Obama: Worst President Ever? (2 Viewers)

[Mr.Pack]

Obamacare is good, except:

- the fact that companies are dropping workers hours so they don't have to cover them anymore forcing them on obamacare

- That the whole reason for nationalized healthcare was to bring prices down for everyone so that it was more affordable

- Forcing people to have healthcare, I thought this was America, not Ameri-Ka

Most everyone's premiums are going up, sure there are exceptions, but in general it's rising faster than in the past.

It's a colossal fail

 

[flapgreen]

I still don't understand how anyone can apply "worst" to Obama. Just about everything he's done has been mediocre, neither great or awful, with the exception of his foreign policy which has been very good.

Bush has the decision to invade Iraq. If you believe that was a rotten decision (as I do) that makes Bush a rotten President. Obama doesn't have anything, for good or ill, close to the magnitude of that decision.

What does Bush being rotten have to do with Obama being rotten? Foreign policy "very good?" dude

 

[Josie Maran]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

So how long would you have kept a large military presence in Iraq?

 

[jamny]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

 

[jamny]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

So how long would you have kept a large military presence in Iraq?

I don't have the inside knowledge to provide an answer. The Obama Administration seems to have felt that we were there long enough. It was a mistake. He was wrong. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to admit it. We ####ed up again.

 

[BigSteelThrill]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

So how long would you have kept a large military presence in Iraq?

I don't have the inside knowledge to provide an answer. The Obama Administration seems to have felt that we were there long enough. It was a mistake. He was wrong. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to admit it. We ####ed up again.

No ####### way. We shouldnt be in Iraq at all.

 

[jon_mx]

The Obama Economic Record: the worst five years since World War II

Bailouts have resulted in capital being stuck in businesses that are either inefficiently run or have failed to produce goods and services that consumers value highly. In the absence of bailouts, some firms would have gone bankrupt and the capital reallocated to vibrant firms that are producing what consumers demand in a cost-effective way.

Expansion of government entitlement programs, such as food stamps and unemployment compensation, has reduced the incentive to be employed. The average benefit per recipient of food stamps jumped by approximately 25 percent between 2007 and 2010 due to rule changes. It also became easier to qualify for food stamps. As Richard Vedder points out in a Wall Street Journal editorial, the number of food stamp recipients rose by over 7 million between 2010 and 2012, a period of falling unemployment.

And yet the stock markets are at all-time highs...odd business, that.

Not really. Cheap money funding overseas market expansion.

And yet manufacturing is returning to the US in droves, thanks to the abundance of cheap energy here.

Like it or not, the performance of the stock market will factor into this president's record and for those of us who have benefited greatly, we appreciate it. If cheap money has caused massive returns, so be it...I'm loving it. And unlike the last president, who sat on his hands and did nothing while mortgage companies committed fraud in a rush to put people in houses who had no business being home owners, creating a financial storm so massive it took years to work out of, I don't see a financial holocaust in our future. Maybe you do....maybe raising rates will put an end to the bull market, something that no doubt looms ahead. But what you won't find on Obama's record is twiddling his thumbs while banks created instruments that nearly destroyed the global financial system.

And the laws which were passed which allowed all those financial shenanigans were trumpeted by Clinton and passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. Bush did make some minor efforts to fix it, but should have done a lot more to put that genie back in the bottle. Bush's efforts were stopped by Democrats in Congress FYI.

 

[jamny]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

So how long would you have kept a large military presence in Iraq?

I don't have the inside knowledge to provide an answer. The Obama Administration seems to have felt that we were there long enough. It was a mistake. He was wrong. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to admit it. We ####ed up again.

No ####### way. We shouldnt be in Iraq at all.

We (The US) shouldn't be anywhere alone. Eventually someone will come along and unite everyone to fight this. This is a global epidemic. Something that will take 20+ more years to fight. Unfortunately, it'll take something far worse than 9/11 to make it happen, imo. But it will happen because these animals won't stop until they are dead.

 

[jamny]

The Obama Economic Record: the worst five years since World War II

Bailouts have resulted in capital being stuck in businesses that are either inefficiently run or have failed to produce goods and services that consumers value highly. In the absence of bailouts, some firms would have gone bankrupt and the capital reallocated to vibrant firms that are producing what consumers demand in a cost-effective way.

