Older *demented* parents dating/getting remarried (1 Viewer)

[Terminalxylem]

Is there any laws in Hawaii that say people with dementia that file for a marriage license requires a pre-nup????

I seriously doubt it.

The issue is the severity of the dementia. Currently, he is fairly functional, and while impulsive, not an imminent risk for harming himself or others. I’m not sure his decisional capacity is bad enough to prohibit getting married, and I can’t even find specific state laws stipulating mental fitness as a criteria for marriage.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Is there any laws in Hawaii that say people with dementia that file for a marriage license requires a pre-nup????

I seriously doubt it.

The issue is the severity of the dementia. Currently, he is fairly functional, and while impulsive, not an imminent risk for harming himself or others. I’m not sure his decisional capacity is bad enough to prohibit getting married, and I can’t even find specific state laws stipulating mental fitness as a criteria for marriage.

I would be just as concerned that his capacity prevents him from assigning POA or other things of that sort.

If you can take some sort of leave for elder care, I'd do it now and not wait the ten days or whatever.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Is there any laws in Hawaii that say people with dementia that file for a marriage license requires a pre-nup????

I seriously doubt it.

The issue is the severity of the dementia. Currently, he is fairly functional, and while impulsive, not an imminent risk for harming himself or others. I’m not sure his decisional capacity is bad enough to prohibit getting married, and I can’t even find specific state laws stipulating mental fitness as a criteria for marriage.

I would be just as concerned that his capacity prevents him from assigning POA or other things of that sort.

If you can take some sort of leave for elder care, I'd do it now and not wait the ten days or whatever.

Good advice. I asked my wife to arrange follow up with our lawyer ASAP, and can cover her at work.

And I fully realize everything he does now may be called into question. But technically, he only failed a dementia screening test. I’d really like the POA to be clarified before he sees the geriatrician, who presumably will confirm the diagnosis, and weigh in on decisional capacity.

But reading more, it seems like only a court order can prevent him from getting married, demented or not.

 

[Dezbelief]

I wouldn't be surprised if this lady is currently married. Hire a private eye?

 

[Terminalxylem]

I wouldn't be surprised if this lady is currently married. Hire a private eye?

Our family law friend looked through the public records, which yielded the divorce trial proceeding mentioned upthread. I suppose a PI could uncover other stuff, but tbh, between his impaired cognition and her manipulating him, I don’t think we’re likely to find anything to dissuade him.

Although she didn’t provide many details, fwiw, she was honest about her two prior marriages.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

I wouldn't be surprised if this lady is currently married. Hire a private eye?

Our family law friend looked through the public records, which yielded the divorce trial proceeding mentioned upthread. I suppose a PI could uncover other stuff, but tbh, between his impaired cognition and her manipulating him, I don’t think we’re likely to find anything to dissuade him.

Although she didn’t provide many details, fwiw, she was honest about her two prior marriages.

If she isn't actually divorced, that would prevent a marriage license from being issued.

This sounds nightmarish. Ugh.

 

[Terminalxylem]

I wouldn't be surprised if this lady is currently married. Hire a private eye?

Our family law friend looked through the public records, which yielded the divorce trial proceeding mentioned upthread. I suppose a PI could uncover other stuff, but tbh, between his impaired cognition and her manipulating him, I don’t think we’re likely to find anything to dissuade him.

Although she didn’t provide many details, fwiw, she was honest about her two prior marriages.

If she isn't actually divorced, that would prevent a marriage license from being issued.

This sounds nightmarish. Ugh.

I understand - my family law friend located the divorce documents from her most recent marriage. I guess if she never got divorced from her first husband, or had more than two prior husbands, that scenario mught cone into play.

Seems like a long shot though.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

UPDATE:

Last week, FIL saw his primary physician, who performed a SLUMS evaluation for dementia. He scored 17/30. Less than 20 is demented. Follow up pending with geriatrics.

Yesterday, FIL went with his fiancee to the Department of Health, originally to obtain records of her prior marriage and divorce. When they got there, she refused to obtain her paperwork, unless he provided his marriage/divorce records, which he requested. Unclear if she requested any old records; instead, she convinced him to apply for a marriage license. That said, he claims he still needs her records, to petition the church to get her prior marriage annulled, consistent with his Catholic beliefs. Nonetheless, he tentatively announced wedding plans mid-March.

Meanwhile, my wife's friend, the family lawyer, looked up his fiancee's background. She has been divorced twice, most recently in HI about 20 years ago. She was ~20 years younger than her 2nd husband, and they were only married for a year or so. During that time, she reportedly demanded ownership of his home, and we he refused, kicked him out of the house. Subsequently, he lived outside, on his property in a tent and a cave(!). He also filed a TRO. She requested alimony, which was denied, and she refused to disclose her finances at the divorce hearing.

As we coincidentally had an appointment for our own estate planning, we asked our lawyer to review his trust and power of attorney documents. She said they are outdated, but was particularly concerned the healthcare/financial power of attorney only listed my deceased mother-in-law. So now we're trying to convince him to review the documents, and add my wife to the POA, at the minimum. My wife also had her name added to both his bank accounts today.

We just had lunch, telling him what we had found out about his fiancee, but he wasn't interested. He insists he "knows her" well enough to proceed with the wedding, once her prior divorce is Catholic cleansed.

What's the next move?

Dude, this situation sucks. I feel for you and your wife. GL.

 

[-fish-]

POA may not be enough here. My thought would be to petition for a conservatorship, and all of his assets should be transferred to a trust, with her as trustee. I don't do trusts/estate planning, but in this position she should consult with an appropriate attorney and take actions necessary to protect his assets and take over decision-making.

