Offensive Line article is up (1 Viewer)

[Ministry of Pain]

Hello Shark Pool,

I had the privilege to work with Chris Smith from the FBG staff over the past few weeks. You all know from my weekly and preseason RB threads that I put a lot of emphasis on the OL. From long time debates with Jeff Tefertiller as well over the years I have come to accept that Offensive Tackles have a bigger impact on the passing game. When a Tackle can pass protect and run block well, they truly become elite. The inside guys at G/C help move the piles and pick up 1st downs. Most of them are better suited to run block otherwise they would play LT and get paid a fortune in the NFL.

What was awesome for me personally is that all my words were left intact. Rather than take two opinions and blend them together, we let all our thoughts stand on their own. As a writer this is one of the greatest gifts someone can give. Again, thanks to Chris, Clayton, JB, DD, and the rest of the staff for the opportunity to share my thoughts with the Shark Pool and the subscribers. http://footballguys.com/10smith_ol.php

Link

Peace,

MOP

 

[amphibianbri]

1 word.....awesome! Thanks guys, I've barely started through but already see the depth n how much this will help

 

[Ministry of Pain]

1 word.....awesome! Thanks guys, I've barely started through but already see the depth n how much this will help

Muchos gracias AmpWe tried to dig deeper than most of what you find in print, especially at the newsstands. One thing I always found sorely lacking in the mags every year were credible OL rankings. FBG devoted a section to it in their mag starting in 2006 and to my knowledge it was one of the first to do it. Maybe FFI was doing some of it previous to that but I don't find a lot of in depth coverage. The issue is that most average NFL fans and even FF owners could care less about the Offensive Lines...but the SP is not your average reader. We wrote it with you guys in mind.

 

[CletiusMaximus]

good article guys - well done.

If I could just make a couple minor points regarding the Packers. Daryn Colledge signed his RFA tender in May so he is under contract and participated in the last mini-camp. There has been some speculation of a sign-trade with him, but I doubt that is in the works. I think some would identify Colledge as the "incumbent" so to speak at LG, although there will clearly be a battle with Spitz and possibly TJ Lang for that position. I personally expect Lang and Bulaga to settle in at the backup tackle positions with Wells, Sitton, Spitz, and Colledge covering the interior positions. Hoping to see something positive develop from one of Giacomini, Dietrich-Smith, or rookie Marshall Newhouse. I think the book is closed on Allen Barbre.

(also just noting the typo on "Lang")

 

[Ministry of Pain]

good article guys - well done.If I could just make a couple minor points regarding the Packers. Daryn Colledge signed his RFA tender in May so he is under contract and participated in the last mini-camp. There has been some speculation of a sign-trade with him, but I doubt that is in the works. I think some would identify Colledge as the "incumbent" so to speak at LG, although there will clearly be a battle with Spitz and possibly TJ Lang for that position. I personally expect Lang and Bulaga to settle in at the backup tackle positions with Wells, Sitton, Spitz, and Colledge covering the interior positions. Hoping to see something positive develop from one of Giacomini, Dietrich-Smith, or rookie Marshall Newhouse. I think the book is closed on Allen Barbre.(also just noting the typo on "Lang")

Good stuff Cletius. Certainly things are going to change between now and the 2nd weekend in September. This board will not miss on camp notes, contract quibbles, minor 4th ring toe injuries...this will be a working thread up until the season starts. Really appreciate the information CM and keep it coming everyone. Chris and I cannot be in 32 camps watching the 1st and 2nd string interior OL snaps so it's going to be the SP posters that go out and watch these camps that can come in and report back.

 

[Donsmith753]

Hello Shark Pool,

I had the privilege to work with Chris Smith from the FBG staff over the past few weeks. You all know from my weekly and preseason RB threads that I put a lot of emphasis on the OL. From long time debates with Jeff Tefertiller as well over the years I have come to accept that Offensive Tackles have a bigger impact on the passing game. When a Tackle can pass protect and run block well, they truly become elite. The inside guys at G/C help move the piles and pick up 1st downs. Most of them are better suited to run block otherwise they would play LT and get paid a fortune in the NFL.

