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Observations from Bengals camp (1 Viewer)

Jene Bramel

Footballguy
John Norton and I went to Bengals camp tonight to see what was happening with our troubled home team. Here are the offensive highlights. If you're interested in the defensive stuff, check out my post in the IDP Forum, which includes an interesting exchange I had with Brandon Johnson in which he probably wanted to call me a stupid idiot.

Anywho, here's the offensive nuggets we were able to glean.

1. Chad Johnson is a goofball. He comes out five minutes late, skipping the stretches and walking right up to Marvin Lewis to BS. He's the only guy in white shoes and sweat pants. Everyone else is in shorts. He then goes down with the offensive line and does pushups while they stretch. He races Carson Palmer across the field during warmup sprints with the QBs, who also came out late. Then, he proceeds to catch everything thrown his way all night long, before skipping some first team reps to escort a fan from the stands around the huddle.

2. No T.J., no Rudi. Both resting minor hamstring problems. No Levi Jones either.

3. Eric Ghiaciuc was in helmet and shoulder pads, but barely took a rep all night. Bobbie Williams was playing center. He botched one snap, but looked good otherwise.

4. Chris Perry looks good. Very good hands, just looks the part of an every down back by the eye test, looked very good on goal line drills and got a lot of reps in what looks to be a spread offense look. Just 30 or so snaps of 11-on-11 work, but he might again be the 5-7 carry/game, 50 catch guy we saw three years ago.

5. Jerome Simpson needs some work in the weight room -- his legs are skinnier in person than on the NFLDraftGuys vids -- and with his route running. He did get some looks with the ones late in practice (after Chad was out and about) and made a nice catch scraping the back of the end zone to find a soft spot in the zone.

6. Andre Caldwell looked good in drills, but was quiet otherwise. Chatman looked good. No one was getting many snaps, though, as the Bengals had a bunch of WR dressed. Other brief observations. Mario Urrutia's footwork was bad and his hands were worse tonight. Maurice Purify wasn't much better. Marcus Maxwell looked solid in individual drills, but like Caldwell, didn't stand out in team drills.

7. Ben Utecht is going to be a part of this offense. He got some targets in the flat, down the seam and in the red zone. He runs all goofy, but showed a lot of athleticism and body control adjusting to the ball.

 
1. Chad Johnson is a goofball.
gaspThat's just crazy talk.And what does this have to do w/Favre??
Well, when Chad implodes and ends up dealt to the Jets next offseason, don't be surprised. That should satisfy the current requirement that every thread has some bizarro Favre speculation. :goodposting:And, while I love Chad Johnson, that dude has Dennis Rodman written all over him. It was one thing after another on a boring Wednesday night camp practice. Dude had everybody looking his way, though.
 
2. No T.J., no Rudi. Both resting minor hamstring problems. No Levi Jones either.
Not good Rudi news, considering his lingering hamstring woes last year
I think it's very much precautionary. He was doing some light running without pads and really didn't look injured. There've been stories locally about his dedication to conditioning this offseason and remaking his body type. Hopefully, it's nothing.
 
4. Chris Perry looks good. Very good hands, just looks the part of an every down back by the eye test, looked very good on goal line drills and got a lot of reps in what looks to be a spread offense look. Just 30 or so snaps of 11-on-11 work, but he might again be the 5-7 carry/game, 50 catch guy we saw three years ago.
Perry is one of the most interesting players in preseason. If he can stay healthy, I have to think he sees a lot of playing time.
 
4. Chris Perry looks good. Very good hands, just looks the part of an every down back by the eye test, looked very good on goal line drills and got a lot of reps in what looks to be a spread offense look. Just 30 or so snaps of 11-on-11 work, but he might again be the 5-7 carry/game, 50 catch guy we saw three years ago.
Perry is one of the most interesting players in preseason. If he can stay healthy, I have to think he sees a lot of playing time.
:goodposting: truly a deep sleeper..lots of upside here..
 
Thanks for the write-up, Jene. The Bengals in theory should be one of the more productive fantasy offenses, so it's nice to get some insight into how they look.

