Obama: Worst President Ever? (1 Viewer)

[AAABatteries]

I'm not sure about the worst, but I have a feeling that by 2020 my favorite president ever will be Frank Underwood.

 

[Fennis]

I'm not sure about the worst, but I have a feeling that by 2020 my favorite president ever will be Frank Underwood.

bypassing President Thomas J. Whitmore?

 

[DocHolliday]

I hate people that lie which is why I dislike Obama so much.

Obama is a weak leader. The Ukraine situation will be the final stamp on that description. Obama is like the injured mouse being batted around by cat Putin.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

Obama: Worst President Ever?

I voted No because "worst ever" is too much. There's Nixon, Carter, Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Taft, Hoover... it's a long list.

However IMO Bush Jr. finished near the top of the bottom third tier of all time presidents and right now I think Obama is slightly below him, maybe just a slot or two, but here's why:

• National debt has skyrocketed to $16-17 trillion, up around + $11 trill on his watch
• Faced with a fiscal crisis on the basis of two major social programs, social security and medicare, instead of reforming them he added one more on top of them, the ACA
• One of the worst broken presidential promises of all time: you can keep your plan/doctor/ premiums will decrease by $2500, etc. Horrible breach of trust.
• Foreign policy has gone to hell under him: Iraq was abandoned without a status of forces agreement, Afghanistan may have the same thing happen, the EU and NATO has drifted away, we have revolts in Egypt, Libya, Syria all with little to no bolstering of democratic and pro USA governments, the Syrian chemical weapons fiasco, we see a resurgent Russia, the return of Al Qaeda, all with little or no real involvement by the USA
• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis
• Domestic spying up
• Foreign spying on friends up
• Foreign spying on enemies down
• Vast Mismanagement, including IRS, Libyan consulate talking points, Russian relations, immigration, fast & furious program, the DOJ, on and on - and it's often impossible to tell what is malfeasance or misfeasance
• Still maintains public ownership over GM, the unilateral closing of dealerships and the overriding of bondholder rights, which is wrong
• Poorly executed stimulus; the stimulus was needed but the money largely went into the coffers of supporting state officials and private and union supporters, in the end perhaps a net negative on the economy we are still feeling
• The worst transparency of any administration - ever, maybe eclipsing Nixon
• Demagoguery/demonization of political opponents at home; passivity and unprompted withdrawal of US influence or outright apologies on behalf of US actions abroad - despite having been elected on the promise of doing the exact opposite
• Basically almost no agenda in Congress since he came to office with almost no improvement, actually instead a worsening of the incredible partisan divide and politicization that has affected our country more and more over the last 20 years or so - the country in essence has stood still.

Good things in his favor:

• Primarily I think he has brought a more distinguished and well-spoken demeanor to the office, after Bush and Clinton
• Good family man
• Carried the Bush program on the recovery from the 2008 crash forward, to his credit

Out of 44 presidents, I think I'd likely rank him around 30th all time.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

Obama: Worst President Ever?

I voted No because "worst ever" is too much. There's Carter, Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Taft, Hoover... it's a long list.

However IMO Bush Jr. finished near the top of the bottom third tier of all time presidents and right now I think Obama is slightly below him, maybe just a slot or two, but here's why:

• National debt has skyrocketed to $16-17 trillion, up around + $11 trill on his watch
• Faced with a fiscal crisis on the basis of two major social programs, social security and medicare, instead of reforming them he added one more on top of them, the ACA
• One of the worst broken presidential promises of all time: you can keep your plan/doctor/ premiums will decrease by $2500, etc. Horrible breach of trust.
• Foreign policy has gone to hell under him: Iraq was abandoned without a status of forces agreement, Afghanistan may have the same thing happen, the EU and NATO has drifted away, we have revolts in Egypt, Libya, Syria all with little to no bolstering of democratic and pro USA governments, the Syrian chemical weapons fiasco, we see a resurgent Russia, the return of Al Qaeda, all with little or no real involvement by the USA
• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis
• Domestic spying up
• Foreign spying on friends up
• Foreign spying on enemies down
• Vast Mismanagement, including IRS, Libyan consulate talking points, Russian relations, immigration, fast & furious program, the DOJ, on and on - and it's often impossible to tell what is malfeasance or misfeasance
• Still maintains public ownership over GM, the unilateral closing of dealerships and the overriding of bondholder rights, which is wrong
• Poorly executed stimulus; the stimulus was needed but the money largely went into the coffers of supporting state officials and private and union supporters, in the end perhaps a net negative on the economy we are still feeling
• The worst transparency of any administration - ever, maybe eclipsing Nixon
• Demagoguery/demonization of political opponents at home; passivity and unprompted withdrawal of US influence or outright apologies on behalf of US actions abroad - despite having been elected on the promise of doing the exact opposite
• Basically almost no agenda in Congress since he came to office with almost no improvement, actually instead a worsening of the incredible partisan divide and politicization that has affected our country more and more over the last 20 years or so - the country in essence has stood still.