 

[Terminalxylem]

So FIL has worked with my wife, disclosing his finances, and adding her on his banking, in joint accounts. He also admitted to having “over a million dollars” in stocks, that he implored my wife not to tell his fiancée about.

But he is adamant he wants to get married, and doesn’t want to slow the courtship pace. And he seems content to overlook the church’s requirement her prior marriage/divorce get annulled. Urology appointment completed as well.

Tomorrow we arranged an urgent meeting with our lawyer, to review his estate, including a trust, living will and power of attorney documents.

After eating lunch with my wife today, he asked her to confirm the meeting’s time:

W: Three o’clock. We’ll pick you up. Want to go to lunch beforehand?
FIL: Uhhh. No thanks. I’ll be busy. But I’ll be ready at 2:15.
W: What are you doing?
FIL: I’d rather not say…

He typically loves going to eat with us, at a restaurant we are regulars. We quickly stack the menus, and order “the usual”, though our meal still takes 2 hours, minimum.

Me, after a several second uncomfortable pause/silence: Are you getting married tomorrow?
FIL, chuckling nervously: I better not say.
Wife: What do you MEAN?!?!

We talk a little, longer, wife nearly in tears. Ultimately, he won’t own up to his plans, even though the writing is on the wall.

On the drive home, my wife breaks down, effectively giving up on changing his trajectory. She rejects talking to the church, and we still haven’t heard from geriatrics.

We gave the lawyer a heads up, that she may be meeting with an elderly newlywed. Not sure how we’ll handle a surprise guest at our meeting, though I’m planning on objecting, if she shows up.

What a mess.

 

[ProstheticRGK]

Toddlers with Agency is the name of my punk band, we do punk polka covers.

It’s also how I internally refer to every ETOH/meth withdrawal patient that gets admitted to ICU.

Seemed a propos here. Sorry, brother. That is rough.

 

[Zow]

You're absolutely doing this correctly by speaking with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I could give you input on this situation and how it may play out in my jurisdiction, but I'm frankly hesitant to do so because it may be misleading. I suspect the applicable laws to your situation is very jurisdiction specific, and the situation itself is very fact--intensive.

Again, you're doing it correctly here by meeting with the lawyer. If I were the lawyer, I would very much appreciate any medical documentation of his current neurological condition as it relates to capacity. This would perhaps include any results of cognitive testing.

ETA: it looks like you're meeting with an estate planning attorney. With that in mind, she may not be up to speed on the validity of marriage issue and may refer you to a family law attorney to discuss.

 

[arrow1]

whoa

 

[Terminalxylem]

You're absolutely doing this correctly by speaking with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I could give you input on this situation and how it may play out in my jurisdiction, but I'm frankly hesitant to do so because it may be misleading. I suspect the applicable laws to your situation is very jurisdiction specific, and the situation itself is very fact--intensive.

Again, you're doing it correctly here by meeting with the lawyer. If I were the lawyer, I would very much appreciate any medical documentation of his current neurological condition as it relates to capacity. This would perhaps include any results of cognitive testing.

ETA: it looks like you're meeting with an estate planning attorney. With that in mind, she may not be up to speed on the validity of marriage issue and may refer you to a family law attorney to discuss.

Yeah, wife’s best friend is in family law.

After we revealed our concerns based on divorce records, FIL initially acted like he didn’t care “she’s changed.” But yesterday, he unexpectedly asked for her number. He now wants to meet with my wife’s friend this weekend, after the nuptials later today.

Sigh.

 

[Zow]

You're absolutely doing this correctly by speaking with a family law attorney in your jurisdiction. I could give you input on this situation and how it may play out in my jurisdiction, but I'm frankly hesitant to do so because it may be misleading. I suspect the applicable laws to your situation is very jurisdiction specific, and the situation itself is very fact--intensive.

Again, you're doing it correctly here by meeting with the lawyer. If I were the lawyer, I would very much appreciate any medical documentation of his current neurological condition as it relates to capacity. This would perhaps include any results of cognitive testing.

ETA: it looks like you're meeting with an estate planning attorney. With that in mind, she may not be up to speed on the validity of marriage issue and may refer you to a family law attorney to discuss.

Yeah, wife’s best friend is in family law.

After we revealed our concerns based on divorce records, FIL initially acted like he didn’t care “she’s changed.” But yesterday, he unexpectedly asked for her number. He now wants to meet with my wife’s friend this weekend, after the nuptials later today.

Sigh.

Oy. I'm sure your wife's best friend will tell you that the bold may be problematic - though it's not unfixable.

Well, best of luck to you and your family. This is a very challenging situation.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

So FIL has worked with my wife, disclosing his finances, and adding her on his banking, in joint accounts. He also admitted to having “over a million dollars” in stocks, that he implored my wife not to tell his fiancée about.

But he is adamant he wants to get married, and doesn’t want to slow the courtship pace. And he seems content to overlook the church’s requirement her prior marriage/divorce get annulled. Urology appointment completed as well.

Tomorrow we arranged an urgent meeting with our lawyer, to review his estate, including a trust, living will and power of attorney documents.

After eating lunch with my wife today, he asked her to confirm the meeting’s time:

W: Three o’clock. We’ll pick you up. Want to go to lunch beforehand?
FIL: Uhhh. No thanks. I’ll be busy. But I’ll be ready at 2:15.
W: What are you doing?
FIL: I’d rather not say…

He typically loves going to eat with us, at a restaurant we are regulars. We quickly stack the menus, and order “the usual”, though our meal still takes 2 hours, minimum.

Me, after a several second uncomfortable pause/silence: Are you getting married tomorrow?
FIL, chuckling nervously: I better not say.
Wife: What do you MEAN?!?!