What was awesome for me personally is that all my words were left intact. Rather than take two opinions and blend them together, we let all our thoughts stand on their own. As a writer this is one of the greatest gifts someone can give. Again, thanks to Chris, Clayton, JB, DD, and the rest of the staff for the opportunity to share my thoughts with the Shark Pool and the subscribers. http://footballguys.com/10smith_ol.php

Link

Peace,

MOP

I quite like your contrasting styles and your use of stats throughout.

 

[newteech]

great read, thank you

I was surprised at how often you two vastly disagreed on the various teams. This illustrates how difficult it is to asses value to an O line.

If you compare O line rankings from other websites, they too are all over the board.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I quite like your contrasting styles and your use of stats throughout.

I wasn't sure how it was going to mesh when we 1st started but rather than blend 2 opposing views and homogenize the whole thing we left what the other wrote alone. Sometimes we do agree and sometimes we obviously do not. The stats were a good way for me to gauge if I was off. A guy that I was never that high on was Joe Staley from SF and a poster lit me up pretty good one time for dogging him. And after sifting thru the stats that poster is correct in their assessment. So the stats were good especially in the pass protection. Rushing-ypc...the avg in the NFL is 4.2 and when you go from 4.3 down to 4.1, you lump about 2/3 of the league right there in the middle...so it is harder to gauge how good or bad sometimes the run blocking is.

 

[Paul Brown]

way to go Sean

 

[thecatch]

good analysis. However, I will note that Smiths projected starting lineup for the niners is not accurate, while MOP did get it right (namely, staley is not noving to the right side, and iupati has been working at LG)

 

[Ministry of Pain]

way to go Sean

TY Paul Downside is my name is no longer a secret. Can you tell I'm Irish?

 

[Ministry of Pain]

good analysis. However, I will note that Smiths projected starting lineup for the niners is not accurate, while MOP did get it right (namely, staley is not noving to the right side, and iupati has been working at LG)

I think Frank Gore has a chance to explode even more than we have seen in years past. The OL will have Staley returning, 2 dynamic rookies to inject into the line. If the ramp up time to gel is quick, Gore could easily land in the top3-5 this season. SF still doesn't have the established sets of WRs, Gore can catch balls when called upon...sky is the limit for him. Chris and I wanted to fire up a thread in the SP so posters like yourself can come in and post updates. It's only mid July, and we had to write this starting back in June based on some OTAs so things will be fluid as we move into camps. Thanks TC.

 

[footballman_696969]

Hello Shark Pool,

I had the privilege to work with Chris Smith from the FBG staff over the past few weeks. You all know from my weekly and preseason RB threads that I put a lot of emphasis on the OL. From long time debates with Jeff Tefertiller as well over the years I have come to accept that Offensive Tackles have a bigger impact on the passing game. When a Tackle can pass protect and run block well, they truly become elite. The inside guys at G/C help move the piles and pick up 1st downs. Most of them are better suited to run block otherwise they would play LT and get paid a fortune in the NFL.

What was awesome for me personally is that all my words were left intact. Rather than take two opinions and blend them together, we let all our thoughts stand on their own. As a writer this is one of the greatest gifts someone can give. Again, thanks to Chris, Clayton, JB, DD, and the rest of the staff for the opportunity to share my thoughts with the Shark Pool and the subscribers. http://footballguys.com/10smith_ol.php

Link

Peace,

MOP

Great arctile... Appreciate the hard work.But.. I think you can run into trouble if you rely too heavily on offensive line rankings when analyzing a RB. Good RBs will produce stats even behind some of the worst offensive lines... For example:

Seattle - Forsett averaged 5.4 ypc, but this is a small sample size as he only got 114 carries. If you look at the Seattle RBs as a whole they averaged 4.2 yards/carry last year.

Pittsburgh - Mendenhall averaged 4.6 yards/carry last year... Although this was with Colon in the lineup. As a team Pitt had an average yards/carry of 4.3.

St.Louis - SJax averaged 4.4 yards/carry and as a team St. Louis RBs averaged 4.4 yards/carry as well.