Expansion of government entitlement programs, such as food stamps and unemployment compensation, has reduced the incentive to be employed. The average benefit per recipient of food stamps jumped by approximately 25 percent between 2007 and 2010 due to rule changes. It also became easier to qualify for food stamps. As Richard Vedder points out in a Wall Street Journal editorial, the number of food stamp recipients rose by over 7 million between 2010 and 2012, a period of falling unemployment.

And yet the stock markets are at all-time highs...odd business, that.

Not really. Cheap money funding overseas market expansion.

And yet manufacturing is returning to the US in droves, thanks to the abundance of cheap energy here.

Like it or not, the performance of the stock market will factor into this president's record and for those of us who have benefited greatly, we appreciate it. If cheap money has caused massive returns, so be it...I'm loving it. And unlike the last president, who sat on his hands and did nothing while mortgage companies committed fraud in a rush to put people in houses who had no business being home owners, creating a financial storm so massive it took years to work out of, I don't see a financial holocaust in our future. Maybe you do....maybe raising rates will put an end to the bull market, something that no doubt looms ahead. But what you won't find on Obama's record is twiddling his thumbs while banks created instruments that nearly destroyed the global financial system.

And the laws which were passed which allowed all those financial shenanigans were trumpeted by Clinton and passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. Bush did make some minor efforts to fix it, but should have done a lot more to put that genie back in the bottle. Bush's efforts were stopped by Democrats in Congress FYI.

I always save this link for just these posts.

Please read it GM

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

And the laws which were passed which allowed all those financial shenanigans were trumpeted by Clinton and passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. Bush did make some minor efforts to fix it, but should have done a lot more to put that genie back in the bottle. Bush's efforts were stopped by Democrats in Congress FYI.

Which is why we need to scrap this center right, pandering to big business, tax cuts solve all problems model of governing. It has failed over and over.

 

[jamny]

And the laws which were passed which allowed all those financial shenanigans were trumpeted by Clinton and passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. Bush did make some minor efforts to fix it, but should have done a lot more to put that genie back in the bottle. Bush's efforts were stopped by Democrats in Congress FYI.

Which is why we need to scrap this center right, pandering to big business, tax cuts solve all problems model of governing. It has failed over and over.

Maybe someday you'll realize that center-left panders to big business as well.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

And the laws which were passed which allowed all those financial shenanigans were trumpeted by Clinton and passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. Bush did make some minor efforts to fix it, but should have done a lot more to put that genie back in the bottle. Bush's efforts were stopped by Democrats in Congress FYI.

Which is why we need to scrap this center right, pandering to big business, tax cuts solve all problems model of governing. It has failed over and over.

Maybe someday you'll realize that center-left panders to big business as well.

Long time ago, but center left has not had any power for a long time. Now stop posting your nonsense and start getting to work on volume 4.

 

[SaintsInDome2006]

In some ways this could be looked at as one long 4 terms presidency. I think the country was ready to transition in 2008, after total failure on that front it looks like we will have to try again.

I agree. Lets try a liberal for a change!

True. I would be very happy with someone of some real principle, who believes what they say, or at least just has some controlling belief structure. Yes. I would be happy to accept the same from a conservative btw.

All of the Republican fears of Obama being a socialist just seem so ill-founded, and the same is true of all those passionate Demo hopes that were invested in him; Obama's dominating feature seems to be that he hardly seems to believe in anything. Really I think the guy has just been on a roll since he left Occidental.

I'd rather have a pragmatist as President than an ideologue.

And I think our country wants that, or it did in 2008. I don't think someone with no core set of beliefs that he will hold to can really be a pragmatist though. I'd like to see our Congress grab the reins of power back, I really think our political woes as a country can be solved there. -. But almost no one actually in office wants to compromise. There are House bills that will never see the light of day as long as Reid is in office; there are Democratic proposals that can never be heard in the House. We have a president who doesn't even show up on the Hill or have any kind of legislative agenda. The whole country is just voters talking past each other right now and their politicians follow suit.

 

[jamny]

And the laws which were passed which allowed all those financial shenanigans were trumpeted by Clinton and passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. Bush did make some minor efforts to fix it, but should have done a lot more to put that genie back in the bottle. Bush's efforts were stopped by Democrats in Congress FYI.

