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Offensive Line Rankings (1 Viewer)

No kidding.

Black flat out sucks and looked horrible when Roaf was out.

RT is going to be average at best with Turley has to start right away. And LT could be Svitek, who is average. Sampson could start at RT instead of Turley though. He was slotted to start there before his illness/injury thing. If Black starts though at LT Green won't finish the year as Pryce and others simply abused him.

But with teh money available due to Roaf's retirement I'd be suprised if they didn't go to Welbourne begging him to come back for one more year.

 
Still working on the article (takes a long time)...

Here is a sneak peak at my top-sixteen. The actual article grades them in a number of different areas including pass blocking, depth, run blocking, cohension, experience, etc...

Team

Cincinnati Bengals

Denver Broncos

Pittsburgh Steelers

Chicago Bears

Kansas City Chiefs

Washington Redskins

New York Giants

Miami Dolphins

Seattle Seahawks

Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Bucs jump from 32nd in '05 to 10th! :thumbup:

 
Reading the rankings here and the other rankings provided by the links in this thread...

why do I get the feeling that no one can really accurately predict the future quality and effectiveness of a group of five guys.

These rankings are all over the board. Wild speculation.

Look at all the guessing going on over just 1 running back or WR -- trying to predict how 5 guys are going to perform seem meaningless.

Hasn't stopped me from trying to figure it out though

 
Reading the rankings here and the other rankings provided by the links in this thread...why do I get the feeling that no one can really accurately predict the future quality and effectiveness of a group of five guys. These rankings are all over the board. Wild speculation.
Newteech -- function of the source vs. the rankings. Just like random fantasy rankings vs. quality stuff like FBG. May be all over the board, but those that use them know FBG are pretty darn good.As for o-line rankings, all due respect to those posted, there are two sources that have quality o-line rankings IMO: Footballoutsiders and FootballDocs.For the most part, people aren't quite as familiar with o-line rankings, so it is a little tough to figure out the good from the not so good. When the smoke clears in 2006 and if you store them somewhere, you will see the above two will be in the arena of the good. Very nice in-depth work done to isolate line contribution to team success at both sites IMO.
 
'][QUOTE=newteech]Reading the rankings here and the other rankings provided by the links in this thread... why do I get the feeling that no one can really accurately predict the future quality and effectiveness of a group of five guys. These rankings are all over the board. Wild speculation. [/QUOTE]Newteech -- function of the source vs. the rankings. Just like random fantasy rankings vs. quality stuff like FBG. May be all over the board said:
I've completed my OL article and it is coming down the pipeline. I have probably spent a total of 50 hours now dissecting, organization, analyzing and compiling my thoughts into one very indepth article...Who was the best run blocking unit last season?

Who had the best pass blocking in 2005?

Who gave up the most sacks?

Who is the most improved?

Who has the strongest starting lineup?

Which team has the best depth?

Which players give up too many sacks?

Which players take too many penalites?

Which players are consistently great?

Which teams are terrific in spite of middling talent?

Each of the offensive lines is graded in a number of areas and I attempt to look past the skilled players performing for each team and instead really dive into the schemes, coaching and talent of each of the offensive lines in the NFL...

I am really proud of the feature and I will put my rankings, grades, predictions up against anybody else's across the net or publishing world.

Hopefully it will make its way to the net in the next couple of days. I think you will all enjoy the read!
 
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Still working on the article (takes a long time)...

Here is a sneak peak at my top-sixteen. The actual article grades them in a number of different areas including pass blocking, depth, run blocking, cohension, experience, etc...

Team

Cincinnati Bengals

Denver Broncos

Pittsburgh Steelers

Chicago Bears

Kansas City Chiefs

Washington Redskins

New York Giants

Miami Dolphins

Seattle Seahawks

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Minnesota Vikings

Jacksonville Jaguars

Atlanta Falcons

Baltimore Ravens

Philadelphia Eagles

New England Patriots
Wow Chris! Minny not even in the top 10?!?! I'd really like to hear your reasoning on that! :eek:
I have just completed the article and re-adjusted the scores / rankings for the teams... My top 15 changed from the one above. The Chiefs have obviously dropped down and some teams have jumped up and down the list. Without the commentary and thought processes though, these are just numbers on a page. Some teams are mentioned to have significantly higher upside while others are pointed out as a definitely possibility to fall down the list.

I have attempted to look at both individual and collective talent and pointed out the positives and negatives for each.

