NFL vets push for Rookie Salary Cap (1 Viewer)

[massraider]

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_9327805

A threatening NFL lockout is just three years away and already, progress.

When Broncos owner Pat Bowlen and 31 of his NFL colleagues voted Tuesday to unanimously opt out of the current collective bargaining agreement following the 2010 season, complaints were cited.



Among them, the owners called "irrational" their economic system that pays exorbitant contracts to rookies, particularly those drafted among the top five to 10 picks.

"I'm with them on that," said Broncos safety John Lynch, who is entering his 16th season. "I'd like to come up with an NBA system where you put a cap on the rookies. I can see the owners' problem there. You look at JaMarcus Russell. He may turn out to be an awesome quarterback, but you're investing $60 million right off the bat. It's reached the point where everyone who picks in the top five wants to get the heck out of there. I would like to see that pool of money redistributed."

Now this is in addition to Kevin Mawae already speaking out.http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?i...ce=NFLHeadlines

On "The Herd" on ESPN Radio on Wednesday, Mawae, the Tennessee Titans center, commented on quarterback Matt Ryan signing a record-setting contract with the Atlanta Falcons.

"As a guy who has been in the league for 14 now going on 15 years and being around other veteran guys, for a young guy to get paid that kind of money and never steps foot on an NFL football field, it's a little disheartening to think of," Mawae said. "It makes it tough for a guy who's proven himself to say 'I want that kind of money' when the owners, all they're going to say is, 'Well, you weren't a first-round pick.'

"And I know there is sentiment around the league amongst the players like, 'Let's do something to control these salaries and control these signing bonuses' and things like that, and I know that's something that the owners are talking about and I'm sure that's going to play into this round of negotiations for this collective bargaining agreement," he said.

Now, a rookie cap would be great, as I think there'd be more cash for the vets that have earned it, but I'd like it mostly because I think you'd see a lot more action at the top of the draft.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Shocking news.

People would prefer that other people would give up their money to them.

 

[Harjiran]

Salaries for rookies taken in the first round are out of control, IMO. I'm glad to see some veteran players support the idea of instituting an NBA-style rookie cap.

 

[Chachi]

Mawae sounds like a big f'n baby.

 

[massraider]

On the other side of this, I will say that people have been saying that rookies are overpaid for as long as I can remember, and I am 35.

Have these crazy salaries hurt anything?

I am puzzled why Upshaw is so adamant that the union would never agree to a rook cap. One would think that he answers to the vets, most of them NOT top 5 draft picks.

 

[Rodeojones]

These vets are crazy if they think the owners will simply transfer the money that would have gone to the rookies and give it to the vets instead.

High rookie salaries ultimately benefit all when the vets can hold the rookie salaries as leverage.

 

[massraider]

These vets are crazy if they think the owners will simply transfer the money that would have gone to the rookies and give it to the vets instead.High rookie salaries ultimately benefit all when the vets can hold the rookie salaries as leverage.

I disagree with both these statements.If the salary cap is $125 mill, then the team is gonna spend it somewhere. They HAVE to spend a minimum, they can't just sit on the money. If Matt Ryan was only getting a 4 year deal for 12 mill, you don't think that may benefit other vets on the Falcons? I do.And high rookie salaries have resulted in many, many vets losing their jobs, as teams had to make room.

 

[massraider]

Re-reading my comment, one thing:

Is it fair to lock up these guys for 6 or 7 years, if there is a rookie cap? If these players are forced to accept a lower wage, shouldn't they get free agency a bit sooner?

 

[brock]

i've been waiting for a player vs. player strike.

 

[switz]

i've been waiting for a player vs. player strike.

The good news is that 2011 NFL rookies have no say in the CBA. Rookies drafted this year are already going to get their money. And vets will all be in agreement with a rookie cap.The only people against this will be agents and future rookies - and neither one has a say in the CBA.

 

[FUBAR]

Re-reading my comment, one thing:Is it fair to lock up these guys for 6 or 7 years, if there is a rookie cap? If these players are forced to accept a lower wage, shouldn't they get free agency a bit sooner?

I think that's a fair point and one that may happen.OTOH, if they sign a 3 year contract with (assuming) less guaranteed money, they may be screwing themselves.I'd like to see a NBA style system with bonuses for those rookies who play well and contribute in other ways. Give the head coach some discretion to give bonuses based on whatever criteria he wants.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Re-reading my comment, one thing:Is it fair to lock up these guys for 6 or 7 years, if there is a rookie cap? If these players are forced to accept a lower wage, shouldn't they get free agency a bit sooner?

