Nick Saban was enamored with Jay Cutler (1 Viewer)

[mchaps55]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/13792761.htm

• Dolphins buzz: NFL folks at the Senior Bowl say coach Nick Saban was enamored with Jay Cutler and told a team official that Miami would be in great shape if it could acquire the Vanderbilt QB. . . . Saban associates say he wants to make a major signing on the O-line (New Orleans C LeCharles Bentley and Seattle G Steve Hutchinson are potential targets). Saban, by the way, commended Vernon Carey for making ''very nice progress'' at right tackle, though he was assured of nothing in a season-ending meeting. . . . CB Sam Madison (linked to K.C., Atlanta and San Diego) reiterated to friends he won't take a pay cut from Miami.

 

[Bloom]

if SF wins the coin flip, i expect miami to trade up to the 6. if they dont, Cutler may to oakland or Arizona, forcing Miami to possibly have to trade up to 4 to get Cutler. I dont expect GB to trade down or take Cutler.

 

[FTRWRTR]

Cutler is incredibly overrated IMO. He shows too much confidence in his abilites and as a result makes some really bad decisions. Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick. The fact a number of ppl on the internet are saying he's the best qb in the draft is simply unbelieveable

 

[MLBrandow]

Guarantee you Cutler falls out of the first round now, maybe back to the third.

Everyone is all over his nuts at a point when misinformation is being disseminated like wildfire.

I think the more substantial information in your excerpt is clearly the Sam Madison problem. If he goes, he's money to sign with KC. And that would substantially change their draft strategy.

 

[harrycarey]

Cutler is incredibly overrated IMO. He shows too much confidence in his abilites and as a result makes some really bad decisions. Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick. The fact a number of ppl on the internet are saying he's the best qb in the draft is simply unbelieveable

He had no talent around him on offense at Vanderbilt so I think you have to do a bit more projecting and look past his numbers more then you would with most qb's. He's got a cannon, scrambling ability, ability to throw on the run, leadership skills and is confident

 

[ooofffaaa]

Just last year Saban was saying he was drafting Braylon Edwards at #2.

Does anyone actually think that Nick Saban wants to tip his hand at who the Dolphins are looking at in the draft?

The more interesting piece of that story is the Dolphins interest in Hutchinson from SEA or Bentley from NO to bolster their Oline.

 

[Finatic]

Just last year Saban was saying he was drafting Braylon Edwards at #2.

Does anyone actually think that Nick Saban wants to tip his hand at who the Dolphins are looking at in the draft?

The more interesting piece of that story is the Dolphins interest in Hutchinson from SEA or Bentley from NO to bolster their Oline.

Agreed,Looks to be a trip by Saban

 

[Double_J]

All I saw of Cutler was when Vandy played LSU. Time and time again when LSU came after him he just folded up and took the sack. Don't know if he's worth a top 10 pick in the draft. I think Saban will take Whitworth in the second round for that OL.

 

[FTRWRTR]

Cutler is incredibly overrated IMO.  He shows too much confidence in his abilites and as a result makes some really bad decisions.  Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick.  The fact a number of ppl on the internet are saying he's the best qb in the draft is simply unbelieveable

He had no talent around him on offense at Vanderbilt so I think you have to do a bit more projecting and look past his numbers more then you would with most qb's. He's got a cannon, scrambling ability, ability to throw on the run, leadership skills and is confident

True, vandy doesn't have a lot of talent but I wasn't impressed with what I saw out of him in the senior bowl, either. He may have all the great physical tools that u mentioned but mental aspect of the game is where he'll struggle

 

[diesel7982]

Cutler is incredibly overrated IMO. He shows too much confidence in his abilites and as a result makes some really bad decisions. Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick. The fact a number of ppl on the internet are saying he's the best qb in the draft is simply unbelieveable

If I were an NFL GM, Id be all over Cody Hodges. His stats were AWESOME.

 

[Capella]

Guarantee you Cutler falls out of the first round now, maybe back to the third.

Want to put some cash on that?