Which is why we need to scrap this center right, pandering to big business, tax cuts solve all problems model of governing. It has failed over and over.

Maybe someday you'll realize that center-left panders to big business as well.

Long time ago, but center left has not had any power for a long time. Now stop posting your nonsense and start getting to work on volume 4.

Try as you might to excuse our President, while he might not be the liberal that many make him out to be, he is definitely center-left.

*and fwiw, I actually started reading Vol.4 this past week and doing some edits. Not sure if it'll happen though. He took too much from other books, imo.

 

[greenroom]

What are we really arguing about? I don't think anyone is saying that President Obama is a great president. But with what he inherited, and the Congress that he has had, I really don't think anyone could of done a great job. He will be remember just like President GW Bush as a poor President!

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pulling out of Iraq how and when we did, supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria and allowing our equipment to fall into their hands in Iraq is the reason for the situation there right now.

That's on Obama.

The old chicken and the egg thing applies here. You do understand that right?

No it isn't.

It was an ongoing mission that the incoming President was supposed to manage. So far, he has failed. His claim was that we were leaving behind a stable and self-reliant country. VP Biden claimed it would be "One Of The Great Achievements Of This Administration" We know which came first. Obama's Iraq came second. Blame Bush all you want, but what we are seeing now is a result of Obama's actions in handling the job he was given.

I know you're an Obama hater and always have been, but this is such an unreasonable statement I'm not sure what to even do with it. The Obama administration had nothing to do with sending thousands of Americans to their unnecessary deaths, or creating a vacuum in the region because of it.

You are making some really outrageous claims. Where do you have the information that the U.S. "supplied" ISIS with weapons in Syria? And how exactly did we let our weapons fall into their hands? By leaving? Was it your goal to spend billions more in Iraq at the cost of American lives so the right wing narrative of Rumsfeld and Cheney be bolstered?

Lots of nonsense in your post.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

 

[MaxThreshold]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

We would, but you, Obama, TGunz and Todd have taken up residence in the only room available. Let us know when you guys are done.

 

[the moops]

- That the whole reason for nationalized healthcare was to bring prices down for everyone so that it was more affordable

We dont have a nationalized healthcare.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

We would, but you've got the only room occupied with TGunz and Todd. Let us know when you guys are done.

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama

Racist, moronic rants against Obama

Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

 

[MaxThreshold]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

We would, but you've got the only room occupied with TGunz and Todd. Let us know when you guys are done.

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama

Racist, moronic rants against Obama

Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Hmmmm...not even close. "A" for effort, though.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

We would, but you've got the only room occupied with TGunz and Todd. Let us know when you guys are done.

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama

Racist, moronic rants against Obama

Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Hmmmm...not even close. "A" for effort, though.

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

 

[cosjobs]

And the laws which were passed which allowed all those financial shenanigans were trumpeted by Clinton and passed overwhelmingly with bipartisan support. Bush did make some minor efforts to fix it, but should have done a lot more to put that genie back in the bottle. Bush's efforts were stopped by Democrats in Congress FYI.

Which is why we need to scrap this center right, pandering to big business, tax cuts solve all problems model of governing. It has failed over and over.

Maybe someday you'll realize that center-left panders to big business as well.

Yes they do. Sadly candidacy is not viable without the funds only big business has the pockets for. Let's talk about real campaign finance reform

 

[MaxThreshold]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

We would, but you've got the only room occupied with TGunz and Todd. Let us know when you guys are done.

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama

Racist, moronic rants against Obama

Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Hmmmm...not even close. "A" for effort, though.

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Seriously?

Who the heck are you? The President? I realize you're in bed with him but I don't have to prove your inane comments.

 

[humpback]

Hold up.....did he RAISE taxes or has there simply been NO REDUCTION in taxes. You are saying two completely different things here, hoss. Also, sorry to tell you, but healthcare premiums - which historically have risen year over year no matter who the president was in office, outpacing inflation by a huge figure - are coming down. I know you don't want to believe it and whatever garbage radio you stuff into your ears will tell you differently, but health care premiums that are ACA compliant are DOWN. Period. And not just down a little, but we're talking down 10% or more.
That's a fact.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

We would, but you've got the only room occupied with TGunz and Todd. Let us know when you guys are done.