I think that's a fair point and one that may happen.OTOH, if they sign a 3 year contract with (assuming) less guaranteed money, they may be screwing themselves.I'd like to see a NBA style system with bonuses for those rookies who play well and contribute in other ways. Give the head coach some discretion to give bonuses based on whatever criteria he wants.

Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be let everyone decide what to do for themselves?Are we supposed to put a cap on rookie salaries out of thin air? And why? If we could have some invisible hand guiding us to the correct price, wouldn't that be preferable?

 

[Bri]

when GMs, Coaches, and fans stop thinking so many of the draft picks will cure everything that's wrong their team....then this will happen. One player makes or breaks a good team in April

 

[FUBAR]

Re-reading my comment, one thing:Is it fair to lock up these guys for 6 or 7 years, if there is a rookie cap? If these players are forced to accept a lower wage, shouldn't they get free agency a bit sooner?

I think that's a fair point and one that may happen.OTOH, if they sign a 3 year contract with (assuming) less guaranteed money, they may be screwing themselves.I'd like to see a NBA style system with bonuses for those rookies who play well and contribute in other ways. Give the head coach some discretion to give bonuses based on whatever criteria he wants.

Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be let everyone decide what to do for themselves?Are we supposed to put a cap on rookie salaries out of thin air? And why? If we could have some invisible hand guiding us to the correct price, wouldn't that be preferable?

The problem I have with the current system is the teams don't have a viable option. They either try to trade down, with varying success, or they draft the player. Then what? Should they stand firm and not sign the player unless he's willing to take less than his peers? Then the team loses out on the player, and the fans would rally against the team (presumably). I suppose the player could eventually take less, but how likely is that? Most agents won't let that happen.

 

[djmich]

Re-reading my comment, one thing:Is it fair to lock up these guys for 6 or 7 years, if there is a rookie cap? If these players are forced to accept a lower wage, shouldn't they get free agency a bit sooner?

I agree it should not be 7yrs to free agency.I haven't been paying close attention but in light of the comments about a #1 pick putting the poor organizations in distress has the trade value chart dropped in recent years?

 

[Kleck]

Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be let everyone decide what to do for themselves?

Ideally, yes. And while we're at it, can we please scrap the IRS and pretty much the entire US Govt. as well?

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Only the top 7 or so rookies even get paid a bunch of money.

The other 200+ players get paid below market value.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You want to see a serious overpayment?

Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

 

[FUBAR]

You want to see a serious overpayment?Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Maybe. You might have 8 interested teams. He'd be competing with Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm, Johnson, Booty and Woodson to make the best talent/cost benefit. I personally didn't see a huge drop off in talent from Ryan to the next 4 (although judging by draft slot, I may be wrong).

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You want to see a serious overpayment?Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Maybe. You might have 8 interested teams. He'd be competing with Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm, Johnson, Booty and Woodson to make the best talent/cost benefit. I personally didn't see a huge drop off in talent from Ryan to the next 4 (although judging by draft slot, I may be wrong).

No maybe about it. Matt Ryan would get paid more then he just got.Regardless of the other lesser talents available.

 

[Riffraff]

If they institute a rookie cap, just imagine the early draft declarations by higher prized Juniors the year before it starts.

If they are lower level guys, they probably wait for the cap to take effect for a better deal as a later pick.

 

[massraider]

You want to see a serious overpayment?Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Maybe. You might have 8 interested teams. He'd be competing with Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm, Johnson, Booty and Woodson to make the best talent/cost benefit. I personally didn't see a huge drop off in talent from Ryan to the next 4 (although judging by draft slot, I may be wrong).

I don't think there's even an argument.The Ravens alone would have driven up his price.How about if McFadden and Dorsey were on the FA market?

 

[Bri]

You want to see a serious overpayment?Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Maybe. You might have 8 interested teams. He'd be competing with Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm, Johnson, Booty and Woodson to make the best talent/cost benefit. I personally didn't see a huge drop off in talent from Ryan to the next 4 (although judging by draft slot, I may be wrong).

No maybe about it. Matt Ryan would get paid more then he just got.Regardless of the other lesser talents available.