 

[cstu]

Cutler is incredibly overrated IMO. He shows too much confidence in his abilites and as a result makes some really bad decisions. Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick. The fact a number of ppl on the internet are saying he's the best qb in the draft is simply unbelieveable

God forbid an NFL QB has confidence throwing the ball...College stats are meaningless and regardless where you think Cutler ranks with the other QB's in the draft you have to think with his skills he has a shot to be a good NFL QB.

 

[MLBrandow]

Guarantee you Cutler falls out of the first round now, maybe back to the third.

Want to put some cash on that?

No, because the Jaguars still have a pick in the first round.

 

[Capella]

Guarantee you Cutler falls out of the first round now, maybe back to the third.

Want to put some cash on that?

No, because the Jaguars still have a pick in the first round.

 

[Chaos Commish]

if SF wins the coin flip, i expect miami to trade up to the 6. if they dont, Cutler may to oakland or Arizona, forcing Miami to possibly have to trade up to 4 to get Cutler. I dont expect GB to trade down or take Cutler.

I've decided the Jets have no choice but to trade down. As much as I like Cutler, you have to think Brick, Hawk, Mario all go before him (even a few others would make the most sense). I'd be shocked if a team invested that much in Cutler (even though he could be worth it if the planets align). This isn't the first rumbling from Saban about gettting a young QB. Miami should be able to work something out with Detroit or AZ and still be certain to land Cutler. Honestly, they should be able to stand pat, but maybe Saban can be duped into moving up for him?? Would Denny Green or Matt Millen draft Jay Cutler? I have my doubts.

 

[MLBrandow]

Guarantee you Cutler falls out of the first round now, maybe back to the third.

Want to put some cash on that?

No, because the Jaguars still have a pick in the first round.

sorry, it was a 3rd degree joke. You know how the Jaguars drafted that other QB last year who's draft stock suddenly shot from late day 1 to "best player in the draft"... to become a first round pick for no apparent reason....I mean, someone will buy Jay Cutler... but it will be one of the stupid franchises like New Orleans, Buffalo, Detroit... you know, the ones that don't ever win super bowls.

 

[Gatorman]

I don't see saban trading up. Not to say he won't, but I know that between now and then a bunch of stuff needs to be settled before he makes that pick.

While Jay Cutler to the Dolphins makes the most sense from a team need/fit scenario, this dolphin team still has a lot of holes. Lets hope that Saban has another QB or 3 he likes later and gets a LT or CB at that pick if Cutler goes early.

 

[Sabertooth]

if SF wins the coin flip, i expect miami to trade up to the 6. if they dont, Cutler may to oakland or Arizona, forcing Miami to possibly have to trade up to 4 to get Cutler. I dont expect GB to trade down or take Cutler.

I read this snippet in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal about Packers GM Ted Thompson:

Mike Holmgren, then the coach and general manager in Seattle, lured Thompson away from the Packers in January 2000. His title was vice president of football operations, and with rare exception in the drafts from 2000 through 2004 the selections were made by Thompson, according to Seahawks vice president Mike Reinfeldt.

Trading down six times and never once trading up, Thompson ended up with 46 choices in the five drafts, 12 more than the norm. Of those 46 players, three have made the Pro Bowl, 33 started at least one game, 19 are on the current 53-man roster (two are in reserve categories) and all but four played in at least one game.

So it would appear that Green Bay trading pack is certainly a possibility especially to a team like Miami, who is only a few slots behind them. He also had the MO of trading back last season while running the Packers draft. He'd trade back, use the first pick acquired in the trade on a player and generally trade back again with the second pick. I believe Green Bay only has 6 picks this year so I'd almost certainly think that Ted Thompson will drop back as some point. Whether it's in the first round or not remains to be scene, but it would surprise or dissappoint me if he did.Thompson Article

 

[JaxBill]

Guarantee you Cutler falls out of the first round now, maybe back to the third.

Want to put some cash on that?

No, because the Jaguars still have a pick in the first round.

sorry, it was a 3rd degree joke. You know how the Jaguars drafted that other QB last year who's draft stock suddenly shot from late day 1 to "best player in the draft"... to become a first round pick for no apparent reason....

You mean the WR with more receiving TDs than Braylon Edwards and Roddy White?