So here are my final rankings (top-15) after completing my analysis of each of the 32 teams... It is much better with all the other statistics, projections and predictions included with each though...Read the article when it is posted and give me your thoughts then...

Team

Cincinnati Bengals

Denver Broncos

Pittsburgh Steelers

Chicago Bears

New York Giants

Washington Redskins

Minnesota Vikings

Miami Dolphins

Kansas City Chiefs

Seattle Seahawks

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Atlanta Falcons

Baltimore Ravens

Philadelphia Eagles

 
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Good job, Chris. I definitely place a lot of value on your rankings, because I know the time and effort you put into them. Very quality stuff.

One quick question. Did you see that the Broncos just landed Adam Meadows? I know it's unlikely to affect your rankings any (really, they're second, where can they go?), I was just making sure you'd seen, because I figure you'd like to be thorough.

As a question- I really know nothing about him, except that he signed a pretty big deal with the Panthers the year after they went to the SB. Do you remember him or have any old notes on him? Is he an above-average tackle? A below-average tackle? Does he push George Foster for the starting job, or is he nothing more than quality depth?

 
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Still working on the article (takes a long time)...

Here is a sneak peak at my top-sixteen. The actual article grades them in a number of different areas including pass blocking, depth, run blocking, cohension, experience, etc...

Team

Cincinnati Bengals

Denver Broncos

Pittsburgh Steelers

Chicago Bears

Kansas City Chiefs

Washington Redskins

New York Giants

Miami Dolphins

Seattle Seahawks

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Minnesota Vikings

Jacksonville Jaguars

Atlanta Falcons

Baltimore Ravens

Philadelphia Eagles

New England Patriots
Wow Chris! Minny not even in the top 10?!?! I'd really like to hear your reasoning on that! :eek:
I have just completed the article and re-adjusted the scores / rankings for the teams... My top 15 changed from the one above. The Chiefs have obviously dropped down and some teams have jumped up and down the list. Without the commentary and thought processes though, these are just numbers on a page. Some teams are mentioned to have significantly higher upside while others are pointed out as a definitely possibility to fall down the list.

I have attempted to look at both individual and collective talent and pointed out the positives and negatives for each.

So here are my final rankings (top-15) after completing my analysis of each of the 32 teams... It is much better with all the other statistics, projections and predictions included with each though...Read the article when it is posted and give me your thoughts then...

Team

Cincinnati Bengals

Denver Broncos

Pittsburgh Steelers

Chicago Bears

New York Giants

Washington Redskins

Minnesota Vikings

Miami Dolphins

Kansas City Chiefs

Seattle Seahawks

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Atlanta Falcons

Baltimore Ravens

Philadelphia Eagles
Seahawks too low even with the loss of hutch, but that seems to be the norm in these rankings. I remember Seattle was ranked like 15th or something last year. Pork Chop is good and Locklear will become one of the best RT in the league sooner than later. And who could forget their 1st Round draft pick Centre in the wings behind their Pro Bowl Centre.

 
Good job, Chris. I definitely place a lot of value on your rankings, because I know the time and effort you put into them. Very quality stuff.

One quick question. Did you see that the Broncos just landed Adam Meadows? I know it's unlikely to affect your rankings any (really, they're second, where can they go?), I was just making sure you'd seen, because I figure you'd like to be thorough.

As a question- I really know nothing about him, except that he was a starting tackle for the Panthers when they went to the superbowl. Do you remember him or have any old notes on him? Is he an above-average tackle? A below-average tackle? Does he push George Foster for the starting job, or is he nothing more than quality depth?
Thanks SSOG...There is no chance that Meadows will unseat Foster for the starting position. Foster has improved by leaps and bounds over the past two seasons, has gotten his weight under control which was a big problem for him in the past and is cemented in the starting lineup.

Meadows was a pretty good starting lineman back in the day with the Colts but it is unclear just how effective he can be after missing the previous two seasons...

At best he will slot in as a backup this season.

 
Still working on the article (takes a long time)...

Here is a sneak peak at my top-sixteen. The actual article grades them in a number of different areas including pass blocking, depth, run blocking, cohension, experience, etc...