It wouldn't stop at just Matt Ryan, it would have to go on. Then there'd quickly be teams running into bankruptcy. Not long ago the Vikes were complaining about money and salaries. The Bills seem to involve Toronto to increase their revenue to (among other things) pay salaries. Jerry Jones, Johnson of the Jets, Snyder, Blank, Kraft they all have tons of money but there will be a point that they won't give it up. Suppose a team "only" makes 200 mil if they win the Supe from all sorts of revenues combined. How many owners will pay more than 200 mil in salaries then?There's a ceiling to the spending somewhere, alot of NFL owners are sharp businessmen as well. Don't forget that

 

[BigSteelThrill]

You want to see a serious overpayment?

Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Maybe. You might have 8 interested teams. He'd be competing with Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm, Johnson, Booty and Woodson to make the best talent/cost benefit. I personally didn't see a huge drop off in talent from Ryan to the next 4 (although judging by draft slot, I may be wrong).

No maybe about it. Matt Ryan would get paid more then he just got.Regardless of the other lesser talents available.

It wouldn't stop at just Matt Ryan, it would have to go on. Then there'd quickly be teams running into bankruptcy. Not long ago the Vikes were complaining about money and salaries. The Bills seem to involve Toronto to increase their revenue to (among other things) pay salaries. Jerry Jones, Johnson of the Jets, Snyder, Blank, Kraft they all have tons of money but there will be a point that they won't give it up. Suppose a team "only" makes 200 mil if they win the Supe from all sorts of revenues combined. How many owners will pay more than 200 mil in salaries then?

There's a ceiling to the spending somewhere, alot of NFL owners are sharp businessmen as well. Don't forget that

EXACTLY!!!Ive been saying for years that the rookie system is saving the NFL a ton of money.

That is, when compared to a free enterprise system that the citizens of the USA have.

 

[massraider]

You want to see a serious overpayment?

Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Maybe. You might have 8 interested teams. He'd be competing with Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm, Johnson, Booty and Woodson to make the best talent/cost benefit. I personally didn't see a huge drop off in talent from Ryan to the next 4 (although judging by draft slot, I may be wrong).

No maybe about it. Matt Ryan would get paid more then he just got.Regardless of the other lesser talents available.

It wouldn't stop at just Matt Ryan, it would have to go on. Then there'd quickly be teams running into bankruptcy. Not long ago the Vikes were complaining about money and salaries. The Bills seem to involve Toronto to increase their revenue to (among other things) pay salaries. Jerry Jones, Johnson of the Jets, Snyder, Blank, Kraft they all have tons of money but there will be a point that they won't give it up. Suppose a team "only" makes 200 mil if they win the Supe from all sorts of revenues combined. How many owners will pay more than 200 mil in salaries then?

There's a ceiling to the spending somewhere, alot of NFL owners are sharp businessmen as well. Don't forget that

EXACTLY!!!Ive been saying for years that the rookie system is saving the NFL a ton of money.

That is, when compared to a free enterprise system that the citizens of the USA have.

I wonder how many people are really concerned about the financial well-being of their favorite team, and how many are just jealous that some kid that hasn't earned it, is getting paid. Lot of folks get pretty heated about the salaries of perfect strangers.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

I wonder how many people are really concerned about the financial well-being of their favorite team, and how many are just jealous that some kid that hasn't earned it, is getting paid. Lot of folks get pretty heated about the salaries of perfect strangers.

If you are a lawyer with a degree from Appalachian St who has won 70% of his trials for the ABCD firm in New York.

You aren't going to cry when the valedictorian at Harvard Law comes in at twice the pay and the corner office.

Well, you might cry, but its understood by everyone there at the firm that the collegiate history and/or potential of Mr New Guy is massive.

 

[Banger]

long overdue

 

[coolnerd]

I wonder how many people are really concerned about the financial well-being of their favorite team, and how many are just jealous that some kid that hasn't earned it, is getting paid. Lot of folks get pretty heated about the salaries of perfect strangers.

Overall, many average joes are jealous of most of the players because they are merely playing a game. A twenty-two year old who gets money on speculation only makes the sentiment worse. Heck, in the so-called real world, I have seen people darn near quit jobs when they found out that some "younger" or "not as good" worker was making like a thousand or two more. Anyone who thought Upshaw was speaking the sentiment of the veteran membership is ignoring human nature. His stance is about keeping a bargaining chip, not anything that reflects the real attitude of veteran players.

 

[massraider]

His stance is about keeping a bargaining chip, not anything that reflects the real attitude of veteran players.

That's interesting. I actually kind of believed the company line that the union wouldn't agree to a rook cap, but the comments of Mawae and Lynch make me think it's likely.

