at by teams and that any team interested in Williams will ask him to run a forensic accounting of how he spent his NIL money. This will show them the rate he is spending his money and what type of things his NIL money is going towards.

My first thought is that it seems invasive and I don't know what real light it sheds on a prospect. Then on one hand if you see a prospect is spending that money on training, nutrition and areas that would improve him as a football player it's a very good sign of commitment. On the other hand if that money is going to nightclubs, gambling or alcohol, you might have more reservations selecting a player early.

I wanted to see what others think of this new "wrinkle" in prospect evaluation.

 

[JAA]

Can the NFL ask a free agent how they spent their previous contract money? Is that any different?

 

[rockaction]

He stated how NIL money is also being looked at by teams and that any team interested in Williams will ask him to run a forensic accounting of how he spent his NIL money.

Sounds wildly intrusive and tons like the NFL as we know it.

 

[massraider]

I would want to know, because I want to know everything. Give me all the data. Hopefully my team will have the correct process for using the data, and weighing things correctly.

Forensic accounting is a bit ominous, and I think teams might get some really bad PR if they literally want permission to go through a prospects finances forensically. That's not the same as sending over a balance sheet.

I wonder why they didn't want to go over their finances when it was all illegal, under the table payments. (I'm not really wondering)

 

[abrunn1133]

If Kevin Costner can ask about birthday party attendance, these guys can ask about spending habits.

 

[brewer]

I think the NFL itself should be concerned about who their players are indebted to, but this level of inquest seems entirely inappropriate.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

My gut reaction is the speaker's use of the term "forensic" indicates to me he's trying to present it as way more than what it is. This is most likely not in any way forensic nor even something like an audit. If they are truly doing something differently than NFL teams have done in the past in terms of pre-draft analysis, it most likely is just a few questions or maybe they fill out a form.

 

[Hankmoody]

Asking and getting are two totally different things.

 

[Max Power]

My gut reaction is the speaker's use of the term "forensic" indicates to me he's trying to present it as way more than what it is. This is most likely not in any way forensic nor even something like an audit. If they are truly doing something differently than NFL teams have done in the past in terms of pre-draft analysis, it most likely is just a few questions or maybe they fill out a form.

It may have been an excessive term, but the overall point was that teams are doing more "outside of the lines" homework on top QB picks than ever before. Now that many are getting NIL money they are determined to find out how the prospect used that money. They want the prospect that lives for football and doesn't see it as a job. I think asking for and digging into a bank statement is well within the realm of probability.

 

[rockaction]

Ironically, she mentions the most prepared teams because her question exposed just how unprepared she was

That's an instance of needing to speak before you understand the whole of the situation. That's unfortunate. Good on Bowles for keeping it together. These people determine who gets jobs or what the public hears, and to not know that is inexcusable.

I've done that before, will try not to do it again, and feel for both the reporter and female sports reporters in general because they're always swimming upstream and damn if she didn't just make it worse for everybody.

That's not necessarily unprepared, that's ignorant and a human moment that's very cringe-worthy for a host of reasons.

 

[massraider]

They want the prospect that lives for football and doesn't see it as a job.

I assume most NFL teams will be looking for egregious red flags. Meaning, I think that fans might think some expenditures are outrageous red flags, and NFL teams would not even blink.

Anyone catch that 'Broke' 30 for 30? Bunch of really good players on that doc.

 

[JAA]

I think the NFL itself should be concerned about who their players are indebted to, but this level of inquest seems entirely inappropriate.

The entire combine question sessions are ridiculous

 

[jm192]

I just think it's silly. You can't force the kids to tell you anything. They could blatantly lie and teams would never know. No kid is going to go to an interview and say "Yup, I blew 200,000$ on draft kings and can't wait to get some money from you guys to do it again!"

Once you draft a guy, you don't ask him how he spends his money. It's his money. He earned it by doing a good job for you. If you don't think he is doing a good job, you don't re-sign him when his contract expires. It's just none of their business. Decide if you think the kid is good enough to help you win or not.