Team

Cincinnati Bengals

Denver Broncos

Pittsburgh Steelers

Chicago Bears

Kansas City Chiefs

Washington Redskins

New York Giants

Miami Dolphins

Seattle Seahawks

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Minnesota Vikings

Jacksonville Jaguars

Atlanta Falcons

Baltimore Ravens

Philadelphia Eagles

New England Patriots
Wow Chris! Minny not even in the top 10?!?! I'd really like to hear your reasoning on that! :eek:
I have just completed the article and re-adjusted the scores / rankings for the teams... My top 15 changed from the one above. The Chiefs have obviously dropped down and some teams have jumped up and down the list. Without the commentary and thought processes though, these are just numbers on a page. Some teams are mentioned to have significantly higher upside while others are pointed out as a definitely possibility to fall down the list.

I have attempted to look at both individual and collective talent and pointed out the positives and negatives for each.

So here are my final rankings (top-15) after completing my analysis of each of the 32 teams... It is much better with all the other statistics, projections and predictions included with each though...Read the article when it is posted and give me your thoughts then...

Team

Cincinnati Bengals

Denver Broncos

Pittsburgh Steelers

Chicago Bears

New York Giants

Washington Redskins

Minnesota Vikings

Miami Dolphins

Kansas City Chiefs

Seattle Seahawks

Tampa Bay Buccaneers

Jacksonville Jaguars

Atlanta Falcons

Baltimore Ravens

Philadelphia Eagles
Seahawks too low even with the loss of hutch, but that seems to be the norm in these rankings. I remember Seattle was ranked like 15th or something last year. Pork Chop is good and Locklear will become one of the best RT in the league sooner than later. And who could forget their 1st Round draft pick Centre in the wings behind their Pro Bowl Centre.
Read the write-up for the Hawks and then dissect my rankings :) Locklear is improving but is nowhere near 'one of the best' right tackles in the game today. Perhaps by 2007 but that doesn't help their ranking this season.

The Hawks have a good offensive line. How effective they will be without Hutch is open to debate.

 
Surprised no one has mentioned that Arizona has lost their starting RT, Olivier Ross, for the next 10 weeks with a knee injury.

 
Donnybrook -- normally I would say good call and thanks for the update...

BUT, when you have the worst o-line in the league (at least run blocking), does it really matter? In fact, maybe it will help :D

People are going to get SO BURNED when taking James this year. I can't believe his ADP is 6TH???? Rookies.

 
' said:
Donnybrook -- normally I would say good call and thanks for the update...BUT, when you have the worst o-line in the league (at least run blocking), does it really matter? In fact, maybe it will help :D People are going to get SO BURNED when taking James this year. I can't believe his ADP is 6TH???? Rookies.
he is my keeper this year :( but a 2nd rounder
 
Beg to differ with Chris.  The Washington OL situation is 100% NOT a top five situation by any means.  Arguably their best lineman, Thomas, is still recovering from significant surgery.  Don't even know if they know the timetable for his return yet.  Can we assume he'll just pick up where he left off?  Rabach and Jansen are also recovering from surgery, with Rabach's the more serious of the two.  Depth is even more of a concern than last year now that the Old Man has retired and so many of the starters have question marks.

The best stats that Chris has marshalled to support his claim: 7th in rushing yards, 9th in YPC, and 12th in rushing TDs, etc. don't persuade me that they are deserving of such a lofty ranking, especially considering that those stats were compiled when they were a healthy line last year.

Let's also not forget the Skins dismal offensive performance in last year's playoffs.  Is Thomas' return going to make that much (top five) of a difference, even assuming that he comes back completely healthy in time for the start of the season.
Some good comments here.However everything I have read this off-season has all five linemen being healthy by training camp.

BTW: Thomas is not the best lineman this unit has. He is behind Samuels, Dockery and Jansen when it comes to blocking ability.

Sure they struggled during the post-season but this unit was banged up by that point and it showed. If they suffer injuries this season the play will slip signficantly but that is true of many OLines and when healthy, it is very difficult to beat this starting five.

If the injuries linger into training camp, my grade for this unit will plummet, but at this point in time I believe I have them slotted in well.

I will re-visit the OLine stuff once training camp arrives to tweak my rankings, thought processes, etc.

:thumbup:
I'll join the discussion. Rabach isn't recovering from surgery - he's recovering from lacerations and road rash from an ATV accident back in March IIRC. There were no orthopedic problems to my knowledge and I've heard nothing about complications. This seems like old news to me.

Thomas was indeed the best lineman last year. If you watch game film he was dynamic and dominant and played with a mean streak. It hurt them a lot to lose him, but they could have done worse under the circumstances than Ray Brown.

