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NYC assassination news thread - Please no politics (1 Viewer)

What does that have to do with shooting Gates or Swift in the back? I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll stop there.
Seems rather obvious how that is a relevant retort to your comment about Gutfeld and what he's capable of. The values of the talking heads on television aren't objective, whether it's Kimmel, Gutfeld, or whoever.
Jimmy Kimmel is a late night host and comedian, why are we bringing people that are clearly political talking heads into the thread as a comparison. If they work for FoxNews or MSNBC, they probably are political. Nobody is accusing democrats of supporting the CEO murder more than republicans.
 
I wouldn't be surprised to see that society is safer today than 20 or 50yrs ago, or honestly the opposite. I'd like to see murder per capita data, as an example datapoint

Here’s a good article/research study that shows what I’m talking about. Perception vs reality. An excerpt from the study (linked below)

How have crime rates in the U.S. changed over time?
Both the FBI and BJS data show dramatic declines in U.S. violent and property crime rates since the early 1990s, when crime spiked across much of the nation.
Using the FBI data, the violent crime rate fell 49% between 1993 and 2022, with large decreases in the rates of robbery (-74%), aggravated assault (-39%) and murder/nonnegligent manslaughter (-34%). It’s not possible to calculate the change in the rape rate during this period because the FBI revised its definition of the offense in 2013.

 
And lets be clear, he's a sex symbol because he killed a healthcare CEO.
I want to push back on this because he wouldn't be a sex symbol if he looked like the Uni-bomber. My sense is people are so focused on how good looking he is that they're ignoring the reality of what he did. That's not to say there aren't people making him a hero, but the killing isn't what makes him attractive to many.

ETA - Dude looks very similar to heart throb Aidan Turner.
 
Agreed. I would add that the historical antecedents here are not to Robin Hood but instead to the Weathermen, the KKK, and other violent movements that have sprung up over and over again throughout US history. We have seen this movie before in the 1870s, the 1930s, and the 1960s/70s. We have always been able to put down these movements in the past, but past performance is no guarantee of future results.
Historical antecedents to Luigi Mangione are the KKK? The KKK is nothing like Luigi Mangione, in any way whatsoever.

John Dillinger and Billy the Kid are much closer in scope, motivations, and actions. Both enjoyed widespread support from the populace at the time.
If you want to throw another one in there...how about the "Crime of the Century" in NYC in 1907. Thaw has his supporters for protecting "womanhood". To your point, I don't think its a surprise there's support nor do I think it really says anything about society besides highlighting the "of the day" issue that supporters "of the day" issue can attach themselves.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
We’re in the demographic with the lowest approval of Mangione. Do middle aged (and older) people have a better moral compass, or do we just relate better to the CEO?

ETA IIRC, Ivan suggested earlier his peers in academia were supportive of pro-Mangione sentiment. I’m not sure what mine in healthcare would say, but I’ve heard no one discussing it in the hospital.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
Other than the murder and rape part John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice guy. Good neighbor,quiet, friendly, was a birthday party clown.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
Other than the murder and rape part John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice guy. Good neighbor,quiet, friendly, was a birthday party clown.
I was mostly kidding.

But there is a difference that's hopefully obvious... Both murderers, but one did it for a cause, the other was a causeless nutjob sadist.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
Other than the murder and rape part John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice guy. Good neighbor,quiet, friendly, was a birthday party clown.
I was mostly kidding.

But there is a difference that's hopefully obvious... Both murderers, but one did it for a cause, the other was a causeless nutjob sadist.
I was certainly being hyperbolic, to make a point. But you’ve now thrown me with the “for a cause” point. The person/s who murder JFK or MLK “did it for a cause” too, so did the unibomber. So I’m not really sure there much of a difference honestly.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
Other than the murder and rape part John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice guy. Good neighbor,quiet, friendly, was a birthday party clown.
I was mostly kidding.