 

[Loopdog]

doesnt anyone ever notice that Top 10 Qb's VERY RARELY pan out

it can be argued you can find a QB as good in the 6th round as you can in the 1st

i think Cutler is overrated, reminds me of the jump JP Losman took a few years ago because of his "physical skills"

gimme a guy who wins and has intangibles way before a guy who can throw the ball through a wall

Loop

 

[dotman]

Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick.

I guess you could ask the Bengals, who drafted Carson Palmer.

 

[FTRWRTR]

Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick. 

I guess you could ask the Bengals, who drafted Carson Palmer.

Carson Palmer's last collegiate year he had a little over over a 3:1 TD to INT ratio and completed over 63% of his passes. This past year Jay cutler had a litte over a 2:1 TD to INT ratio and completed 59.1% of his passes. In addition palmer threw about 900 more yards than cutler did so in all phases of the game palmer was superior.

 

[cstu]

Plus I don't see how someone whose career stats include a 1.5:1 TD-INT ratio and a completion percentage of 57.1 is a top ten pick.

I guess you could ask the Bengals, who drafted Carson Palmer.

Carson Palmer's last collegiate year he had a little over over a 3:1 TD to INT ratio and completed over 63% of his passes. This past year Jay cutler had a litte over a 2:1 TD to INT ratio and completed 59.1% of his passes. In addition palmer threw about 900 more yards than cutler did so in all phases of the game palmer was superior.

Please name any of Cutler's WR's or RB's.

 

[nygiants56]

Just last year Saban was saying he was drafting Braylon Edwards at #2.

Does anyone actually think that Nick Saban wants to tip his hand at who the Dolphins are looking at in the draft?

The more interesting piece of that story is the Dolphins interest in Hutchinson from SEA or Bentley from NO to bolster their Oline.

if they get hutchinson or bentley, ronnie brown becomes at top 10 RB in 2006, IMO..

wow..good find! thanks for the heads up on that

 

[weasel3515]

If Saban likes Cutler so much he will try to swap Ricky Williams to Arizona for the pick or maybe a second round plus Ricky for the first round pick. The Phish might even get lucky and grab Cutler in the second round. I think it makes more sense for Miami to try to pry Matt Schaub from Atlanta as an immediate starter.

 

[Kai's Hero]

http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/sports/13792761.htm

• Dolphins buzz: NFL folks at the Senior Bowl say coach Nick Saban was enamored with Jay Cutler and told a team official that Miami would be in great shape if it could acquire the Vanderbilt QB. . . . Saban associates say he wants to make a major signing on the O-line (New Orleans C LeCharles Bentley and Seattle G Steve Hutchinson are potential targets). Saban, by the way, commended Vernon Carey for making ''very nice progress'' at right tackle, though he was assured of nothing in a season-ending meeting. . . . CB Sam Madison (linked to K.C., Atlanta and San Diego) reiterated to friends he won't take a pay cut from Miami.

Hutch will get the franchise tag with Seattle and will not be available. Seattle will, again, have the best OL in the NFL in 2006.

 

[Z-Dog]

doesnt anyone ever notice that Top 10 Qb's VERY RARELY pan out

it can be argued you can find a QB as good in the 6th round as you can in the 1st

i think Cutler is overrated, reminds me of the jump JP Losman took a few years ago because of his "physical skills"

gimme a guy who wins and has intangibles way before a guy who can throw the ball through a wall

Loop

QBsNumber of 1st rounders currently starting in the NFL: 21 0f 32

Number of 6th rounders or later starting: 6 of 32.

Now, as it happens, those 6 are pretty good - Hasselbeck, Frerrote, Brady, Delhomme, Green, and Warner. Two of them have Superbowl rings, which is pretty darn-tootin' good. But ask yourself what percentage of 6th-rounder QB stay on a roster more than 2 years, much less become starters. Also note that aside from the freakish Brady, all of these guys developed later in their careers, after extensive apprenticeships or NFLE play. Some guys who fall to the 6th are big-upside players who are very raw and may never fulfill their potential. It's no surprise that a few of them finally do so. But counting on it is just plain foolish. You take a shot at a late-round QB every few years, but it's a long-term gamble, not a solution to your starting QB position.