If a player is bad, but they spend their money wisely, you're not moving them way up your draft boards.
If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

 

[Gally]

If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

The way someone spends money does reflect on their character to some degree. It's all information that can go into an overall evaluation. It could be splitting hairs or you can decide that the talent trumps the character issues (if there are any). But it is something that is reasonable to want to know as part of your evaluation. It's all a give and take and part of the equation.

 

[jm192]

If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

The way someone spends money does reflect on their character to some degree. It's all information that can go into an overall evaluation. It could be splitting hairs or you can decide that the talent trumps the character issues (if there are any). But it is something that is reasonable to want to know as part of your evaluation. It's all a give and take and part of the equation.

Even if we just accept the idea that your money spend shows your character--I DO NOT believe these kids are going to tell on themselves. If Caleb Williams spent 100,000$ on pot, is he going to tell the Bears that? What if they say "We want to see your receipts or books?" Sorry. Lost 'em.

Or hell, say you donated it all to charity. Lost that receipt too. Don't plan to claim it on my taxes because I'm such a saint I don't want the tax break.

 

[Max Power]

I just think it's silly. You can't force the kids to tell you anything. They could blatantly lie and teams would never know. No kid is going to go to an interview and say "Yup, I blew 200,000$ on draft kings and can't wait to get some money from you guys to do it again!"

Once you draft a guy, you don't ask him how he spends his money. It's his money. He earned it by doing a good job for you. If you don't think he is doing a good job, you don't re-sign him when his contract expires. It's just none of their business. Decide if you think the kid is good enough to help you win or not.

If a player is bad, but they spend their money wisely, you're not moving them way up your draft boards.
If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

You can't force them to do anything, but you'd hope as an organization they are up front with you. These teams spend millions digging into prospect's backgrounds. This financial part is just another new aspect to that. Now that teams know some of these 21 year kids have millions of dollars its worth following up on.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of talented players who get drafted early and get their life changing money only to treat the sport like a job for a couple years before fading away because they didn't truly love football. I can think of the basketball example of Zion Williamson. He had the body and talent to be something special but he doesn't live basketball. He doesn't prioritize the game like the greats do and that's not an easy thing for teams to figure out before they draft a kid. I think the finance piece can shed a little light on that aspect.

Maybe not remove someone off your draft board level stuff but it can shuffle close calls. I was recently watching a youtube documentary on the Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf draft. At the time at least half of NFL scouts and teams had Leaf as the better prospect based on talent and size. Leaf just happened to also come with a ton of baggage that teams weren't looking for as hard at that time. Colts made the right call, but thats just an example of why teams might care.

 

[Buckna]

Yeah, i shudder to think what I would have blown my money on at 20 years old if I had been handed a few hundred thousand. Would it have reflected on my character? I find that claim pretty dubious. If I blew my money on a fancy car or a bunch of bitcoin what does that matter? These are kids and the vast majority have never seen money at that level. Look at how the vast majority of sports stars are broke just a fews years after playing.

They all treat it as a job IMO. Just because “this guy lives and breathes football” puff piece article about a player comes out, it doesn’t mean they will be a stud on the field. maybe the hope is this somehow lets them to identify a Jamarcus Russell who gets paid and then doesn’t give a crap after that, but that was when the rookie contracts were broken and too high. the vast majority of these young guys know now that the 2nd contract is where you really make your money nowadays thanks to the rookie wage scale so they are all working towards landing that 2nd contract as best they can.

 

[Max Power]

Or they find out he spent all his NIL money on Call of Duty upgrades and realize he has a video game addiction.

 

[SeniorVBDStudent]

spending history
browser history
has your mom ever worked a pole?
have you now or ever been a member of the communist party?

 

[jm192]

I just think it's silly. You can't force the kids to tell you anything. They could blatantly lie and teams would never know. No kid is going to go to an interview and say "Yup, I blew 200,000$ on draft kings and can't wait to get some money from you guys to do it again!"