We talk a little, longer, wife nearly in tears. Ultimately, he won’t own up to his plans, even though the writing is on the wall.

On the drive home, my wife breaks down, effectively giving up on changing his trajectory. She rejects talking to the church, and we still haven’t heard from geriatrics.

We gave the lawyer a heads up, that she may be meeting with an elderly newlywed. Not sure how we’ll handle a surprise guest at our meeting, though I’m planning on objecting, if she shows up.

What a mess.

That’s awful.

This really seems like a money grab. So you and more importantly your wife, his only kid, are not invited to whatever “ceremony” is being performed? Do his religious beliefs stop him from having relations with the gold digger? I’m trying to understand the rush on his part to get this done.

Why can’t they just go steady? Sorry for the joke

 

[Terminalxylem]

So FIL has worked with my wife, disclosing his finances, and adding her on his banking, in joint accounts. He also admitted to having “over a million dollars” in stocks, that he implored my wife not to tell his fiancée about.

But he is adamant he wants to get married, and doesn’t want to slow the courtship pace. And he seems content to overlook the church’s requirement her prior marriage/divorce get annulled. Urology appointment completed as well.

Tomorrow we arranged an urgent meeting with our lawyer, to review his estate, including a trust, living will and power of attorney documents.

After eating lunch with my wife today, he asked her to confirm the meeting’s time:

W: Three o’clock. We’ll pick you up. Want to go to lunch beforehand?
FIL: Uhhh. No thanks. I’ll be busy. But I’ll be ready at 2:15.
W: What are you doing?
FIL: I’d rather not say…

He typically loves going to eat with us, at a restaurant we are regulars. We quickly stack the menus, and order “the usual”, though our meal still takes 2 hours, minimum.

Me, after a several second uncomfortable pause/silence: Are you getting married tomorrow?
FIL, chuckling nervously: I better not say.
Wife: What do you MEAN?!?!

We talk a little, longer, wife nearly in tears. Ultimately, he won’t own up to his plans, even though the writing is on the wall.

On the drive home, my wife breaks down, effectively giving up on changing his trajectory. She rejects talking to the church, and we still haven’t heard from geriatrics.

We gave the lawyer a heads up, that she may be meeting with an elderly newlywed. Not sure how we’ll handle a surprise guest at our meeting, though I’m planning on objecting, if she shows up.

What a mess.

That’s awful.

This really seems like a money grab. So you and more importantly your wife, his only kid, are not invited to whatever “ceremony” is being performed? Do his religious beliefs stop him from having relations with the gold digger? I’m trying to understand the rush on his part to get this done.

Why can’t they just go steady? Sorry for the joke

I don’t think he’s acting rationally. He’s always been impulsive, but this is next level, surely compounded by his waning faculties. On top of that, he’s letting consummation drive the timeline, as premarital sex is not kosher is his worldview.

And no, we aren’t invited to the ceremony.

 

[Dezbelief]

And no, we aren’t invited to the ceremony

Major red flag.

With a million bucks of stocks on the line, I repeat I would hire a private investigator to dig into this woman's past. I feel there is more to her story than she's letting on.

 

[The Z Machine]

And no, we aren’t invited to the ceremony

That's some major ******** right there.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

So FIL has worked with my wife, disclosing his finances, and adding her on his banking, in joint accounts. He also admitted to having “over a million dollars” in stocks, that he implored my wife not to tell his fiancée about.

But he is adamant he wants to get married, and doesn’t want to slow the courtship pace. And he seems content to overlook the church’s requirement her prior marriage/divorce get annulled. Urology appointment completed as well.

Tomorrow we arranged an urgent meeting with our lawyer, to review his estate, including a trust, living will and power of attorney documents.

After eating lunch with my wife today, he asked her to confirm the meeting’s time:

W: Three o’clock. We’ll pick you up. Want to go to lunch beforehand?
FIL: Uhhh. No thanks. I’ll be busy. But I’ll be ready at 2:15.
W: What are you doing?
FIL: I’d rather not say…

He typically loves going to eat with us, at a restaurant we are regulars. We quickly stack the menus, and order “the usual”, though our meal still takes 2 hours, minimum.

Me, after a several second uncomfortable pause/silence: Are you getting married tomorrow?
FIL, chuckling nervously: I better not say.
Wife: What do you MEAN?!?!

We talk a little, longer, wife nearly in tears. Ultimately, he won’t own up to his plans, even though the writing is on the wall.

On the drive home, my wife breaks down, effectively giving up on changing his trajectory. She rejects talking to the church, and we still haven’t heard from geriatrics.

We gave the lawyer a heads up, that she may be meeting with an elderly newlywed. Not sure how we’ll handle a surprise guest at our meeting, though I’m planning on objecting, if she shows up.

What a mess.

That’s awful.

This really seems like a money grab. So you and more importantly your wife, his only kid, are not invited to whatever “ceremony” is being performed? Do his religious beliefs stop him from having relations with the gold digger? I’m trying to understand the rush on his part to get this done.

Why can’t they just go steady? Sorry for the joke

I don’t think he’s acting rationally. He’s always been impulsive, but this is next level, surely compounded by his waning faculties. On top of that, he’s letting consummation drive the timeline, as premarital sex is not kosher is his worldview.

And no, we aren’t invited to the ceremony.

Can you track him and raise an objection with the state certified officient? I have no idea what else to suggest.

This whole thing must be maddening.

 

[Terminalxylem]

It’s official:

I have a new step mother-in-law

 

[ProstheticRGK]

So FIL has worked with my wife, disclosing his finances, and adding her on his banking, in joint accounts. He also admitted to having “over a million dollars” in stocks, that he implored my wife not to tell his fiancée about.