But there is a difference that's hopefully obvious... Both murderers, but one did it for a cause, the other was a causeless nutjob sadist.
I was certainly being hyperbolic, to make a point. But you’ve now thrown me with the “for a cause” point. The person/s who murder JFK or MLK “did it for a cause” too, so did the unibomber. So I’m not really sure there much of a difference honestly.
Those are similar to Luigi. I don't have to agree with the cause, but there's an underlying motive rather than just being nutso.

Ted Bundy, Gacy, etc not so much beyond nutso.

Maybe I'm not explaining this well.. seems super obviously different to me
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
Other than the murder and rape part John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice guy. Good neighbor,quiet, friendly, was a birthday party clown.
I was mostly kidding.

But there is a difference that's hopefully obvious... Both murderers, but one did it for a cause, the other was a causeless nutjob sadist.
People who bomb abortion clinics and assassinate doctors are doing it for a cause too. So did Dylan Roof. Most school shooters are motivated by something or another.

I never notice the same sort of moral confusion surrounding those sorts of things.
 
IDK I am surrounded by female nurses and doctors at work - 100% think Luigi is objectively good looking. It’s become a running joke - like water freezes at 32 degrees, the pope is Catholic, and Mangione is hawt.
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
Other than the murder and rape part John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice guy. Good neighbor,quiet, friendly, was a birthday party clown.
I was mostly kidding.

But there is a difference that's hopefully obvious... Both murderers, but one did it for a cause, the other was a causeless nutjob sadist.
I was certainly being hyperbolic, to make a point. But you’ve now thrown me with the “for a cause” point. The person/s who murder JFK or MLK “did it for a cause” too, so did the unibomber. So I’m not really sure there much of a difference honestly.
Those are similar to Luigi. I don't have to agree with the cause, but there's an underlying motive rather than just being nutso.

Ted Bundy, Gacy, etc not so much beyond nutso.

Maybe I'm not explaining this well.. seems super obviously different to me

I obviously get where you’re going with it I just don’t know if I generally agree. If you kill 6 people because you have a “cause” or because you have a “desire” in the end I think it’s very small degrees of differences in the crazy.
 
Also, everyone working in healthcare seems to hate insurance companies & also think their own (quite generous on a relative basis) coverage sucks.

No one is advocating violent crime as a solution. But there’s definitely an undercurrent of tacit approval. Get the same thing from my LEO friends. These folks are not anarchists or romanticizing a murderer.

A rich CEO - perception = reality, those 3 words say a lot - in a (perceived) evil industry doesn’t exactly engender a wave of sympathy. Especially when nearly everyone has had a negative outcome or unnecessarily difficult struggle dealing with health insurers.

(for the gazillionth time, nobody is rationalizing assassination as a tool of persuasion)
 
If each of us were to ask ten people in our lives if they had a favorable or unfavorable opinion of the killer, what would you guess the percentage "favorable" would be? Personally, I'd be very surprised if I knew someone who had a favorable opinion of this guy.
Other than the murder part, I like what I've read about the kid fine.
Other than the murder and rape part John Wayne Gacy seemed like a nice guy. Good neighbor,quiet, friendly, was a birthday party clown.
I was mostly kidding.

But there is a difference that's hopefully obvious... Both murderers, but one did it for a cause, the other was a causeless nutjob sadist.
People who bomb abortion clinics and assassinate doctors are doing it for a cause too. So did Dylan Roof. Most school shooters are motivated by something or another.

I never notice the same sort of moral confusion surrounding those sorts of things.
What am I missing? Who is confused?
 
That perp walk from the helicopter with Eric Adams walking along the whole time like they were shooting a scene out of Batman where the Joker gets arrested or something is one of the dumbest ****ing things I’ve seen in a long time. These stupid idiots, JFC.

Checking Twitter, I’m far from the first one to think this looked like a Christopher Nolan scene.
 
That perp walk from the helicopter with Eric Adams walking along the whole time like they were shooting a scene out of Batman where the Joker gets arrested or something is one of the dumbest ****ing things I’ve seen in a long time. These stupid idiots, JFC.

Checking Twitter, I’m far from the first one to think this looked like a Christopher Nolan scene.
I had the same reaction. I don't like perp walks in general, and this one was especially stupid.
 