Good things in his favor:

• Primarily I think he has brought a more distinguished and well-spoken demeanor to the office, after Bush and Clinton
• Good family man
• Carried the Bush program on the recovery from the 2008 crash forward, to his credit

Out of 44 presidents, I think I'd likely rank him around 30th all time.

Please explain how Obama is responsible for the increase in debt over the past 6 years, and also the nature of the "fiscal crisis" caused by Social Security and Medicare.

Also, Obama said he'd pursue a Public Option for Health Care reform when he was elected. Why have you neglected to include that on his list of horrible broken promises?

How are you quantifying an increase in spying on our allies and decrease in spying on our adversaries?

What are you basing your analysis of the Fiscal stimulus on?

 

[AAABatteries]

I'm not sure about the worst, but I have a feeling that by 2020 my favorite president ever will be Frank Underwood.

bypassing President Thomas J. Whitmore?

Bill Paxton sucks. </tanner>

 

[fantasycurse42]

He's not even from here.

 

[timschochet]

Saints, I think your points are worth commenting on, but one at a time:

National debt has skyrocketed to $16-17 trillion, up around + $11 trill on his watch

There are 5 reasons the national debt has skyrocketed in the last 12 years or so: the Bush tax cuts, the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Medicare plan B, TARP, and Obama's stimulus package. Of these 5, only one of them can be laid at Obama's feet, and most economists were in favor of the stimulus package at the time, and it's had some positive results. Obama's insistence of increasing taxes (slightly) has had some effect of reducing the national deficit, if not the debt. So I can't agree with you here. If you want to argue that Obama hasn't done enough to tackle the deficit and debt, that's one thing. But to blame him for it is unwarranted, IMO.

 

[timschochet]

Faced with a fiscal crisis on the basis of two major social programs, social security and medicare, instead of reforming them he added one more on top of them, the ACA.

Actually I agree with this to an extent. I'm not sure the fiscal crisis that we faced at the start of 2009 was the result of Social Security and Medicare- it had more to do with the banks. Those two, plus defense spending (which you neglected to mention) comprise much of our national spending and it's true that we will be facing serious problems and will have to reform them in the future. But your overall point that there WAS a fiscal crisis at the start of 2009, and that we could not afford a new large social program, is one that I made at the time.

Now, to be honest and fair- the CBO, as tommygunz likes to point out, says that Obamacare will result in a net savings. Personally, when all is said and done I am skeptical that this will be the case, for reasons which we've discussed at length elsewhere. But if the CBO is right, then your point, which I agree with, is nullified.

 

[timschochet]

One of the worst broken presidential promises of all time: you can keep your plan/doctor/ premiums will decrease by $2500, etc. Horrible breach of trust.

Major exaggeration here IMO, because it affects so few people. (Most are on employer plans.) Stiil, he shouldn't have said it. He was campaigning, trying to sell his program. I'm still not sure it was a deliberate falsehood. I also don't really buy the "breach of trust" thing. You're presenting a pretty black and white scenario in which the President was dishonest and/or broke promises. It's more complicated than that- and in fact, we don't know what the ultimate outcome is and we probably won't know for several years to come.

 

[timschochet]

Foreign policy has gone to hell under him: Iraq was abandoned without a status of forces agreement, Afghanistan may have the same thing happen, the EU and NATO has drifted away, we have revolts in Egypt, Libya, Syria all with little to no bolstering of democratic and pro USA governments, the Syrian chemical weapons fiasco, we see a resurgent Russia, the return of Al Qaeda, all with little or no real involvement by the USA

OK, I strongly disagree with almost all of this. It would take too long to dissect in detail, but very briefly:

1. Obama was saddled with unnecessary wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, and has done his best to resolve them while trying to protect American interests. Bush screwed up so badly that this may be impossible.

2. Not sure what you mean by "the EU and NATO have drifted away."

3. Several past Presidents are to blame for what is now happening in the Middle East- supporting dictatorships because the flow of oil was secure, while at the same time blindly calling for democracy in all instances. Obama is treading rough water here that he didn't create, and IMO doing an excellent job.

