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Notification from Daughters HS about 12/17 "school violence day" ... makes me sad (1 Viewer)

What would you like them to do? If it's a public school, their hands are pretty much tied. 
And here in lies the problem.  The pendulum swings too far, always in our society.  We all know who the bad kids are, yet we are afraid to do anything about it.......afraid of litigation, or being accused of discrimination, or whatever.......people want to try to explain "why" these kids do what the do......sure, that's a valid pursuit.....but in the meantime, these kids are allowed to run wild in schools.  Enough is enough.

 
And here in lies the problem.  The pendulum swings too far, always in our society.  We all know who the bad kids are, yet we are afraid to do anything about it.......afraid of litigation, or being accused of discrimination, or whatever.......people want to try to explain "why" these kids do what the do......sure, that's a valid pursuit.....but in the meantime, these kids are allowed to run wild in schools.  Enough is enough.
I don't think it's fair to say schools don't do anything about it. Obviously every district is different, but they're trying to help the kids, not just kick them all out to the streets. First of all, legally, you can't do that except in extreme cases.

And even if schools could do that, is that really what we want? Just give up on any kid with a discipline issue? And do what, throw them on the streets until they inevitably get thrown in prison? And who decides when to do that? Where's the line?

Teachers and administrators are overwhelmed as it is trying to play psychologist in addition to being an educator.

I don't think it would be fair or wise to start asking them to be judge and jury too.

 
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Start charging the parents for more stuff regarding threats and actual violence.  If you are raising a little ########, well....it's on you.

 
I don't think it's fair to say schools don't do anything about it. Obviously every district is different, but they're trying to help the kids, not just kick them all out to the streets. First of all, legally, you can't do that except in extreme cases.

And even if schools could do that, is that really what we want? Just give up on any kid with a discipline issue? And do what, throw them on the streets until they inevitably get thrown in prison? And who decides when to do that? Where's the line?

Teachers and administrators are overwhelmed as it is trying to play psychologist in addition to being an educator.

I don't think it would be fair or wise to start asking them to be judge and jury too.
From what I've seen, they don't do enough.  I'm not saying bring back corporal punishment, but bad kids have zero respect.....which isn't a new thing......this has been going since the beginning of time.  Now there is no fear of consequences.....Now they are emboldened.

I thought bullying was going to be in a better place then when I went to school.  It's worse!  

There should be a system in place to identify and track the bad kids and after a certain standard is met, they are gone!  Ship em off to some boot camp type thing.  The parents ain't doin it.  The schools can't do it......I'd rather pay for something like that with my taxes than let these ####heads run wild in our schools.

 
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From what I've seen, they don't do enough.  I'm not saying bring back corporal punishment, but bad kids have zero respect.....which isn't a new thing......this has been going since the beginning of time.  Now there is no fear of consequences.....Now they are emboldened.

I thought bullying was going to be in a better place then when I went to school.  It's worse!  

There should be a system in place to identify and track the bad kids and after a certain standard is met, they are gone!  Ship em off to some boot camp type thing.  The parents ain't doin it.  The schools can't do it......I'd rather pay for something like that with my taxes than let these ####heads run wild in our schools.


In my experience this is largely due to their parents. Whether it's completely uninvolved parents in lower income schools or even worse, the entitled parents in the more affluent areas that threaten legal action as soon as their child's misdeeds are called out. 

 
Yep this happened in NY too. I send my son to school today. He said half the school was out.
After school I asked my daughter if you knew what today was being talked about. She said she found out middle of the day.  She said a lot of kids were out

 
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After school I asked if you knew what today was being talked about. She said she found out middle of the day.  She said a lot of kids were out
My son knew yesterday but wasn't nervous so I sent him. Felt guilty when he texted me during recess that nobody was in school.

 
Not my kid's school, but another school here in the area (Salt Lake City) a kid was found with a gun and ammunition in his backpack at school today.  Surreal.

:shock:   :shock:   :shock:

 
To be fair, it's society to blame.  I send my daughter off to jr high daily to be bullied by somebody else's ####head kid.  Not much is really done.  ####head kid gets moved around to bully someone else.  Meanwhile, my kids self esteem takes a hit.  Wash, rinse, repeat......the problem at schools is two-fold.  1) Bad parents send bad kids to school to be ####heads to other kids.