1. Chad Johnson is a goofball. He comes out five minutes late, skipping the stretches and walking right up to Marvin Lewis to BS. He's the only guy in white shoes and sweat pants. Everyone else is in shorts. He then goes down with the offensive line and does pushups while they stretch. He races Carson Palmer across the field during warmup sprints with the QBs, who also came out late. Then, he proceeds to catch everything thrown his way all night long, before skipping some first team reps to escort a fan from the stands around the huddle.
You don't have to look very far to see why Marvin Lewis' players have gotten into the problems we've seen in recent years. What you've just described is a player who is not only above the team, but who is acting like the coach's equal in front of the team. While I can understand how stars can get special privileges, you don't undercut a coach's authority. Whatever else Marvin Lewis is, he's a fool for letting this sort of thing to develop and fester, especially when the players watching this sort of thing have included a number of guys with questionable judgement/character. It's the completely wrong thing for this team.
 
Tanner9919 said:
Anthony Borbely said:
4. Chris Perry looks good. Very good hands, just looks the part of an every down back by the eye test, looked very good on goal line drills and got a lot of reps in what looks to be a spread offense look. Just 30 or so snaps of 11-on-11 work, but he might again be the 5-7 carry/game, 50 catch guy we saw three years ago.
Perry is one of the most interesting players in preseason. If he can stay healthy, I have to think he sees a lot of playing time.
:) truly a deep sleeper..lots of upside here..
Perry I dont believe ever once made it through a full training camp without an injury (maybe once out of five years) so this should be interesting.He absolutely would get playing time. Like Kenny Irons would have last year had he not torn the ACL.
 
I think the interesting story line will be Chris Perry and J. Simpson vs A. Caldwell for the #3 spot, and future implications.

Keep them coming Jene. Great stuff.

 
Tanner9919 said:
Anthony Borbely said:
4. Chris Perry looks good. Very good hands, just looks the part of an every down back by the eye test, looked very good on goal line drills and got a lot of reps in what looks to be a spread offense look. Just 30 or so snaps of 11-on-11 work, but he might again be the 5-7 carry/game, 50 catch guy we saw three years ago.
Perry is one of the most interesting players in preseason. If he can stay healthy, I have to think he sees a lot of playing time.
:hot: truly a deep sleeper..lots of upside here..
If Rudi is on a downhill slide rather than rebounding from a fluke injury Perry could be the starter by the end of the season....The kid has amazing skills. He just hasn't held it together so far in his career...
 
Perry would probably have unseated Rudi by now if he had been healthy. He hasnt though and Rudi has carried the load longer than I expected. Both could be replaced next offseason. CJ, TJ, and Levi could all be leaving soon too. This offense could fall off a cliff in a hurry.

 
TheFanatic said:
4. Chris Perry looks good. Very good hands, just looks the part of an every down back by the eye test, looked very good on goal line drills and got a lot of reps in what looks to be a spread offense look. Just 30 or so snaps of 11-on-11 work, but he might again be the 5-7 carry/game, 50 catch guy we saw three years ago.
Perry is one of the most interesting players in preseason. If he can stay healthy, I have to think he sees a lot of playing time.
:goodposting: truly a deep sleeper..lots of upside here..
If Rudi is on a downhill slide rather than rebounding from a fluke injury Perry could be the starter by the end of the season....The kid has amazing skills. He just hasn't held it together so far in his career...
I loved Perry in college - he ran like a human sledge hammer in the Rose Bowl game vs. USC back in 2004, so I came away impressed. As a 'Skins fan I wanted the team to draft him before they traded for Portis. We have a tendency to easily dismiss guys who suffer injuries, but there could be value there. He certainly has talent when he's healthy, and it's noteworthy that the Bengals have held onto him all this time despite there being an abundance of RB talent available in the FA market and in subsequent drafts.
 
I've heard from a few die hard Bengal fans that attend camp every year that they look terrible on both sides of the ball. Of course there are hardly any starters playing at the skill positions, so need to consider that fact.