Jansen played last year - the first year back from reconstructive knee surgery - with two broken thumbs. Aside from the fact that the second year back on a knee tends to be better than the first, two healthy hands will also improve his prospects.

Samuels is all about injury. If his legs are healthy - and they've been the biggest problem over the last 3 years or so - then he's about as good as any LT out there. If not, then he can be beat for sacks. It really is that simple.

Dockery, who is absolutely massive and yet still mobile enough to pull, could be dominant but for some reason doesn't quite reach that potential. Still, he's sturdy at LG.

I agree that depth is a problem.
I'm updating the bolded part on Rabach. According to Redskins watchers, he's had a poor beginning to camp. For example, he was twice manhandled and thrown to the ground by DT Ryan Boschetti in 1v1 blocking drills, and Boschetti is far from being a starting caliber DT. He only today or yesterday had the last stiches removed from his injured leg which got the laceration from the ATV accident. I was surprised because that accident was months ago, in April I think.

I don't know where this will go, but it's something to keep an eye on for at least the first preseason game or two. Washington does not have a lot of o-line depth anyway, but they're probably thinnest at the center spot.

 
The Colts struggle against 3-4 Ds, and generally thrive against 4-3 Ds (Jax is the exception - but they are their main division rival and have two exceptional DTs so that is to be expected). It really is that simple. That is why I'm puzzled that the Texans switched to a 4-3 from a 3-4.
Simple answer..... they went out and got a 4-3 system HC. Most coaches have the system they prefer and are comfortable with...... and I think that is a common weakness that almost 100% of NFL coaches have. They install a system, and try to find players that fit, instead of tailoring the system to fit the personnel instead. The Texans drafting M Williams is a classic example. The Jets are doing the same thing, but to what extent remains to be seen. GB is going to zone blocking on offense. Why? Because that is the system the new CS is comfortable with.

I see a lot of coaches come in and attempt to shove the square peg into the round hole, especially on offense. Spurrier, Gibbs, Parcells.... they all do this. Only Belichick is flexable. And, he has the rings to prove that it isn't the system, it's about using the players a team has to best advantage.
I totally disagree with your characterization of Parcells. There can be no doubt that every coach tries to draft his type of guy. TO me, what characterized Parcells was his ability to alter his schemes to take advantage of the talent he had. Lawrence Taylor didn't remake the WOLB position by himself - Parcells played his defense to that talent. On offense, Drew Bledsoe ran an entirely different offense than Phil Simms. And Parcells always managed to get important contributions from role players, best seen in his time with the Jets, when he took good advantage of Leon Johnson, Pepper Johnson and Keith Byars. I'm not sure which strategy is better, by the way. On some level, what Parcells and Bilichick do is seen as more impressive, but I don't know. Tampa was a dominant team running a system, the Colts are serious contenders every year, and Pittsburgh just won the Superbowl. Even Baltimore got a superbowl out of this strategy.

Also, a beef with FBG mag ranking the Jets O-line at #17. Whether they are that good is one question, about which reasonable people can disagree. But if you really think the NYJ O-line will be average, don't you have to predict better numbers for the offense?

 
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The Jets? They have a lower tier o-line at best. That is why they went after Ferguson -- it sorely needed help. Rookie will have to learn like all rookies do how talented and FAST DL in NFL are. Jets are near the bottom of the league in pass protection... #17 is WAY too optimistic IMO. I'd say more like #27 - #28 at best.

 
Good job, Chris. I definitely place a lot of value on your rankings, because I know the time and effort you put into them. Very quality stuff.

One quick question. Did you see that the Broncos just landed Adam Meadows? I know it's unlikely to affect your rankings any (really, they're second, where can they go?), I was just making sure you'd seen, because I figure you'd like to be thorough.

As a question- I really know nothing about him, except that he was a starting tackle for the Panthers when they went to the superbowl. Do you remember him or have any old notes on him? Is he an above-average tackle? A below-average tackle? Does he push George Foster for the starting job, or is he nothing more than quality depth?
Thanks SSOG...There is no chance that Meadows will unseat Foster for the starting position. Foster has improved by leaps and bounds over the past two seasons, has gotten his weight under control which was a big problem for him in the past and is cemented in the starting lineup.

Meadows was a pretty good starting lineman back in the day with the Colts but it is unclear just how effective he can be after missing the previous two seasons...