4. Russia was going to be a problem no matter what we did. Again, IMO, Obama is handling this issue correctly.

As stated before, I give President Obama an A grade for foreign policy, and I'm betting historians will as well.

 

[Hang 10]

He's so bad that his major accomplishment is doing nothing.

LEGALIZE IT BRAH

 

[timschochet]

• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis.

He's certainly issued a LOT of executive orders, more than any other President, I think. But part of that is because of the nature of the opposition he's faced in Congress. Still, it's a justifiable criticism, IMO.

 

[timschochet]

• Domestic spying up
• Foreign spying on friends up
• Foreign spying on enemies down

However one feels about the NSA, my contention is that the same would have occurred under any and all presidencies. It's a natural progression of events given September 11, 2001 and the changing technological world. I don't think we can blame Obama for this.

 

[timschochet]

Vast Mismanagement, including IRS, Libyan consulate talking points, Russian relations, immigration, fast & furious program, the DOJ, on and on - and it's often impossible to tell what is malfeasance or misfeasance

Most of these started out as small stories and then grew as conservative websites and Fox News tried to make conspiracy stuff out of them. I think most of them are non-stories, honestly, similar to all the stuff that surrounded Bill Clinton- Whitewater, Travelgate, Vince Foster, FBI files, etc. None of that stuff went anywhere, and neither will this.

 

[rockaction]

• Domestic spying up
• Foreign spying on friends up
• Foreign spying on enemies down

However one feels about the NSA, my contention is that the same would have occurred under any and all presidencies. It's a natural progression of events given September 11, 2001 and the changing technological world. I don't think we can blame Obama for this.

I think SaintsinDome's post was brilliant.

I also think that when the leaders of your top allies publicly express dismay and consternation -- think Angela Merkel -- about your spying activities against their own elected officials, you've got a real problem.

 

[timschochet]

Still maintains public ownership over GM, the unilateral closing of dealerships and the overriding of bondholder rights, which is wrong

I need to read more about this. You may be correct here; I don't know.

 

[timschochet]

Poorly executed stimulus; the stimulus was needed but the money largely went into the coffers of supporting state officials and private and union supporters, in the end perhaps a net negative on the economy we are still feeling

Couldn't agree more, and said so at the time. Outside of ACA, probably my biggest criticism of President Obama was his execution of the stimulus. Very well stated.

 

[timschochet]

The worst transparency of any administration - ever, maybe eclipsing Nixon

I'm not really sure this is true. But to be honest, it's not something I've paid a lot of attention to.

 

[timschochet]

Demagoguery/demonization of political opponents at home; passivity and unprompted withdrawal of US influence or outright apologies on behalf of US actions abroad - despite having been elected on the promise of doing the exact opposite

The demagoguery at home is certainly on both sides- and I would argue, more harsh from his opponents than from him. However, Obama DOES deserve some criticism here, especially given how he was elected the first time, as you point out.

As far as his "passivity" and "apologies" abroad, I strongly disagree with your interpretation.

 

[timschochet]

Basically almost no agenda in Congress since he came to office with almost no improvement, actually instead a worsening of the incredible partisan divide and politicization that has affected our country more and more over the last 20 years or so - the country in essence has stood still.

This is certainly not true. No agenda? Obama came in with a health care package, and got it done. He managed to push through a stimulus and a tax increase. He would like to pursue immigration reform among other things, but he can't get it through Congress.

As far as worsening the divide, it has gotten worse, no question. And Obama is partly to blame- maybe 20%. The other 80% belongs to the Tea Party wing of the Republican party.

 

[Soonerman]

I don't think he's the worst ever, but he's one half of the worst two back-to-back two term presidents ever.

 

[fantasycurse42]

12 out of the last 14 posts by Tim, even by his standards that is a little much.

 

[cstu]

It's laughable to include Obama in the discussion as worst ever. The discussion of worst ever includes Wilson, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Johnson, and Harding. My vote goes to Harding.

No mention of Hoover? Guy was partially responsible for the Great Depression.

Yup, honorable mention considering the other guys on my list either made policies that directly led to the civil war, were bigots, brought the US close to a dictatorship, or was known best as having been a great poker player.

Being partially responsible for the Depression is really bad, but gets an honorable mention in comparison.

Obama's starting to look pretty good though, isn't he?

TARP was probably the most important economic policy implemented in the 20th century. If anything, Bush was the reason there was no depression.

He earned back some respect for that. Doesn't make up for lying us into a war but prevents him from being the WOAT.

 

[Todd Andrews]

• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis.

He's certainly issued a LOT of executive orders, more than any other President, I think. But part of that is because of the nature of the opposition he's faced in Congress. Still, it's a justifiable criticism, IMO.

