Obama gets trashed by his former CIA Director (1 Viewer)

[Widbil83]

Yikes.

He said Obama has a frustrating reticence to engage his opponents and rally support for his cause and too frequently relies on the logic of a law professor rather than the passion of a leader. Sometimes, he told USA Todays Susan Page, Obama avoids the battle, complains, and misses opportunities.

The USA Today interview was the first of what inevitably will be a series as he promotes his book, Worthy Fights: A Memoir of Leadership in War and Peace, which is sharply critical of Obamas handling of the troop withdrawal from Iraq, Syria and the advance of the Islamic State. I think were looking at kind of a 30-year war, he told the paper.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/10/06/leon-panetta-obama-has-lost-his-way-created-vacuum-for-islamic-state/

 

[Apple Jack]

Damn logic.

 

[Hilts]

That snippet sounds like a compliment more than a criticism.

 

[whoknew]

Damn logic.

Definitely want a President who relies on emotion over logic.

 

[timschochet]

If true it's an interesting critique. But it goes both ways. From what I've read, Bush's decision to go into Iraq had a lot to do with his passion and intuition rather than pure logic, and that was a disastrous decision. We've had Presidents in the past who were more logical and others who relied more on intuition: call it the Captain Kirk vs Mr. Spock approaches. There's no set rule on which is better.

 

[fatguyinalittlecoat]

That snippet sounds like a compliment more than a criticism.

Yeah, I don't really understand the "30 year war" quote. Is Panetta saying that we should have troops on the ground there for the next 30 years? Or is he saying that if only we had stayed a little longer we could have prevented what will be a 30 year war? Or something else?

 

[jonessed]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

 

[Fennis]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to take so long to abandon it.

fyp

 

[kentric]

If true it's an interesting critique. But it goes both ways. From what I've read, Bush's decision to go into Iraq had a lot to do with his passion and intuition rather than pure logic, and that was a disastrous decision. We've had Presidents in the past who were more logical and others who relied more on intuition: call it the Captain Kirk vs Mr. Spock approaches. There's no set rule on which is better.

Quick, off the top of your head, give me five presidents who have used the Red Shirt approach.

 

[FlapJacks]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to take so long to abandon it.

fyp

really?

This ISIS threat is real

are you suggesting we not do anything?

 

[Plorfu]

If true it's an interesting critique. But it goes both ways. From what I've read, Bush's decision to go into Iraq had a lot to do with his passion and intuition rather than pure logic, and that was a disastrous decision. We've had Presidents in the past who were more logical and others who relied more on intuition: call it the Captain Kirk vs Mr. Spock approaches. There's no set rule on which is better.

Quick, off the top of your head, give me five presidents who have used the Red Shirt approach.

Lincoln

Garfield

McKinley

JFK

Harrison

 

[timschochet]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

i think you're right, but Bush's decision was of so much greater consequence that it's almost obscene to put them in the same sentence. It's like saying, I think Ray Rice was wrong to punch his wife, and I think my daughter was wrong when she didn't clean her room.

 

[tommyboy]

Obama sucks, there will be plenty of knives in his back as his admin accelerates into irrelevancy.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

 

[Fennis]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to take so long to abandon it.

fyp

really?

This ISIS threat is real

are you suggesting we not do anything?

I'm stating we should have withdrawn from Iraq in 2004 at the latest.

 

[timschochet]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. The Iraqi government agreed to respect the civil rights of Sunnis and failed to do so, which is what precipitated the rise of ISIS. We should have stayed until al-Maliki lived up to his promises, and then we should have made our aid to that government contingent on him granting the Sunnis rights as he promised.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

Obama has a frustrating reticence to engage his opponents and rally support for his cause...

Obama avoids the battle, complains, and misses opportunities.

Same thing liberals have said about him for the last five years.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. .

Ok, thanks for your input Putin.

 

[jonessed]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

Panetta seems to believe that the administration didn't really want to stay and half-hearted the negotiations.

I expect we will know more with regard to how things went down behind the scenes in the future.

 

[Fennis]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. .

Ok, thanks for your input Putin.

sounded like the Chinese government's statements about the pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong.

 

[Hilts]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to take so long to abandon it.

fyp

really?This ISIS threat is real

are you suggesting we not do anything?

What do you mean by the threat is real? And what do you propose we do?

 

[Gary Coal Man]

Odd criticism by the CIA Director.

"Obama has a frustrating reticence to engage his opponents" - It might not be "engaging", but Obama seems to openly critique his opponents more than any President of my lifetime.

"Obama has a frustrating reticence to rally support for his cause" - Really? Many of Obama's speeches come across more as stump speeches to rally his base than as in-depth explanations for his actions.

