Obesity and Ozempic and more (3 Viewers)

[Sparky Polastri]

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

Drop the snarky trolling shots.

This has the potential to be a good discussion without that kind of stuff.

It's a direct question. You'd rather I assume than ask? Its pretty sad when actual questions are considered "trolling shots" around here. It's pretty gross actually. I honestly want to know who's worth engaging and who isn't.

 

[Joe Bryant]

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

Drop the snarky trolling shots.

This has the potential to be a good discussion without that kind of stuff.

It's a direct question. You'd rather I assume than ask? Its pretty sad when actual questions are considered "trolling shots" around here. It's pretty gross actually. I honestly want to know who's worth engaging and who isn't.

No thanks. Drop the snarky shots.

 

[rockaction]

You ever been to Nebraska? You can go a long way without anywhere to walk to. Sure you can just walk a long *** country road but it helps to stop and have stuff to look at.

I've been to Omaha several times. In the winter and the summer. I've also been to 43 other states and 51 countries.

My larger point here is that obesity epidemics are obviously cultural to some degree. I can expand on this if people care.

I've been asking. I care. I don't think you can make the complete argument you were originally making. You can duck it all you want.

I'm here.

Until then, you and I both know what I think of your argument.

You also know what I think about other things.

Go ahead. Make your argument.

 

[AAABatteries]

if obesity largely isn't a choice(which I obviously disagree with), why is everybody in San Diego in great shape, and when I visit Nebraska everybody looks like they ate the goodyear blimp?

Do people in San Diego have awesome choices that Nebraskans don't have and can't overcome?

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

You guys are giving great reasons but masking the part where he just made up “numbers”.

 

[Dr. Manhattan]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Here's an article and the paper contained in the article I had posted in another thread. I thought it painted an interesting picture on why we see an increased obesity rate in the developed world. It really shouldn't be surprising nor should a solution be a mystery (there can be a variety of reasons why this is challenging, but processed foods are making us sick). What we eat matters a lot and you can't out exercise it.

MSN

https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2420902122

Eta. This goes unread every time it's posted lol. Probably answers a lot of the questions asked and argued after. Though the questioning and arguing are probably the point....

 

[Mitchie]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

 

[Dr. Manhattan]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

Genuinely curious why you think otherwise. Do you have any concept of how many calories are burned from a 1 hour workout?\

Is there a reason you are choosing to misinterpret "very small impact"? I feel like people who behave like this are just trying to rationalize an inability to comprehend the point, which is that exercise may burn a hundred or so calories whereas diet choices can offset several hundred to a thousand a day.

 

[Northern Voice]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

It's really hard to exercise enough to offset a bad diet. If you're consuming 3500 calories in a day and you walk 10k steps, that's maybe 400 excess calories you've taken off via exercise. A lot of people vastly overestimate how many calories they've burned via exercise (machines are brutal for this) or get the calculation wrong on how many of those are above the base rate of calories burned. And then more people think because they exercised, they can eat more that day which undoes the progress.

Where if you just eat 500 fewer calories, the calculation is a lot simpler.

Of course diet and exercise are both important and both are paths to finding a calorie deficit but most people have more success, strictly for weight loss, by focussing on the diet side.

I know for myself, I play squash 3x a week and do strength training alongside a bit of cardio 2-3x a week but when I was actively trying to lose weight, that didn't matter if I wasn't carefully tracking calories as well.

Again, strictly for weight loss. For overall health, I think the exercise factor is extremely important.

 

[Mitchie]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

It's really hard to exercise enough to offset a bad diet. If you're consuming 3500 calories in a day and you walk 10k steps, that's maybe 400 excess calories you've taken off via exercise. A lot of people vastly overestimate how many calories they've burned via exercise (machines are brutal for this) or get the calculation wrong on how many of those are above the base rate of calories burned. And then more people think because they exercised, they can eat more that day which undoes the progress.

Where if you just eat 500 fewer calories, the calculation is a lot simpler.

Of course diet and exercise are both important and both are paths to finding a calorie deficit but most people have more success, strictly for weight loss, by focussing on the diet side.