Once you draft a guy, you don't ask him how he spends his money. It's his money. He earned it by doing a good job for you. If you don't think he is doing a good job, you don't re-sign him when his contract expires. It's just none of their business. Decide if you think the kid is good enough to help you win or not.

If a player is bad, but they spend their money wisely, you're not moving them way up your draft boards.
If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

You can't force them to do anything, but you'd hope as an organization they are up front with you. These teams spend millions digging into prospect's backgrounds. This financial part is just another new aspect to that. Now that teams know some of these 21 year kids have millions of dollars its worth following up on.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of talented players who get drafted early and get their life changing money only to treat the sport like a job for a couple years before fading away because they didn't truly love football. I can think of the basketball example of Zion Williamson. He had the body and talent to be something special but he doesn't live basketball. He doesn't prioritize the game like the greats do and that's not an easy thing for teams to figure out before they draft a kid. I think the finance piece can shed a little light on that aspect.

Maybe not remove someone off your draft board level stuff but it can shuffle close calls. I was recently watching a youtube documentary on the Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf draft. At the time at least half of NFL scouts and teams had Leaf as the better prospect based on talent and size. Leaf just happened to also come with a ton of baggage that teams weren't looking for as hard at that time. Colts made the right call, but thats just an example of why teams might care.

I just don't think it works like that.

Elite prospects don't go to the combine. Some kids go to the combine and skip certain drills. They're already refusing to give the teams all of the information they'd like to have. There is zero chance a kid is going to tell the NFL he's buying drugs or excessive amounts of alcohol or always going to the strip club?

Let's say they give you access: What exactly are you going to find in Zion's spending that tells you he isn't dedicated? Up thread, I mentioned--these kids aren't paying for training/equipment/nutrition. The schools take care of that. Zion doesn't need weights and protein. Duke makes sure he has it. Caleb Williams is taken care of by USC.

I've got way too much money in bourbon. And I hardly ever drank it. Do I have bad character for spending money on alcohol? I certainly don't think so. So if Caleb Williams bought a bunch of high end bourbon and rarely drinks it--character problems? I just don't agree with that.

The NFL right now has professional, highly paid players that drink alcohol and go to strip clubs. So it's ok to do once you're on the team, but we're gonna screen it before you get on the team? Just seems completely useless.

 

[wlwiles]

Or they find out he spent all his NIL money on Call of Duty upgrades and realize he has a video game addiction.

We're talking about Caleb, not Kyler

 

[Max Power]

I just think it's silly. You can't force the kids to tell you anything. They could blatantly lie and teams would never know. No kid is going to go to an interview and say "Yup, I blew 200,000$ on draft kings and can't wait to get some money from you guys to do it again!"

Once you draft a guy, you don't ask him how he spends his money. It's his money. He earned it by doing a good job for you. If you don't think he is doing a good job, you don't re-sign him when his contract expires. It's just none of their business. Decide if you think the kid is good enough to help you win or not.

If a player is bad, but they spend their money wisely, you're not moving them way up your draft boards.
If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

You can't force them to do anything, but you'd hope as an organization they are up front with you. These teams spend millions digging into prospect's backgrounds. This financial part is just another new aspect to that. Now that teams know some of these 21 year kids have millions of dollars its worth following up on.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of talented players who get drafted early and get their life changing money only to treat the sport like a job for a couple years before fading away because they didn't truly love football. I can think of the basketball example of Zion Williamson. He had the body and talent to be something special but he doesn't live basketball. He doesn't prioritize the game like the greats do and that's not an easy thing for teams to figure out before they draft a kid. I think the finance piece can shed a little light on that aspect.

Maybe not remove someone off your draft board level stuff but it can shuffle close calls. I was recently watching a youtube documentary on the Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf draft. At the time at least half of NFL scouts and teams had Leaf as the better prospect based on talent and size. Leaf just happened to also come with a ton of baggage that teams weren't looking for as hard at that time. Colts made the right call, but thats just an example of why teams might care.