 
Whats the word on Kenny Watson? Where does he fit in with Perry and Rudi?
Watson is, well, watson. I believe we all know what we get with Kenny. He could help you win a couple of games but you wouldn't want to rely on him for a season. He's also up there in age. I was surprised to find out that he turned 30 in March...
 
I've heard from a few die hard Bengal fans that attend camp every year that they look terrible on both sides of the ball. Of course there are hardly any starters playing at the skill positions, so need to consider that fact.
This was our general impression as well. They just looked slow, dog days of camp or not, and not particularly motivated. As you note, however, no Chad for the most part, no Rudi, no TJ, no Odom, no Joseph, no Ndukwe, no Levi, etc.
 
1. Utecht... isn't not draftable.

2. The Bengals are ripe for implosion.

3. TJ will be overdrafted/rated this year. He will miss 2-3 games, and under perform numberswise.

4. Rudi is a bit underrated/valued.

 
I remember a pre-draft article on Carson Palmer and his personality type.

It said he'd excel when things were going well, but would have problems when having to face adversity.

So far that profile seems like it might be coming true. Last year he was pretty bad, this year he could completely implode.

I want no part of Palmer this year, he might challenge the single season INT record.

 
Hey Bengals homers --

Who are you looking at taking the #3 WR position.

Compiling my draft list and I have no idea who it is. Seems to me like whoever is #3 might be a nice little sleeper.

Thanks

 
Hey Bengals homers -- Who are you looking at taking the #3 WR position.Compiling my draft list and I have no idea who it is. Seems to me like whoever is #3 might be a nice little sleeper.Thanks
It's going to be Chatman, assuming his hamstring holds. Marcus Maxwell is competing with Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson. Simpson probably has little chance of earning meaningful snaps unless the corps gets decimated. He's just too raw right now as a route runner, which will keep him from getting consistent separation. Maxwell is interesting, as is Caldwell, but Chatman's a vet and has the edge in snaps with Palmer and the coaches' confidence in addition to the edge in experience.The odds of Chatman staying healthy for any extended length of time are very long, however. This is a situation that's worth monitoring all season long.
 
Hey Bengals homers -- Who are you looking at taking the #3 WR position.Compiling my draft list and I have no idea who it is. Seems to me like whoever is #3 might be a nice little sleeper.Thanks
It's going to be Chatman, assuming his hamstring holds. Marcus Maxwell is competing with Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson. Simpson probably has little chance of earning meaningful snaps unless the corps gets decimated. He's just too raw right now as a route runner, which will keep him from getting consistent separation. Maxwell is interesting, as is Caldwell, but Chatman's a vet and has the edge in snaps with Palmer and the coaches' confidence in addition to the edge in experience.The odds of Chatman staying healthy for any extended length of time are very long, however. This is a situation that's worth monitoring all season long.
Has Chatman improved that much since his days in Green Bay? He was far from impressive during his stay at Lambeau, particularly as a WR. It seems like any snaps Chatman gets as a #3 are an indictment of Caldwell and Simpson.
 
Hey Bengals homers -- Who are you looking at taking the #3 WR position.Compiling my draft list and I have no idea who it is. Seems to me like whoever is #3 might be a nice little sleeper.Thanks
It's going to be Chatman, assuming his hamstring holds. Marcus Maxwell is competing with Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson. Simpson probably has little chance of earning meaningful snaps unless the corps gets decimated. He's just too raw right now as a route runner, which will keep him from getting consistent separation. Maxwell is interesting, as is Caldwell, but Chatman's a vet and has the edge in snaps with Palmer and the coaches' confidence in addition to the edge in experience.The odds of Chatman staying healthy for any extended length of time are very long, however. This is a situation that's worth monitoring all season long.
Has Chatman improved that much since his days in Green Bay? He was far from impressive during his stay at Lambeau, particularly as a WR. It seems like any snaps Chatman gets as a #3 are an indictment of Caldwell and Simpson.
I don't remember what Chatman's role was in Green Bay. Here he's a complementary guy who matches up reasonably well against third corners and safeties underneath while attention is paid to CJ and TJ, and might occasionally be asked to run a deep sideline route. I wouldn't see his winning the job as an indictment yet. He's been playing well and the coaches have praised him (when healthy) since he's been here. Caldwell, and possibly Simpson, should still see snaps when the Bengals run a spread offense with Perry and Utecht on some downs. If Chatman is still taking snaps from them next season, when they've presumably had a year of NFL coaching and playbook work, then it's time to get worried.
 