2) Schools don't do enough to address said ####heads.
The reason we don't do enough is because of the parents. The bully's parents think we are mistreating their kid and complain, threaten to sue, etc. 

I agree though that it is parents/society. Also I am sorry to hear about your kid, that really sucks. I hate seeing kids being mean to other kids. It's the worst. 

 
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And the people wrongfully convicted?


This is a fair question

If we are talking about adult criminals who are already in our current penal system, then the best modification is, adding to the previous discussed Constitutional amendment, a provision where anyone found guilty of being complicit in suppressing evidence, jury tampering, bribery of court officials, extortion, etc, etc would suffer the same punishment.

As for those who slip through the cracks, I'd let the American people vote on it. And I have no doubt they'd vote in support of these new laws anyway. It has a logistical pathway and it simply sells. At this point I'm almost always routinely attacked and gaslit on this site and it should say something that no one can actually work up a functional legal argument against what I'm proposing.

Our legal system says you get the law, but you may or may not get what people perceive as "justice"  And our legal system acknowledges while it does it's best to avoid having people slip through the cracks, that any legislation will functionally end up that way for a small subset of individuals.

Present it to the people. Let them weigh out the pros and cons, including that some people might be wrongfully convicted, and let them vote. The Founders intended to have the people choose for themselves. Both the good and the bad together.

But I just don't see most Americans turning down a deal where they stop paying 75K a year to feed and house convicted rapists and instead have a chance to make the streets safer for their kids and possibly save that high school music program and some after school youth sports program.

As for, specifically, youth who are caught, tried and convicted of making and taking actions toward a credible threat for mass violence/mass shootings at a public and/or private school, then I'll simply say nearly all parents will likely side with "Better Safe Than Sorry"  If you want to highlight some hypothetical where whatever is perceived as a "threat" is overly sensitive or the pursuit is over zealous or some other factor,  the risk to our society and our civil order is too high to take any chances. Children in school is compulsory. Both parents and their children have limited power/self agency in the public school system. It's designed that way because there are compelling federal and state interests for civil order and maintaining a functional society. These children are future tax payers in the system. The government just can't let them be prey to be slaughtered.

But again, present it to the people and let them vote. Some may take your side of the equation, I have no doubt of that. But my observation and experience is that nearly all parents are close to zero tolerance when it comes to the safety of their children. They care little about how everyone feels and how it looks and care more about what works or not.

The more a society moves towards widespread scarcity and/or threat, the more it will tend to lean towards Conservative viewpoints, values and public policy. Heavily liberal viewpoints tend to be luxuries as a lagging indicator of a society of entitled abundance. More to point - When it comes to their kids, nearly all people don't care about the practical elements of fairness. If human society operated that way, we would have never survived this long.

The other issue is whenever public policy doesn't match the will and needs of the people at large, considering actual recorded human history, some other mechanism emerges. If we are talking things of commerce, usually a black market system is born. If we are talking social issues, usually radicals  and a counter culture are born. If we are talking public safety as it pertains to children, vigilantes are born.  You keep allowing a society where parents feel that their children are under constant threat and the government on all levels refuses to respond to their demands and fears, then people seen as threats usually start getting killed at that point. The kid who thinks it's funny to laugh it up and call in a threat of a mass shooter to get a day off from school might find that in the middle of the night, twenty guys in masks with automatic weapons will dump 10 thousand rounds into his house. Some form of civil order happens, it can be formal or informal but no one will tolerate open threats against their children forever.

We live in a society where the masses can vote and choose, so let them. Including the tradeoffs. Including if some are wrongfully convicted.

 
Wtf? I didn't know a thing about this until I clicked this thread about 1 hour ago.  

Is it time to nuke social media yet? 

 
This is a fair question

If we are talking about adult criminals who are already in our current penal system, then the best modification is, adding to the previous discussed Constitutional amendment, a provision where anyone found guilty of being complicit in suppressing evidence, jury tampering, bribery of court officials, extortion, etc, etc would suffer the same punishment.

As for those who slip through the cracks, I'd let the American people vote on it. And I have no doubt they'd vote in support of these new laws anyway. It has a logistical pathway and it simply sells. At this point I'm almost always routinely attacked and gaslit on this site and it should say something that no one can actually work up a functional legal argument against what I'm proposing.