 

[Jason Wood]

I know it's the logical thing to assume everything publicly said by a GM/coach about the draft is misdirection, but last year it was no secret that Saban loved Ronnie Brown and everyone [well, most everyone] insisted he wouldn't take Brown at #2 for that very reason...when in fact that's exactly what he did.

I don't think the Fins will have to move up to 6 to grab Cutler, although they may not be able to grab him at 16...

 

[Chaos Commish]

I know it's the logical thing to assume everything publicly said by a GM/coach about the draft is misdirection, but last year it was no secret that Saban loved Ronnie Brown and everyone [well, most everyone] insisted he wouldn't take Brown at #2 for that very reason...when in fact that's exactly what he did.

I don't think the Fins will have to move up to 6 to grab Cutler, although they may not be able to grab him at 16...

I've been scouring press conferences, Q and As at team sites, solid articles with direct quotes from big dogs, etc., and I think they are far more forthright in these discussions than most assume. I even think there's a much larger body of evidence to support them being genuine with their thoughts than there is to the conspiratorial notion of smokescreens. That being said, I really don't think the Dolphins should budge if they covet Cutler. Moving up means sacrificing something. A mid-first rounder is all they should have to pay. If another team takes him (oak, det, az), so be it. The player they'll get in the 1st round will be very very good, and Saban wants to "develop" a young QB. Part of that process could include a big upgrade to the OL in round 1, and picking between Jacobs, Whitehurst, Croyle, and a number of other developmental QBs who should be available through the 4th round.

 

[ooofffaaa]

I know it's the logical thing to assume everything publicly said by a GM/coach about the draft is misdirection, but last year it was no secret that Saban loved Ronnie Brown and everyone [well, most everyone] insisted he wouldn't take Brown at #2 for that very reason...when in fact that's exactly what he did.

I don't think the Fins will have to move up to 6 to grab Cutler, although they may not be able to grab him at 16...

I remember Saban being enamored with Braylon Edwards last year at #2. If Cutler makes it past Detroit and Arizona I think he'll definitely be available at #16.

Didn't OAK draft a QB last year?

 

[mbuehner]

Cutler is intriguing to me because so many former NFL QBs (and current for that matter) have made note of him. I tend to listen to QBs because they are watching a QBs mechanics, footwork, and decision making instead of the result of the play (critical when evaluting a college game). Look at JP Losman, so many people were salivating over him because he made so many big plays, but if you watched _him_ during the play your eyebrows went up. The plays they showed in his draft coverage may have resulted in TDs but they if anything showed the flaws in his style. It will take a long time to wrinkle out his mechanics if it can ever be done, _particularly_ because they were successful in the past. Guys like him always fall back on habits that once worked but will get you killed in the NFL. A guy who has good mechanics and is well coached will fall back on good habits and drastically shorten his learning curve.

Cutler has been well coached and so long as he has the arm strength (which he does) he is an excellent prospect. He'd be a very nice fit in Miami, with a much improved o-line, emerging running game, and a couple top notch recieving targets. Of all the QBs i'd only throw Cutler and Leinart into a situation like that to start the season, because (although they will make a lot of mistakes) they seem ready to roll.

 

[FFFIEND]

Saban is way too slick to let out any information he doesn't intend to. He is probably just blowing some smoke to help him in the draft. That is what I would do.

Prediction: Saban will have the Dolphins in the playoff within the next two seasons. (and I could care less about the dolphins).

 

[ren hoek]

Saban is way too slick to let out any information he doesn't intend to. He is probably just blowing some smoke to help him in the draft. That is what I would do.

Prediction: Saban will have the Dolphins in the playoff within the next two seasons. (and I could care less about the dolphins).

you can't get ballsy predictions like that anywhere else.

 

[el centro]

if SF wins the coin flip, i expect miami to trade up to the 6. if they dont, Cutler may to oakland or Arizona, forcing Miami to possibly have to trade up to 4 to get Cutler. I dont expect GB to trade down or take Cutler.