But he is adamant he wants to get married, and doesn’t want to slow the courtship pace. And he seems content to overlook the church’s requirement her prior marriage/divorce get annulled. Urology appointment completed as well.

Tomorrow we arranged an urgent meeting with our lawyer, to review his estate, including a trust, living will and power of attorney documents.

After eating lunch with my wife today, he asked her to confirm the meeting’s time:

W: Three o’clock. We’ll pick you up. Want to go to lunch beforehand?
FIL: Uhhh. No thanks. I’ll be busy. But I’ll be ready at 2:15.
W: What are you doing?
FIL: I’d rather not say…

He typically loves going to eat with us, at a restaurant we are regulars. We quickly stack the menus, and order “the usual”, though our meal still takes 2 hours, minimum.

Me, after a several second uncomfortable pause/silence: Are you getting married tomorrow?
FIL, chuckling nervously: I better not say.
Wife: What do you MEAN?!?!

We talk a little, longer, wife nearly in tears. Ultimately, he won’t own up to his plans, even though the writing is on the wall.

On the drive home, my wife breaks down, effectively giving up on changing his trajectory. She rejects talking to the church, and we still haven’t heard from geriatrics.

We gave the lawyer a heads up, that she may be meeting with an elderly newlywed. Not sure how we’ll handle a surprise guest at our meeting, though I’m planning on objecting, if she shows up.

What a mess.

That’s awful.

This really seems like a money grab. So you and more importantly your wife, his only kid, are not invited to whatever “ceremony” is being performed? Do his religious beliefs stop him from having relations with the gold digger? I’m trying to understand the rush on his part to get this done.

Why can’t they just go steady? Sorry for the joke

I don’t think he’s acting rationally. He’s always been impulsive, but this is next level, surely compounded by his waning faculties. On top of that, he’s letting consummation drive the timeline, as premarital sex is not kosher is his worldview.

And no, we aren’t invited to the ceremony.

But, he’s not getting married in the Church, right? It couldn’t be, if she wan’t willing to provide proof of divorce and go thru the Chirch’s anullment process. So, it’s not even a union consummated by the sacrament of marriage, in the eyes of the church.

Last ditch effort- buy him an escort?

EDIT: Oops, too late, apparently. He already bought his own.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

It’s official:

I have a new step mother-in-law

Ooof. That sucks

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Your wife must be beside herself. This is beyond the ability of chocolates to fix. I'm so sorry.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Actually, is it official? Might want to check with the State.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Actually, is it official? Might want to check with the State.

Applied and received (presumably) a marriage license, and had a ceremony with an officiant (he showed us pictures).

Since it was just friday, not sure if the records are able to be confirmed on-line.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Actually, is it official? Might want to check with the State.

Applied and received (presumably) a marriage license, and had a ceremony with an officiant (he showed us pictures).

Since it was just friday, not sure if the records are able to be confirmed on-line.

It generally takes a few days to show up in the system.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Your wife must be beside herself. This is beyond the ability of chocolates to fix. I'm so sorry.

Yes, she’s cried a lot, and we’ve had arguments over this, as her style is far less assertive than mine.

But on the bright side, we were able to update/review his trust and POA, with no mention of his blushing bride, on anything.

What remains for the immediate future is ensuring my wife is the beneficiary for his stocks, or, ideally, adding her to his brokerage account.

We also were contemplating freezing his credit.

And big picture, still waiting on geriatrics eval.

 

[rockaction]

Oh man, I have nothing but words of sympathy for you, Terminal. I hope you and your wife are able to resolve this in a way that is amenable to everybody and doesn't leave you estranged from your FIL. Best to you.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Oh man, I have nothing but words of sympathy for you, Terminal. I hope you and your wife are able to resolve this in a way that is amenable to everybody and doesn't leave you estranged from your FIL. Best to you.

We’re on good terms atm. And on the plus side, I’ve never seen him happier.

We all know the honeymoon period doesn’t last forever, even in “normal” marriages, but it makes me pause. On some level, almost all relationships are a little transactional - sex for security, stereotypically.

So as long as she doesn’t quickly hurt him, or leave him destitute, there’s a philosophical question: how much is transient happiness worth to an octogenarian, whose mind is failing?

 

[Dezbelief]

Oh man, I have nothing but words of sympathy for you, Terminal. I hope you and your wife are able to resolve this in a way that is amenable to everybody and doesn't leave you estranged from your FIL. Best to you.

We’re on good terms atm. And on the plus side, I’ve never seen him happier.

We all know the honeymoon period doesn’t last forever, even in “normal” marriages, but it makes me pause. On some level, almost all relationships are a little transactional - sex for security, stereotypically.

So as long as she doesn’t quickly hurt him, or leave him destitute, there’s a philosophical question: how much is transient happiness worth to an octogenarian, whose mind is failing?

Happiness is worth a place to lay your head? I've heard of situations where the surviving spouse is allowed to live out the remainder of their years in the marital home even if they have no/partial ownership.


Good luck and best wishes to all parties involved.


Edit- I saw news blurb saying those little blue pills might be good for preventing dementia.

 

[rockaction]

So as long as she doesn’t quickly hurt him, or leave him destitute, there’s a philosophical question: how much is transient happiness worth to an octogenarian, whose mind is failing?

Yeah, the moments get more and more precious. I wonder if he doesn't know that fully and thus rushed to get married not just for sex but because deep down he knows this is his last go-round with his faculties as he knows them.

I hope that this turns out okay for him—and that his new wife finds it within herself to be decent, upright, and humane to him when trying times inevitably come along—and I wish him, your wife, and you the best.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Oh man, I have nothing but words of sympathy for you, Terminal. I hope you and your wife are able to resolve this in a way that is amenable to everybody and doesn't leave you estranged from your FIL. Best to you.