If you dont know what you are talking about, please educate yourself or be quiet. You dont have to have an opinion on everything.

 

[rockaction]

• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis.

He's certainly issued a LOT of executive orders, more than any other President, I think. But part of that is because of the nature of the opposition he's faced in Congress. Still, it's a justifiable criticism, IMO.

If you dont know what you are talking about, please educate yourself or be quiet. You dont have to have an opinion on everything.

Aside from disagreeing you on just about everything, did you notice that the "progressives" easily lead the pack, no matter the date, no matter the situation? What is it with you guys and leaders?

 

[urbanhack]

Obama: Worst President Ever?

I voted No because "worst ever" is too much. There's Carter, Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Taft, Hoover... it's a long list.

However IMO Bush Jr. finished near the top of the bottom third tier of all time presidents and right now I think Obama is slightly below him, maybe just a slot or two, but here's why:

• National debt has skyrocketed to $16-17 trillion, up around + $11 trill on his watch
• Faced with a fiscal crisis on the basis of two major social programs, social security and medicare, instead of reforming them he added one more on top of them, the ACA
• One of the worst broken presidential promises of all time: you can keep your plan/doctor/ premiums will decrease by $2500, etc. Horrible breach of trust.
• Foreign policy has gone to hell under him: Iraq was abandoned without a status of forces agreement, Afghanistan may have the same thing happen, the EU and NATO has drifted away, we have revolts in Egypt, Libya, Syria all with little to no bolstering of democratic and pro USA governments, the Syrian chemical weapons fiasco, we see a resurgent Russia, the return of Al Qaeda, all with little or no real involvement by the USA
• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis
• Domestic spying up
• Foreign spying on friends up
• Foreign spying on enemies down
• Vast Mismanagement, including IRS, Libyan consulate talking points, Russian relations, immigration, fast & furious program, the DOJ, on and on - and it's often impossible to tell what is malfeasance or misfeasance
• Still maintains public ownership over GM, the unilateral closing of dealerships and the overriding of bondholder rights, which is wrong
• Poorly executed stimulus; the stimulus was needed but the money largely went into the coffers of supporting state officials and private and union supporters, in the end perhaps a net negative on the economy we are still feeling
• The worst transparency of any administration - ever, maybe eclipsing Nixon
• Demagoguery/demonization of political opponents at home; passivity and unprompted withdrawal of US influence or outright apologies on behalf of US actions abroad - despite having been elected on the promise of doing the exact opposite
• Basically almost no agenda in Congress since he came to office with almost no improvement, actually instead a worsening of the incredible partisan divide and politicization that has affected our country more and more over the last 20 years or so - the country in essence has stood still.

Good things in his favor:

• Primarily I think he has brought a more distinguished and well-spoken demeanor to the office, after Bush and Clinton
• Good family man
• Carried the Bush program on the recovery from the 2008 crash forward, to his credit

Out of 44 presidents, I think I'd likely rank him around 30th all time.

tim'schooch jr. lite?

 

[rockaction]

Obama: Worst President Ever?

I voted No because "worst ever" is too much. There's Carter, Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Taft, Hoover... it's a long list.

However IMO Bush Jr. finished near the top of the bottom third tier of all time presidents and right now I think Obama is slightly below him, maybe just a slot or two, but here's why:

• National debt has skyrocketed to $16-17 trillion, up around + $11 trill on his watch
• Faced with a fiscal crisis on the basis of two major social programs, social security and medicare, instead of reforming them he added one more on top of them, the ACA
• One of the worst broken presidential promises of all time: you can keep your plan/doctor/ premiums will decrease by $2500, etc. Horrible breach of trust.
• Foreign policy has gone to hell under him: Iraq was abandoned without a status of forces agreement, Afghanistan may have the same thing happen, the EU and NATO has drifted away, we have revolts in Egypt, Libya, Syria all with little to no bolstering of democratic and pro USA governments, the Syrian chemical weapons fiasco, we see a resurgent Russia, the return of Al Qaeda, all with little or no real involvement by the USA
• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis
• Domestic spying up
• Foreign spying on friends up
• Foreign spying on enemies down
• Vast Mismanagement, including IRS, Libyan consulate talking points, Russian relations, immigration, fast & furious program, the DOJ, on and on - and it's often impossible to tell what is malfeasance or misfeasance
• Still maintains public ownership over GM, the unilateral closing of dealerships and the overriding of bondholder rights, which is wrong
• Poorly executed stimulus; the stimulus was needed but the money largely went into the coffers of supporting state officials and private and union supporters, in the end perhaps a net negative on the economy we are still feeling
• The worst transparency of any administration - ever, maybe eclipsing Nixon
• Demagoguery/demonization of political opponents at home; passivity and unprompted withdrawal of US influence or outright apologies on behalf of US actions abroad - despite having been elected on the promise of doing the exact opposite
• Basically almost no agenda in Congress since he came to office with almost no improvement, actually instead a worsening of the incredible partisan divide and politicization that has affected our country more and more over the last 20 years or so - the country in essence has stood still.