 

[Thunderlips]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

Who would you rather have... Kevin Mawae + John Lynch or Chris Long?How much more would I rather have Chris Long? Easily I'd take Long at 45million for 5 years vs. 10 million for 5 years for both. And then some.If you want a bigger payout... establish yourself during you tryouts and collegiate career.Now once we drop out of the top 8 picks... rookie salaries arent very high at all.

 

[FUBAR]

You want to see a serious overpayment?

Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Maybe. You might have 8 interested teams. He'd be competing with Ryan, Flacco, Henne, Brohm, Johnson, Booty and Woodson to make the best talent/cost benefit. I personally didn't see a huge drop off in talent from Ryan to the next 4 (although judging by draft slot, I may be wrong).

No maybe about it. Matt Ryan would get paid more then he just got.Regardless of the other lesser talents available.

It wouldn't stop at just Matt Ryan, it would have to go on. Then there'd quickly be teams running into bankruptcy. Not long ago the Vikes were complaining about money and salaries. The Bills seem to involve Toronto to increase their revenue to (among other things) pay salaries. Jerry Jones, Johnson of the Jets, Snyder, Blank, Kraft they all have tons of money but there will be a point that they won't give it up. Suppose a team "only" makes 200 mil if they win the Supe from all sorts of revenues combined. How many owners will pay more than 200 mil in salaries then?

There's a ceiling to the spending somewhere, alot of NFL owners are sharp businessmen as well. Don't forget that

EXACTLY!!!Ive been saying for years that the rookie system is saving the NFL a ton of money.

That is, when compared to a free enterprise system that the citizens of the USA have.

I'd like to see the chance to prove it. If this were Peyton, Leaf, Palmer, or Eli you'd probably be right, I just don't think Ryan is that caliber of prospect. The biggest reason he went this high, and was offered a contract he couldn't refuse, is the desire to get past the Vick stench. Even if you're right here, a team wouldn't be forced to pay the rookies these salaries, they could instead pay the proven veterans if they chose to run their team that way.

 

[coolnerd]

His stance is about keeping a bargaining chip, not anything that reflects the real attitude of veteran players.

That's interesting. I actually kind of believed the company line that the union wouldn't agree to a rook cap, but the comments of Mawae and Lynch make me think it's likely.

Especially in a business where individuals earn thier job and then are paid on production, giving young guys with potential more than guys who have done it runs counter to every other piece of information these guys are told. Players like Mawae and Lynch don't begrudge the individual player because Ryan and his agent are doing what the system is set up for him to benefit. Upshaw will earn every bit of his money if he can keep this issue from spliting the union and after the next contract having a system which looks like the one the NFL has now.

 

[massraider]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

I agree.But there's a lot of things that don't make sense in the NFL, like how retirees are treated, or.....the draft. But those things don't bother the average fan. 22 year olds getting a lot of money? Makes em crazy.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

Ted Ginn got 13 million for 5 years as the #9 overall pick.

Whop-dee-doo.

 

[Thunderlips]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

Who would you rather have... Kevin Mawae + John Lynch or Chris Long?How much more would I rather have Chris Long? Easily I'd take Long at 45million for 5 years vs. 10 million for 5 years for both. And then some.If you want a bigger payout... establish yourself during you tryouts and collegiate career.Now once we drop out of the top 8 picks... rookie salaries arent very high at all.

Mawae and Lynch have been in the league for over 30 years combined. To say that you'd rather have a top-rated rookie over them isn't much of a stretch.....even at the salary rate you've said. I'd rather have (at the period in time of their contrat dispute) a Terrell Owens or Lito Sheppard than an unproven Long anyday of the week though.ETA: Those are the types of players I would see benefit most from a rookie salary cap....younger, established NFL players who still have gas in the tank.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

Who would you rather have... Kevin Mawae + John Lynch or Chris Long?How much more would I rather have Chris Long? Easily I'd take Long at 45million for 5 years vs. 10 million for 5 years for both. And then some.If you want a bigger payout... establish yourself during you tryouts and collegiate career.Now once we drop out of the top 8 picks... rookie salaries arent very high at all.

Mawae and Lynch have been in the league for over 30 years combined. To say that you'd rather have a top-rated rookie over them isn't much of a stretch.....even at the salary rate you've said. I'd rather have (at the period in time of their contrat dispute) a Terrell Owens or Lito Sheppard than an unproven Long anyday of the week.

As of today I'd rather have Long over Owens. Yet Owens makes 8+ million a year also. But he is 34. Long could be a bookend for a dozen years. And if Im sold on him enough to be the #2 pick...And lito isnt even in the coversation.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

Who will you draft first in your dynasty league? Thomas Jones or Darren McFadden?If the answer is McFadden, why would you devote more of your capital to an unproven player than a quality vet?