We’re on good terms atm. And on the plus side, I’ve never seen him happier.

We all know the honeymoon period doesn’t last forever, even in “normal” marriages, but it makes me pause. On some level, almost all relationships are a little transactional - sex for security, stereotypically.

So as long as she doesn’t quickly hurt him, or leave him destitute, there’s a philosophical question: how much is transient happiness worth to an octogenarian, whose mind is failing?

Happiness is worth a place to lay your head? I've heard of situations where the surviving spouse is allowed to live out the remainder of their years in the marital home even if they have no/partial ownership.


Good luck and best wishes to all parties involved.


Edit- I saw news blurb saying those little blue pills might be good for preventing dementia.

Fortunately, my wife and I are doing fine financially, and have/had no aspirations to any sort of inheritance.

To be clear, I don't like this situation at all, but there may at least be a silver lining. We just have to do what we can to maximize the chances whatever good he (we?) derives from it outweighs the bad.

 

[Terminalxylem]

So as long as she doesn’t quickly hurt him, or leave him destitute, there’s a philosophical question: how much is transient happiness worth to an octogenarian, whose mind is failing?

Yeah, the moments get more and more precious. I wonder if he doesn't know that fully and thus rushed to get married not just for sex but because deep down he knows this is his last go-round with his faculties as he knows them.

I hope that this turns out okay for him—and that his new wife finds it within herself to be decent, upright, and humane to him when trying times inevitably come along—and I wish him, your wife, and you the best.

This is one of the reasons I reject glib assertions rationalizing unhealthy behavior, among middle aged people not wanting to live beyond x years, in trade for a vice, or three.

On the surface, FIL seems just as excited for companionship now, as ever. Although his decisions are recklessly impulsive, they aren't completely baseless.

 

[rockaction]

This is one of the reasons I reject glib assertions rationalizing unhealthy behavior, among middle aged people not wanting to live beyond x years, in trade for a vice, or three.

I've noticed you always wind up on the other side of the discussion when those assertions are made and that you fight the conscientious and thoughtful fight. I don't think you'd likely have noticed, but I haven't been one to make those kind of assertions about trading future days for current vices in quite a long time. I know darn well that if my life stays reasonably free of unbearable duress that I'm going to fight for as long as I can, and I will try to keep my time from coming for as long as possible.

But enough about me. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts tonight. Godspeed to your FIL in his new social endeavors.

 

[Terminalxylem]

This is one of the reasons I reject glib assertions rationalizing unhealthy behavior, among middle aged people not wanting to live beyond x years, in trade for a vice, or three.

I've noticed you always wind up on the other side of the discussion when those assertions are made and that you fight the conscientious and thoughtful fight. I don't think you'd likely have noticed, but I haven't been one to make those kind of assertions about trading future days for current vices in quite a long time. I know darn well that if my life stays reasonably free of unbearable duress that I'm going to fight for as long as I can, and I will try to keep my time from coming for as long as possible.

But enough about me. I will keep you and your family in my thoughts tonight. Godspeed to your FIL in his new social endeavors.

Sorry if I came off as accusatory; that wasn’t my intent. I’m not judging you, or anyone in particular.

And I know I often appear sanctimonious wrt health choices, but this situation has me thinking more and more about end-of-life, and quality thereof. It’s about a lot more than beef and booze - social connections probably top the list of things we shouldn’t sacrifice, now or later.

I’m reminded of a passage from a short story/movie I love, Into the Wild. While starving, the protagonist, who rejected everything society had to offer, scrawls this into his journal:

NATURE/PURITY, he printed in bold characters at the top of the page.

"Oh, how one wishes sometimes to escape from the meaningless dullness of human eloquence, from all those sublime phrases, to take refuge in nature, apparently so inarticulate, or in the wordlessness of long, grinding labor, of sound sleep, of true music, or of a human understanding rendered speechless by emotion!"

McCandless starred and bracketed the paragraph and circled "refuge in nature" in black ink. Next to "And so it turned out that only a life similar to the life of those around us, merging with it without a ripple, is genuine life, and that an unshared happiness is not happiness ... And this was most vexing of all," he noted, "HAPPINESS ONLY REAL WHEN SHARED.”

Anyway, thanks for the kind words.

 

[stbugs]

Wow, I know your FIL has diminished mental capacity but damn what a selfish *******. He clearly knows enough to know that he’s potentially screwing over his daughter. The fact that he didn’t want his new wife to know about the stocks means he knows she’s a gold digger but he doesn’t care since he wants the fun to happen. I wouldn’t be surprised if she agreed with his faith deciding no premarital sex.

My wife and sisters almost went through this after her mother passed and he dad rekindled a relationship with an ex from before his marriage. The idea of marriage came up and luckily her dad agreed that he wasn’t going to do that. He had less money (had a pension) that your FIL had and it was split 3 ways but his girlfriend clearly had a design on his money. He took her on trips and spent time with her daughter and grand kids which was tough on my wife and sisters because he wasn’t really putting in as much effort with his real grandkids. He developed cancer and got pretty bad and wouldn’t you know it, the girlfriend spent less time visiting and he lived with us for months before going home to hospice care. She didn’t even show up to the funeral but since she was an ex girlfriend (decades before) she did know people that came to the funeral. The excuse was that she wasn’t feeling well. So glad he never married her because damn, you ask to get married and then don’t stick around after he gets sick and don’t even go to the funeral?