I just don't think it works like that.

Elite prospects don't go to the combine. Some kids go to the combine and skip certain drills. They're already refusing to give the teams all of the information they'd like to have. There is zero chance a kid is going to tell the NFL he's buying drugs or excessive amounts of alcohol or always going to the strip club?

Let's say they give you access: What exactly are you going to find in Zion's spending that tells you he isn't dedicated? Up thread, I mentioned--these kids aren't paying for training/equipment/nutrition. The schools take care of that. Zion doesn't need weights and protein. Duke makes sure he has it. Caleb Williams is taken care of by USC.

I've got way too much money in bourbon. And I hardly ever drank it. Do I have bad character for spending money on alcohol? I certainly don't think so. So if Caleb Williams bought a bunch of high end bourbon and rarely drinks it--character problems? I just don't agree with that.

The NFL right now has professional, highly paid players that drink alcohol and go to strip clubs. So it's ok to do once you're on the team, but we're gonna screen it before you get on the team? Just seems completely useless.

In Zion's case if I see he is ordering fast food multiple times a day while struggling to maintain weight that's a massive red flag. I'm sure if a team asks him he will tell them he is trying, but we can clearly see in his finances he isn't.

The alcohol and partying isn't a problem until it is. Manziel is a good example of that. From his first hand account he was up to all kinds of things franchises would frown upon. Did Cleveland know? I don't know but I'll bet they wish they had known more when they drafted him.

I don't know what the teams are looking for and it might not be how much is being spent on vices, but how often. What's an acceptable number of times to go to the nightclub a week? Someone going too often definitely complicates the issue of making that person the face of your Franchise.

 

[Max Power]

Or they find out he spent all his NIL money on Call of Duty upgrades and realize he has a video game addiction.

We're talking about Caleb, not Kyler

This really isn't only a Caleb thing though, it might be a common practice going forward.

 

[jm192]

I just think it's silly. You can't force the kids to tell you anything. They could blatantly lie and teams would never know. No kid is going to go to an interview and say "Yup, I blew 200,000$ on draft kings and can't wait to get some money from you guys to do it again!"

Once you draft a guy, you don't ask him how he spends his money. It's his money. He earned it by doing a good job for you. If you don't think he is doing a good job, you don't re-sign him when his contract expires. It's just none of their business. Decide if you think the kid is good enough to help you win or not.

If a player is bad, but they spend their money wisely, you're not moving them way up your draft boards.
If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

You can't force them to do anything, but you'd hope as an organization they are up front with you. These teams spend millions digging into prospect's backgrounds. This financial part is just another new aspect to that. Now that teams know some of these 21 year kids have millions of dollars its worth following up on.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of talented players who get drafted early and get their life changing money only to treat the sport like a job for a couple years before fading away because they didn't truly love football. I can think of the basketball example of Zion Williamson. He had the body and talent to be something special but he doesn't live basketball. He doesn't prioritize the game like the greats do and that's not an easy thing for teams to figure out before they draft a kid. I think the finance piece can shed a little light on that aspect.

Maybe not remove someone off your draft board level stuff but it can shuffle close calls. I was recently watching a youtube documentary on the Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf draft. At the time at least half of NFL scouts and teams had Leaf as the better prospect based on talent and size. Leaf just happened to also come with a ton of baggage that teams weren't looking for as hard at that time. Colts made the right call, but thats just an example of why teams might care.

I just don't think it works like that.

Elite prospects don't go to the combine. Some kids go to the combine and skip certain drills. They're already refusing to give the teams all of the information they'd like to have. There is zero chance a kid is going to tell the NFL he's buying drugs or excessive amounts of alcohol or always going to the strip club?

Let's say they give you access: What exactly are you going to find in Zion's spending that tells you he isn't dedicated? Up thread, I mentioned--these kids aren't paying for training/equipment/nutrition. The schools take care of that. Zion doesn't need weights and protein. Duke makes sure he has it. Caleb Williams is taken care of by USC.