Our legal system says you get the law, but you may or may not get what people perceive as "justice"  And our legal system acknowledges while it does it's best to avoid having people slip through the cracks, that any legislation will functionally end up that way for a small subset of individuals.

Present it to the people. Let them weigh out the pros and cons, including that some people might be wrongfully convicted, and let them vote. The Founders intended to have the people choose for themselves. Both the good and the bad together.

But I just don't see most Americans turning down a deal where they stop paying 75K a year to feed and house convicted rapists and instead have a chance to make the streets safer for their kids and possibly save that high school music program and some after school youth sports program.

As for, specifically, youth who are caught, tried and convicted of making and taking actions toward a credible threat for mass violence/mass shootings at a public and/or private school, then I'll simply say nearly all parents will likely side with "Better Safe Than Sorry"  If you want to highlight some hypothetical where whatever is perceived as a "threat" is overly sensitive or the pursuit is over zealous or some other factor,  the risk to our society and our civil order is too high to take any chances. Children in school is compulsory. Both parents and their children have limited power/self agency in the public school system. It's designed that way because there are compelling federal and state interests for civil order and maintaining a functional society. These children are future tax payers in the system. The government just can't let them be prey to be slaughtered.

But again, present it to the people and let them vote. Some may take your side of the equation, I have no doubt of that. But my observation and experience is that nearly all parents are close to zero tolerance when it comes to the safety of their children. They care little about how everyone feels and how it looks and care more about what works or not.

The more a society moves towards widespread scarcity and/or threat, the more it will tend to lean towards Conservative viewpoints, values and public policy. Heavily liberal viewpoints tend to be luxuries as a lagging indicator of a society of entitled abundance. More to point - When it comes to their kids, nearly all people don't care about the practical elements of fairness. If human society operated that way, we would have never survived this long.

The other issue is whenever public policy doesn't match the will and needs of the people at large, considering actual recorded human history, some other mechanism emerges. If we are talking things of commerce, usually a black market system is born. If we are talking social issues, usually radicals  and a counter culture are born. If we are talking public safety as it pertains to children, vigilantes are born.  You keep allowing a society where parents feel that their children are under constant threat and the government on all levels refuses to respond to their demands and fears, then people seen as threats usually start getting killed at that point. The kid who thinks it's funny to laugh it up and call in a threat of a mass shooter to get a day off from school might find that in the middle of the night, twenty guys in masks with automatic weapons will dump 10 thousand rounds into his house. Some form of civil order happens, it can be formal or informal but no one will tolerate open threats against their children forever.

We live in a society where the masses can vote and choose, so let them. Including the tradeoffs. Including if some are wrongfully convicted.
Present it to the masses to have them vote on it? I have, quite literally, never heard a worse idea in my life.

I have no doubt, too, that the majority would vote for it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The masses used to be in favor of slavery and lots of other wonderful things.

You can't honestly be in favor of that. I know most of your posts carry a high schtick factor, but you definitely put a lot of thought into them, and they are usually pretty interesting and thought-provoking.

But come on, we're going to go all American Idol with our legal system and kicking people out of the country? 

On second thought, that probably is the inevitable next step.

 
From what I've seen, they don't do enough.  I'm not saying bring back corporal punishment, but bad kids have zero respect.....which isn't a new thing......this has been going since the beginning of time.  Now there is no fear of consequences.....Now they are emboldened.

I thought bullying was going to be in a better place then when I went to school.  It's worse!  

There should be a system in place to identify and track the bad kids and after a certain standard is met, they are gone!  Ship em off to some boot camp type thing.  The parents ain't doin it.  The schools can't do it......I'd rather pay for something like that with my taxes than let these ####heads run wild in our schools.
Schools can't do what you think they should do because of our citizenry. There are fingers to point, but generally speaking it isn't at the school. The fault resides with us.

 
Present it to the masses to have them vote on it? I have, quite literally, never heard a worse idea in my life.

I have no doubt, too, that the majority would vote for it. That doesn't mean it's a good idea.

The masses used to be in favor of slavery and lots of other wonderful things.

You can't honestly be in favor of that. I know most of your posts carry a high schtick factor, but you definitely put a lot of thought into them, and they are usually pretty interesting and thought-provoking.