At best he will slot in as a backup this season.
While I doubt Meadows will see the starting lineup barring an injury, Foster is limited by his lack of determination. He has the talent but he doesn't have the drive. Check out the Orange Mane Daily reports on O-Line to see what I mean. Don't forget he did lose playing time last year and some of it wasn't because he was injured.
 
Good job, Chris. I definitely place a lot of value on your rankings, because I know the time and effort you put into them. Very quality stuff.

One quick question. Did you see that the Broncos just landed Adam Meadows? I know it's unlikely to affect your rankings any (really, they're second, where can they go?), I was just making sure you'd seen, because I figure you'd like to be thorough.

As a question- I really know nothing about him, except that he was a starting tackle for the Panthers when they went to the superbowl. Do you remember him or have any old notes on him? Is he an above-average tackle? A below-average tackle? Does he push George Foster for the starting job, or is he nothing more than quality depth?
Thanks SSOG...There is no chance that Meadows will unseat Foster for the starting position. Foster has improved by leaps and bounds over the past two seasons, has gotten his weight under control which was a big problem for him in the past and is cemented in the starting lineup.

Meadows was a pretty good starting lineman back in the day with the Colts but it is unclear just how effective he can be after missing the previous two seasons...

At best he will slot in as a backup this season.
While I doubt Meadows will see the starting lineup barring an injury, Foster is limited by his lack of determination. He has the talent but he doesn't have the drive. Check out the Orange Mane Daily reports on O-Line to see what I mean. Don't forget he did lose playing time last year and some of it wasn't because he was injured.
Good stuff. :yes:
 
Chris Smith, I want to give this a bump. Thanks for the hard work you put into your picks. This is one of the many reasons why this site is so good.

Thanks

 
Good article from the Washington Post outlining the Redskins' lack of established depth at the o-line:

Redskins Look for Depth on The Line

Backups Likely To Play Key Roles

By Jason La Canfora

Washington Post Staff Writer

Wednesday, August 9, 2006; E01

After a 20-year career, offensive lineman Ray Brown now is happily retired and contemplating a future in broadcasting. The Washington Redskins' most trusted remaining backup, third-year tackle Jim Molinaro, is scheduled for surgery to repair torn meniscus in his knee today. The five players comprising the second-team offensive line during yesterday's practices had a grand total of 27 NFL starts among them, and three of them have yet to appear in a regular season game.

For the first time in the second Joe Gibbs era, the Redskins are heading into the preseason without proven depth at offensive line. Coming off a season in which four starting linemen suffered significant injuries, their ability to cultivate adequate understudies could become a telltale subplot of 2006. Even the most ardent football junkie would have a hard time identifying the non-starters on the offensive line in this camp, although it stands to reason that at least a few of the role players will be called on at some point.

Ensuring the health of starting quarterback Mark Brunell, who turns 36 next month, is imperative, especially given the limited starting experience of the backup passers, and that chore falls most heavily to the line. Starting tackles Jon Jansen (broken thumbs) and Chris Samuels (two knee arthroscopies), guard Randy Thomas (broken leg, high ankle sprain) and center Casey Rabach (torn rotator cuff and serious leg lacerations) are recovering from injuries and played through considerable pain at various points last season. When Molinaro was carted from Monday's practice, the anxiety level of Joe Bugel, who oversees the offensive line, escalated again.

"The second group, that's what we were really worried about," said Bugel, who anticipates Molinaro will miss at least a few weeks. "When Molinaro went down, everybody was playing left tackle. But the young kids are looking pretty good. I think you're going to see some of the cream coming to the top."

Gibbs said he was comfortable with the offensive line depth throughout the offseason, even with Brown retiring and veteran backup center Cory Raymer leaving. The team addressed the area with a collection of low-round draft picks, undrafted players and obscure free agents, but beyond the five starters (who also include left guard Derrick Dockery, who dropped 20 pounds in the offseason), the Redskins do not have an offensive lineman who played regularly in 2005.

"You never could have enough offensive linemen, but certainly I feel confident [in the depth], or comfortable, I'll put it that way," Gibbs said. "That's a better way of putting it."

