Obama on gay marriage (1 Viewer)

[Chase Stuart]

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianact...BarackObama.htm

Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060607-obama_statement_26/

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today released the following statement outlining the reasons for his vote against a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage:

"This debate is a thinly-veiled attempt to break a consensus that is quietly being forged in this country. A consensus between Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, Red States and Blue States, that it's time for new leadership in this country - leadership that will stop dividing us, stop disappointing us, and start addressing the problems facing most Americans.

"I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But I also agree with most Americans, including Vice President Cheney and over 2,000 religious leaders of all different beliefs, that decisions about marriage should be left to the states as they always have been."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs...00384/-1/caucus

Obama repeated his stand that he is against gay marriage, but for civil unions that offer the same benefits as traditional marriage.

He told about 150 people at the library that he couldn't endorse traditional marriage for gay and lesbian families.

"You want the word marriage and I believe that the issue of marriage has become so entangled - the word marriage has become so entangled with religion - that it makes more sense for me as president, with that authority, to talk about the civil rights that are conferred" with civil unions, Obama said. Individual denominations should make the decisions about what to recognize as a marriage, he said.

It looks like Obama believes personally that marriage should just be between a man and a woman, he believes politically that marriage isn't a federal issue, and he is in favor of civil unions. Not every state offers civil unions, but it looks like he's okay with that. So w/r/t civil unions, I think he personally believes they should be available, but politically think it's a states issue.Question: Do you really think Obama personally believes that marriage should just be between a man and a woman? I recognize this isn't an important issue for most, and I'm not calling Obama out for being disenguous. I just think politically, it would be bad for Hillary/Obama/McCain to be in favor of gay marriage. And what's more important, when picking a candidate, is what they believe politically, than personally (e.g., if Obama personally believes that the bible is a bunch of bunk, but wouldn't do anything about that as President, it's not a big deal). I get the sense that Obama publicly says he' against gay marriage to make him appear more conservative, and that's not his true belief.

Thoughts?

 

[IvanKaramazov]

It looks like Obama believes personally that marriage should just be between a man and a woman, he believes politically that marriage isn't a federal issue, and he is in favor of civil unions. Not every state offers civil unions, but it looks like he's okay with that. So w/r/t civil unions, I think he personally believes they should be available, but politically think it's a states issue.

This is basically my exact position on this, so I guess I hope he's telling the truth.

 

[lunar cranium]

double speak. the status quo will remain.

 

[PsychoMan]

IBKOYA

 

[randall146]

I don't believe that's his true belief, but I agree that's where he has to be now politically.

 

[Moe Green]

Now imagine the hell unleashed when Mike Huckabee says this.

 

[Chase Stuart]

It looks like Obama believes personally that marriage should just be between a man and a woman, he believes politically that marriage isn't a federal issue, and he is in favor of civil unions. Not every state offers civil unions, but it looks like he's okay with that. So w/r/t civil unions, I think he personally believes they should be available, but politically think it's a states issue.

This is basically my exact position on this, so I guess I hope he's telling the truth.

I don't think you need to hope for much, because I think this will remain his position throughout his campaign and any presidential terms he has. I just wonder if you got him in a room with no recording device and asked him what he *really* thought, what he'd say.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

seems to me that he is legitimately on the fence about it. His religious beliefs seem to be interfering with his desire to bring the country together and provide opportunities for everyone. Of course, whether or not it is an "opportunity" for gays to screw up their lives like million of hetero marriages, is up for debate. But, i feel like what he believes politically is of the most interest to voters. His job as POTUS is to act in the best interest of the country/citizens...regardless of personal beliefs.

 

[bostonfred]

I don't trust any politician to say what their deep heartfelt belief is. I barely even believe them when they talk about the policies they want to implement.

 

[RTB1]

I personally don't see why gays/lesbians cannot get married, but I also feel that their are much more serious matters upon which to judge a presidential candidate.