I know for myself, I play squash 3x a week and do strength training alongside a bit of cardio 2-3x a week but when I was actively trying to lose weight, that didn't matter if I wasn't carefully tracking calories as well.

Again, strictly for weight loss. For overall health, I think the exercise factor is extremely important.

Yeah I agree, just saying exercise impact on weight loss is invisible is quite misleading. Also think can vary by how much overweight you are, if you're 20 pounds overweight maybe won't have a huge impact but if you're 100 pounds overweight can have bigger impact. I'm sure some people will argue with that statement saying math is math or something but exercise can impact metabolism in the long term not just the calorie in, calories out calculation.

 

[Northern Voice]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

It's really hard to exercise enough to offset a bad diet. If you're consuming 3500 calories in a day and you walk 10k steps, that's maybe 400 excess calories you've taken off via exercise. A lot of people vastly overestimate how many calories they've burned via exercise (machines are brutal for this) or get the calculation wrong on how many of those are above the base rate of calories burned. And then more people think because they exercised, they can eat more that day which undoes the progress.

Where if you just eat 500 fewer calories, the calculation is a lot simpler.

Of course diet and exercise are both important and both are paths to finding a calorie deficit but most people have more success, strictly for weight loss, by focussing on the diet side.

I know for myself, I play squash 3x a week and do strength training alongside a bit of cardio 2-3x a week but when I was actively trying to lose weight, that didn't matter if I wasn't carefully tracking calories as well.

Again, strictly for weight loss. For overall health, I think the exercise factor is extremely important.

Yeah I agree, just saying exercise impact on weight loss is invisible is quite misleading. Also think can vary by how much overweight you are, if you're 20 pounds overweight maybe won't have a huge impact but if you're 100 pounds overweight can have bigger impact. I'm sure some people will argue with that statement saying math is math or something but exercise can impact metabolism in the long term not just the calorie in, calories out calculation.

No it's absolutely true. If you're 100 lbs overweight, your base metabolic rate will be higher and even a couple hundred extra calories burned through exercise should make an impact.

It's ultimately all a math equation but again, for the diet side, it's a lot easier to be precise on exactly what you're consuming by weighing out your foods etc... where the calculations for exercise are a lot more fuzzy for what you're burning in any given session. It's a lot of guesstimating.

I treated it like a game with weekly targets for calories consumed (15400), steps taken (77000), strength training sessions (3) and squash matches (2).

This let me have cheat days if I needed to but over the 7 day stretch held me accountable. I still generally strive for these but I'm not tracking calories and steps as regularly because while I probably still have 10 lbs to lose, I'm generally happy where I am. If I start to go off the rails a bit, I just rededicate before it gets out of hand.

 

[Dr. Manhattan]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

It's really hard to exercise enough to offset a bad diet. If you're consuming 3500 calories in a day and you walk 10k steps, that's maybe 400 excess calories you've taken off via exercise. A lot of people vastly overestimate how many calories they've burned via exercise (machines are brutal for this) or get the calculation wrong on how many of those are above the base rate of calories burned. And then more people think because they exercised, they can eat more that day which undoes the progress.

Where if you just eat 500 fewer calories, the calculation is a lot simpler.

Of course diet and exercise are both important and both are paths to finding a calorie deficit but most people have more success, strictly for weight loss, by focussing on the diet side.

I know for myself, I play squash 3x a week and do strength training alongside a bit of cardio 2-3x a week but when I was actively trying to lose weight, that didn't matter if I wasn't carefully tracking calories as well.

Again, strictly for weight loss. For overall health, I think the exercise factor is extremely important.

Yeah I agree, just saying exercise impact on weight loss is invisible is quite misleading. Also think can vary by how much overweight you are, if you're 20 pounds overweight maybe won't have a huge impact but if you're 100 pounds overweight can have bigger impact. I'm sure some people will argue with that statement saying math is math or something but exercise can impact metabolism in the long term not just the calorie in, calories out calculation.

Who said invisible? I didn't. Did someone else? Or are you making up a straw man?

I said it's very small impact. Which it is. How much of the calories burned by exercise are offset by how hungry you are afterwards? Dietary choices are undeniably more impactful than exercise when it comes to weight loss. Hard stop.