"Obama too frequently relies on the logic" - Maybe I missed this or maybe I disagree on what the CIA Director considers logic.

"Obama often lacks the passion of a leader" - I'd argue that Obama's speeches show a lot of passion, and he seems passionate for his causes.

"Obama avoids the battle" - Seems like Obama often intentionally jibes and tweaks the GOP to create battle. Obama definitely battled for ACA.

"Obama complains" - Finally we agree.

 

[Osaurus]

Shocked he has a book coming out...such timeliness

 

[timschochet]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. .

Ok, thanks for your input Putin.

sounded like the Chinese government's statements about the pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong.

You guys are confusing elections with free democratic governments. That's what President Bush did as well. It's a big mistake.

In Iraq's election, all the Sunnis voted for the Sunnis. All the Shiites voted for the Shiites. There are more Shiites, so the Shiites won. They then proceeded to discriminate against the Sunnis. That's not a democratic government. It's a sham to pretend that it is.

Ever since Woodrow Wilson, our Presidents have naively believed that if people are allowed to have elections, it will bring about freedom and reform. But it's just not so, especially in this part of the world, where most of the "voters" are uninformed. The only thing elections decide in most of the Middle East is who is going to be the next dictator.

 

[tommyboy]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

this is false and you know it.

 

[tommyboy]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

Panetta seems to believe that the administration didn't really want to stay and half-hearted the negotiations.

I expect we will know more with regard to how things went down behind the scenes in the future.

that story is and has been out there for 2-3 years. this is old news, not new news.

 

[tommyboy]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

Panetta seems to believe that the administration didn't really want to stay and half-hearted the negotiations.

I expect we will know more with regard to how things went down behind the scenes in the future.

here's a nice wrap up from the former Iraqi Ambassodor under Obama

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2014/10/how-the-obama-administration-disowned-iraq-111565.html#.VDLXmE0tAdV

 

[Yankee23Fan]

If true it's an interesting critique. But it goes both ways. From what I've read, Bush's decision to go into Iraq had a lot to do with his passion and intuition rather than pure logic, and that was a disastrous decision. We've had Presidents in the past who were more logical and others who relied more on intuition: call it the Captain Kirk vs Mr. Spock approaches. There's no set rule on which is better.

Does it depend on the old version or the reboot? The old version, Kirk pulled all the good wimmins - even green ones. Spock was just there. The one time he was all horny in Star Trek III all he did was touch the girls face, and it wasn't Kirstey Alley (before she was fatter than Jabba the Hut with gas).

But the reboot? Jim is still pulling some prime cuts, and even managed a green one as well - but Spock has Zoe Saldana (which isn't fair in a way because old Kirk got to 2nd base with the old Uhura but she wasn't worth anything more than second base tops, even in the 70's)?

This is important to how I structure the rest of my posts on this topic.... Will answer yours.

 

[Yankee23Fan]

If true it's an interesting critique. But it goes both ways. From what I've read, Bush's decision to go into Iraq had a lot to do with his passion and intuition rather than pure logic, and that was a disastrous decision. We've had Presidents in the past who were more logical and others who relied more on intuition: call it the Captain Kirk vs Mr. Spock approaches. There's no set rule on which is better.

Quick, off the top of your head, give me five presidents who have used the Red Shirt approach.

Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Johnson Kennedy

 

[tommyGunZ]

Unbelievable that many think we should still have 100k troops occupying Iraq, costing us $10B+ per month.

And you guys call yourselves conservatives?

 

[tommyboy]

Unbelievable that many think we should still have 100k troops occupying Iraq, costing us $10B+ per month.

And you guys call yourselves conservatives?

who says we need 100K troops in Iraq? please provide links

 

[GrandpaRox]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

That's true but misleading. They revoked SOFA because Obama only agreed to leave 5000 troops. instead of the 24,000 his Generals wanted to stay. Had the Generals gotten their 24K SOFA would have not been revoked.

ISIS in Iraq was directly caused by Obama not listening to his Generals. The vacuum he left was filled by them.

I am telling you his foreign policy has been a total disaster. Wait until he is out of office, you will see a lot more of this.

 

[cstu]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

That's true but misleading. They revoked SOFA because Obama only agreed to leave 5000 troops. instead of the 24,000 his Generals wanted to stay. Had the Generals gotten their 24K SOFA would have not been revoked.

ISIS in Iraq was directly caused by Obama not listening to his Generals. The vacuum he left was filled by them.

I am telling you his foreign policy has been a total disaster. Wait until he is out of office, you will see a lot more of this.