Especially when nearly everyone has had a negative outcome or unnecessarily difficult struggle dealing with health insurers.
Much like the suggestion of societal deterioration into a murderous mob, I think insurance discontent is overstated.

While unnecessary hurdles are commonplace, most people still like their insurance, and haven’t experienced negative outcomes because of it. Poll on the topic

ETA I’m certainly no fan of insurers, or the business-oriented trajectory of healthcare, but have been completely satisfied with my coverage.
 
This guy has a "cause"? B.S. This guy assassinated someone over money. MONEY and nothing else. Anyone can get a medical procedure done. It just comes down to who pays for it. This A-hole is no better than a guy killing a person because he believes he was cheated in a poker game.
 
Especially when nearly everyone has had a negative outcome or unnecessarily difficult struggle dealing with health insurers.
Much like the suggestion of societal deterioration into a murderous mob, I think insurance discontent is overstated.

While unnecessary hurdles are commonplace, most people still like their insurance, and haven’t experienced negative outcomes because of it. Poll on the topic
I was an insurance agent and sold health policies, so I am definitely biased. Are there issues with insurance? Yep. Would everyone being covered by Medicare solve the issues? Heck no. My wife had serious health issues in 2017-2018 where the medical bills ran over two million dollars. She had $7,000 deductible per year, and the insurance company paid everything else... no issues. ($2,000,000 medical bills negotiated down to just over $1,000,000 by the insurance company).
 
I remember years ago when the Deborah LaFave story was in the news. When I'd see her on the TV my thoughts weren't "that poor kid", but rather, "she's hot." I'm sure if really pondered the story I'd be less focused on her looks and more focused on the abuse, but that was my auto-response in the moment.

While that doesn't explain the approval ratings with Luigi, it may explain the "he's hot" takes from the Kimmel staff.
 
This guy has a "cause"? B.S. This guy assassinated someone over money. MONEY and nothing else. Anyone can get a medical procedure done. It just comes down to who pays for it. This A-hole is no better than a guy killing a person because he believes he was cheated in a poker game.
We're not really discussing "better" though, right? This guy murdered somebody in cold blood as infinite others have murdered infinite others. He's equally bad with all of those.

But if this was over a poker game, there wouldn't be a national discussion about it. Nobody would care. They care because its over something more than that... Cause, belief, whatever. Still without justification... But something in this case that affects everybody in this country, and obviously enough people who have felt wronged by that industry.

And I'd say his cause is equivalent to somebody murdering an abortion Dr, animal testing lab tech, politician pushing for an agenda, etc that the person has strong enough beliefs against which to do something. Again... In the wrong, because they've murdered somebody. But its still a cause and it IS different than Johnny killing Joe over a pair of shoes...or cheating at poker.
 
Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States, accounting for 66.5% of all bankruptcies.

To citizens of every other industrialized nation on the planet, that is a foreign and baffling fact which they are wholly unfamiliar with.
Our healthcare system is gross, no doubt. But it’s multifaceted in its grossness, with insurers taking just one slice of the bloated pie.
 
Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States, accounting for 66.5% of all bankruptcies.

To citizens of every other industrialized nation on the planet, that is a foreign and baffling fact which they are wholly unfamiliar with.

I believe this is an old stat (pre-ACA). It’s now #2, with #1 being loss of income (which is loss of job which may then mean loss of health coverage and lead to medical debt, if the person doesn’t accept COBRA).
 
Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States, accounting for 66.5% of all bankruptcies.

To citizens of every other industrialized nation on the planet, that is a foreign and baffling fact which they are wholly unfamiliar with.

I believe this is an old stat (pre-ACA). It’s now #2, with #1 being loss of income (which is loss of job which may then mean loss of health coverage and lead to medical debt, if the person doesn’t accept COBRA).

The research I’ve found suggests medical debt is still in the 62-67% range of personal bankruptcies. Data has been pretty consistent from the inception of ACA through 2019.

Since COVID lockdown, there have been dramatic swings in the number of filings, but that seems to have more to do with legislation to keep the economy afloat during the pandemic. We don’t have anything newer than 2022, so it might take a minute to normalize.