I read this snippet in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinal about Packers GM Ted Thompson:

Mike Holmgren, then the coach and general manager in Seattle, lured Thompson away from the Packers in January 2000. His title was vice president of football operations, and with rare exception in the drafts from 2000 through 2004 the selections were made by Thompson, according to Seahawks vice president Mike Reinfeldt.

Trading down six times and never once trading up, Thompson ended up with 46 choices in the five drafts, 12 more than the norm. Of those 46 players, three have made the Pro Bowl, 33 started at least one game, 19 are on the current 53-man roster (two are in reserve categories) and all but four played in at least one game.

So it would appear that Green Bay trading pack is certainly a possibility especially to a team like Miami, who is only a few slots behind them. He also had the MO of trading back last season while running the Packers draft. He'd trade back, use the first pick acquired in the trade on a player and generally trade back again with the second pick. I believe Green Bay only has 6 picks this year so I'd almost certainly think that Ted Thompson will drop back as some point. Whether it's in the first round or not remains to be scene, but it would surprise or dissappoint me if he did.Thompson Article

GB only has 6 picks now, but I think they should get most likely an extra 3rd/4th and possibly another 1-2 picks as supplementals for the players they lost last offseason.

 

[diesel7982]

doesnt anyone ever notice that Top 10 Qb's VERY RARELY pan out

it can be argued you can find a QB as good in the 6th round as you can in the 1st

i think Cutler is overrated, reminds me of the jump JP Losman took a few years ago because of his "physical skills"

gimme a guy who wins and has intangibles way before a guy who can throw the ball through a wall

Loop

Hi. Please watch and get to know Jay Culter before saying something so horribly wrong.And whats your definition of VERY RARELY?

Lets take a look at the top 10 QB picks from the last 10 years.

1995: Collins, McNair

1998: Manning, Leaf

1999: Couch, McNabb, Smith, Culpepper

2001: Vick

2002: Carr, Harrington

2003: Palmer, Leftwich

2004: Manning, Rivers, Roethlisberger(pick 11)

Ive bolded the guys I would consider "franchise QBs" and italicized those who have had success, but maybe aren't top 10 type guys.

So doing the math, we have 8 franchise QBs, 2 guys with solid careers, and 4 guys I would consider busts, with 2 guys(Carr, Rivers) I cant fully judge.

So unless you consider VERY RARELY to equal 50%, Id say youre going to have to explain why you think the way you do.

 

[Sinrman]

At first, I thought "Well, Cutler played for the not-so-stellar Commodores, and they aren't exactly known for their offense." I then said to myself, "He played in the SEC, arguably the toughest conference in college, and he did well this year."

I then looked at his stats, and saw a 20/9 TD/INT line, and felt again that he's looking pretty decent.

But then I looked deeper into the stats, and I'm not too impressed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=115374

This past season, he had 20 TDs and 9 INTs. He had an easy schedule the first five games, racking up 7 TDs and 3 INTs. Then he got into the tough part of his schedule, having to play LSU, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, and Tennessee (and Kentucky, too, but they aren't real great). He went 9 TDs and 6 INTs in those games, with a poor performance against LSU and Georgia (both at home), a so-so performance against South Carolina (decent yards, but 1 TD 1 INT only), and nice performance against Florida and Tennessee (both away). The Florida game leaves some hope, having gone 28-42, 361 yards passing, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, and a 160.77 rating. The Tennessee one though, you can pretty much throw out, since they were pretty pathetic this year.

He had some good games, and did ok at least against the tough teams with a suspect offense, but you also can't overlook his past either.

2002 10/9

2003 18/13

2004 10/5

Tough conference, not HORRIBLE stats, but I don't think he's done enough to make me want to jump up and down with joy either. I don't quite understand why coaches are suddenly enamored with this guy. Last year was his best year, by far, but it wasn't THAT impressive, either...

 

[Chaos Commish]

I don't quite understand why coaches are suddenly enamored with this guy.