 

[Kitrick Taylor]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

Who will you draft first in your dynasty league? Thomas Jones or Darren McFadden?If the answer is McFadden, why would you devote more of your capital to an unproven player than a quality vet?

The problem isn't Thomas Jones vs Darren McFadden. The problem is Steven Jackson vs Darren McFadden. McFadden will likely get something similar to Gaines Adams last year. 6 years 42 million. According to rotoworld, Jackson is in the last year of his 5 year 7 million dollar deal. Who would you draft first in your dynasty league? McFadden or Jackson?The rookie salaries need to be restructured on two fronts.1. The top picks are getting too much guaranteed money. As has been mentioned plenty of times earlier in this thread, they haven't proven anything on the pro level.2. Players picked after 7-8 are signing 4-5 year deals which many times end up being great bargains for the teams. If the player doesn't work out he's cut. I think a rookie cap should be structured something like this:Every rookie deal is three years. The fourth year the player will be a restricted free agent. The team has to tender an offer 50% greater than his year 3 salary (signing bonuses etc to be averaged in) to keep his restricted status. If that player signs with another team, the new team owes the original team a draft pick in the round that player was selected. The second team option should be for three times the amount of the players third year average salary. That would give the original team first round protection. All players not signed to long term deals would be unrestricted free agents after their fourth season. In exchange for granting free agency earlier the NFL teams would get a rookie cap. The rookie cap could be set as a percentage of the overall NFL salary cap.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

The problem is Steven Jackson

Not really. Stephen Jackson is expected to get a massive payday.Rams' Steven Jackson Heads Into Contract Year, Says, 'I Expect to Be Rewarded'

Posted May 12th 2008 8:26AM by Michael David Smith

Filed under: Rams, St. Louis

St. Louis Rams running back Steven Jackson is 24 years old, he has three straight 1,000-yard seasons, and he's heading into the final year of his contract. No surprise, he's thinking about a big payday coming soon.

He tells the St. Louis Post-Dispatch:

"I think I've been a good person on and off the field," Jackson said Saturday at minicamp, "so I expect to be rewarded."

 

[Chase Stuart]

It's not about an average joe upset that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It's about an estalished NFL vet upse that an unproven 22 year old is making money. It never made sense to me that some guy who might never win a starting spot in the league makes more than a quality vet.

Who will you draft first in your dynasty league? Thomas Jones or Darren McFadden?If the answer is McFadden, why would you devote more of your capital to an unproven player than a quality vet?

The problem isn't Thomas Jones vs Darren McFadden. The problem is Steven Jackson vs Darren McFadden. McFadden will likely get something similar to Gaines Adams last year. 6 years 42 million. According to rotoworld, Jackson is in the last year of his 5 year 7 million dollar deal. Who would you draft first in your dynasty league? McFadden or Jackson?The rookie salaries need to be restructured on two fronts.1. The top picks are getting too much guaranteed money. As has been mentioned plenty of times earlier in this thread, they haven't proven anything on the pro level.2. Players picked after 7-8 are signing 4-5 year deals which many times end up being great bargains for the teams. If the player doesn't work out he's cut. I think a rookie cap should be structured something like this:Every rookie deal is three years. The fourth year the player will be a restricted free agent. The team has to tender an offer 50% greater than his year 3 salary (signing bonuses etc to be averaged in) to keep his restricted status. If that player signs with another team, the new team owes the original team a draft pick in the round that player was selected. The second team option should be for three times the amount of the players third year average salary. That would give the original team first round protection. All players not signed to long term deals would be unrestricted free agents after their fourth season. In exchange for granting free agency earlier the NFL teams would get a rookie cap. The rookie cap could be set as a percentage of the overall NFL salary cap.

Why should a player who hasn't proven anything at the pro level make more than Thomas Jones but not more than Steven Jackson? What possible reason do you have to draw the line where you've drawn it?Why put these random and arbitrary limits on contract length and salary?

 

[FavreCo]

About time. This is way overdue.

 

[FavreCo]

These vets are crazy if they think the owners will simply transfer the money that would have gone to the rookies and give it to the vets instead.High rookie salaries ultimately benefit all when the vets can hold the rookie salaries as leverage.