 

[3C's]

Do you have any concept of how many calories are burned from a 1 hour workout?\

My 20 mile bike ride is about 1k calories burned.

 

[Dr. Manhattan]

Do you have any concept of how many calories are burned from a 1 hour workout?\

My 20 mile bike ride is about 1k calories burned.

How often do you do that and how many people do you think do this?

 

[FarFromHome]

You ever been to Nebraska? You can go a long way without anywhere to walk to. Sure you can just walk a long *** country road but it helps to stop and have stuff to look at.

I've been to Omaha several times. In the winter and the summer. I've also been to 43 other states and 51 countries.

My larger point here is that obesity epidemics are obviously cultural to some degree. I can expand on this if people care.

I've been asking. I care. I don't think you can make the complete argument you were originally making. You can duck it all you want.

I'm here.

Until then, you and I both know what I think of your argument.

You also know what I think about other things.

Go ahead. Make your argument.

It's an interesting topic. Is obesity a cultural thing? Hmmm. As someone who has lived all over the world I can say without question the people are the fattest where I currently live in the south. Ha ha. It's not science though. In the south, you eat biscuits while you wait for your deep fried food and wash it down with half sweet tea half sugar. Ha ha

 

[TripItUp]

It's an interesting topic. Is obesity a cultural thing? Hmmm. As someone who has lived all over the world I can say without question the people are the fattest where I currently live in the south. Ha ha. It's not science though. In the south, you eat biscuits while you wait for your deep fried food and wash it down with half sweet tea half sugar. Ha ha

eating habits and physical activity habits are absolutely cultural.

Living in Alabama is not the same as living in Kyoto from a diet and exercise perspective. I don't understand why somebody would take offense to that truth.

 

[massraider]

It's an interesting topic. Is obesity a cultural thing?

you know. Everyone knows.

You know the people walking around in LA and San Diego are more fit than people in New Orleans or Jackson Mississippi. They eat better and work out more. End of story. And then you go to the rural parts of Cali and hey look at that, a higher number of obese people. What a mystery.

No idea why Trip would need to expand on this, when this is pretty much a self-evident fact. People in New Orleans eat like they have a death wish.

 

[AAABatteries]

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Most of this conversation is people talking past each other - I won’t speak for Cappy but I think your statement above is true as well as just the idea that someone who works out a bunch is typically already health conscience and will be willing to also eat healthy. We’ve been discussing for years around here on what the percent of weight loss is diet vs. exercise. Over the years it seems like the consensus is diet is main factor in weight loss and exercise is more for health.

 

[AAABatteries]

It's an interesting topic. Is obesity a cultural thing?

you know. Everyone knows.

You know the people walking around in LA and San Diego are more fit than people in New Orleans or Jackson Mississippi. They eat better and work out more. End of story. And then you go to the rural parts of Cali and hey look at that, a higher number of obese people. What a mystery.

No idea why Trip would need to expand on this, when this is pretty much a self-evident fact. People in New Orleans eat like they have a death wish.

I see a key difference between “obesity is a choice” and “obesity is a cultural thing”. Nobody gets to choose where they are born, their genes, their family, their ethnicity, etc. Those things are greatly impactful on a person’s individual health. So for me, it follows that no, obesity isn’t a choice. Sure, people can and do overcome those factors but it’s not as easy as choosing the color of your car or what outfit to wear.

 

[massraider]

I see a key difference between “obesity is a choice” and “obesity is a cultural thing”. Nobody gets to choose where they are born, their genes, their family, their ethnicity, etc. Those things are greatly impactful on a person’s individual health. So for me, it follows that no, obesity isn’t a choice. Sure, people can and do overcome those factors but it’s not as easy as choosing the color of your car or what outfit to wear.

I just made an observation about different areas of our country, I didn't say obesity was a choice, and I sure didn't say overcoming those factors was easy.

Saying 'obesity is a choice' is dumb, IMO, because then the discussion turns to all the times obesity is NOT a choice, of which there are many. Now Trip is in a semantics argument, instead of making his point, which is a good one.

The fact is, every day, millions of Americans make the CHOICE to stack absolute garbage in their cart at the grocery store. That's undeniable. That's a choice. Nothing to do with their genes.