In Molinaro's absence, Tyson Walter, a four-year veteran who did not appear in a game for Houston last season despite the Texans allowing 14 more sacks than any other NFL team, was switched to left tackle with the second team. Chris Pino, an undrafted rookie from San Diego State, is at right tackle. Pino's college teammate, Jasper Harvey, another undrafted rookie, is playing right guard after playing center in college. Mike Pucillo, a four-year NFL veteran who started six games for Cleveland last season and has played primarily at guard, is the center. Ikechuku Ndukwe (on the Redskins' practice squad last season) is at left guard.

"That five is just starting to come together," said Bugel, who added that the team is not pursuing additional line help. "It's been some tough love now, beating them down, kicking them, doing everything, But they keep responding. They're doing a great job."

Ideally, few if any of those unknowns would be stepping on the field when the games really count. The Redskins were able to keep their offensive line intact for 13 full games last season -- Thomas broke his leg in the 14th -- but once Thomas went down, the running game in particular was never the same. And this year, there's no Brown, a smart guard and tackle, to plug in.

"Hopefully, this year the injuries don't happen to us," Rabach said. "But if they do, we know we've got guys who can push through it and do whatever they can to keep playing."

Pucillo has the best pedigree of the second-team linemen and was brought in for cover at center and guard. The lack of established backup linemen on Washington's roster did not go unnoticed when he hit the free agent market. "That was definitely one of the main things I looked at: What kind of depth do they have?" Pucillo said. "I came in here and they made me feel wanted and I felt like there was an opportunity, so when I came here to visit I signed that day."

This coaching staff has a history of unearthing talent among undrafted linemen ("We've been lucky with that," Bugel said), and Bugel sees potential in this group. He has particularly been surprised by the emergence of Pino and Harvey. "I've got to prove I belong here," said Harvey, one of 15 linemen in camp. "And that I can be a solid backup in the NFL if I have the shot."

Bugel worked with the second-string linemen during yesterday's practices, pointing out nuances and harping on technique. The preseason opener is Sunday night in Cincinnati, when the real evaluation of depth begins. The starting line will play a decent portion of the game, Bugel said, considering it missed much offseason work because of injuries, but sorting out the role players will be even more imperative.

"I'm really happy with those kids right now," Bugel said. "But Sunday night, that's the true test."

© 2006 The Washington Post Company
For whatever it's worth, Molinaro was decidedly unimpressive in camp before getting injured, and the word was he was in danger of being cut. They're particularly thin at tackle, but then I guess most teams are.
 
After watching my Raiders in their 1st preseason game I would have to say they have the worst group.. They were totally dominated by Philly.. Brooks has no chance if this continues... He had zero time and will make a lot of mistakes being forced to throw the ball.. It is very possible he will have a very bad year and be replaced by Walter as the season progresses. I rather see Walter now. :)

 
After watching my Raiders in their 1st preseason game I would have to say they have the worst group.. They were totally dominated by Philly.. Brooks has no chance if this continues... He had zero time and will make a lot of mistakes being forced to throw the ball.. It is very possible he will have a very bad year and be replaced by Walter as the season progresses. I rather see Walter now. :)
I've never understood this thinking. If you're rooting for Walter to succeed (and that's what it sounds like you're doing IMHO) then why would you want the line he'll play behind to suck enough for Brooks to fail? It's not like Walter's going to make many plays with his feet, and he's an especially raw prospect who if anything could use another year or two on the bench before he should get into games. Anyway, as unimpressive as the Oakland line was pass blocking, I thought they opened holes nicely for Jordan on running plays. This may be a team that needs to run the ball 500 times this year to shorten games and control the clock.
 
After watching my Raiders in their 1st preseason game I would have to say they have the worst group.. They were totally dominated by Philly.. Brooks has no chance if this continues... He had zero time and will make a lot of mistakes being forced to throw the ball.. It is very possible he will have a very bad year and be replaced by Walter as the season progresses. I rather see Walter now. :)
I've never understood this thinking. If you're rooting for Walter to succeed (and that's what it sounds like you're doing IMHO) then why would you want the line he'll play behind to suck enough for Brooks to fail? It's not like Walter's going to make many plays with his feet, and he's an especially raw prospect who if anything could use another year or two on the bench before he should get into games. Anyway, as unimpressive as the Oakland line was pass blocking, I thought they opened holes nicely for Jordan on running plays. This may be a team that needs to run the ball 500 times this year to shorten games and control the clock.
Don't get too caught up in what happens, preseason week one. There are players in new spots within a new scheme and it takes time to gel against an aggressive defense such as the Eagles...It is a situation to watch over the next few weeks though as I agree the OL looked pretty sad in that first effort... I don't expect it to stay that way with Art Shell as HC.
 