The gay/lesbian marriage scare of 2004 essentially handed GWB his second term. I would have preferred to disregard the issue at that time if it meant keeping GWB from re-election.

 

[phthalatemagic]

IBKOYA

 

[Mark Wimer]

The big elephant in the room on this issue is the entitlement to Federal benefits (like the survivor benefits relating to Social Security that a widow/widower receives when a spouse pre-deceases the other spouse). Also in play here are insurance benefits extended to spouses in traditional relationships (which insurance companies don't pay to live-in significant others, unless a particular employer (like the Walt Disney Corportation) has set up their internal coverage guidelines otherwise).

So, if civil unions are left up to the States and never decided to be equal to traditional marriage in the eyes of the Federal Government, which right now as a matter of federal law they are not, the U.S. Treasury is off the hook for survivor Social Security benefits to the surviving partners within a same-sex union, howsoever they are legislated/formulated/implemented at the state level.

Until I hear a candidate for national office (like POTUS, Senator, House of Representatives) explain how she/he would fund the additional $ strain on the Social Security system (among other federal programs) that recognizing civil unions as equivalent to marriage on the Federal level would entail (and all the other legislative battles/legal wrangling/lawsuits/countersuits that are sure to be over the horizon vis-a-vis insurance companies in such event (for medical and life insurance benefits)), I will consider their theoretical views as empty rhetoric with no policy position to back said rhetoric up.

My .02.

 

[Mark Wimer]

As for the question of whether I believe candidate Obama or not, my answer is I don't know if he is telling the truth or not, but that his position as currently formulated has no impact on public policy at the Federal level, so his position is not going to impact my opinion of him as a candidate for Federal office one way or another. It is as relevant to his fitness for POTUS as his like or dislike of, say, Dunkin Donuts, IMO.

 

[Jeremy]

I don't know what he really thinks. I'd admire him tremendously if he went out and said that discrimination and "separate but equal" shouldn't be tolerated in the Land of the Free and that he fully supported gay marriage. But that would be political suicide, and I understand why he wouldn't do that.

 

[timschochet]

Just for the record, McCain says he's personally against gay marriage, but voted against the constitutional amendment, which did not endear him to religious conservatives.

It is my belief, however, that in light of the economic and foreign policy issues this country is going through, any person, even a gay person, that will decide who to vote for based upon this issue is, in my opinion, behaving in an irresponsible manner.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I don't believe that's his true belief, but I agree that's where he has to be now politically.

What do you think his true belief is?

 

[Da Guru]

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianact...BarackObama.htm

Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060607-obama_statement_26/

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today released the following statement outlining the reasons for his vote against a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage:

"This debate is a thinly-veiled attempt to break a consensus that is quietly being forged in this country. A consensus between Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, Red States and Blue States, that it's time for new leadership in this country - leadership that will stop dividing us, stop disappointing us, and start addressing the problems facing most Americans.

"I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But I also agree with most Americans, including Vice President Cheney and over 2,000 religious leaders of all different beliefs, that decisions about marriage should be left to the states as they always have been."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs...00384/-1/caucus

Obama repeated his stand that he is against gay marriage, but for civil unions that offer the same benefits as traditional marriage.

He told about 150 people at the library that he couldn't endorse traditional marriage for gay and lesbian families.

"You want the word marriage and I believe that the issue of marriage has become so entangled - the word marriage has become so entangled with religion - that it makes more sense for me as president, with that authority, to talk about the civil rights that are conferred" with civil unions, Obama said. Individual denominations should make the decisions about what to recognize as a marriage, he said.

It looks like Obama believes personally that marriage should just be between a man and a woman, he believes politically that marriage isn't a federal issue, and he is in favor of civil unions. Not every state offers civil unions, but it looks like he's okay with that. So w/r/t civil unions, I think he personally believes they should be available, but politically think it's a states issue.Question: Do you really think Obama personally believes that marriage should just be between a man and a woman? I recognize this isn't an important issue for most, and I'm not calling Obama out for being disenguous. I just think politically, it would be bad for Hillary/Obama/McCain to be in favor of gay marriage. And what's more important, when picking a candidate, is what they believe politically, than personally (e.g., if Obama personally believes that the bible is a bunch of bunk, but wouldn't do anything about that as President, it's not a big deal). I get the sense that Obama publicly says he' against gay marriage to make him appear more conservative, and that's not his true belief.