 

[Mitchie]

It's an interesting topic. Is obesity a cultural thing?

you know. Everyone knows.

You know the people walking around in LA and San Diego are more fit than people in New Orleans or Jackson Mississippi. They eat better and work out more. End of story. And then you go to the rural parts of Cali and hey look at that, a higher number of obese people. What a mystery.

No idea why Trip would need to expand on this, when this is pretty much a self-evident fact. People in New Orleans eat like they have a death wish.

I see a key difference between “obesity is a choice” and “obesity is a cultural thing”. Nobody gets to choose where they are born, their genes, their family, their ethnicity, etc. Those things are greatly impactful on a person’s individual health. So for me, it follows that no, obesity isn’t a choice. Sure, people can and do overcome those factors but it’s not as easy as choosing the color of your car or what outfit to wear.

I'd push back on that somewhat as the factors you mention are certainly impactful but on the other hand people have the choice of what to eat and how often to exercise which together have a bigger impact than genes imo. Now I'll acknowledge economics can play a role as well as people who are overworked and/or have financial issues are going to have a harder time working out on a regular basis and eating healthier. Both things are possible under these circumstances and people do it but can be much more difficult. And this is probably a big part of the reason why people are healthier in LA and San Diego vs. New Orleans and Mississippi. So I wouldn't make the blanket statement that obesity is a choice, but would say it's more of a choice for many people than some people are willing to acknowledge.

 

[Max Power]

I think it boils down to if someone believes the lack of self control is a choice. That discussion can really get into the weeds on someone's psychological makeup.

People know which foods they eat are bad for them, but its harder for some to say no than others.

I have an addictive personality. Its not all substance abuse or drinking. It extends to my hobbies as well. I'm lucky food isnt one of those things for me. That said, taking control of my decisions is my choice.

 

[AAABatteries]

I see a key difference between “obesity is a choice” and “obesity is a cultural thing”. Nobody gets to choose where they are born, their genes, their family, their ethnicity, etc. Those things are greatly impactful on a person’s individual health. So for me, it follows that no, obesity isn’t a choice. Sure, people can and do overcome those factors but it’s not as easy as choosing the color of your car or what outfit to wear.

I just made an observation about different areas of our country, I didn't say obesity was a choice, and I sure didn't say overcoming those factors was easy.

Saying 'obesity is a choice' is dumb, IMO, because then the discussion turns to all the times obesity is NOT a choice, of which there are many. Now Trip is in a semantics argument, instead of making his point, which is a good one.

The fact is, every day, millions of Americans make the CHOICE to stack absolute garbage in their cart at the grocery store. That's undeniable. That's a choice. Nothing to do with their genes.

Just to be clear - that was Trip’s position and why he’s getting pushback. Didn’t mean to suggest that was your position.

 

[AAABatteries]

It's an interesting topic. Is obesity a cultural thing?

you know. Everyone knows.

You know the people walking around in LA and San Diego are more fit than people in New Orleans or Jackson Mississippi. They eat better and work out more. End of story. And then you go to the rural parts of Cali and hey look at that, a higher number of obese people. What a mystery.

No idea why Trip would need to expand on this, when this is pretty much a self-evident fact. People in New Orleans eat like they have a death wish.

I see a key difference between “obesity is a choice” and “obesity is a cultural thing”. Nobody gets to choose where they are born, their genes, their family, their ethnicity, etc. Those things are greatly impactful on a person’s individual health. So for me, it follows that no, obesity isn’t a choice. Sure, people can and do overcome those factors but it’s not as easy as choosing the color of your car or what outfit to wear.

I'd push back on that somewhat as the factors you mention are certainly impactful but on the other hand people have the choice of what to eat and how often to exercise which together have a bigger impact than genes imo. Now I'll acknowledge economics can play a role as well as people who are overworked and/or have financial issues are going to have a harder time working out on a regular basis and eating healthier. Both things are possible under these circumstances and people do it but can be much more difficult. And this is probably a big part of the reason why people are healthier in LA and San Diego vs. New Orleans and Mississippi. So I wouldn't make the blanket statement that obesity is a choice, but would say it's more of a choice for many people than some people are willing to acknowledge.