BTW::: I am going to put together an update when it comes to the OLs during the next week or so... It won't be indepth like the OL subscriber article but more of a 'what's changed?' type of feature...

Hopefully it will be ready by the middle to end of next week.

Thanks for all the emails in regards to the OL stuff everyone. Was great to hear from so many of our subscribers :thumbup:

 
The Jets? They have a lower tier o-line at best. That is why they went after Ferguson -- it sorely needed help. Rookie will have to learn like all rookies do how talented and FAST DL in NFL are. Jets are near the bottom of the league in pass protection... #17 is WAY too optimistic IMO. I'd say more like #27 - #28 at best.
Well, I think #28 or so was accurate based on who was playing last year, but they lost all of their starters last year. This year, the right side of the line that blocked for Martin's 1,697 is back, young, and healthy, and Kendall is back in the left guard slot. The two rookies are at C and LT, but you have to beleive that they will be better than what happened last year, even if they do have some inconsistencies. I'd say about #24 sounds right - upper end of the lowest third in the NFL, with potential to be playing much better than that by the time the games don't count.
 
I'd agree with that. #24 OK for Jets, but about the max I would personally like to see them. My original comment was in response to seeing them #17 --- that is right on the fringe of being in the top half of the league, something that is not warranted IMO.

 
After watching my Raiders in their 1st preseason game I would have to say they have the worst group.. They were totally dominated by Philly.. Brooks has no chance if this continues... He had zero time and will make a lot of mistakes being forced to throw the ball.. It is very possible he will have a very bad year and be replaced by Walter as the season progresses. I rather see Walter now. :)
I've never understood this thinking. If you're rooting for Walter to succeed (and that's what it sounds like you're doing IMHO) then why would you want the line he'll play behind to suck enough for Brooks to fail? It's not like Walter's going to make many plays with his feet, and he's an especially raw prospect who if anything could use another year or two on the bench before he should get into games. Anyway, as unimpressive as the Oakland line was pass blocking, I thought they opened holes nicely for Jordan on running plays. This may be a team that needs to run the ball 500 times this year to shorten games and control the clock.
The main reason is if the line plays well Brooks should too.. Some of the things that make a good QB a great QB is time. Most QB's can read a D if they have time and the play runs as scripted timing wise. The great ones can process that info quicker when forced to make a decision. Brooks obviously isn't that good to do that as with evidence of the first preseason game. He looked paniced when forced to make those decision. Now I know you can't turn on a switch and see the offensive line turn it on when Walter is under center but I believe from what I saw of him he has that ability to read quicker hence make better decisions and throws with less time. At least this is IMO. :)
 
After watching my Raiders in their 1st preseason game I would have to say they have the worst group.. They were totally dominated by Philly.. Brooks has no chance if this continues... He had zero time and will make a lot of mistakes being forced to throw the ball.. It is very possible he will have a very bad year and be replaced by Walter as the season progresses. I rather see Walter now. :)
I've never understood this thinking. If you're rooting for Walter to succeed (and that's what it sounds like you're doing IMHO) then why would you want the line he'll play behind to suck enough for Brooks to fail? It's not like Walter's going to make many plays with his feet, and he's an especially raw prospect who if anything could use another year or two on the bench before he should get into games. Anyway, as unimpressive as the Oakland line was pass blocking, I thought they opened holes nicely for Jordan on running plays. This may be a team that needs to run the ball 500 times this year to shorten games and control the clock.
The main reason is if the line plays well Brooks should too.. Some of the things that make a good QB a great QB is time. Most QB's can read a D if they have time and the play runs as scripted timing wise. The great ones can process that info quicker when forced to make a decision. Brooks obviously isn't that good to do that as with evidence of the first preseason game. He looked paniced when forced to make those decision. Now I know you can't turn on a switch and see the offensive line turn it on when Walter is under center but I believe from what I saw of him he has that ability to read quicker hence make better decisions and throws with less time. At least this is IMO. :)
Ok, I see your logic sort of. I drafted Walter last year so I am rooting for him from a fantasy perspective, but to me he looks a lot like Drew Bledsoe, but with a less impressive pedigree. I think he'll benefit from another year on the bench, kind of like Rivers did, because while I too did see him trying to make reads the fact is that he holds the ball too long. He's going to get himself killed against the likes of Shawn Merriman if he does that this year. My selfish hope is that Brooks holds the job this year and takes the beating that this line and offensive scheme seem destined to impart to him, and then Walter gets the job next year with a better line and a new coordinator. To clarify, I think that Tom Walsh is garbage and that his offense was responsible for a lot of offensive woes the first go-round he had with Shell and the Raiders.