Oakland - Michael Bush averaged 4.8 yards/carry and all the Raiders RBs combined had 4.0 yards/carry.

Buffalo - Fred Jackson averaged 4.5 yards/carry and the RBs as a whole averaged 4.3 ypc.

Seattle, St.Louis, Oakland, and Buffalo were all ranked in the bottom 5 of the league in terms of run blocking lines by you and Chris, but last year the RBs for these teams averaged 4.2, 4.4, 4.0, and 4.3 yards/carry respectively.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Hello Shark Pool,

I had the privilege to work with Chris Smith from the FBG staff over the past few weeks. You all know from my weekly and preseason RB threads that I put a lot of emphasis on the OL. From long time debates with Jeff Tefertiller as well over the years I have come to accept that Offensive Tackles have a bigger impact on the passing game. When a Tackle can pass protect and run block well, they truly become elite. The inside guys at G/C help move the piles and pick up 1st downs. Most of them are better suited to run block otherwise they would play LT and get paid a fortune in the NFL.

What was awesome for me personally is that all my words were left intact. Rather than take two opinions and blend them together, we let all our thoughts stand on their own. As a writer this is one of the greatest gifts someone can give. Again, thanks to Chris, Clayton, JB, DD, and the rest of the staff for the opportunity to share my thoughts with the Shark Pool and the subscribers. http://footballguys.com/10smith_ol.php

Link

Peace,

MOP

Great arctile... Appreciate the hard work.But.. I think you can run into trouble if you rely too heavily on offensive line rankings when analyzing a RB. Good RBs will produce stats even behind some of the worst offensive lines... For example:

Seattle - Forsett averaged 5.4 ypc, but this is a small sample size as he only got 114 carries. If you look at the Seattle RBs as a whole they averaged 4.2 yards/carry last year.

Pittsburgh - Mendenhall averaged 4.6 yards/carry last year... Although this was with Colon in the lineup. As a team Pitt had an average yards/carry of 4.3.

St.Louis - SJax averaged 4.4 yards/carry and as a team St. Louis RBs averaged 4.4 yards/carry as well.

Oakland - Michael Bush averaged 4.8 yards/carry and all the Raiders RBs combined had 4.0 yards/carry.

Buffalo - Fred Jackson averaged 4.5 yards/carry and the RBs as a whole averaged 4.3 ypc.

Seattle, St.Louis, Oakland, and Buffalo were all ranked in the bottom 5 of the league in terms of run blocking lines by you and Chris, but last year the RBs for these teams averaged 4.2, 4.4, 4.0, and 4.3 yards/carry respectively.

Absolutely. over 2/3 of the NFL averages between 4.1 and 4.3 ypc collectively as a team. so the differences are subtle and quality RBs can find room in any situation as you say. Fred Jackson though IMO was the right kind of back, maybe still is for Buffalo. He can shed tackles and even when hit behind the line can still make positive yardage so even behind a very suspect line like Buffalo, he still manages to produce positive gains. He certainly is not a speed back wouldn't you agree?

Nice post, thank you for the feedback.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

One thing about the Lions that I read before the draft (sorry, no link) was that while Backus gave up a lot of sacks, several of them were because he had to slide inside to block a player that the left guard was supposed to and didn't. That led to the defensive end sacking the QB and at quick glance during the games, it looked like Backus was playing worse than he really did. Backus has not been great by any stretch, but he has never had a guard next to him that could even be classified as average and there has been different starting left guards almost every year since Backus got here. I'm hopeful that Sims will be the answer. Left guard has been the biggest issue on the line for years, along with right tackle.

I also liked that you each had your own opinions and that they were not merged. Great article, guys.

 

[Stinkin Ref]

awesome...thanks guys

 

[CentralPA]

Very very very good read. The offensive line is one of the most important aspects in football as the flow of the offense runs through it. Knowing which lines have what it takes to protect their QB and to open the running lanes for their RBs helps the fantasy community decide who the top producers will be this year. Thanks alot guys, I will make sure to keep this article in mind when drafting in a couple of weeks.

 

[cmv5]

Great article. It is hard, even as much of a die hard fan as I consider myself to be, to keep up with all of the changes going on with the o-lines. Great information and very thorough. Thanks.