Yep, I’m not denying (and haven’t seen anybody flatly denying) that there’s a huge component of personal responsibility with obesity. These are complex situations and saying obesity is a choice, which is exactly what he said, ignores all the other factors involved.

 

[AAABatteries]

The fact is, every day, millions of Americans make the CHOICE to stack absolute garbage in their cart at the grocery store. That's undeniable. That's a choice. Nothing to do with their genes.

But it could have to do with mental health and addiction.

 

[AAABatteries]

Brain dopamine and obesity - PubMed

The availability of dopamine D2 receptor was decreased in obese individuals in proportion to their BMI. Dopamine modulates motivation and reward circuits and hence dopamine deficiency in obese individuals may perpetuate pathological eating as a means to compensate for decreased activation of...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Dopamine and Obesity.

 

[massraider]

The fact is, every day, millions of Americans make the CHOICE to stack absolute garbage in their cart at the grocery store. That's undeniable. That's a choice. Nothing to do with their genes.

But it could have to do with mental health and addiction.

I think addiction has a lot to do with it. Plenty of evidence of the addictive nature of the garbage we eat.

Kicking addictions is NOT easy, let's stipulate that, first of all.

Having acknowledged that, a concerned society promotes lifestyle changes, and hard work with other addictions. If a heroin addict makes no changes to their life, and constantly makes the point that kicking this addiction is not easy, their family would say they were making excuses.

We don't tell other addicts to be proud of themselves, and the way they behave. We don't reinforce addictions at family gatherings by giving addicts drugs. Acknowledging that it is an addiction, to me, brings up a bunch of questions about why this addiction gets the gentle treatment compared to any other addiction.

 

[Brunell4MVP]

It's a fairly simple cycle ...

1. raised in a place a) mostly car dependent (ie south, native reservation, etc) b) with limited access to quality healthy food choices c) brought up in an environment where you are fed fried, fatty and processed foods and d) with limited funds to overcome that.

I think some people fail to understand b. When you go to a small southern/midwestern town or native reservation, you could be as much as 45 minutes from a real grocery store. So the fruits and veggies are brown and old, the steak is close to expired, and the cheap option is the plethora of hostess cakes that border the checkout aisle.

I also think people fail to understand how poor some of these places are. Sure some rural people have farms and good jobs (doctor, pharmacy, lawyer, etc) and can afford to healthier. But so many do not.

From all that a person gets in the habit of eating poorly, and like any addiction it's tough to break out of.

So assuming you do get to a bette/different place in your life than your family was, maybe you can break out of the habit. Maybe not. Maybe you need help, like GLP. But to think someone is not trying or has no willpower, well they would need a hell of a lot more of it than someone that grew up in San Fran with money.

The reason this gets more gentle treatment is most drug addicts didn't get addicted at age 3 with their parents feeding them ****ty food. They got addicted making a choice in their teens or even later. One is a choice that requires the ability to overcome other peoples errors in how you were raised. The other, usually, is a choice that requires the ability to overcome your own poor decision

Anyway ... 270 to 197. Quite happy now.


*****

Joe edit:
Congrats on the journey.
Edited to remove the name calling.

 

[TripItUp]

you know. Everyone knows.

You know the people walking around in LA and San Diego are more fit than people in New Orleans or Jackson Mississippi. They eat better and work out more. End of story. And then you go to the rural parts of Cali and hey look at that, a higher number of obese people. What a mystery.

No idea why Trip would need to expand on this, when this is pretty much a self-evident fact. People in New Orleans eat like they have a death wish.

 

[TripItUp]

It's a fairly simple cycle ...

1. raised in a place a) mostly car dependent (ie south, native reservation, etc) b) with limited access to quality healthy food choices c) brought up in an environment where you are fed fried, fatty and processed foods and d) with limited funds to overcome that.

what percentage of Americans don't have access to lean meats, fruits and vegetables?

2% ?


We're talking about the average American here that has access to their local supermarket which obviously has fruits and vegetables, but also has doritos and twinkies.

 

[TripItUp]

But it could have to do with mental health and addiction.