 
Article profiling the 'Skins o-line situation, especially backups

Redskins' line depth a work in progress

By David Elfin

THE WASHINGTON TIMES

Published August 18, 2006

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Joe Bugel got a sick feeling watching his reserves play on the offensive line in the preseason opener for the Washington Redskins.

"I almost turned my back on them and threw up," said Bugel, the Redskins' assistant head coach/offense.

Bugel's starters, four of whom underwent surgery in the offseason, performed well in the 19-3 loss to the Bengals on Sunday in Cincinnati.

The backups, however, struggled badly, raising fears that the Redskins are one major injury away from disaster with a second unit that consists of tackles Tyson Walter and Jon Alston, guards Ike Ndukwe and Jasper Harvey and center Mike Pucillo.

Pucillo was the only player in that group to even play a down in the NFL last season. Walter has started just once since 2002. Alston and Ndukwe, both second-year players, didn't play at all last season. And Harvey is a rookie.

"Tyson, Mike and Ike did a nice job, but our young guys didn't realize the speed of the game," Bugel said. "[The Bengals] had their regulars in there. They were all lathered up, and it was here they come. Boom. Boom. Boom. There were some jailbreaks there."

The Redskins endured a similar situation last season, when 43-year-old Ray Brown, now retired, was their only reliable reserve at guard and tackle. Backup center Cory Raymer was pressed into service at guard in the season-ending playoff loss to the Seattle Seahawks following injuries to starter Randy Thomas and Brown, but he was cut in February.

The signings of Walter and Pucillo on March 24, the maturation of 2004 draft choice Jim Molinaro and the selection of guard Kili Lefotu in the seventh round in April were supposed to fix the problem.

However, Walter struggled at right guard in the Aug. 5 scrimmage against the Baltimore Ravens, Molinaro underwent arthroscopic surgery on his knee on Aug. 7, and Lefotu two days later was hospitalized after losing consciousness in his room.

The Redskins on Monday signed veteran tackle Spencer Folau, who was out of the NFL last season. If Folau performs well, the Redskins might survive because Bugel believes he has found the right spot for Walter, who like Pucillo and Folau, has started all over the line.

"[Walter] might become a fixture as a backup tackle," Bugel said. "He's a good pass blocker and he doesn't get nervous no matter where you play him."

Walter started the last eight games of the 2002 season for the Dallas Cowboys, but he became a virtual non-factor the next year after the hiring of coach Bill Parcells. Walter was cut by the Cowboys last summer and caught on with the Houston Texans, but he didn't get on the field.

"I'm a pretty savvy player with pretty good technique," said the 6-foot-4, 303-pound Walter, whose 49 starts are an Ohio State record. "I want to start, but I know my role. They're looking for depth. I'm happy with my progress this camp, but I still have a lot to work on at tackle."

The 6-foot-4, 311-pound Pucillo played with Redskins Robert Johnson, Jason Campbell, Carlos Rogers and Marcus Washington at Auburn and made the Buffalo Bills' roster as a seventh-round pick in 2002. Pucillo started 12 games at right guard in 2003, played little in 2004 and moved to the Cleveland Browns, where he started six games at three spots last season.

"It's a long season and you've got to have depth," said Pucillo, who admits he can't help but notice how the Browns are down to their fifth-string center. "I felt this was a good fit."

Bugel said Pucillo uses his hands especially well. Walter said his new pal "has good balance and a good, low center of gravity."

As for the 335-pound Ndukwe, who spent most of last season on the practice squad, Bugel said, "Ike is a work in progress. ... He's starting to play pretty good football. Ike can maul you, but the consistency factor hasn't been there."

But the consistency factor was there in Cincinnati during the starting line's 13 plays.

"They were getting the dust blown off, but they were real sharp," Bugel said with a grin.

Right tackle Jon Jansen, who had two surgeries on his right thumb, said, "You want to make sure that you've still got it."

They do. As Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels, who had a knee and elbow repaired, said "We stood up and played strong."
 

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