 

[Routilla]

Nice work, thanks.

 

[netnalp]

Missed the key back up for the Giants, Beatty, he'll push for a starting position at tackle and that may move Diehl to LG, though Diehl says he wants to stay at tackle.

 

[Rovers]

Really enjoyed the article. Hey MoP, nuthin wrong with being Irish!

Not to nitpick, but in the copy you guys have the Jets ranked at 5, while at the bottom listing, they are at #2.

My comments on the Jets: I actually expect to see Slauson starting at LG over the rookie Ducasse as Fanecca's relacement. Slauson will be in his 2rd year out of Nebraska, a 6th round pick in 2009. He knows the system and the Jets have had a year to coach him up. He may only be keeping the seat warm for Ducasse, but I think he'll be the starter come week one. Fanecca was still a very good run blocker, and in that aspect he will be missed, but he was getting close to turnstile status in pass blocking. The CS I believe is more concerned about protecting Sanchez, and Ducasse likely will need some time before he is ready. Slauson played well enough in cameo appearances in 3 games late last year to give the Jets some confidence they could jettison Fanecca.

Ducasse would really have to impress to win the starting spot by week one. If he CAN beat out Slauson, that would be great for the Jets. Slauson while somewhat average, is solid enough to play LG and hold the fort. Maybe like Moore, the Jets' RG, he will prove to be better than average. I haven't seen enough to have an opinion. Reports around camp indicate Slauson will be the likely starter. Slauson also took some snaps at C last year. Turner is in the mix too, but unlikely to win the job.

I love this sort of content. Great job fellas.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Really enjoyed the article. Hey MoP, nuthin wrong with being Irish!Not to nitpick, but in the copy you guys have the Jets ranked at 5, while at the bottom listing, they are at #2. My comments on the Jets: I actually expect to see Slauson starting at LG over the rookie Ducasse as Fanecca's relacement. Slauson will be in his 2rd year out of Nebraska, a 6th round pick in 2009. He knows the system and the Jets have had a year to coach him up. He may only be keeping the seat warm for Ducasse, but I think he'll be the starter come week one. Fanecca was still a very good run blocker, and in that aspect he will be missed, but he was getting close to turnstile status in pass blocking. The CS I believe is more concerned about protecting Sanchez, and Ducasse likely will need some time before he is ready. Slauson played well enough in cameo appearances in 3 games late last year to give the Jets some confidence they could jettison Fanecca. Ducasse would really have to impress to win the starting spot by week one. If he CAN beat out Slauson, that would be great for the Jets. Slauson while somewhat average, is solid enough to play LG and hold the fort. Maybe like Moore, the Jets' RG, he will prove to be better than average. I haven't seen enough to have an opinion. Reports around camp indicate Slauson will be the likely starter. Slauson also took some snaps at C last year. Turner is in the mix too, but unlikely to win the job. I love this sort of content. Great job fellas.

Interesting take.While Faneca was a turnstile at LG no doubt about that however, G/C positions are really about blowing holes open in the DL for the backs to run thru. Many G/C spots throughout the NFL have guys that only yield 2-3 sacks or less per year, it's almost common because speedy DEs do not typically come crashing up the middle. Bruce Smith used to do it but he was a special breed of player. The Jets are a run 1st, run 2nd, maybe we'll pass on 3rd type of team; you know that being a NY Jets fan. I believe Ducasse was drafted to start. Everything the Jets have done by bringing in FAs this off season was done with an intent to make another deep playoff run. We'll see how camp shakes out but my money would be on Ducasse to win the job quickly. He was a 2nd round pick and highly rated coming out of UMass. He's 6'4" 335, he's built to pound on DLinemen...we'll see but I believe he's going to see plenty of action as a rookie.

 

[David Dodds]

I loved this piece too. Thank you MOP for working to take this article to another level. We have always appreciated Chris Smith's hard work on this piece, but in a situation regarding OL (with lots of subjective judgement and minimal stats), two people's opinions are WAY BETTER than just one.