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama

Racist, moronic rants against Obama

Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Hmmmm...not even close. "A" for effort, though.

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Seriously?

Who the heck are you? The President? I realize you're in bed with him but I don't have to prove your inane comments.

You can't prove it, that's the problem.

 

[jamny]

Pulling out of Iraq how and when we did, supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria and allowing our equipment to fall into their hands in Iraq is the reason for the situation there right now.

That's on Obama.

The old chicken and the egg thing applies here. You do understand that right?

No it isn't.

It was an ongoing mission that the incoming President was supposed to manage. So far, he has failed. His claim was that we were leaving behind a stable and self-reliant country. VP Biden claimed it would be "One Of The Great Achievements Of This Administration" We know which came first. Obama's Iraq came second. Blame Bush all you want, but what we are seeing now is a result of Obama's actions in handling the job he was given.

I know you're an Obama hater and always have been, but this is such an unreasonable statement I'm not sure what to even do with it. The Obama administration had nothing to do with sending thousands of Americans to their unnecessary deaths, or creating a vacuum in the region because of it.

You are making some really outrageous claims. Where do you have the information that the U.S. "supplied" ISIS with weapons in Syria? And how exactly did we let our weapons fall into their hands? By leaving? Was it your goal to spend billions more in Iraq at the cost of American lives so the right wing narrative of Rumsfeld and Cheney be bolstered?

Lots of nonsense in your post.

Sorry DD. I do not hate Obama and gave him plenty of opportunities to sway my opinion of him as being unqualified and ill-prepared for the job as our President. I've never stated anything against him personally and actually think he's probably a good guy, just that he wasn't right for the job. No hate, nothing personal.

Now, if you don't think that any of the equipment that we supplied to the resistance in Syria made it's way into ISIS hands, and you don't realize that we could have prevented the fall of Mosul, which added to their stockpile of US weapons, I have to seriously begin to rethink your ability to rationally evaluate what is going on in the region. I have valued your insight in the past on many areas but I think you are either letting your biases get in the way of an honest evaluation or you are actually no longer close enough to things to form a realistic conclusion.

 

[MaxThreshold]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

You have to remember that these Obama apologists and excuse makers in here are all in on him. Heavily invested. Admitting Obama is an incompetent boob means that they would have to admit that THEY were wrong.

That's never gonna' happen - even with the more reasonable progressives in here (and I use the term "reasonable" very loosely). Guys like TGunz, ToddAndrews, BFS, etc...well, those are the Jim-Jones type followers and you most certainly won't get anything from them.

That's why it's not worth discussing with some people. I'm not saying he's the worst in my lifetime. Carter still holds that position for me but if #### really hits the fan in the next couple of years, Obama might get my vote.

Clinton had a great economy? Ignore Congress.

Bush invaded Iraq? Ignore Congress.

Obama barely got anything accomplished? Blame Congress! Not forgiving Congress here because Boehner sucks too. We just have no leaders. Just a bunch of children and ego-driven fools.

Time will tell with Obama but I think history will not look back well at his Presidency.

You two should get a room.

We would, but you've got the only room occupied with TGunz and Todd. Let us know when you guys are done.

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama

Racist, moronic rants against Obama

Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Hmmmm...not even close. "A" for effort, though.

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Seriously?

Who the heck are you? The President? I realize you're in bed with him but I don't have to prove your inane comments.

You can't prove it, that's the problem.

I don't have to.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pulling out of Iraq how and when we did, supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria and allowing our equipment to fall into their hands in Iraq is the reason for the situation there right now.

That's on Obama.

The old chicken and the egg thing applies here. You do understand that right?

No it isn't.

It was an ongoing mission that the incoming President was supposed to manage. So far, he has failed. His claim was that we were leaving behind a stable and self-reliant country. VP Biden claimed it would be "One Of The Great Achievements Of This Administration" We know which came first. Obama's Iraq came second. Blame Bush all you want, but what we are seeing now is a result of Obama's actions in handling the job he was given.

I know you're an Obama hater and always have been, but this is such an unreasonable statement I'm not sure what to even do with it. The Obama administration had nothing to do with sending thousands of Americans to their unnecessary deaths, or creating a vacuum in the region because of it.