There are some studies which have suggested ACA reduced filings. Want to take a guess on who funded that research?
 
Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States, accounting for 66.5% of all bankruptcies.

To citizens of every other industrialized nation on the planet, that is a foreign and baffling fact which they are wholly unfamiliar with.
The 66.5% figure is misleading.

It implies that medical debt is a sole factor causing bankruptcy. But in fact filers cite multiple factors and medical was just the most frequently listed.

Other factors include:

Unaffordable mortgage - 45%
Living beyond one's means - 44%
Providing help to friend/relatives - 28%
Student loans - 25%
Divorce or separation - 24%

CNBC article
 
Also, everyone working in healthcare seems to hate insurance companies & also think their own (quite generous on a relative basis) coverage sucks.

No one is advocating violent crime as a solution. But there’s definitely an undercurrent of tacit approval. Get the same thing from my LEO friends. These folks are not anarchists or romanticizing a murderer.

A rich CEO - perception = reality, those 3 words say a lot - in a (perceived) evil industry doesn’t exactly engender a wave of sympathy. Especially when nearly everyone has had a negative outcome or unnecessarily difficult struggle dealing with health insurers.

(for the gazillionth time, nobody is rationalizing assassination as a tool of persuasion)

Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States, accounting for 66.5% of all bankruptcies.

To citizens of every other industrialized nation on the planet, that is a foreign and baffling fact which they are wholly unfamiliar with.
The 66.5% figure is misleading.

It implies that medical debt is a sole factor causing bankruptcy. But in fact filers cite multiple factors and medical was just the most frequently listed.

Other factors include:

Unaffordable mortgage - 45%
Living beyond one's means - 44%
Providing help to friend/relatives - 28%
Student loans - 25%
Divorce or separation - 24%

CNBC article
Living beyond one's means - 44%

Appreciate the self awareness lol
 
Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the United States, accounting for 66.5% of all bankruptcies.

To citizens of every other industrialized nation on the planet, that is a foreign and baffling fact which they are wholly unfamiliar with.

Providing help to friend/relatives - 28%
Ouch, that one sucks. Help someone else out financially and end up bankrupt yourself.
 
Today I spoke to a high school journalism class (the teacher who invited me has a son in my son's Scout troop). Most of the questions were about my career -- I've been a journalist for more than 30 years and have written for a medical website/publication for the last 11.

But one student asked me what I thought of the shooting and how Mangione's rationale for doing it should be covered.

I said:

"Murder is unacceptable for any reason. Full stop. This is a tragedy. But it is appropriate to write about the issues the incident raises about health insurance in a respectful way. We don't cover the insurance industry, so we won't be writing about this, but it will be interesting to see whether the outlets that do can pull it off."
 
Luigi Mangione's lawyer wants to know why there are 2 separate sets of charges against him, and whether there's 1 investigation or 2 going on. Normally I'd pay no attention to that but she's apparently a very good lawyer: https://www.nydailynews.com/2024/12...monday-on-state-murder-and-terrorism-charges/

I hope that the government(s) doesn't (don't) overcharge or rush into prosecutions hastily while making mistakes that lessen the chances of convicting a murderer.
 
So he got rock star screams on SNL last night when Weekend Update switched the subject to him. Colin Jost commented on the reception. Another data point that Gen Z'ers have been educated and raised horribly.
 
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So he got rock star screams on SNL last night when Weekend Update switched the subject to him. Colin Jost commented on the reception. Another data point that Gen Zers have been educated and raised horribly.
I think millennials are the majority of SNL viewers
 
https://x.com/SaulStaniforth/status/1871215716248260984 (video clip at link)

Luigi Mangiones defence attorney says his right to a fair trial is being prejudiced by statements made by govt officials & politicians.

The attorney also references a 'perp walk' that was orchestrated by the police & politicians as a display for the media.
He may have a point with this, the perp walk with the mayor was actually insane
 
If the Boston Bomber didn't succeed with his fair trial end-around with all the publicity that trial received it's hard to imagine this loser will be successful
 

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