 

[Jason Wood]

Mad props to MOP for his contributions to this article. Having the extra pair of eyes, particularly as a means of comparing and contrasting situations that are up for some debate, was VERY helpful.

 

[Godsbrother]

Outstanding effort and will take me a while to read thoroughly. But this quote really makes me wonder:

Willie Colon suffered an injury in OTAs and will miss the entire 2010 season. Many fans feel it's not that big of a loss. Let's put it in perspective. Sure, Colon gave up a good amount of penalties but he also only allowed five QB pressures all year beyond the six sacks he gave up. Colon is a fantastic pass blocking RT, somewhat average at RB but he will be sorely missed and to think otherwise is unrealistic.

This is completely opposite to what I and other Steelers fans have seen. Colon's strength, if he heas one, has been his run blocking. He makes a better turnstyle than he is a fantastic pass blocker. Sure the Steelers will miss him, especially with Roethlisberger out the first four games, but lets not get carried away here. Willie Colon was an average RT on his best days.

 

[Reaper]

Really enjoyed the article. Hey MoP, nuthin wrong with being Irish!

Not to nitpick, but in the copy you guys have the Jets ranked at 5, while at the bottom listing, they are at #2.

My comments on the Jets: I actually expect to see Slauson starting at LG over the rookie Ducasse as Fanecca's relacement. Slauson will be in his 2rd year out of Nebraska, a 6th round pick in 2009. He knows the system and the Jets have had a year to coach him up. He may only be keeping the seat warm for Ducasse, but I think he'll be the starter come week one. Fanecca was still a very good run blocker, and in that aspect he will be missed, but he was getting close to turnstile status in pass blocking. The CS I believe is more concerned about protecting Sanchez, and Ducasse likely will need some time before he is ready. Slauson played well enough in cameo appearances in 3 games late last year to give the Jets some confidence they could jettison Fanecca.

Ducasse would really have to impress to win the starting spot by week one. If he CAN beat out Slauson, that would be great for the Jets. Slauson while somewhat average, is solid enough to play LG and hold the fort. Maybe like Moore, the Jets' RG, he will prove to be better than average. I haven't seen enough to have an opinion. Reports around camp indicate Slauson will be the likely starter. Slauson also took some snaps at C last year. Turner is in the mix too, but unlikely to win the job.

I love this sort of content. Great job fellas.

Interesting take.While Faneca was a turnstile at LG no doubt about that however, G/C positions are really about blowing holes open in the DL for the backs to run thru. Many G/C spots throughout the NFL have guys that only yield 2-3 sacks or less per year, it's almost common because speedy DEs do not typically come crashing up the middle. Bruce Smith used to do it but he was a special breed of player. The Jets are a run 1st, run 2nd, maybe we'll pass on 3rd type of team; you know that being a NY Jets fan. I believe Ducasse was drafted to start. Everything the Jets have done by bringing in FAs this off season was done with an intent to make another deep playoff run. We'll see how camp shakes out but my money would be on Ducasse to win the job quickly. He was a 2nd round pick and highly rated coming out of UMass. He's 6'4" 335, he's built to pound on DLinemen...we'll see but I believe he's going to see plenty of action as a rookie.

Great stuff MOP.....

Was Ducasse drafted to start??? You know Slauson was recruited by and played for OL Coach Bill Callahan..... Rovers mentions that the Jets have had a year to coach him up - Sheesh, I'd say he's been learning the system for a few years.

IMO, you don't let go of Faneca without being 100% happy if Slauson has to start....

I think it's a legit camp battle, let the best man win but, Slauson has a hell of a head start and we'll assume that Ducasse has more raw talent.....

It's also my untrained opinion that Faneca's value in the run game was more in the Pull situations.. That's when you would have the TV analysts replay a play and highlight Faneca... Not so much "Blowing Holes Open" anymore, I'm sure I can line up Pitt fans to attest to that. I think Faneca is using his smarts as a finesse player in his old age more so than someone blowing up any holes.

When it comes to Blowing holes open, IMO, the Jets have upgraded...