You are making some really outrageous claims. Where do you have the information that the U.S. "supplied" ISIS with weapons in Syria? And how exactly did we let our weapons fall into their hands? By leaving? Was it your goal to spend billions more in Iraq at the cost of American lives so the right wing narrative of Rumsfeld and Cheney be bolstered?

Lots of nonsense in your post.

Sorry DD. I do not hate Obama and gave him plenty of opportunities to sway my opinion of him as being unqualified and ill-prepared for the job as our President. I've never stated anything against him personally and actually think he's probably a good guy, just that he wasn't right for the job. No hate, nothing personal.

Now, if you don't think that any of the equipment that we supplied to the resistance in Syria made it's way into ISIS hands, and you don't realize that we could have prevented the fall of Mosul, which added to their stockpile of US weapons, I have to seriously begin to rethink your ability to rationally evaluate what is going on in the region. I have valued your insight in the past on many areas but I think you are either letting your biases get in the way of an honest evaluation or you are actually no longer close enough to things to form a realistic conclusion.

Lol, this is hilarious.

Please provide proof for this statement:

supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria

You are saying that we directly supplied them with weapons. Are you now saying you might not be correct? Back-peddle much?

Also I do not like this administration in the slightest, I just enjoy watching the lunatic right wingers flop around like fish when I prove them to be incorrect.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Seriously?

Who the heck are you? The President? I realize you're in bed with him but I don't have to prove your inane comments.

You can't prove it, that's the problem.

I don't have to.

You can't

 

[jamny]

Pulling out of Iraq how and when we did, supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria and allowing our equipment to fall into their hands in Iraq is the reason for the situation there right now.

That's on Obama.

The old chicken and the egg thing applies here. You do understand that right?

No it isn't.

It was an ongoing mission that the incoming President was supposed to manage. So far, he has failed. His claim was that we were leaving behind a stable and self-reliant country. VP Biden claimed it would be "One Of The Great Achievements Of This Administration" We know which came first. Obama's Iraq came second. Blame Bush all you want, but what we are seeing now is a result of Obama's actions in handling the job he was given.

I know you're an Obama hater and always have been, but this is such an unreasonable statement I'm not sure what to even do with it. The Obama administration had nothing to do with sending thousands of Americans to their unnecessary deaths, or creating a vacuum in the region because of it.

You are making some really outrageous claims. Where do you have the information that the U.S. "supplied" ISIS with weapons in Syria? And how exactly did we let our weapons fall into their hands? By leaving? Was it your goal to spend billions more in Iraq at the cost of American lives so the right wing narrative of Rumsfeld and Cheney be bolstered?

Lots of nonsense in your post.

Sorry DD. I do not hate Obama and gave him plenty of opportunities to sway my opinion of him as being unqualified and ill-prepared for the job as our President. I've never stated anything against him personally and actually think he's probably a good guy, just that he wasn't right for the job. No hate, nothing personal.

Now, if you don't think that any of the equipment that we supplied to the resistance in Syria made it's way into ISIS hands, and you don't realize that we could have prevented the fall of Mosul, which added to their stockpile of US weapons, I have to seriously begin to rethink your ability to rationally evaluate what is going on in the region. I have valued your insight in the past on many areas but I think you are either letting your biases get in the way of an honest evaluation or you are actually no longer close enough to things to form a realistic conclusion.

Lol, this is hilarious.

Please provide proof for this statement:

supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria

You are saying that we directly supplied them with weapons. Are you now saying you might not be correct? Back-peddle much?

Also I do not like this administration in the slightest, I just enjoy watching the lunatic right wingers flop around like fish when I prove them to be incorrect.

So you don't think ANY weapons that we sent to Syria went to ISIS fighters?

We were that good at weeding out the bad guys?

 

[MaxThreshold]

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Seriously?

Who the heck are you? The President? I realize you're in bed with him but I don't have to prove your inane comments.

You can't prove it, that's the problem.

I don't have to.

You can't

I don't have to prove wild, inane and outlandish statements. Are we going to do this all night?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pulling out of Iraq how and when we did, supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria and allowing our equipment to fall into their hands in Iraq is the reason for the situation there right now.

That's on Obama.

The old chicken and the egg thing applies here. You do understand that right?

No it isn't.