I know the feeling and I’m glad my FIL didn’t go through with the marriage as he knew his daughters would not have forgiven him because it was clear the girlfriend suggesting marriage clearly wanted his money. Your wife has got to be besides herself and while you say you don’t have designs on an inheritance, she deserves it, not some clear gold digger. I’ve seen it also happen to one of my wife’s best friend and that was multiple millions, and while the new wife did get a nice amount when the dad passed, the bulk of the large estate was protected and passed on to his kids. Still some in fighting amongst siblings but I think the dad at least know to get it sorted financially before he passed.

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Part of the problem with this situation is that it opens the door to elder abuse. You and your wife's continued involvement is his major protection here.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Wow, I know your FIL has diminished mental capacity but damn what a selfish *******. He clearly knows enough to know that he’s potentially screwing over his daughter. The fact that he didn’t want his new wife to know about the stocks means he knows she’s a gold digger but he doesn’t care since he wants the fun to happen. I wouldn’t be surprised if she agreed with his faith deciding no premarital sex.

My wife and sisters almost went through this after her mother passed and he dad rekindled a relationship with an ex from before his marriage. The idea of marriage came up and luckily her dad agreed that he wasn’t going to do that. He had less money (had a pension) that your FIL had and it was split 3 ways but his girlfriend clearly had a design on his money. He took her on trips and spent time with her daughter and grand kids which was tough on my wife and sisters because he wasn’t really putting in as much effort with his real grandkids. He developed cancer and got pretty bad and wouldn’t you know it, the girlfriend spent less time visiting and he lived with us for months before going home to hospice care. She didn’t even show up to the funeral but since she was an ex girlfriend (decades before) she did know people that came to the funeral. The excuse was that she wasn’t feeling well. So glad he never married her because damn, you ask to get married and then don’t stick around after he gets sick and don’t even go to the funeral?

I know the feeling and I’m glad my FIL didn’t go through with the marriage as he knew his daughters would not have forgiven him because it was clear the girlfriend suggesting marriage clearly wanted his money. Your wife has got to be besides herself and while you say you don’t have designs on an inheritance, she deserves it, not some clear gold digger. I’ve seen it also happen to one of my wife’s best friend and that was multiple millions, and while the new wife did get a nice amount when the dad passed, the bulk of the large estate was protected and passed on to his kids. Still some in fighting amongst siblings but I think the dad at least know to get it sorted financially before he passed.

Sorry you went through that with your FIL. Terrible his gf abandoned him in the end, and didn’t have the decency even to attend his funeral.

My wife isn’t really mad at her dad, as much as heartbroken. Not only has she been reminded of her mom’s passing, but she’s really worried this will negatively impact their relationship. Since MIL died, they’ve gotten closer, and I know she cherishes time with him.

I don’t think my wife, or any child really, is entitled to an inheritance. It’s FIL’s money, and he can use it as he chooses. I just hope he doesn’t burn through it, and end up broke and alone.

 

[Terminalxylem]

Part of the problem with this situation is that it opens the door to elder abuse. You and your wife's continued involvement is his major protection here.

Yes. Avoiding this is our priority.

 

[rockaction]

Sorry if I came off as accusatory; that wasn’t my intent. I’m not judging you, or anyone in particular.

And I know I often appear sanctimonious wrt health choices, but this situation has me thinking more and more about end-of-life, and quality thereof. It’s about a lot more than beef and booze - social connections probably top the list of things we shouldn’t sacrifice, now or later.

Dear God, no. You certainly didn't come off as accusatory. I was sort of low-key bragging on myself because I haven't had a cigarette in probably seven years or so, and back when I was a heavy smoker I would rationalize the trade-off of end of life days for current easiness and pleasure. I don't rationalize it that way anymore, and haven't for about a decade now.

 

[stbugs]

Wow, I know your FIL has diminished mental capacity but damn what a selfish *******. He clearly knows enough to know that he’s potentially screwing over his daughter. The fact that he didn’t want his new wife to know about the stocks means he knows she’s a gold digger but he doesn’t care since he wants the fun to happen. I wouldn’t be surprised if she agreed with his faith deciding no premarital sex.

My wife and sisters almost went through this after her mother passed and he dad rekindled a relationship with an ex from before his marriage. The idea of marriage came up and luckily her dad agreed that he wasn’t going to do that. He had less money (had a pension) that your FIL had and it was split 3 ways but his girlfriend clearly had a design on his money. He took her on trips and spent time with her daughter and grand kids which was tough on my wife and sisters because he wasn’t really putting in as much effort with his real grandkids. He developed cancer and got pretty bad and wouldn’t you know it, the girlfriend spent less time visiting and he lived with us for months before going home to hospice care. She didn’t even show up to the funeral but since she was an ex girlfriend (decades before) she did know people that came to the funeral. The excuse was that she wasn’t feeling well. So glad he never married her because damn, you ask to get married and then don’t stick around after he gets sick and don’t even go to the funeral?

I know the feeling and I’m glad my FIL didn’t go through with the marriage as he knew his daughters would not have forgiven him because it was clear the girlfriend suggesting marriage clearly wanted his money. Your wife has got to be besides herself and while you say you don’t have designs on an inheritance, she deserves it, not some clear gold digger. I’ve seen it also happen to one of my wife’s best friend and that was multiple millions, and while the new wife did get a nice amount when the dad passed, the bulk of the large estate was protected and passed on to his kids. Still some in fighting amongst siblings but I think the dad at least know to get it sorted financially before he passed.

Sorry you went through that with your FIL. Terrible his gf abandoned him in the end, and didn’t have the decency even to attend his funeral.

My wife isn’t really mad at her dad, as much as heartbroken. Not only has she been reminded of her mom’s passing, but she’s really worried this will negatively impact their relationship. Since MIL died, they’ve gotten closer, and I know she cherishes time with him.