 

[Ministry of Pain]

I loved this piece too. Thank you MOP for working to take this article to another level. We have always appreciated Chris Smith's hard work on this piece, but in a situation regarding OL (with lots of subjective judgement and minimal stats), two people's opinions are WAY BETTER than just one.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Outstanding effort and will take me a while to read thoroughly. But this quote really makes me wonder:

Willie Colon suffered an injury in OTAs and will miss the entire 2010 season. Many fans feel it's not that big of a loss. Let's put it in perspective. Sure, Colon gave up a good amount of penalties but he also only allowed five QB pressures all year beyond the six sacks he gave up. Colon is a fantastic pass blocking RT, somewhat average at RB but he will be sorely missed and to think otherwise is unrealistic.

This is completely opposite to what I and other Steelers fans have seen. Colon's strength, if he heas one, has been his run blocking. He makes a better turnstyle than he is a fantastic pass blocker. Sure the Steelers will miss him, especially with Roethlisberger out the first four games, but lets not get carried away here. Willie Colon was an average RT on his best days.

I get it GB, I hope you do read the entire article besides your beloved Steelers, however the numbers back me up. Only Joe Staley from the LT spot allowed fewer QB pressures than Colon all season. Let's say there are 64 starting Offensive Tackles, Colon ranked 2nd out of 64 in fewest QB pressures allowed. I understand he was holding some of the time. He was 13th in penalties called meaning 12 other Tackles got called for more but he still is pretty good at keeping BenR's jersey clean and he only allowed 4 QB hits which is in the top1/3 of Tackles. What else can I base my rationale on? I get that you and others follow every snap and you don't like Colon but you're gonna miss him during the season. We can have different views on the projections of what Pitt will do this season but I based my assessment on the facts and stats that I had. Thanks for the feedback GB.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Mad props to MOP for his contributions to this article. Having the extra pair of eyes, particularly as a means of comparing and contrasting situations that are up for some debate, was VERY helpful.

At some point I would like to know what the new avatar is. And thanks for the kind words.

 

[baconisgood]

Outstanding effort and will take me a while to read thoroughly. But this quote really makes me wonder:

Willie Colon suffered an injury in OTAs and will miss the entire 2010 season. Many fans feel it's not that big of a loss. Let's put it in perspective. Sure, Colon gave up a good amount of penalties but he also only allowed five QB pressures all year beyond the six sacks he gave up. Colon is a fantastic pass blocking RT, somewhat average at RB but he will be sorely missed and to think otherwise is unrealistic.

This is completely opposite to what I and other Steelers fans have seen. Colon's strength, if he heas one, has been his run blocking. He makes a better turnstyle than he is a fantastic pass blocker. Sure the Steelers will miss him, especially with Roethlisberger out the first four games, but lets not get carried away here. Willie Colon was an average RT on his best days.

I get it GB, I hope you do read the entire article besides your beloved Steelers, however the numbers back me up. Only Joe Staley from the LT spot allowed fewer QB pressures than Colon all season. Let's say there are 64 starting Offensive Tackles, Colon ranked 2nd out of 64 in fewest QB pressures allowed. I understand he was holding some of the time. He was 13th in penalties called meaning 12 other Tackles got called for more but he still is pretty good at keeping BenR's jersey clean and he only allowed 4 QB hits which is in the top1/3 of Tackles. What else can I base my rationale on? I get that you and others follow every snap and you don't like Colon but you're gonna miss him during the season. We can have different views on the projections of what Pitt will do this season but I based my assessment on the facts and stats that I had. Thanks for the feedback GB.

Well the guys at profootballfocus- who do try to chart every play- agree with you. They actually have Colon as the best tackle in the league pass blocking last season and 3rd overall.

 

[Jason Wood]

Mad props to MOP for his contributions to this article. Having the extra pair of eyes, particularly as a means of comparing and contrasting situations that are up for some debate, was VERY helpful.

At some point I would like to know what the new avatar is. And thanks for the kind words.

Here's your answer

 

[Godsbrother]

I get that you and others follow every snap and you don't like Colon but you're gonna miss him during the season. We can have different views on the projections of what Pitt will do this season but I based my assessment on the facts and stats that I had. Thanks for the feedback GB.