It was an ongoing mission that the incoming President was supposed to manage. So far, he has failed. His claim was that we were leaving behind a stable and self-reliant country. VP Biden claimed it would be "One Of The Great Achievements Of This Administration" We know which came first. Obama's Iraq came second. Blame Bush all you want, but what we are seeing now is a result of Obama's actions in handling the job he was given.

I know you're an Obama hater and always have been, but this is such an unreasonable statement I'm not sure what to even do with it. The Obama administration had nothing to do with sending thousands of Americans to their unnecessary deaths, or creating a vacuum in the region because of it.

You are making some really outrageous claims. Where do you have the information that the U.S. "supplied" ISIS with weapons in Syria? And how exactly did we let our weapons fall into their hands? By leaving? Was it your goal to spend billions more in Iraq at the cost of American lives so the right wing narrative of Rumsfeld and Cheney be bolstered?

Lots of nonsense in your post.

Sorry DD. I do not hate Obama and gave him plenty of opportunities to sway my opinion of him as being unqualified and ill-prepared for the job as our President. I've never stated anything against him personally and actually think he's probably a good guy, just that he wasn't right for the job. No hate, nothing personal.

Now, if you don't think that any of the equipment that we supplied to the resistance in Syria made it's way into ISIS hands, and you don't realize that we could have prevented the fall of Mosul, which added to their stockpile of US weapons, I have to seriously begin to rethink your ability to rationally evaluate what is going on in the region. I have valued your insight in the past on many areas but I think you are either letting your biases get in the way of an honest evaluation or you are actually no longer close enough to things to form a realistic conclusion.

Lol, this is hilarious.

Please provide proof for this statement:

supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria

You are saying that we directly supplied them with weapons. Are you now saying you might not be correct? Back-peddle much?

Also I do not like this administration in the slightest, I just enjoy watching the lunatic right wingers flop around like fish when I prove them to be incorrect.

So you don't think ANY weapons that we sent to Syria went to ISIS fighters?

We were that good at weeding out the bad guys?

You are the one that made the initial claim which I called you on. Don't you have the burden of proof here? Or is it my inability to rationalize with what is going on in the region still the impasse here?

 

[jamny]

Pulling out of Iraq how and when we did, supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria and allowing our equipment to fall into their hands in Iraq is the reason for the situation there right now.

That's on Obama.

The old chicken and the egg thing applies here. You do understand that right?

No it isn't.

It was an ongoing mission that the incoming President was supposed to manage. So far, he has failed. His claim was that we were leaving behind a stable and self-reliant country. VP Biden claimed it would be "One Of The Great Achievements Of This Administration" We know which came first. Obama's Iraq came second. Blame Bush all you want, but what we are seeing now is a result of Obama's actions in handling the job he was given.

I know you're an Obama hater and always have been, but this is such an unreasonable statement I'm not sure what to even do with it. The Obama administration had nothing to do with sending thousands of Americans to their unnecessary deaths, or creating a vacuum in the region because of it.

You are making some really outrageous claims. Where do you have the information that the U.S. "supplied" ISIS with weapons in Syria? And how exactly did we let our weapons fall into their hands? By leaving? Was it your goal to spend billions more in Iraq at the cost of American lives so the right wing narrative of Rumsfeld and Cheney be bolstered?

Lots of nonsense in your post.

Sorry DD. I do not hate Obama and gave him plenty of opportunities to sway my opinion of him as being unqualified and ill-prepared for the job as our President. I've never stated anything against him personally and actually think he's probably a good guy, just that he wasn't right for the job. No hate, nothing personal.

Now, if you don't think that any of the equipment that we supplied to the resistance in Syria made it's way into ISIS hands, and you don't realize that we could have prevented the fall of Mosul, which added to their stockpile of US weapons, I have to seriously begin to rethink your ability to rationally evaluate what is going on in the region. I have valued your insight in the past on many areas but I think you are either letting your biases get in the way of an honest evaluation or you are actually no longer close enough to things to form a realistic conclusion.

Lol, this is hilarious.

Please provide proof for this statement:

supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria

You are saying that we directly supplied them with weapons. Are you now saying you might not be correct? Back-peddle much?

Also I do not like this administration in the slightest, I just enjoy watching the lunatic right wingers flop around like fish when I prove them to be incorrect.

So you don't think ANY weapons that we sent to Syria went to ISIS fighters?