Good things in his favor:

• Primarily I think he has brought a more distinguished and well-spoken demeanor to the office, after Bush and Clinton
• Good family man
• Carried the Bush program on the recovery from the 2008 crash forward, to his credit

Out of 44 presidents, I think I'd likely rank him around 30th all time.

tim'schooch jr. lite?

Too concise. Admittedly declarative. Great post. Best I've seen in a political thread in the FFA since I started.

 

[jon_mx]

It's laughable to include Obama in the discussion as worst ever. The discussion of worst ever includes Wilson, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Johnson, and Harding. My vote goes to Harding.

No mention of Hoover? Guy was partially responsible for the Great Depression.

Yup, honorable mention considering the other guys on my list either made policies that directly led to the civil war, were bigots, brought the US close to a dictatorship, or was known best as having been a great poker player.

Being partially responsible for the Depression is really bad, but gets an honorable mention in comparison.

Obama's starting to look pretty good though, isn't he?

TARP was probably the most important economic policy implemented in the 20th century. If anything, Bush was the reason there was no depression.

He earned back some respect for that. Doesn't make up for lying us into a war but prevents him from being the WOAT.

I disagree with how that is stated. I don't think he lied. He based his case on the evidence at hand which both parties bought into. Some of the stuff seen as a lie such as imminent threat was stuff Chenney said several months after the fact. Bush's case was based on questionable information from our intelligence information and aided by the fact Sadamm was uncooperative.

 

[Todd Andrews]

Obama: Worst President Ever?

I voted No because "worst ever" is too much. There's Carter, Tyler, Andrew Johnson, Taft, Hoover... it's a long list.

However IMO Bush Jr. finished near the top of the bottom third tier of all time presidents and right now I think Obama is slightly below him, maybe just a slot or two, but here's why:

• National debt has skyrocketed to $16-17 trillion, up around + $11 trill on his watch Wrong. Do your research, please.
• Faced with a fiscal crisis on the basis of two major social programs, social security and medicare, instead of reforming them he added one more on top of them, the ACA If the cost containment aspects of the ACA work--and I am not sure they will--it will help Medicare greatly. It remains to be seen whether ACA is a "fiscal crisis". I am not sure why you think fixing one bad thing means that you cant address other bad things.
• One of the worst broken presidential promises of all time: you can keep your plan/doctor/ premiums will decrease by $2500, etc. Horrible breach of trust. Yawn.
• Foreign policy has gone to hell under him: Iraq was abandoned without a status of forces agreement, Afghanistan may have the same thing happen, the EU and NATO has drifted away, we have revolts in Egypt, Libya, Syria all with little to no bolstering of democratic and pro USA governments, the Syrian chemical weapons fiasco, we see a resurgent Russia, the return of Al Qaeda, all with little or no real involvement by the USA This mostly conclusory conjecture and partisan rhetoric. Watch, I can do the same thing: We left Iraq and needed to--we never should have been there; we need to get out of Afghanistan; the EU and NATO have not "drifted away"; the Arab Spring is a great thing that leads to increased democracy, which does not necessarily lead to pro USA governments; Syrian chemical weapons--who cares?; resurgent Russia? Its a sad second world country bleating and banging its chest--who cares?; Al Qaeda has been decimated.
• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis What are you talking about, exactly?
• Domestic spying up Not sure if its up, but it is certainly more exposed and public.
• Foreign spying on friends up Not sure if its up, but it is certainly more exposed and public.
• Foreign spying on enemies down Link?
• Vast Mismanagement, including IRS, Libyan consulate talking points, Russian relations, immigration, fast & furious program, the DOJ, on and on - and it's often impossible to tell what is malfeasance or misfeasance That reads like a list of meaningless non-problems most people dont take seriously or care about.
• Still maintains public ownership over GM, the unilateral closing of dealerships and the overriding of bondholder rights, which is wrong So?
• Poorly executed stimulus; the stimulus was needed but the money largely went into the coffers of supporting state officials and private and union supporters, in the end perhaps a net negative on the economy we are still feeling No one believes that the stimulus created a net negative.
• The worst transparency of any administration - ever, maybe eclipsing Nixon
• Demagoguery/demonization of political opponents at home; passivity and unprompted withdrawal of US influence or outright apologies on behalf of US actions abroad - despite having been elected on the promise of doing the exact opposite What demonization? Examples, please. What apologies? Examples, please. Do you think the US should never apologize for its actions abroad?
• Basically almost no agenda in Congress since he came to office with almost no improvement, actually instead a worsening of the incredible partisan divide and politicization that has affected our country more and more over the last 20 years or so - the country in essence has stood still. Not being able to get an agenda passed is not the same as not having one. And remember, the ACA was a massive legislative achievement as were a number of other legislative accomplishments, albeit it earlier in his first term. Now things are pretty much locked up for good.