I agree the Steelers are going to miss Colon because they don't have anyone better to replace him. The Steelers offensive line has been a weakness for several years now, especially their run blocking, which is where they will really miss Colon. I am not discounting the stats but I believe this is a case of where the stats just don't tell the whole story. Most Steelers fans will back me up on this.The Steelers have been a good team despite the o-line, mainly because of their defense and Ben Roethlisberger. I expect the defense to bounce back in 2010 but losing Roethlisberger for a quarter of the season is going to be the real blow (losing Santonio Holmes doesn't help either). Without Roethlisberger, the Steelers really needed their offensive line to improve this season (especially in run blocking). Losing Colon is definitely going to make that difficult so I agree he will be missed.

Well the guys at profootballfocus- who do try to chart every play- agree with you. They actually have Colon as the best tackle in the league pass blocking last season and 3rd overall.

I don't want to argue with the fine folks at profootballfocus but there is no way in hell Willie Colon was the best pass-blocking OT in the NFL last season. That is just silly talk.

 

[Rovers]

Really enjoyed the article. Hey MoP, nuthin wrong with being Irish!

Not to nitpick, but in the copy you guys have the Jets ranked at 5, while at the bottom listing, they are at #2.

My comments on the Jets: I actually expect to see Slauson starting at LG over the rookie Ducasse as Fanecca's relacement. Slauson will be in his 2rd year out of Nebraska, a 6th round pick in 2009. He knows the system and the Jets have had a year to coach him up. He may only be keeping the seat warm for Ducasse, but I think he'll be the starter come week one. Fanecca was still a very good run blocker, and in that aspect he will be missed, but he was getting close to turnstile status in pass blocking. The CS I believe is more concerned about protecting Sanchez, and Ducasse likely will need some time before he is ready. Slauson played well enough in cameo appearances in 3 games late last year to give the Jets some confidence they could jettison Fanecca.

Ducasse would really have to impress to win the starting spot by week one. If he CAN beat out Slauson, that would be great for the Jets. Slauson while somewhat average, is solid enough to play LG and hold the fort. Maybe like Moore, the Jets' RG, he will prove to be better than average. I haven't seen enough to have an opinion. Reports around camp indicate Slauson will be the likely starter. Slauson also took some snaps at C last year. Turner is in the mix too, but unlikely to win the job.

I love this sort of content. Great job fellas.

Interesting take.While Faneca was a turnstile at LG no doubt about that however, G/C positions are really about blowing holes open in the DL for the backs to run thru. Many G/C spots throughout the NFL have guys that only yield 2-3 sacks or less per year, it's almost common because speedy DEs do not typically come crashing up the middle. Bruce Smith used to do it but he was a special breed of player. The Jets are a run 1st, run 2nd, maybe we'll pass on 3rd type of team; you know that being a NY Jets fan. I believe Ducasse was drafted to start. Everything the Jets have done by bringing in FAs this off season was done with an intent to make another deep playoff run. We'll see how camp shakes out but my money would be on Ducasse to win the job quickly. He was a 2nd round pick and highly rated coming out of UMass. He's 6'4" 335, he's built to pound on DLinemen...we'll see but I believe he's going to see plenty of action as a rookie.

Great stuff MOP.....

Was Ducasse drafted to start??? You know Slauson was recruited by and played for OL Coach Bill Callahan..... Rovers mentions that the Jets have had a year to coach him up - Sheesh, I'd say he's been learning the system for a few years.

IMO, you don't let go of Faneca without being 100% happy if Slauson has to start....

I think it's a legit camp battle, let the best man win but, Slauson has a hell of a head start and we'll assume that Ducasse has more raw talent.....

It's also my untrained opinion that Faneca's value in the run game was more in the Pull situations.. That's when you would have the TV analysts replay a play and highlight Faneca... Not so much "Blowing Holes Open" anymore, I'm sure I can line up Pitt fans to attest to that. I think Faneca is using his smarts as a finesse player in his old age more so than someone blowing up any holes.

When it comes to Blowing holes open, IMO, the Jets have upgraded...