I've got way too much money in bourbon. And I hardly ever drank it. Do I have bad character for spending money on alcohol? I certainly don't think so. So if Caleb Williams bought a bunch of high end bourbon and rarely drinks it--character problems? I just don't agree with that.

The NFL right now has professional, highly paid players that drink alcohol and go to strip clubs. So it's ok to do once you're on the team, but we're gonna screen it before you get on the team? Just seems completely useless.

In Zion's case if I see he is ordering fast food multiple times a day while struggling to maintain weight that's a massive red flag. I'm sure if a team asks him he will tell them he is trying, but we can clearly see in his finances he isn't.

The alcohol and partying isn't a problem until it is. Manziel is a good example of that. From his first hand account he was up to all kinds of things franchises would frown upon. Did Cleveland know? I don't know but I'll bet they wish they had known more when they drafted him.

I don't know what the teams are looking for and it might not be how much is being spent on vices, but how often. What's an acceptable number of times to go to the nightclub a week? Someone going too often definitely complicates the issue of making that person the face of your Franchise.

Serious question: What do you think the financial review looks like? These kids aren't bringing bank records and credit card statements to NFL GM's. It's not real. You're not going to convince me that will ever happen. You can't even get the top NFL prospects to show up at the combine. Why do you think they're going to submit to this?

Zion was a generational college talent. He was a lock for the #1 pick. He's not going to provide them with information that they might try to use against him. But let's say he did:

Again, Zion was a generational college talent. How much do you move him down your draft board because he eats cheese burgers at 19 years old? And then they take who? Ja Morant? Well, what if he spent NIL Money on hand guns? Ok we're down to RJ Barrett. Well, what if RJ Went to the club a lot?

But, they're gonna skip the consensus #1/generational college talent over fast food receipts. I don't believe it.

Also, if this is such a valuable exercise, why not do this with your current players?

 

[Max Power]

I just think it's silly. You can't force the kids to tell you anything. They could blatantly lie and teams would never know. No kid is going to go to an interview and say "Yup, I blew 200,000$ on draft kings and can't wait to get some money from you guys to do it again!"

Once you draft a guy, you don't ask him how he spends his money. It's his money. He earned it by doing a good job for you. If you don't think he is doing a good job, you don't re-sign him when his contract expires. It's just none of their business. Decide if you think the kid is good enough to help you win or not.

If a player is bad, but they spend their money wisely, you're not moving them way up your draft boards.
If a player is elite a la Caleb Williams--you're gonna skip over him if he spent too much NIL$ at the strip club in college? Seems like bad/silly business.

You can't force them to do anything, but you'd hope as an organization they are up front with you. These teams spend millions digging into prospect's backgrounds. This financial part is just another new aspect to that. Now that teams know some of these 21 year kids have millions of dollars its worth following up on.

I'm sure there are plenty of examples of talented players who get drafted early and get their life changing money only to treat the sport like a job for a couple years before fading away because they didn't truly love football. I can think of the basketball example of Zion Williamson. He had the body and talent to be something special but he doesn't live basketball. He doesn't prioritize the game like the greats do and that's not an easy thing for teams to figure out before they draft a kid. I think the finance piece can shed a little light on that aspect.

Maybe not remove someone off your draft board level stuff but it can shuffle close calls. I was recently watching a youtube documentary on the Peyton Manning vs Ryan Leaf draft. At the time at least half of NFL scouts and teams had Leaf as the better prospect based on talent and size. Leaf just happened to also come with a ton of baggage that teams weren't looking for as hard at that time. Colts made the right call, but thats just an example of why teams might care.

I just don't think it works like that.

Elite prospects don't go to the combine. Some kids go to the combine and skip certain drills. They're already refusing to give the teams all of the information they'd like to have. There is zero chance a kid is going to tell the NFL he's buying drugs or excessive amounts of alcohol or always going to the strip club?