We were that good at weeding out the bad guys?

You are the one that made the initial claim which I called you on. Don't you have the burden of proof here? Or is it my inability to rationalize with what is going on in the region still the impasse here?

So no answer to the question?

 

[timschochet]

Jammy-

1. Some of the weapons we gave the Syrian rebels made it into the hands of ISIS.

2. not enough to make any difference.

That's according to all the sources I've read about this. If you have information to the contrary, please share it.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Pulling out of Iraq how and when we did, supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria and allowing our equipment to fall into their hands in Iraq is the reason for the situation there right now.

That's on Obama.

The old chicken and the egg thing applies here. You do understand that right?

No it isn't.

It was an ongoing mission that the incoming President was supposed to manage. So far, he has failed. His claim was that we were leaving behind a stable and self-reliant country. VP Biden claimed it would be "One Of The Great Achievements Of This Administration" We know which came first. Obama's Iraq came second. Blame Bush all you want, but what we are seeing now is a result of Obama's actions in handling the job he was given.

I know you're an Obama hater and always have been, but this is such an unreasonable statement I'm not sure what to even do with it. The Obama administration had nothing to do with sending thousands of Americans to their unnecessary deaths, or creating a vacuum in the region because of it.

You are making some really outrageous claims. Where do you have the information that the U.S. "supplied" ISIS with weapons in Syria? And how exactly did we let our weapons fall into their hands? By leaving? Was it your goal to spend billions more in Iraq at the cost of American lives so the right wing narrative of Rumsfeld and Cheney be bolstered?

Lots of nonsense in your post.

Sorry DD. I do not hate Obama and gave him plenty of opportunities to sway my opinion of him as being unqualified and ill-prepared for the job as our President. I've never stated anything against him personally and actually think he's probably a good guy, just that he wasn't right for the job. No hate, nothing personal.

Now, if you don't think that any of the equipment that we supplied to the resistance in Syria made it's way into ISIS hands, and you don't realize that we could have prevented the fall of Mosul, which added to their stockpile of US weapons, I have to seriously begin to rethink your ability to rationally evaluate what is going on in the region. I have valued your insight in the past on many areas but I think you are either letting your biases get in the way of an honest evaluation or you are actually no longer close enough to things to form a realistic conclusion.

Lol, this is hilarious.

Please provide proof for this statement:

supporting ISIS and supplying them with weapons in Syria

You are saying that we directly supplied them with weapons. Are you now saying you might not be correct? Back-peddle much?

Also I do not like this administration in the slightest, I just enjoy watching the lunatic right wingers flop around like fish when I prove them to be incorrect.

So you don't think ANY weapons that we sent to Syria went to ISIS fighters?

We were that good at weeding out the bad guys?

You are the one that made the initial claim which I called you on. Don't you have the burden of proof here? Or is it my inability to rationalize with what is going on in the region still the impasse here?

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

 

[jamny]

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

It's a strawman when I ask you to answer the question posed to you?

ok

 

[Doctor Detroit]

And for the record I think Jamny is a great poster and I agree with a lot of what he usually lays down. Just not this, so we talk it out.

 

[jamny]

Jammy-

1. Some of the weapons we gave the Syrian rebels made it into the hands of ISIS.

2. not enough to make any difference.

That's according to all the sources I've read about this. If you have information to the contrary, please share it.

How do you know #1 = #2?

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

It's a strawman when I ask you to answer the question posed to you?

ok

Again, I called your initial claim to you saying that Obama supplied ISIS with weapons. Since then you've been unable to backup your claims, creating a strawman.

So here we are.

 

[cosjobs]

And for the record I think Jamny is a great poster and I agree with a lot of what he usually lays down. Just not this, so we talk it out.

It is refreshing to hear some actual dialog from the other side. Jamny says more content in a few posts than max and mx have said in a decade

 

[timschochet]

Jammy-

1. Some of the weapons we gave the Syrian rebels made it into the hands of ISIS.

2. not enough to make any difference.

That's according to all the sources I've read about this. If you have information to the contrary, please share it.

How do you know #1 = #2?

i don't. Not for sure. But that's what I've read and seen on TV. My sources are the NY Times which had a lengthy article on this a few weeks back, and a state department guy on CNN responding to the Hillary interview (who never made this claim, BTW). Obviously based on your assertion, you believe the opposite. What are your sources please?