Good things in his favor:

• Primarily I think he has brought a more distinguished and well-spoken demeanor to the office, after Bush and Clinton
• Good family man
• Carried the Bush program on the recovery from the 2008 crash forward, to his credit

Out of 44 presidents, I think I'd likely rank him around 30th all time. Too soon to tell. But no where near the worst list.

 

[timschochet]

• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis.

He's certainly issued a LOT of executive orders, more than any other President, I think. But part of that is because of the nature of the opposition he's faced in Congress. Still, it's a justifiable criticism, IMO.

If you dont know what you are talking about, please educate yourself or be quiet. You dont have to have an opinion on everything.

Wow. You're right I had no idea. It's been repeated on right wing talk radio that he's issued more than anyone else about a zillion times. I guess I just accepted it as true. Thanks for informing me otherwise.

 

[Todd Andrews]

• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis.

He's certainly issued a LOT of executive orders, more than any other President, I think. But part of that is because of the nature of the opposition he's faced in Congress. Still, it's a justifiable criticism, IMO.

If you dont know what you are talking about, please educate yourself or be quiet. You dont have to have an opinion on everything.

Wow. You're right I had no idea. It's been repeated on right wing talk radio that he's issued more than anyone else about a zillion times. I guess I just accepted it as true. Thanks for informing me otherwise.

So it is still a justifiable criticism?

 

[timschochet]

• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis.

He's certainly issued a LOT of executive orders, more than any other President, I think. But part of that is because of the nature of the opposition he's faced in Congress. Still, it's a justifiable criticism, IMO.

If you dont know what you are talking about, please educate yourself or be quiet. You dont have to have an opinion on everything.

Wow. You're right I had no idea. It's been repeated on right wing talk radio that he's issued more than anyone else about a zillion times. I guess I just accepted it as true. Thanks for informing me otherwise.

So it is still a justifiable criticism?

Probably not.

 

[McGarnicle]

Would it kill him to be photographed drinking some Courvoisier once in a while? Maybe let a "mother####er" slip out? Whitest first black president ever IMO.

 

[butcher boy]

Would it kill him to be photographed drinking some Courvoisier once in a while? Maybe let a "mother####er" slip out? Whitest first black president ever IMO.

would love to see him make his bracket picks next year holding a Colt 45.

 

[rockaction]

• A vast overexpansion of the executive power and creation of an almost constitutional crisis.

He's certainly issued a LOT of executive orders, more than any other President, I think. But part of that is because of the nature of the opposition he's faced in Congress. Still, it's a justifiable criticism, IMO.

If you dont know what you are talking about, please educate yourself or be quiet. You dont have to have an opinion on everything.

Wow. You're right I had no idea. It's been repeated on right wing talk radio that he's issued more than anyone else about a zillion times. I guess I just accepted it as true. Thanks for informing me otherwise.

So it is still a justifiable criticism?

Probably not.

Executive orders aren't the only way to broaden executive power, by the way. Ceding or hoarding power to admin agencies, recess appointments, etc., is a great way to also do that.

Surprised I missed this the first time around.

 

[cstu]

It's laughable to include Obama in the discussion as worst ever. The discussion of worst ever includes Wilson, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Johnson, and Harding. My vote goes to Harding.

No mention of Hoover? Guy was partially responsible for the Great Depression.

Yup, honorable mention considering the other guys on my list either made policies that directly led to the civil war, were bigots, brought the US close to a dictatorship, or was known best as having been a great poker player.

Being partially responsible for the Depression is really bad, but gets an honorable mention in comparison.

Obama's starting to look pretty good though, isn't he?

TARP was probably the most important economic policy implemented in the 20th century. If anything, Bush was the reason there was no depression.

He earned back some respect for that. Doesn't make up for lying us into a war but prevents him from being the WOAT.