Reaper and I are on the same page. Here is one report on him from mockingthedraft.com:After just six years of playing organized football, Vladimir Ducasse has developed in to one of the more intriguing prospects in the 2010 draft class. An AP All-American, the Haitian native showed glimpses of being a dominant force within the trenches while participating in the Senior Bowl down in Mobile. It is easy to notice how raw of a player he is, as his technique in space is very inconsistent and he does not always appear to be comfortable on the edge. However when he is moving downhill, there may not be a more powerful interior lineman in the country. A move to guard is likely where he will need a year or two to refine the technique portion of his game. But his strong work ethic and ability to respond well to NFL coaching could evolve him in to a top notch guard at the next level. He carries a 2nd or 3rd round grade across the league but the upside here is higher than any interior lineman in this class.

Ducasse was a T in college. The jump to the NFL and learning the OG position and expecting him to start is a tall order. He is still pretty raw, even as a tackle. And yes, Fanecca pulled when run blocking far more often than power blocking.

There is a chance the Jets have high hopes for Slauson too. Moore at RG has been making some noise about his contract, and with Mangold, Revis and Harris needing new contracts, Ducasse mat get groomed for OLG and they could replace Moore with Slauson at ORG next year. Callahan is no slouch as an O line coach. If he likes Slauson...

 

[baconisgood]

I don't want to argue with the fine folks at profootballfocus but there is no way in hell Willie Colon was the best pass-blocking OT in the NFL last season. That is just silly talk.

Their grading doesn't take into account the quality of the opponent so a pretty good O-line man could easily finish with a top grade if he had a relatively easy schedule that year. As a Right Tackle Colon would be expected to see the 2nd tier of pass rushers and his schedule wasn't particularly hard last season.

 

[rzrback77]

write-up for St. Louis offensive line has incorrect spelling of the 2nd round rookie draft pick's name.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

write-up for St. Louis offensive line has incorrect spelling of the 2nd round rookie draft pick's name.

Saffold instead of Staffold, thanks rzrback. Must have been a Freudian slip.

 

[gethugefast1]

MOP, didn't give you ups for article when first published, so thanking you now.

Not sure if you had a chance to read the article published 2 days ago about OL's by Rustyn Rose of Knuckleheads. Not as in depth, but good opinions also.

Link: http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/fantasy-ana...-line-rankings/

 

[H8fulHuck]

Great analysis! Always enjoy reading your take MoP.

One comment to add, that AZ left side will get crushed in pass protection if they have Levi and Faneca at LT/LG. AZ had better keep 4 QBs on the roster.

 

[Ministry of Pain]

MOP, didn't give you ups for article when first published, so thanking you now.

Not sure if you had a chance to read the article published 2 days ago about OL's by Rustyn Rose of Knuckleheads. Not as in depth, but good opinions also.

Link: http://fantasyknuckleheads.com/fantasy-ana...-line-rankings/

I'll check it out, thanks

 

[Ministry of Pain]

Great analysis! Always enjoy reading your take MoP.One comment to add, that AZ left side will get crushed in pass protection if they have Levi and Faneca at LT/LG. AZ had better keep 4 QBs on the roster.

This is true and I think leinart will be under a lot of pressure which will lead to mistakes in the form of interceptions which he has always been good at. He started 1 game last year and threw 0 Tds and 3 Ints for the season...people seem to forget things. 14 Tds vs 20 Int for his career. The flip side is that side of the line is the side he faces being a lefty but I don't think it matters IMHO. I'm trying to avoid most of the AZ offense this year in life after Kurt.

 

[Joe T]

great read, thank youI was surprised at how often you two vastly disagreed on the various teams. This illustrates how difficult it is to asses value to an O line.If you compare O line rankings from other websites, they too are all over the board.

Agree. Their rankings are very different on several teams. I like Houston's offensive line. I was surprised to see them so low in the rankings.Also, I think a nice addition to the article would be a section on starters that have changed teams. The fact that guard Alan Faneca moving from NY Jets to Arizona is a major move. The Jets had the number 1 rushing offense last year, but lost one of their best run blockers who will likely be replaced by a rookie.I'd like to see a section of this article or a separate article just on O-line changes. Especially when you have pro-bowlers switching teams.