But come on, we're going to go all American Idol with our legal system and kicking people out of the country? 

On second thought, that probably is the inevitable next step.


Prisons create multiple problems.

First, they are basically "for profit" models that are generally corrupt and suck up massive tax dollars and essentially formulate slave labor in many places

Second, it's basically advanced training/college for criminals

Third, you have hardened career criminals there for life who have nothing better to do than scheme and create problems and risk lawsuits.

Shipping out the worst of them by stripping their citizenship fixes just about all these problems. No other country is going to willing accept hardened criminals into their society. So in international waters, they'll likely get strangled then tossed overboard. But again, they aren't US citizens anymore. Our prisons back home will be emptied so those people who are going into them can have a chance at some kind of rehabilitation. Also you'd have a place to put people like in this situation with the schools. Prisons and jails are overcrowded right now. There is no place to functionally put these kids. So they'll get into trouble and then eventually be released.

So yes, I am being perfectly serious. It's a solution that answers at least 6-7 major conflicts in our society all at once.

So I recognize this is not the PSF, but there was a pathway from Jacob Blake ( knife wielding career criminal and drug abuser who sexually assaults women) to all kinds of looting and rioting in response to his getting shot. Under my proposal, Blake is already gone. So that wipes out all the madness associated with him and also everything with Rittenhouse. Gone. Also in Waukesha, Darrell Brooks would be gone too. No George Floyd because he would be gone as well. It would likely also help community policing as you don't have cops battling it out with the same small group of hardened criminals all the time.

I've said it the Shark Pool, in the Free For All, in the PSF, everywhere - all of life is a resource management problem.

Career and lifelong criminals are not worth keep around as Americans in exchange for all the problems that would be solved if they were shipped out and removed. It works, it sells, it's practical, it's functional. And it would open up prison space to put in these kids who think it's hilarious to terrify everyone by saying they want to shoot up a school. Or they get shipped out too. All the same to me.

There are lots of homeless veterans on the streets now. People who served our country. People who fought for our country. People who just need some help. Instead of spending 75K a year to house a convicted rapist or deal with a high school kid who think it's all a big joke to frighten already battered parents, how about spending that money on helping the homeless and mentally ill?

It's not kicking "people" out. It's kicking out those who are hardened career criminals who have proven again and again they don't appreciate being a part of a civil society. They'll be given their day in court and when it's shown they are convicted and guilty, send them packing.

I don't understand this "schtick" nonsense. It's used to dismiss people with cheap ad hominem. I literally raise the level of discussion everywhere I go. What people don't like is how I post in a relentless visceral manner that operates like blunt force trauma that leaves them with no actual comeback for it. There's a level of efficient savagery at work that just makes a lot of people uncomfortable because they can smell their cognitive dissonance getting cooked. No one likes being called out and I routinely and casually call people out when they have it coming.

If anyone, no matter their age or situation, wants to threaten to shoot up a school, then my take is put them on a ship and send them packing forever.  OK, I'll add in a new provision to be sporting about it. Halfway across the ocean, we can let them out for an hour. Give them a choice to go back in their cells. Or they can try to swim back to America. If they can swim back, then all their crimes will be forgiven.

This doesn't have to be hard. Live a life where you work hard, keep to yourself, try to be a decent neighbor, go home and eat some frozen burritos and watch some Netflix. Maybe play some Counter Duty or talk to some randoms on SnapFace. How hard is that? How hard is it to just be an everyday person and not threaten to shoot up a school?

People want to play stupid games, then make sure they win stupid prizes.

If you create a society ( like this one) where playing stupid games has no real consequences, then they'll just keep testing to see how far they can push the next stupid game that they'll inflict on innocent people.

Virtue signaling does not create a functional society. It's just the shouts of outrage from the entitled and tone deaf who don't have an actual strategic plan to fix real practical problems. There is zero virtue in enabling threats to our society because no one wants to accept that sometimes they'll have to face how the sausage actually gets made in life.  I'll tell you what I told my godson when I was raising him - I don't care how you feel, I care if you win.

My plan gives America a bunch of wins. I want to permanently get rid of career criminals and people who want to shoot up schools so we can build more libraries and you apparently want to subvert the Founders' intent to allow the people at large to vote for what kind of society they want to live in and support. Which one of us sounds like the tyrant now?

 

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