Because they monitor ability more than stats. Cutler was in a horrid situation. I don't remember the exact details but the LSU game he is often criticized for was a game that had coaches and scouts buzzing about his potential. He threw 32 passes, completed just 11, he was sacked five times, hurried something like 25 times, and knocked down something like 16 or 17 times. It was brutal. Still late in the 3rd quarter he had managed to keep his team within three points of the #5 team in the country. He had two TD passes dropped that would have given Vandy the lead. After that the route was on in the 4th quarter.

They are enamored with his combination of intangibles and measureables. He is a very tough guy. He is a proven leader who has his best moments under pressure and when the team is down. He is a film junky and student of defenses. He's got good size and he's an excellent athlete-- an above average runner. He has a lightening fast release and a very strong arm. He throws nice touch passes in the pocket and on the move. He reads coverages quickly and leads covered receivers away from the defense. He's shown remarkable accuracy short, intermediate and deep (although it can be spotty). He's displayed the uncanny ability to zip the ball into very tight spaces in the blink of an eye. That's the good news.

He also tends to throw off of his back foot and he's flat footed in the pocket. He may have a tendency to bail on the pocket too fast (hard to blame him there). He'll take more risks than he has to (again, possibly hard to blame him for this). He has small(ish) hands and may have a fumbling issue. The gunslinger thing doesn't bother me. As much as he tried to make things happen, he was pretty solid with the ball in the air. He threw 462 passes and had 9 intercepted. As a point of reference, Matt Leinart, who everyone agrees is extraordinarily prudent with the ball, threw 431 passes (31 less) and had 8 interceptions (one less).

I'm impressed with him because the times I saw him his game "looked" like it translated perfectly to the NFL. He'd drop back, read, react, quick release, perfect delivery, laser to the perfect spot to a barely open player-- dropped. He did his part, but his team wasn't much help.

Anyway, that's the type of stuff that has some enamored with him. If it was about reading boxscores then Cody Hodges would be the first QB chosen. He won't be drafted.

 

[diesel7982]

At first, I thought "Well, Cutler played for the not-so-stellar Commodores, and they aren't exactly known for their offense." I then said to myself, "He played in the SEC, arguably the toughest conference in college, and he did well this year."

I then looked at his stats, and saw a 20/9 TD/INT line, and felt again that he's looking pretty decent.

But then I looked deeper into the stats, and I'm not too impressed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=115374

This past season, he had 20 TDs and 9 INTs. He had an easy schedule the first five games, racking up 7 TDs and 3 INTs. Then he got into the tough part of his schedule, having to play LSU, Georgia, South Carolina, Florida, and Tennessee (and Kentucky, too, but they aren't real great). He went 9 TDs and 6 INTs in those games, with a poor performance against LSU and Georgia (both at home), a so-so performance against South Carolina (decent yards, but 1 TD 1 INT only), and nice performance against Florida and Tennessee (both away). The Florida game leaves some hope, having gone 28-42, 361 yards passing, 4 TDs, 2 INTs, and a 160.77 rating. The

Tennessee one though, you can pretty much throw out, since they were pretty pathetic this year.

He had some good games, and did ok at least against the tough teams with a suspect offense, but you also can't overlook his past either.

2002 10/9

2003 18/13

2004 10/5

Tough conference, not HORRIBLE stats, but I don't think he's done enough to make me want to jump up and down with joy either. I don't quite understand why coaches are suddenly enamored with this guy. Last year was his best year, by far, but it wasn't THAT impressive, either...

If youre going to evaluate guys by stats, draft Cody Hodges.Stats tell relatively nothing about NFL ability, especially regarding a QB like Cutler who played on a team with MAYBE 1 other NFL caliber player.

 

[Bri]

How far away do you think the Fins are to having success? I thought Saban brought some excitement and a rookie QB struggling to learn(as they all do) might ruin that momentum. Curious what Fins fans think, if they'd welcome the rook or prefer a vet

 

[diesel7982]

How far away do you think the Fins are to having success? I thought Saban brought some excitement and a rookie QB struggling to learn(as they all do) might ruin that momentum. Curious what Fins fans think, if they'd welcome the rook or prefer a vet

Im in the minority, but Id actually like to see what Saban could do with Aaron Brooks.