So the United States has a mental health and addiction issue, that San Diego, Japan, Spain and Italy don't have.


Not buying it.

 

[gianmarco]

It's a fairly simple cycle ...

1. raised in a place a) mostly car dependent (ie south, native reservation, etc) b) with limited access to quality healthy food choices c) brought up in an environment where you are fed fried, fatty and processed foods and d) with limited funds to overcome that.

I think some people fail to understand b. When you go to a small southern/midwestern town or native reservation, you could be as much as 45 minutes from a real grocery store. So the fruits and veggies are brown and old, the steak is close to expired, and the cheap option is the plethora of hostess cakes that border the checkout aisle.

I also think people fail to understand how poor some of these places are. Sure some rural people have farms and good jobs (doctor, pharmacy, lawyer, etc) and can afford to healthier. But so many do not.

From all that a person gets in the habit of eating poorly, and like any addiction it's tough to break out of.

So assuming you do get to a bette/different place in your life than your family was, maybe you can break out of the habit. Maybe not. Maybe you need help, like GLP. But to think someone is not trying or has no willpower, well they would need a hell of a lot more of it than someone that grew up in San Fran with money.

The reason this gets more gentle treatment is most drug addicts didn't get addicted at age 3 with their parents feeding them ****ty food. They got addicted making a choice in their teens or even later. One is a choice that requires the ability to overcome other peoples errors in how you were raised. The other, usually, is a choice that requires the ability to overcome your own poor decision

Anyway ... 270 to 197. Quite happy now.

Nothing easy about it. Congratulations.

 

[culdeus]

Do you have any concept of how many calories are burned from a 1 hour workout?\

My 20 mile bike ride is about 1k calories burned.

I seriously doubt this.

 

[culdeus]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

A 30 minute workout in a gym for most people is 150-200 cal. A rounding error.

Workout for health and don't consider those calories for your weight loss plan unless you plan to quit in maintenanc

 

[Mitchie]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

A 30 minute workout in a gym for most people is 150-200 cal. A rounding error.

Workout for health and don't consider those calories for your weight loss plan unless you plan to quit in maintenanc

Exercise impacts metabolism so it's not just the calories you lose in the 30 minutes. Also increasing intensity of workouts will help burn more calories, your numbers seem low. But in any event not arguing diet isn't more important, just that exercise is an important factor also and people who ignore it are making a mistake.

 

[3C's]

Do you have any concept of how many calories are burned from a 1 hour workout?\

My 20 mile bike ride is about 1k calories burned.

I seriously doubt this.

Don't care if you do.

 

[3C's]

Do you have any concept of how many calories are burned from a 1 hour workout?\

My 20 mile bike ride is about 1k calories burned.

How often do you do that and how many people do you think do this?

Twice a week, also rowing twice a week for an hour. Weights/pullups/pushups with elliptical twice a week. Walk every day. Probably not many.

 

[Capella]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

A 30 minute workout in a gym for most people is 150-200 cal. A rounding error.

Workout for health and don't consider those calories for your weight loss plan unless you plan to quit in maintenanc

Well that’s not all it does but if you simply do that you are burning off 450 calories a week or 23000 a year. That could be between 6-7 pourns a year. That’s not nothing.

 

[Dr. Manhattan]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

A 30 minute workout in a gym for most people is 150-200 cal. A rounding error.

Workout for health and don't consider those calories for your weight loss plan unless you plan to quit in maintenanc

Well that’s not all it does but if you simply do that you are burning off 450 calories a week or 23000 a year. That could be between 6-7 pourns a year. That’s not nothing.

Ok? With a proper diet you can lose 6-7 lbs a month depending on how overweight you are. The point isn't that you shouldn't exercise, the point is you shouldn't rely on exercise to achieve weight goals.

 

[Capella]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

A 30 minute workout in a gym for most people is 150-200 cal. A rounding error.

Workout for health and don't consider those calories for your weight loss plan unless you plan to quit in maintenanc

Well that’s not all it does but if you simply do that you are burning off 450 calories a week or 23000 a year. That could be between 6-7 pourns a year. That’s not nothing.