I disagree with both these statements.If the salary cap is $125 mill, then the team is gonna spend it somewhere. They HAVE to spend a minimum, they can't just sit on the money. If Matt Ryan was only getting a 4 year deal for 12 mill, you don't think that may benefit other vets on the Falcons? I do.And high rookie salaries have resulted in many, many vets losing their jobs, as teams had to make room.

Bingo!

 

[mdog1967]

Wouldn't the easiest thing to do be let everyone decide what to do for themselves?

Ideally, yes. And while we're at it, can we please scrap the IRS and pretty much the entire US Govt. as well?

Hey now your making sense, I'm all for scrapping the IRS. Really equating what Chase said with that crap is asinine and pretty much just a smug smart *** response. Go get your little liberal hat and sit in the corner.

 

[GregR_2]

...Why should a player who hasn't proven anything at the pro level make more than Thomas Jones but not more than Steven Jackson? What possible reason do you have to draw the line where you've drawn it?Why put these random and arbitrary limits on contract length and salary?

I'm having a hard time believing you need explained what Thomas Jones has proven with his most recent season which was below NFL starter caliber, or the role that his age should have on our expectations for him in the near future. Or that you need explained what Steven Jackson has proven in regards to him performing amongst the top RBs in the league and accounting for him being at an age where he's still got years left at the top of his game. Nor that you need explained how it's likely McFadden, even when you account for his being unproven, likely slots in the middle of them in terms of expectations over the life of his rookie contract.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Shocking news.People would prefer that other people would give up their money to them.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

You want to see a serious overpayment?Put Matt Ryan as US citizen free to work with whomever he chooses... then watch the NFL bidding war.

Yes. Veteran free agents always cost more than rookies for similar expected production. Compare, for example, the $40M over seven years that Willis McGahee got last year with the $19M over five years that Marshawn Lynch got. If anything, most people probably expected Lynch to be more productive from that point forward. But since rookies can bargain only with a single team, unlike free agents who can start bidding wars with multiple teams, rookie contracts are always lower than veteran free agent contracts if other things (talent, etc.) are equal.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

The problem isn't Thomas Jones vs Darren McFadden. The problem is Steven Jackson vs Darren McFadden.

Steven Jackson is still in his rookie contract. If you think he isn't making enough money, that doesn't support the point that rookie contracts are too rich. It in fact supports exactly the opposite point.Rookies today are paid more than players who were rookies a few years ago (who are still in their rookie contracts) because the salary cap in general has increased quite a bit. All players signing contracts today will make more than they would have made a few years ago.But compare today's free agent veterans to today's rookies. Looking just at people signing contracts in 2008, the rookies are certainly not overpaid. A lot of mediocre veteran free agents were just handed contracts exceeding what most of this year's first-round draft picks will get.

 

[GregR_2]

The problem isn't Thomas Jones vs Darren McFadden. The problem is Steven Jackson vs Darren McFadden.

Steven Jackson is still in his rookie contract. If you think he isn't making enough, he doesn't exactly support the point that rookie contracts are too rich. It in fact supports exactly the opposite point.Rookies today are paid more than players who were rookies a few years ago (who are still in their rookie contracts) because the salary cap in general has increased quite a bit. All players signing contracts today will make more than they would have made a few years ago.But compare today's free agent veterans to today's rookies. Looking just at people signing contracts in 2008, the rookies are certainly not overpaid. A lot of mediocre veteran free agents were just handed contracts exceeding what most of this year's first-round draft picks will get.

I think the argument is generally understood to be that the most highly drafted rookies are making too much money relative to everyone else -- including vets and other rookies. Not that all rookies are making too much.SJax wasn't an early enough pick to be one of those guys whose salary per expectations were vastly higher than that of other player's expectations and salary. RBs like Cedric Benson, Ronnie Brown, and possibly Reggie Bush are more the guys that would be talked about in this fashion.Though I think I can can also reasonably argue it's less a problem at RB than at other positions because RBs can be productive right away and so often start right away. So RB isn't perhaps the best illustration. But not so bad that the point behind it can still be seen when looking at them.

 

[vandyt]

On the other side of this, I will say that people have been saying that rookies are overpaid for as long as I can remember, and I am 35.

Have these crazy salaries hurt anything?

I am puzzled why Upshaw is so adamant that the union would never agree to a rook cap. One would think that he answers to the vets, most of them NOT top 5 draft picks.

Tom Condon makes millions of $$$ on top 10 rookie picks.Tom Condon is on the NFLPA advisory board.

Tom Condon is Gene Upshaw's agent.

Not that hard to figure out.