I disagree with how that is stated. I don't think he lied. He based his case on the evidence at hand which both parties bought into. Some of the stuff seen as a lie such as imminent threat was stuff Chenney said several months after the fact. Bush's case was based on questionable information from our intelligence information and aided by the fact Sadamm was uncooperative.

Bush pushed people to give him evidence he could use to invade Iraq and got it.

Maybe 'lie' isn't 100% accurate but I don't believe he cared at all if the information he got was accurate just so long as he could convince people with it.

 

[Apple Jack]

"The evidence at hand." Good one.

 

[Mohawk]

For greedy wealthy, pigs he might be the worst ever. For mainstream America, DEFINITELY not.

 

[urbanhack]

For greedy wealthy, pigs he might be the worst ever. For mainstream America, DEFINITELY not.

Huh? The rich are ####### soaking it in now more than ever.

 

[johnjohn]

For greedy wealthy, pigs he might be the worst ever. For mainstream America, DEFINITELY not.

Since 2008, the number of people who call themselves middle class has fallen by nearly a fifth, according to a survey in January by the Pew Research Center, from 53 percent to 44 percent. Forty percent now identify as either lower-middle or lower class compared with just 25 percent in February 2008.

 

[NREC34]

For greedy wealthy, pigs he might be the worst ever. For mainstream America, DEFINITELY not.

Since 2008, the number of people who call themselves middle class has fallen by nearly a fifth, according to a survey in January by the Pew Research Center, from 53 percent to 44 percent. Forty percent now identify as either lower-middle or lower class compared with just 25 percent in February 2008.

Tell that to your republican friends who won't raise the minimum wage and won't pass a jobs bill.

 

[Gnat Berries]

Today he refused to deport Beiber.

Getting worse...

 

[32 Counter Pass]

For the no voters, who's worse and why?

Bush II, and it isn't close.

 

[jamny]

It's laughable to include Obama in the discussion as worst ever. The discussion of worst ever includes Wilson, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Johnson, and Harding. My vote goes to Harding.

No mention of Hoover? Guy was partially responsible for the Great Depression.

Yup, honorable mention considering the other guys on my list either made policies that directly led to the civil war, were bigots, brought the US close to a dictatorship, or was known best as having been a great poker player.

Being partially responsible for the Depression is really bad, but gets an honorable mention in comparison.

Obama's starting to look pretty good though, isn't he?

TARP was probably the most important economic policy implemented in the 20th century. If anything, Bush was the reason there was no depression.

He earned back some respect for that. Doesn't make up for lying us into a war but prevents him from being the WOAT.

I disagree with how that is stated. I don't think he lied. He based his case on the evidence at hand which both parties bought into. Some of the stuff seen as a lie such as imminent threat was stuff Chenney said several months after the fact. Bush's case was based on questionable information from our intelligence information and aided by the fact Sadamm was uncooperative.

Bush pushed people to give him evidence he could use to invade Iraq and got it.

Maybe 'lie' isn't 100% accurate but I don't believe he cared at all if the information he got was accurate just so long as he could convince people with it.

In your unbiased opinion.

 

[drummer]

It's laughable to include Obama in the discussion as worst ever. The discussion of worst ever includes Wilson, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Johnson, and Harding. My vote goes to Harding.

No mention of Hoover? Guy was partially responsible for the Great Depression.

Yup, honorable mention considering the other guys on my list either made policies that directly led to the civil war, were bigots, brought the US close to a dictatorship, or was known best as having been a great poker player.

Being partially responsible for the Depression is really bad, but gets an honorable mention in comparison.

Obama's starting to look pretty good though, isn't he?

TARP was probably the most important economic policy implemented in the 20th century. If anything, Bush was the reason there was no depression.

He earned back some respect for that. Doesn't make up for lying us into a war but prevents him from being the WOAT.

I disagree with how that is stated. I don't think he lied. He based his case on the evidence at hand which both parties bought into. Some of the stuff seen as a lie such as imminent threat was stuff Chenney said several months after the fact. Bush's case was based on questionable information from our intelligence information and aided by the fact Sadamm was uncooperative.

Bush pushed people to give him evidence he could use to invade Iraq and got it.

Maybe 'lie' isn't 100% accurate but I don't believe he cared at all if the information he got was accurate just so long as he could convince people with it.

In your unbiased opinion.

Bush was more pushed by his administration to invade Iraq because there was $$ in it. But it was based on lies. Bush II is almost a non-POTUS. He was just there in name only.