Ok? With a proper diet you can lose 6-7 lbs a month depending on how overweight you are. The point isn't that you shouldn't exercise, the point is you shouldn't rely on exercise to achieve weight goals.

I don’t believe I ever said you should. I don’t even know what we are arguing here. Healthy diet is good. Exercise is good. Those two don’t conflict with each other.

 

[Dr. Manhattan]

Same reason there’s not many fat people in NYC. You’re outside and walking all the time.

seems like a choice everybody has...I mean, maybe you can't walk in a blizzard, but does all of Nebraska stop walking/exercising for the entire winter?

Also, isn't obesity more about what you eat than exercise?

obesity is about diet AND exercise.

I can't tell if this stuff is trolling or just the standard results from "do your own research" approach we see far to often, so I'll just ask. Which is it?

I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight. I don’t even know what you’re upset about.

Sure, but what is the causality here? Exercise has a very very small impact on weight loss when compared to diet. Almost invisible.

And yet, to your point, we see people who exercise often are fit. Are you sure that isn't a bit of a fallacy, Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

Perhaps it's the type of person who can commit to a strict exercise regimen is the same type of person who can commit to a strict diet.

Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise.

A 30 minute workout in a gym for most people is 150-200 cal. A rounding error.

Workout for health and don't consider those calories for your weight loss plan unless you plan to quit in maintenanc

Well that’s not all it does but if you simply do that you are burning off 450 calories a week or 23000 a year. That could be between 6-7 pourns a year. That’s not nothing.

Ok? With a proper diet you can lose 6-7 lbs a month depending on how overweight you are. The point isn't that you shouldn't exercise, the point is you shouldn't rely on exercise to achieve weight goals.

I don’t believe I ever said you should. I don’t even know what we are arguing here. Healthy diet is good. Exercise is good. Those two don’t conflict with each other.

I think it's a pretty clear conversation.

I replied to this:
"I mean I think it’s safe to say if you exercise a decent amount you’re very less likely to be overweight."

Simply stating exercise alone has a very small impact on whether or not you are overweight. This isn't debatable. Yet here we are, debating it.

What you and others appear to be doing is creating a straw men and attacking that, then act confused when people point back to the actual argument .

Like this person: "Genuinely curious where people get ideas like this, exercise burns calories, fewer calories leads to less weight. Feel like people who deny this are just trying to rationalize not wanting to exercise."

Ok? What on earth does that have to do with the statement "Exercise has a verry very small impact on weight loss"

He's basically screaming "EXERCISE HAS A SMALL IMPACT ON WEIGHT LOSS! YOU ARE WRONG!" and is completely ignoring 95% of the statement.

You talk about burning 450 calories a week but what is that compared to a 450 calorie deficit each day by diet? The point remains unchallenged, exercise has MUCH less of an impact than diet.

 

[Northern Voice]

The reason this gets more gentle treatment is most drug addicts didn't get addicted at age 3 with their parents feeding them ****ty food. They got addicted making a choice in their teens or even later. One is a choice that requires the ability to overcome other peoples errors in how you were raised. The other, usually, is a choice that requires the ability to overcome your own poor decision

I'd probably push back on this one. Environment and how/where a person is raised contributes a lot to drug, alcohol addiction as well.

 

[Northern Voice]

But it could have to do with mental health and addiction.

So the United States has a mental health and addiction issue, that San Diego, Japan, Spain and Italy don't have.


Not buying it.

I mean...

 

[Max Power]

Ozempic, Wegovy to Offer Half-Price Weight Loss Drugs at Costco​

$500 for a 4-week supply. This is cheaper than some insurance coverage.

Ozempic, Wegovy to Offer Half-Price Weight Loss Drugs at Costco

Novo Nordisk is partnering with Costco to offer its members Wegovy and Ozempic for about half the price when customers pay out of pocket. NBC’s Anne Thompson reports for TODAY.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Mitchie]

Ozempic, Wegovy to Offer Half-Price Weight Loss Drugs at Costco​

$500 for a 4-week supply. This is cheaper than some insurance coverage.