Hey Bengals homers -- Who are you looking at taking the #3 WR position.Compiling my draft list and I have no idea who it is. Seems to me like whoever is #3 might be a nice little sleeper.Thanks
It's going to be Chatman, assuming his hamstring holds. Marcus Maxwell is competing with Andre Caldwell and Jerome Simpson. Simpson probably has little chance of earning meaningful snaps unless the corps gets decimated. He's just too raw right now as a route runner, which will keep him from getting consistent separation. Maxwell is interesting, as is Caldwell, but Chatman's a vet and has the edge in snaps with Palmer and the coaches' confidence in addition to the edge in experience.The odds of Chatman staying healthy for any extended length of time are very long, however. This is a situation that's worth monitoring all season long.
Has Chatman improved that much since his days in Green Bay? He was far from impressive during his stay at Lambeau, particularly as a WR. It seems like any snaps Chatman gets as a #3 are an indictment of Caldwell and Simpson.
I don't remember what Chatman's role was in Green Bay. Here he's a complementary guy who matches up reasonably well against third corners and safeties underneath while attention is paid to CJ and TJ, and might occasionally be asked to run a deep sideline route. I wouldn't see his winning the job as an indictment yet. He's been playing well and the coaches have praised him (when healthy) since he's been here. Caldwell, and possibly Simpson, should still see snaps when the Bengals run a spread offense with Perry and Utecht on some downs. If Chatman is still taking snaps from them next season, when they've presumably had a year of NFL coaching and playbook work, then it's time to get worried.
Thx Jene. He was primarily a return man, but also at times the #4/5 WR - back when the Pack had one of it's worst receiving corps ever. (e.g., Robert Ferguson) I could see him being useful in the slot potentially.....but anytime he played for the Pack, it was almost like you couldn't wait to see who they brought in instead.
 
I think this will be Caldwell's job eventually if not right out of camp. Chatman is ahead at the moment, but he doesn't have Caldwell's speed. When Henry was here, the Bengals would often line him up out wide and bring TJ into the slot against a 3rd DB or LB. That is where TJ makes his living on the underneath stuff. Caldwell will be a much greater threat to draw a safety on the deep sideline patterns with his speed. Plus, like Jene said, Chatman is always dinged.

I don't see Simpson entering the mix as he is dropping a ton of balls.

 
I don't remember what Chatman's role was in Green Bay. Here he's a complementary guy who matches up reasonably well against third corners and safeties underneath while attention is paid to CJ and TJ, and might occasionally be asked to run a deep sideline route. I wouldn't see his winning the job as an indictment yet. He's been playing well and the coaches have praised him (when healthy) since he's been here. Caldwell, and possibly Simpson, should still see snaps when the Bengals run a spread offense with Perry and Utecht on some downs. If Chatman is still taking snaps from them next season, when they've presumably had a year of NFL coaching and playbook work, then it's time to get worried.
He was mostly a return man and spot starter. He was fast but too small to be be a consistent WR.
 
I think the true answer is that WR3 for the Bengals is of questionable fantasy value right now unless the league is deep. I'm hoping for my ultimate survivor league that :rechesbrother: :goodposting: Caldwell will end up as a fly-route guy - basically getting a couple long TDs even if his overall catches aren't high. I really think that a healthy Perry and a decent receiving threat in Utecht will keep the value of the WR3 lower than it has been in the Henry era. They also have been supposedly putting in more 2 TE sets which consequently will mean less 3 WR sets.

-QG

 

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