Thoughts?

Basically Obama is against gay marriges, so be it.

 

[shining path]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

 

[Chase Stuart]

Just for the record, McCain says he's personally against gay marriage, but voted against the constitutional amendment, which did not endear him to religious conservatives.It is my belief, however, that in light of the economic and foreign policy issues this country is going through, any person, even a gay person, that will decide who to vote for based upon this issue is, in my opinion, behaving in an irresponsible manner.

So civil rights become less important to you when our economy is bad and we're fighting wars?

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I recognize that Presidential candidates say politically expedient things more often than they say true things.

But the thing that makes Obama's position on this issue politically expedient (namely, that a large number of people agree with it) also makes it not-so-far-fetched to think that Obama himself agrees with it. It's a relatively mainstream position, no? So what's the reason for thinking that he really does favor gay marriage, or that he really doesn't favor civil unions, or that he really does think the federal government should force its policy on the states . . . or whatever it is that people think he may really believe?

 

[Jeremy]

Just for the record, McCain says he's personally against gay marriage, but voted against the constitutional amendment, which did not endear him to religious conservatives.It is my belief, however, that in light of the economic and foreign policy issues this country is going through, any person, even a gay person, that will decide who to vote for based upon this issue is, in my opinion, behaving in an irresponsible manner.

Yeah, that's probably true. People have a funny way of deciding which issues are important to them. Around the last presidential election, I would frequently get behind a truck on my drive home with a bumper sticker that said "sportsman for Bush." With all going on in the world, he was afraid Kerry was going to take his gun?

 

[Kal El]

The simplest thing would be to remember that the marriage itself, at least as Christians view it, is a joining of two people in the eyes of God. His way is one man, and one woman. Now, if the government wants to legalize civil unions, I have no true problem with it, because something legal isn't necessarily as something moral. One needs a license to be wed in the eyes of the law anyway.

I can agree with Obama on this point. Perhaps he's going to genuinely attempt to work to bring the nation together, but he'll have to change some of the modes behind some of his ideas before I can get on board.

 

[HellToupee]

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianact...BarackObama.htm

Barack Obama and Gay Marriage/ Civil Unions: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Barack Obama did vote against a Federal Marriage Amendment and opposed the Defense of Marriage Act in 1996.

He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.

http://obama.senate.gov/press/060607-obama_statement_26/

WASHINGTON - U.S. Senator Barack Obama (D-IL) today released the following statement outlining the reasons for his vote against a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage:

"This debate is a thinly-veiled attempt to break a consensus that is quietly being forged in this country. A consensus between Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, Red States and Blue States, that it's time for new leadership in this country - leadership that will stop dividing us, stop disappointing us, and start addressing the problems facing most Americans.

"I personally believe that marriage is between a man and a woman. But I also agree with most Americans, including Vice President Cheney and over 2,000 religious leaders of all different beliefs, that decisions about marriage should be left to the states as they always have been."

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs...00384/-1/caucus

Obama repeated his stand that he is against gay marriage, but for civil unions that offer the same benefits as traditional marriage.

He told about 150 people at the library that he couldn't endorse traditional marriage for gay and lesbian families.

"You want the word marriage and I believe that the issue of marriage has become so entangled - the word marriage has become so entangled with religion - that it makes more sense for me as president, with that authority, to talk about the civil rights that are conferred" with civil unions, Obama said. Individual denominations should make the decisions about what to recognize as a marriage, he said.