ISIS would have still existed even with 24k troops.

 

[cstu]

ISIS has united countries to fight them.

Obama is a great foreign policy leader for orchestrating that.

 

[GrandpaRox]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

That's true but misleading. They revoked SOFA because Obama only agreed to leave 5000 troops. instead of the 24,000 his Generals wanted to stay. Had the Generals gotten their 24K SOFA would have not been revoked.

ISIS in Iraq was directly caused by Obama not listening to his Generals. The vacuum he left was filled by them.

I am telling you his foreign policy has been a total disaster. Wait until he is out of office, you will see a lot more of this.

ISIS would have still existed even with 24k troops.

Absolutely not true.

Also by Obama's refusal to back the moderate fighters in Syria he also helped ISIS in Syria. This is all on Obama by doing nothing. His indecision and lack of leadership will be looked back on as a total failure.

 

[cstu]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. .

Ok, thanks for your input Putin.

sounded like the Chinese government's statements about the pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong.

You guys are confusing elections with free democratic governments. That's what President Bush did as well. It's a big mistake.

In Iraq's election, all the Sunnis voted for the Sunnis. All the Shiites voted for the Shiites. There are more Shiites, so the Shiites won. They then proceeded to discriminate against the Sunnis. That's not a democratic government. It's a sham to pretend that it is.

Ever since Woodrow Wilson, our Presidents have naively believed that if people are allowed to have elections, it will bring about freedom and reform. But it's just not so, especially in this part of the world, where most of the "voters" are uninformed. The only thing elections decide in most of the Middle East is who is going to be the next dictator.

I agree, but I do have a long-term belief in democracy and the only way the ME will be successful is if they experiment with democracy until it works.

 

[NutterButter]

So who's buying the book?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

So who's buying the book?

Not I. Never liked Panetta anyway. I always hate these bite the hand that feeds you bio's when someone leaves an administration.

 

[Foosball God]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. .

Ok, thanks for your input Putin.

sounded like the Chinese government's statements about the pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong.

You guys are confusing elections with free democratic governments. That's what President Bush did as well. It's a big mistake.

In Iraq's election, all the Sunnis voted for the Sunnis. All the Shiites voted for the Shiites. There are more Shiites, so the Shiites won. They then proceeded to discriminate against the Sunnis. That's not a democratic government. It's a sham to pretend that it is.

Ever since Woodrow Wilson, our Presidents have naively believed that if people are allowed to have elections, it will bring about freedom and reform. But it's just not so, especially in this part of the world, where most of the "voters" are uninformed. The only thing elections decide in most of the Middle East is who is going to be the next dictator.

Sounds like democrats and republicans

 

[timschochet]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. .

Ok, thanks for your input Putin.

sounded like the Chinese government's statements about the pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong.

You guys are confusing elections with free democratic governments. That's what President Bush did as well. It's a big mistake.

In Iraq's election, all the Sunnis voted for the Sunnis. All the Shiites voted for the Shiites. There are more Shiites, so the Shiites won. They then proceeded to discriminate against the Sunnis. That's not a democratic government. It's a sham to pretend that it is.

Ever since Woodrow Wilson, our Presidents have naively believed that if people are allowed to have elections, it will bring about freedom and reform. But it's just not so, especially in this part of the world, where most of the "voters" are uninformed. The only thing elections decide in most of the Middle East is who is going to be the next dictator.

Sounds like democrats and republicans

It's not at all. Surprised anyone would think so.

 

[Foosball God]

I don't care how a President comes to a decision. The important thing is that the right decision is made.

Bush was wrong to invade Iraq and Obama was wrong to abandon it.

Iraqi government forced us out by revoking the SOFA. If an elected government wants us to leave, you think we should just say no?

First off, just because a government is elected that doesn't give it legitimacy. .

Ok, thanks for your input Putin.

sounded like the Chinese government's statements about the pro-Democracy movement in Hong Kong.

You guys are confusing elections with free democratic governments. That's what President Bush did as well. It's a big mistake.

In Iraq's election, all the Sunnis voted for the Sunnis. All the Shiites voted for the Shiites. There are more Shiites, so the Shiites won. They then proceeded to discriminate against the Sunnis. That's not a democratic government. It's a sham to pretend that it is.

Ever since Woodrow Wilson, our Presidents have naively believed that if people are allowed to have elections, it will bring about freedom and reform. But it's just not so, especially in this part of the world, where most of the "voters" are uninformed. The only thing elections decide in most of the Middle East is who is going to be the next dictator.

Sounds like democrats and republicans

It's not at all. Surprised anyone would think so.

You're looking at the end result and not the voting philosophy.