I don’t think my wife, or any child really, is entitled to an inheritance. It’s FIL’s money, and he can use it as he chooses. I just hope he doesn’t burn through it, and end up broke and alone.

I understand and your wife is right to worry. I saw it first hand how my FIL’s gf pulled him away from his daughters. Luckily, he was of sound mind so when he got cancer and the gf realized marriage was off the table, they got him back more. He was never gone but as an objective, as much as I could be, observer it was easy for me to see what was happening.

Entitled isn’t the right word, but I think deserve fits. Your FIL can use the money as he sees fit, but a caring father IMHO would want that “unspent” money to go to his daughter and grandkid(s). I wouldn’t begrudge him blowing it on around the world vacations even with the now wife as company but from everything you’ve said and his “hiding” of the stocks from her, she’s clearly got eyes on a prize. I’m saying your wife deserves the unspent money. Donate it to charity if you don’t want it. After having seen women attempt to do the money grab multiple times, I’m just rooting for the new wife to not get the windfall and likely not treat your FIL well, which is your concern.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

@Terminalxylem it has been a few weeks since this all went down with the marriage. Have you and the wife had much interaction with the new wife. If so, are suspicions being confirmed or are things looking hopeful?

 

[Terminalxylem]

@Terminalxylem it has been a few weeks since this all went down with the marriage. Have you and the wife had much interaction with the new wife. If so, are suspicions being confirmed or are things looking hopeful?

We have met with her three times, all in group settings. So not really conducive to deep conversation.

So far I know she likes picking fruit from neighbor’s trees (with permission), has reclaimed a discarded, termite-ridden cabinet from another neighbor’s curb, and isn’t shy about summoning waitstaff.

Oh yeah, she and my FIL dance three times a week, several hours per session. They like the jitterbug.

Not exactly a lot of data.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

@Terminalxylem it has been a few weeks since this all went down with the marriage. Have you and the wife had much interaction with the new wife. If so, are suspicions being confirmed or are things looking hopeful?

We have met with her three times, all in group settings. So not really conducive to deep conversation.

So far I know she likes picking fruit from neighbor’s trees (with permission), has reclaimed a discarded, termite-ridden cabinet from another neighbor’s curb, and isn’t shy about summoning waitstaff.

Oh yeah, she and my FIL dance three times a week, several hours per session. They like the jitterbug.

Not exactly a lot of data.

Several hour dance sessions….hmmmmm

1) Help him get/stay in shape?

Or

2) Cause a sudden heart attack?

 

[Terminalxylem]

@Terminalxylem it has been a few weeks since this all went down with the marriage. Have you and the wife had much interaction with the new wife. If so, are suspicions being confirmed or are things looking hopeful?

We have met with her three times, all in group settings. So not really conducive to deep conversation.

So far I know she likes picking fruit from neighbor’s trees (with permission), has reclaimed a discarded, termite-ridden cabinet from another neighbor’s curb, and isn’t shy about summoning waitstaff.

Oh yeah, she and my FIL dance three times a week, several hours per session. They like the jitterbug.

Not exactly a lot of data.

Several hour dance sessions….hmmmmm

1) Help him get/stay in shape?

Or

2) Cause a sudden heart attack?

They met dancing, so I just assume she likes it. And I doubt septuagenarians actually dance enough in those house to provoke a widowmaker.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

@Terminalxylem it has been a few weeks since this all went down with the marriage. Have you and the wife had much interaction with the new wife. If so, are suspicions being confirmed or are things looking hopeful?

We have met with her three times, all in group settings. So not really conducive to deep conversation.

So far I know she likes picking fruit from neighbor’s trees (with permission), has reclaimed a discarded, termite-ridden cabinet from another neighbor’s curb, and isn’t shy about summoning waitstaff.

Oh yeah, she and my FIL dance three times a week, several hours per session. They like the jitterbug.

Not exactly a lot of data.

Several hour dance sessions….hmmmmm

1) Help him get/stay in shape?

Or

2) Cause a sudden heart attack?

They met dancing, so I just assume she likes it. And I doubt septuagenarians actually dance enough in those house to provoke a widowmaker.

That's more likely to come after the dancing is done.

 

[Terminalxylem]

**Newlywed update**

FIL and bride seem to be getting along well. She's a little bossy, but he's happy, and they're still dancing three days a week. She is slowly moving into his home, preferring to split time at her place, while he cleans up the back room for her. That said, a couple reasons for concern:

1. She continues to push the envelope of taking neighbor's fruit. One neighbor confronted her, after she picked a couple mangoes from his tree, which were hanging over FIL's property. I think she returned the mangoes, and later put a third, rotten mango (his words) on his front walkway. She claims it was another from his tree, and still edible, but sounds like an act of passive aggression. Neighbor responds by texting my wife (admittedly, he's a busybody, but has kept close tabs on FIL, to our benefit), which unnecessarily puts her in the middle. He then throws the rotten mango in their driveway. FIL cleaned up the fruit and avoided further escalation, explaining to us his wife's intentions were good, and neighbor was acting like a child.

2. Last Friday, FIL takes his car to the Mazda dealership, to replace a piece of trim on his 6. While waiting, he calls my wife

FIL: Which is better, hybrid or electric vehicle?
Wife: Why do you ask, dad?
FIL: Oh, they have a deal on a Tesla, and I was thinking of getting it for Betty.
Wife: Those cars are pretty sophisticated, not good unless you're tech-savvy. If you're in the market for a car, you should compare several different types. We can go with you, to help.
FIL: OK, can you come tomorrow?
Wife: No, we have plans this weekend. We'll be available next Monday.
FIL: Umm, OK.