Ozempic, Wegovy to Offer Half-Price Weight Loss Drugs at Costco

Novo Nordisk is partnering with Costco to offer its members Wegovy and Ozempic for about half the price when customers pay out of pocket. NBC’s Anne Thompson reports for TODAY.

www.yahoo.com

Damn, that's still 6.5K per year

 

[gianmarco]

Ozempic, Wegovy to Offer Half-Price Weight Loss Drugs at Costco​

$500 for a 4-week supply. This is cheaper than some insurance coverage.

Ozempic, Wegovy to Offer Half-Price Weight Loss Drugs at Costco

Novo Nordisk is partnering with Costco to offer its members Wegovy and Ozempic for about half the price when customers pay out of pocket. NBC’s Anne Thompson reports for TODAY.

www.yahoo.com

Damn, that's still 6.5K per year

In the end, still probably saves people money in food consumed, medical problems/visits/medications avoided, etc.

 

[Max Power]

A pill option with promising results.

MSN

A GLP-1 drug called orforglipron—taken in pill form once a day—has been shown to help with “significant” weight loss in people with obesity.

In a multinational trial of around 3,000 adults, a 72-week treatment with orforglipron led to reductions in body weight of up to 11.2 percent depending on the dose, with side effects similar to other GLP-1 drugs.

Orforglipron works on the same receptor as semaglutide (licensed for diabetes under the name Ozempic and for weight loss under Wegovy).

But unlike those drugs, which in pill form have restrictions around the timing of meals and the amount of water you can drink, orforglipron can be taken without restrictions on food or water intake.

“After 72 weeks of treatment, all the patients in the three orforglipron groups had a significant and clinically meaningful dose-dependent reduction in body weight,” the authors said in a statement.

Orforglipron is a small-molecule, oral glucagon-like peptide-1 (GLP-1) receptor agonist. “This pill can be easily made, administered and distributed,” he added.

In the double-blind trial, a total of 3,127 patients with obesity but not diabetes in the USA, China, Brazil, India, Japan, South Korea, Spain, Slovakia and Taiwan underwent randomization.

The authors examined the safety and efficacy of once-daily orforglipron at doses of 6, 12 or 36 mg, compared with a placebo group, alongside a healthy diet and physical activity for 72 weeks.

The average change in body weight from baseline to week 72 was a 7.5 percent reduction with 6mg of orforglipron, 8.4 percent with 12mg of orforglipron and 11.2 percent with 36mg of orforglipron, as compared with a 2.1 percent reduction among the placebo group.

For those patients in the orforglipron 36mg group, 54.6 percent had a reduction of 10 percent or more of body weight, 36 percent had a reduction of 15 percent or more and 18.4 percent had a reduction of 20 percent or more, compared with 12.9 percent, 5.9 percent and 2.8 percent of the patients, respectively, for the placebo.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

MSN

Article from the WaPo about microdosing GLP-1's

And away we go

Microdosing GLP-1 for Weight Loss | Noom Microdose GLP-1 Rx Program

Get started with GLP-1s through Noom Microdose GLP‑1Rx Program, designed to begin at the lowest effective dose. Minimal side effects, expert coaching, and plans starting at $119.

www.noom.com

 

[Captain Cranks]

Studies show that weight training is better than cardio for burning fat.

 

[InDitkaWeTrust]

MSN

Article from the WaPo about microdosing GLP-1's

And away we go

Microdosing GLP-1 for Weight Loss | Noom Microdose GLP-1 Rx Program

Get started with GLP-1s through Noom Microdose GLP‑1Rx Program, designed to begin at the lowest effective dose. Minimal side effects, expert coaching, and plans starting at $119.

www.noom.com

I saw a commercial last night from Noom about microdosing GLP-1. It was all happy and sing songy and didn't really talk about what GLP-1 was, just that it helped push through plateaus in weight loss. Personally, I think the whole telemedicine thing with tons of marketing is doing a disservice to the US consumer. A 15 minute video/audio call with a 'provider' just doesn't seem adequate to gauge the risks of any prescription drug. And having a weight loss company like Noom (similar to weight watchers) just spawn a medical branch for the sole purpose of dispensing these drugs seems contrary to public health goals. Don't even get me started on the lack of evidence based medicine surrounding microdosing of these drugs...