Let's say they give you access: What exactly are you going to find in Zion's spending that tells you he isn't dedicated? Up thread, I mentioned--these kids aren't paying for training/equipment/nutrition. The schools take care of that. Zion doesn't need weights and protein. Duke makes sure he has it. Caleb Williams is taken care of by USC.

I've got way too much money in bourbon. And I hardly ever drank it. Do I have bad character for spending money on alcohol? I certainly don't think so. So if Caleb Williams bought a bunch of high end bourbon and rarely drinks it--character problems? I just don't agree with that.

The NFL right now has professional, highly paid players that drink alcohol and go to strip clubs. So it's ok to do once you're on the team, but we're gonna screen it before you get on the team? Just seems completely useless.

In Zion's case if I see he is ordering fast food multiple times a day while struggling to maintain weight that's a massive red flag. I'm sure if a team asks him he will tell them he is trying, but we can clearly see in his finances he isn't.

The alcohol and partying isn't a problem until it is. Manziel is a good example of that. From his first hand account he was up to all kinds of things franchises would frown upon. Did Cleveland know? I don't know but I'll bet they wish they had known more when they drafted him.

I don't know what the teams are looking for and it might not be how much is being spent on vices, but how often. What's an acceptable number of times to go to the nightclub a week? Someone going too often definitely complicates the issue of making that person the face of your Franchise.

Serious question: What do you think the financial review looks like? These kids aren't bringing bank records and credit card statements to NFL GM's. It's not real. You're not going to convince me that will ever happen. You can't even get the top NFL prospects to show up at the combine. Why do you think they're going to submit to this?

Zion was a generational college talent. He was a lock for the #1 pick. He's not going to provide them with information that they might try to use against him. But let's say he did:

Again, Zion was a generational college talent. How much do you move him down your draft board because he eats cheese burgers at 19 years old? And then they take who? Ja Morant? Well, what if he spent NIL Money on hand guns? Ok we're down to RJ Barrett. Well, what if RJ Went to the club a lot?

But, they're gonna skip the consensus #1/generational college talent over fast food receipts. I don't believe it.

Also, if this is such a valuable exercise, why not do this with your current players?

I don't know what the review looks like. It could be asking them to bring bank statements. I've been asked to provide bank records to my employer before so it doesn't seem that crazy to me. A player can always decline, but then they have to live with the results.

I think you're hung up on the generational talent angle. Teams aren't passing on big names because of something meaningless they might see in a finance report. These teams investigate the heck out of these kids already, this is just a new wrinkle for them to look at.

If say the Pats are drafting at 3 and they have to pick between Daniels/Maye or MHjr... if one of those prospects declines to discuss finances with them, it is what it is at that point. It might be meaningless or may swing the pick.

I'm not sold it is a valuable exercise, I'm just talking through where I think teams might be coming from with wanting this information. They don't know these kids and it's just another tool in the toolbox for them.

I don't think teams need it for current players because they know what they have in them. We've seen teams not resign their own players who have talent because off-field stuff becomes a distraction.

 

[GregR]

Could I see some teams actually asking to see some kind of accounting? I could maybe see a few, there are always some tales of the offensive stuff that teams have asked that are worse than that would be. It would make a team look bad in the prospect's eyes I'd think. I would hope it wouldn't be many teams.

However I could definitely see teams digging into prospect finances on their own as much as possible. Asking people around them in their lives what they spend stuff on. And I could easily see questions like, "So you signed a deal with Nike, I understand. How did that kind of money impact your life? What kind of things did you spend it on? Have you traveled much with it?"

"Well I got a house for mom and my brothers and sisters. Man you should have seen their faces. Also we set up a foundation in my hometown helping people with _______."

"Oh I got this sweet tricked out ride, and took all my boys down to Cozumel three weekends before the National Championship and..."

I mean yes, differing answers might not move someone by a round on their draft board. But it could be a difference between two players they are on the fence about.

 

[CalBear]

The idea is disgusting.

 

[Bri]

That's absurd. I hope the players balk and the union steps in for their prospective members