It looks like Obama believes personally that marriage should just be between a man and a woman, he believes politically that marriage isn't a federal issue, and he is in favor of civil unions. Not every state offers civil unions, but it looks like he's okay with that. So w/r/t civil unions, I think he personally believes they should be available, but politically think it's a states issue.Thoughts?

I'm really starting to like Barack with him being anti NAFTA & his favoring civil unions over marriage

 

[commisholio]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

bigot?black?bunghole?booty?

 

[Moe Green]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

'Bama?

 

[phthalatemagic]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

botulism?

 

[shining path]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

bigot?

No discussion of gay marriage at the FFA is complete without it. (Guilty myself).

 

[phthalatemagic]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

bigot?

No discussion of gay marriage at the FFA is complete without it. (Guilty myself).

Than maybe the real 'b' word is bKoya, with the b being silent?

 

[commisholio]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

bigot?

No discussion of gay marriage at the FFA is complete without it. (Guilty myself).

My money was on "bunghole." Hard to have a discussion of gay marriage without that one coming up.

 

[RBM]

Wonder where all the nutty libs are, that would usually come attack a comment like this:

"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

 

[munga30]

It looks like Obama believes personally that marriage should just be between a man and a woman, he believes politically that marriage isn't a federal issue, and he is in favor of civil unions. Not every state offers civil unions, but it looks like he's okay with that. So w/r/t civil unions, I think he personally believes they should be available, but politically think it's a states issue.

Question: Do you really think Obama personally believes that marriage should just be between a man and a woman? I recognize this isn't an important issue for most, and I'm not calling Obama out for being disenguous. I just think politically, it would be bad for Hillary/Obama/McCain to be in favor of gay marriage. And what's more important, when picking a candidate, is what they believe politically, than personally (e.g., if Obama personally believes that the bible is a bunch of bunk, but wouldn't do anything about that as President, it's not a big deal). I get the sense that Obama publicly says he' against gay marriage to make him appear more conservative, and that's not his true belief.

Thoughts?

I couldn't say unless you refine the question a little. Does Obama believe religiousMarriage should only be between a man and a woman? Yes, I think he could really believe that because it's consistent with his declared religious sect. Is that inconsistent with Obama beliving that licensingMarriage could be between man/man, woman/woman, or woman/man? No, I don't think so. To dive into a slightly different angle of this, do you think Obama believes that his proposed "let the states choose" can pass equal protection scrutiny? Can he propose this scheme and thwart himself by his choice of Supreme Court nominee(s)?

 

[Brutis]

Wonder where all the nutty libs are, that would usually come attack a comment like this:

"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

I guess there liberal savior is a bigot. Oh the irony

 

[RBM]

Wonder where all the nutty libs are, that would usually come attack a comment like this:

"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

I guess there liberal savior is a bigot. Oh the irony

Think they are all huddling right now thinking of how to spin this?Great stuff

 

[commisholio]

On substance, I don't have any problem with this position or why he adopted it. IMO, the government should get out of the marriage business entirely and give a civil union to any 2 consenting adults who want one. If you want to have a church wedding, you have to find a church that's willing to give you a ceremony.

Do you neanderthals (Peens, RBM) object to civil unions for teh gays, too?

 

[RBM]

Do you neanderthals (Peens, RBM) object to civil unions for teh gays, too?

Never heard a straight guy use that neanderthal term.Anyway, I agree with Hussein's take on the issue.

 

[commisholio]

Do you neanderthals (Peens, RBM) object to civil unions for teh gays, too?

Never heard a straight guy use that neanderthal term.Anyway, I agree with Hussein's take on the issue.

Well, you have now.

 

[urbanhack]

Now imagine the hell unleashed when Mike Huckabee says this.

or this...

“that it is Arkansas public policy to prohibit sodomy to protect the traditional family structure.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 1/23/1997]"If you ask for survivor benefits to be paid to a same-sex survivor, I think we have a right to say no to that.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 7/3/2003]“homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk.”– "It is now difficult to keep track of the vast array of publicly endorsed and institutionally supported aberrations — from homosexuality and pedophilia to sadomasochism and necrophilia..”