 

[jamny]

It's laughable to include Obama in the discussion as worst ever. The discussion of worst ever includes Wilson, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Johnson, and Harding. My vote goes to Harding.

No mention of Hoover? Guy was partially responsible for the Great Depression.

Yup, honorable mention considering the other guys on my list either made policies that directly led to the civil war, were bigots, brought the US close to a dictatorship, or was known best as having been a great poker player.

Being partially responsible for the Depression is really bad, but gets an honorable mention in comparison.

Obama's starting to look pretty good though, isn't he?

TARP was probably the most important economic policy implemented in the 20th century. If anything, Bush was the reason there was no depression.

He earned back some respect for that. Doesn't make up for lying us into a war but prevents him from being the WOAT.

I disagree with how that is stated. I don't think he lied. He based his case on the evidence at hand which both parties bought into. Some of the stuff seen as a lie such as imminent threat was stuff Chenney said several months after the fact. Bush's case was based on questionable information from our intelligence information and aided by the fact Sadamm was uncooperative.

Bush pushed people to give him evidence he could use to invade Iraq and got it.

Maybe 'lie' isn't 100% accurate but I don't believe he cared at all if the information he got was accurate just so long as he could convince people with it.

In your unbiased opinion.

Bush was more pushed by his administration to invade Iraq because there was $$ in it. But it was based on lies. Bush II is almost a non-POTUS. He was just there in name only.

I can buy that he might have been manipulated by people around him. I don't believe he lied or purposely went in under false pretenses.

 

[drummer]

It's laughable to include Obama in the discussion as worst ever. The discussion of worst ever includes Wilson, Nixon, Fillmore, Pierce, Johnson, and Harding. My vote goes to Harding.

No mention of Hoover? Guy was partially responsible for the Great Depression.

Yup, honorable mention considering the other guys on my list either made policies that directly led to the civil war, were bigots, brought the US close to a dictatorship, or was known best as having been a great poker player.

Being partially responsible for the Depression is really bad, but gets an honorable mention in comparison.

Obama's starting to look pretty good though, isn't he?

TARP was probably the most important economic policy implemented in the 20th century. If anything, Bush was the reason there was no depression.

He earned back some respect for that. Doesn't make up for lying us into a war but prevents him from being the WOAT.

I disagree with how that is stated. I don't think he lied. He based his case on the evidence at hand which both parties bought into. Some of the stuff seen as a lie such as imminent threat was stuff Chenney said several months after the fact. Bush's case was based on questionable information from our intelligence information and aided by the fact Sadamm was uncooperative.

Bush pushed people to give him evidence he could use to invade Iraq and got it.

Maybe 'lie' isn't 100% accurate but I don't believe he cared at all if the information he got was accurate just so long as he could convince people with it.

In your unbiased opinion.

Bush was more pushed by his administration to invade Iraq because there was $$ in it. But it was based on lies. Bush II is almost a non-POTUS. He was just there in name only.

I can buy that he might have been manipulated by people around him. I don't believe he lied or purposely went in under false pretenses.

Well, that's your opinion. Yet history is already vetting that, and it's not on GWB's side.

 

[jamny]

Bush was more pushed by his administration to invade Iraq because there was $$ in it. But it was based on lies. Bush II is almost a non-POTUS. He was just there in name only.

I can buy that he might have been manipulated by people around him. I don't believe he lied or purposely went in under false pretenses.

Well, that's your opinion. Yet history is already vetting that, and it's not on GWB's side.

Of course it is. That's all it can be at this point from either side. I don't think he was a great President but I think he's a good man who cared about his country and did the best he could. 9/11 happened on his watch and it shaped his presidency. Who knows what he would have been like without the attack. But he dealt with it whether you like the results or not.

 

[drummer]

Bush was more pushed by his administration to invade Iraq because there was $$ in it. But it was based on lies. Bush II is almost a non-POTUS. He was just there in name only.

I can buy that he might have been manipulated by people around him. I don't believe he lied or purposely went in under false pretenses.

Well, that's your opinion. Yet history is already vetting that, and it's not on GWB's side.

Of course it is. That's all it can be at this point from either side. I don't think he was a great President but I think he's a good man who cared about his country and did the best he could. 9/11 happened on his watch and it shaped his presidency. Who knows what he would have been like without the attack. But he dealt with it whether you like the results or not.

Without 9/11, they would had invaded Iraq anyway. You had **** Cheney, Wolfowitz, and Rumsfeld. Colin Powell fell on the sword for it. They did everything they could to justify the invasion. The only ones who win in Iraq are the ones that profit from it as far as $$. Because that's what it's all about.