<abruptly hangs up the phone>

The next morning, as we're preparing to drive to the North Shore, wife gets a call from FIL's financial advisor. He tells her dad has liquidated $50K from his stocks.

Wife and I expect he's gonna buy the car right away. Since he wasn't listening, she decides to call step-mom. To no one's surprise, they're at the Mazda dealership. They chat for a few minutes, and step-mom seems on-board with waiting before making a purchase, repeatedly assuring my wife, "I understand".

We hear nothing more from FIL over the weekend. Wife checks in Sunday night.

Wife: Are we still on for tomorrow?
FIL: Yeah, I made an appointment Monday morning. They're gonna show us how to use the Tesla.
Wife: Wait!?! Did you buy the car?
FIL: It was a good deal, and I wasn't sure it would last until Monday.
Wife: I asked you to wait! Well, you can do what you want, but no need for us to go with you to the dealership tomorrow.

So they now own a lightly used, late Model Y. It's been parked in their driveway since the salesman assisted them driving it home. An electrician's been out to the house three times to upgrade their outlet for changing.

Today, we finally meet with the geriatrician (FIL abruptly cancelled initial appointment, but we were able to reschedule, after waiting 3 months to see him).

He takes the same dementia test performed by his PCP, but this time he score 26 out of 30, versus 19 the first time. He no longer qualifies as demented, just mild cognitive impairment. Geriatrician explains people often perform better in geri setting, as there is more time, and experience administering the tests.

Geriatrician talks to him about his memory loss, and offers ways to stave off progression. Basically, treat the risk factors, like high blood pressure/cholesterol, eat a Mediterranean diet, and exercise consistently. He also mentions being less impulsive, involving us in major decisions. FIL nods in agreement, but I doubt his sincerity.

Also of note, FIL mentions he bought the Tesla to "make her happy", so she'll stop nagging to get a new house. Geriatrician tells him that strategy won't likely succeed.

Tl;dr FIL still married. Step-mom making enemies with neighbors, and freely spending FILs money.

Thoughts?

 

[FiredMartz]

**Newlywed update**

FIL and bride seem to be getting along well. She's a little bossy, but he's happy, and they're still dancing three days a week. She is slowly moving into his home, preferring to split time at her place, while he cleans up the back room for her. That said, a couple reasons for concern:

1. She continues to push the envelope of taking neighbor's fruit. One neighbor confronted her, after she picked a couple mangoes from his tree, which were hanging over FIL's property. I think she returned the mangoes, and later put a third, rotten mango (his words) on his front walkway. She claims it was another from his tree, and still edible, but sounds like an act of passive aggression. Neighbor responds by texting my wife (admittedly, he's a busybody, but has kept close tabs on FIL, to our benefit), which unnecessarily puts her in the middle. He then throws the rotten mango in their driveway. FIL cleaned up the fruit and avoided further escalation, explaining to us his wife's intentions were good, and neighbor was acting like a child.

2. Last Friday, FIL takes his car to the Mazda dealership, to replace a piece of trim on his 6. While waiting, he calls my wife

FIL: Which is better, hybrid or electric vehicle?
Wife: Why do you ask, dad?
FIL: Oh, they have a deal on a Tesla, and I was thinking of getting it for Betty.
Wife: Those cars are pretty sophisticated, not good unless you're tech-savvy. If you're in the market for a car, you should compare several different types. We can go with you, to help.
FIL: OK, can you come tomorrow?
Wife: No, we have plans this weekend. We'll be available next Monday.
FIL: Umm, OK.

<abruptly hangs up the phone>

The next morning, as we're preparing to drive to the North Shore, wife gets a call from FIL's financial advisor. He tells her dad has liquidated $50K from his stocks.

Wife and I expect he's gonna buy the car right away. Since he wasn't listening, she decides to call step-mom. To no one's surprise, they're at the Mazda dealership. They chat for a few minutes, and step-mom seems on-board with waiting before making a purchase, repeatedly assuring my wife, "I understand".

We hear nothing more from FIL over the weekend. Wife checks in Sunday night.

Wife: Are we still on for tomorrow?
FIL: Yeah, I made an appointment Monday morning. They're gonna show us how to use the Tesla.
Wife: Wait!?! Did you buy the car?
FIL: It was a good deal, and I wasn't sure it would last until Monday.
Wife: I asked you to wait! Well, you can do what you want, but no need for us to go with you to the dealership tomorrow.

So they now own a lightly used, late Model Y. It's been parked in their driveway since the salesman assisted them driving it home. An electrician's been out to the house three times to upgrade their outlet for changing.

Today, we finally meet with the geriatrician (FIL abruptly cancelled initial appointment, but we were able to reschedule, after waiting 3 months to see him).

He takes the same dementia test performed by his PCP, but this time he score 26 out of 30, versus 19 the first time. He no longer qualifies as demented, just mild cognitive impairment. Geriatrician explains people often perform better in geri setting, as there is more time, and experience administering the tests.

Geriatrician talks to him about his memory loss, and offers ways to stave off progression. Basically, treat the risk factors, like high blood pressure/cholesterol, eat a Mediterranean diet, and exercise consistently. He also mentions being less impulsive, involving us in major decisions. FIL nods in agreement, but I doubt his sincerity.

Also of note, FIL mentions he bought the Tesla to "make her happy", so she'll stop nagging to get a new house. Geriatrician tells him that strategy won't likely succeed.

Tl;dr FIL still married. Step-mom making enemies with neighbors, and freely spending FILs money.

Thoughts?

My wife is a financial advisor and sees this all the time with clients....she calls them the Black Widow......I'll see what she thinks...

 

[Mrs. Rannous]

Thoughts?

Not good ones. Sorry.