 

[urbanhack]

Wonder where all the nutty libs are, that would usually come attack a comment like this:

"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

I guess there liberal savior is a bigot. Oh the irony

Think they are all huddling right now thinking of how to spin this?Great stuff

No spin here. I don't agree with him on this issue, but it's not a deal breaker for me, nor is it an issue that he will push to the forefront like the right did in 2004.

 

[NCCommish]

As I have said not so liberal. This is one of the things I disagree with Obama on. I am for gay marriage. I believe it is discriminatory not to allow any 2 consenting adult who want to marry to do so. With that said it isn't a deal breaker for me.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

bigot?

No discussion of gay marriage at the FFA is complete without it. (Guilty myself).

Thanks shining path. I've always hated that about the FFA. Guy says what Obama says and he's called a bigot. I think that's lame. Although many that normally are quick with the bigot calling will be mousy on this one as they like the guy. That's lame too. But good for Obama.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

I don't believe that's his true belief, but I agree that's where he has to be now politically.

What do you think his true belief is?

I would ask this too, MT. What would lead randall to think that what Obama said isn't really his belief Seems like a reasonable position to me.In fact, I'd say Obama's position on this is somewhat of a microcosm of what is appealing about him. He takes a volatile issue, states his position which seems heartfelt. And the position seems thoughtful and reasonable while still acknowledging other viewpoints. And he can take that position without insulting the other side. He essentially calms a volatile situation. Cool.J

 

[Joe Bryant]

Now imagine the hell unleashed when Mike Huckabee says this.

or this...

“that it is Arkansas public policy to prohibit sodomy to protect the traditional family structure.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 1/23/1997]"If you ask for survivor benefits to be paid to a same-sex survivor, I think we have a right to say no to that.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 7/3/2003]“homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk.”– In his 1998 book, Kids Who Kill, Huckabee compared homosexuality to necrophilia, decrying “publicly endorsed and institutionally supported aberrations–from homosexuality and pedophilia to sadomasochism and necrophilia.”

Can you describe exactly how he "compared homosexuality to necrophilia"? Obviously there is more than the sentence you quoted above. J

 

[urbanhack]

Now imagine the hell unleashed when Mike Huckabee says this.

or this...

“that it is Arkansas public policy to prohibit sodomy to protect the traditional family structure.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 1/23/1997]"If you ask for survivor benefits to be paid to a same-sex survivor, I think we have a right to say no to that.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 7/3/2003]“homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk.”– "It is now difficult to keep track of the vast array of publicly endorsed and institutionally supported aberrations — from homosexuality and pedophilia to sadomasochism and necrophilia..”

Can you describe exactly how he "compared homosexuality to necrophilia"? Obviously there is more than the sentence you quoted above. J

That wasn't my quote and I'm not saying he is directly comparing it, but using homosexuality in the same sentence with pedophilia and necrophilia is a bit out line. At least in my book it is.

 

[NCCommish]

Countdown to deployment of the "b" word.

bigot?

No discussion of gay marriage at the FFA is complete without it. (Guilty myself).

Thanks shining path. I've always hated that about the FFA. Guy says what Obama says and he's called a bigot. I think that's lame. Although many that normally are quick with the bigot calling will be mousy on this one as they like the guy. That's lame too. But good for Obama.J

It's a bigoted view no matter who says it IMO. That includes Obama. As I mentioned above I consider it discriminatory and completely outdated. However no candidate is perfect and I know Obama won't support a constitutional amendment. Unfortunately I think thats the best I can get right now. I hope for much better sooner rather than later.

 

[GRIDIRON ASSASSIN]

What is the Chicago Daily Tribune? Link please...

It sounds like he's OK with it for legal purposes - but not in a church.

 

[Joe Bryant]

Now imagine the hell unleashed when Mike Huckabee says this.

or this...