 

[Fennis]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

So how long would you have kept a large military presence in Iraq?

I don't have the inside knowledge to provide an answer. The Obama Administration seems to have felt that we were there long enough. It was a mistake. He was wrong. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to admit it. We ####ed up again.

I think we should all be crystal clear: The biggest mistake for the US in regards to Iraq was staying as long as the US did.

It was a bigger mistake than the invasion itself.

 

[MaxThreshold]

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

It's a strawman when I ask you to answer the question posed to you?

ok

Again, I called your initial claim to you saying that Obama supplied ISIS with weapons. Since then you've been unable to backup your claims, creating a strawman.

So here we are.

Maybe you should back up your own claims before asking others to back up theirs:

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama
Racist, moronic rants against Obama
Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Y'know, as a show of faith that you actually practice what you preach.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

It's a strawman when I ask you to answer the question posed to you?

ok

Again, I called your initial claim to you saying that Obama supplied ISIS with weapons. Since then you've been unable to backup your claims, creating a strawman.

So here we are.

Maybe you should back up your own claims before asking others to back up theirs:

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama
Racist, moronic rants against Obama
Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Y'know, as a show of faith that you actually practice what you preach.

This is an adult conversation, you should probably leave now before your feelings get hurt.

 

[MaxThreshold]

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

It's a strawman when I ask you to answer the question posed to you?

ok

Again, I called your initial claim to you saying that Obama supplied ISIS with weapons. Since then you've been unable to backup your claims, creating a strawman.

So here we are.

Maybe you should back up your own claims before asking others to back up theirs:

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama
Racist, moronic rants against Obama
Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Y'know, as a show of faith that you actually practice what you preach.

This is an adult conversation, you should probably leave now before your feelings get hurt.

So you CAN'T prove them? I accept your apology.

 

[Josie Maran]

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

It's a strawman when I ask you to answer the question posed to you?

ok

Again, I called your initial claim to you saying that Obama supplied ISIS with weapons. Since then you've been unable to backup your claims, creating a strawman.

So here we are.

Maybe you should back up your own claims before asking others to back up theirs:

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama
Racist, moronic rants against Obama
Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Y'know, as a show of faith that you actually practice what you preach.

This is an adult conversation, you should probably leave now before your feelings get hurt.

So you CAN'T prove them? I accept your apology.

I think I just did.

 

[timschochet]

yeah, ok...keep giving Obama a pass on what's happening in Iraq. I'm not going to bother trying to convince you otherwise. Bush ####ed up and now Obama ####ed it up more. I'm not sure how anyone can deny that.

So how long would you have kept a large military presence in Iraq?

I don't have the inside knowledge to provide an answer. The Obama Administration seems to have felt that we were there long enough. It was a mistake. He was wrong. That's all I'm saying. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to admit it. We ####ed up again.

I think we should all be crystal clear: The biggest mistake for the US in regards to Iraq was staying as long as the US did.

It was a bigger mistake than the invasion itself.

Disagree with this. After the invasion we needed to stay there, probably longer than we did. We left too early, and that's on Obama IMO. We should have put more pressure on the govt in Baghdad to relax their mistreatment of Sunnis both before and after we left. That is on both Bush and Obama.

But most importantly we should have followed Biden's advice and decentralized Iraq, and thrown our support behind the Kurds. By the time Obama came in it was too late for this idea. So this is on Bush.

 

[MaxThreshold]

So no answer to the question?

Nice strawman here, well played.

It's a strawman when I ask you to answer the question posed to you?

ok

Again, I called your initial claim to you saying that Obama supplied ISIS with weapons. Since then you've been unable to backup your claims, creating a strawman.

So here we are.

Maybe you should back up your own claims before asking others to back up theirs:

You have like three different posts at FBG, let's cover them:

The Packers got cheated, probably by Obama
Racist, moronic rants against Obama
Moronic rants against anyone who disagrees with your original moronic rants

Pretty spot on right?

Those are 100% of your posts. Prove me wrong.

Y'know, as a show of faith that you actually practice what you preach.

This is an adult conversation, you should probably leave now before your feelings get hurt.

So you CAN'T prove them? I accept your apology.

I think I just did.

Your first apology was enough. You don't have to apologize again.