“that it is Arkansas public policy to prohibit sodomy to protect the traditional family structure.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 1/23/1997]"If you ask for survivor benefits to be paid to a same-sex survivor, I think we have a right to say no to that.” [Arkansas Democrat-Gazette, 7/3/2003]“homosexuality is an aberrant, unnatural, and sinful lifestyle, and we now know it can pose a dangerous public health risk.”– In his 1998 book, Kids Who Kill, Huckabee compared homosexuality to necrophilia, decrying “publicly endorsed and institutionally supported aberrations–from homosexuality and pedophilia to sadomasochism and necrophilia.”

Can you describe exactly how he "compared homosexuality to necrophilia"? Obviously there is more than the sentence you quoted above. J

That wasn't my quote and I'm not saying he is directly comparing it, but using homosexuality in the same sentence with pedophilia and necrophilia is a bit out line. At least in my book it is.

So you use the quote to make your point but don't really believe it?J

 

[Bonzai]

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs...00384/-1/caucus

Obama repeated his stand that he is against gay marriage, but for civil unions that offer the same benefits as traditional marriage.

He told about 150 people at the library that he couldn't endorse traditional marriage for gay and lesbian families.

"You want the word marriage and I believe that the issue of marriage has become so entangled - the word marriage has become so entangled with religion - that it makes more sense for me as president, with that authority, to talk about the civil rights that are conferred" with civil unions, Obama said. Individual denominations should make the decisions about what to recognize as a marriage, he said.

This is disappointing, no doubt about it. Glad to see him at least staying above the douchebaggery common in those that oppose gay marriage, as he is for civil unions that offer the same benefits as traditional marriage. What's disappointing is that he's failing to take leadership and make this a federal issue.

 

[redman]

This isn't something that you can make a states issue because of comity/full faith and credit. If even one state sanctions gay marriage or civil unions, then people getting "married" or "unioned" there must have their rights observed in their home state. It's an issue that refers to an ongoing relationship and it's not like something like abortion which, as a single act, can be successfully banned within the borders of a given state even if a neighboring state sanctions it.

 

[Orange Crush]

Wonder where all the nutty libs are, that would usually come attack a comment like this:

"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Here I am. I'm very disappointed in this language. Policies views should be based on finding pragmatic solutions to problems, but can certainly have moral arguments to back them up. But saying "my religious beliefs inform me that X is bad and Y is good" is not a sufficient basis.Until the GLBT community is allowed to enter into (and use the word) marriage with the one person that they want to (not just a person of the opposite sex), they will continue to be discriminated against and held as second class citizens in this country.At least what Obama is advocating is a step in the right direction, in calling for states to be free to determine their policies themselves. Imagine that - an issue where Democrats (and McCain) are pushing for federalism while Republicans are arguing against federalism.

 

[cstu]

The big elephant in the room on this issue is the entitlement to Federal benefits (like the survivor benefits relating to Social Security that a widow/widower receives when a spouse pre-deceases the other spouse). Also in play here are insurance benefits extended to spouses in traditional relationships (which insurance companies don't pay to live-in significant others, unless a particular employer (like the Walt Disney Corportation) has set up their internal coverage guidelines otherwise).

So, if civil unions are left up to the States and never decided to be equal to traditional marriage in the eyes of the Federal Government, which right now as a matter of federal law they are not, the U.S. Treasury is off the hook for survivor Social Security benefits to the surviving partners within a same-sex union, howsoever they are legislated/formulated/implemented at the state level.

Until I hear a candidate for national office (like POTUS, Senator, House of Representatives) explain how she/he would fund the additional $ strain on the Social Security system (among other federal programs) that recognizing civil unions as equivalent to marriage on the Federal level would entail (and all the other legislative battles/legal wrangling/lawsuits/countersuits that are sure to be over the horizon vis-a-vis insurance companies in such event (for medical and life insurance benefits)), I will consider their theoretical views as empty rhetoric with no policy position to back said rhetoric up.

My .02.

Civil unions should be allowed but they should not be entitled to Federal benefits.