***Official 1/6 Select Committee thread*** (1 Viewer)

[jon_mx]

John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

 

[bigbottom]

John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

I really like this quote a lot. And it’s why I’m glad for your participation and contributions here. If you would only consider toning down the hostility and acrimony a bit, the points you make would be ever more plausible and persuasive. That goes for all of us, of course. Wishing you all the best, Jon. 

 

[The Commish]

I mean, I don't find it acceptable.

However, it is certainly 10,000 times more tolerable than a sitting President attempting to subvert the will of the people and democracy. That's where the outage belongs, not on some media sites reporting slant.

I get it....I just wish it wasn't so difficult to get basic, correct information in this country.  It's incredibly time consuming and tedious.  

 

[The Commish]

I don't care what consensus is.  Jon's right - consensus is often wrong, and a terrible reason to believe something.

Weigh the facts and trust the truth.  Don't trust group speak.

Feels like we're talking past each other.  In my view consensus comes FROM the facts and "truth" as you put it...it's not a replacement for it.  Meaning, sometimes an entire group of people can get something completely wrong because we simply don't know everything and we learn something new that negates all or part of the fact base we were operating on as we were developing consensus.

Take the current topic as an example.  Early days of this particular event we learned a bunch of stuff that lead a good many of us to label this an insurrection level act, right?  However, as time's gone on, we've learned that consensus was incorrect and for several, it's rising to the level of seditious conspiracy.  

I am FIRMLY in the bold group and to me, the largest "group" I can think of in this country is our media.  If one is looking at it through the lens of our media then they are likely being influenced by that more than just looking at the raw data/facts without that filter.  

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

I get it....I just wish it wasn't so difficult to get basic, correct information in this country.  It's incredibly time consuming and tedious.  

It really isn't.  Follow good sources.  There are lots of them.

 

[The Commish]

It really isn't.  Follow good sources.  There are lots of them.

In THIS country?  There are good sources, but you have to spend a TON of time weeding through all the nonsense to get to them.  I have found various substacks that seem pretty good, but for 95% of what I look for in headline topics, I go to sources outside our media machine.  It's significantly easier IMO.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

Rule #4:  "Don't throw the Bozo Bit"

 

[Prinefan]

Cipollone's testifying Friday for the committee.  They're climbing the ladder.  I know some folks are thinking DOJ should have charged people already, but I do think this is the right way.  As more rats leave the ship (with their depositions on the way), I do think they're going all the way to the top.  Only when all the evidence is presented will the criminal referrals come.  

 

[Amused to Death]

CNN — Trump White House Counsel Pat Cipollone has reached a deal with the January 6 committee to participate in a transcribed interview behind closed doors on Friday, multiple sources told CNN.

Cipollone will be appearing under subpoena. A source familiar with his thinking says Cipollone intended to comply with the subpoena issued on June 29 for a July 6 interview, and it was extended until July 8. The interview will be on video, two of the sources told CNN.

Cipollone, who many former administration officials credit with helping to prevent then-President Donald Trump from taking legally questionable actions in the months around the 2020 presidential election, has long been considered a key witness by the committee. He has resisted talking further with the committee after previously sitting for a closed-door interview on April 13.

 

[Dickies]

Lindsey, Rudy and The Kraken, come on down!

Good to see the states pushing forward here.  Lying to a grand jury is no joke -- and you can't be pardoned by the President for state crimes either.

Senator Lindsey Graham will not comply with subpoena in Georgia election probe

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Senator Lindsey Graham will not comply with subpoena in Georgia election probe

It seems like Graham's lawyers are inventing a new form of limited immunity that has not previously been recognized?

https://law.justia.com/constitution/us/article-1/21-compensation-and-immunities-of-members.html

His communications with the Georgia officials were not part of any speech or debate from the Senate floor.

 

[The Commish]

Never underestimate Lindsay...he has ZERO shame

He's made a career of "If you don't have something to hide, I don't see why you wouldn't want to talk with us" kinds of talking points and positions.

 

[lazyike]

Man, there was a lot of people getting coffee who no one knew in that White House. 

Maybe one of them was in charge of getting Diet Cokes?

 

[Prinefan]

Maybe one of them was in charge of getting Diet Cokes?

Thought it was a magic button?

 

[timschochet]

CNN — Trump White House Counsel Pat Cipollone has reached a deal with the January 6 committee to participate in a transcribed interview behind closed doors on Friday, multiple sources told CNN.

Cipollone will be appearing under subpoena. A source familiar with his thinking says Cipollone intended to comply with the subpoena issued on June 29 for a July 6 interview, and it was extended until July 8. The interview will be on video, two of the sources told CNN.

Cipollone, who many former administration officials credit with helping to prevent then-President Donald Trump from taking legally questionable actions in the months around the 2020 presidential election, has long been considered a key witness by the committee. He has resisted talking further with the committee after previously sitting for a closed-door interview on April 13.

Got to get him live in front of the cameras. Or it doesn’t mean anything. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Got to get him live in front of the cameras. Or it doesn’t mean anything. 

He may not agree to that, but it is apparently going to be on video that can be played for the public. I agree though it loses some of its impact.

 

[Coach Beard]

Thought it was a magic button?

To be fair, if I could make Diet Cokes materialize just by asking for one, I’d do it all the time. Even if I just wanted to throw the cans at stuff.  
(H/T to John Mulaney.)

 

[Coach Beard]

Got to get him live in front of the cameras. Or it doesn’t mean anything. 

I like the approach of closed-door testimony first and then determining if public testimony is warranted.  Better to see how cooperative and forthcoming Cipollone will be before putting him on TV.

 

[(HULK)]

I like the approach of closed-door testimony first and then determining if public testimony is warranted.  Better to see how cooperative and forthcoming Cipollone will be before putting him on TV.

This is Cipollone pushing it to not be on TV, not the other way around.

 

[apalmer]

Senator Lindsey Graham will not comply with subpoena in Georgia election probe

Setting up the stage for down the road: "If the Georgia Grand Jury wanted the truth, why didn't they talk to anyone on Trump's side?"

 

[Dickies]

Setting up the stage for down the road: "If the Georgia Grand Jury wanted the truth, why didn't they talk to anyone on Trump's side?"

I could see Graham making this argument

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Senator Lindsey Graham will not comply with subpoena in Georgia election probe

This post was 3 hours ago.  If this were you and me stating that, we would be arrested already.

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

Got to get him live in front of the cameras. Or it doesn’t mean anything. 

It doesn't mean anything no matter what.  Everything and everyone else are liars, RINO's, whatever.  The only thing important is complete control over the US by Trump and the republicans. . 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

John Stuart Mill, On Liberty

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them. But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion... Nor is it enough that he should hear the opinions of adversaries from his own teachers, presented as they state them, and accompanied by what they offer as refutations. He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them...he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

So what you're saying is that understanding liberal arguments "in their most plausible and persuasive form" has led you to the conclusion that we're all McCarthyite fascists and equivalent to Jim Crow-era lynch mobs?

 

[lazyike]

Got to get him live in front of the cameras. Or it doesn’t mean anything. 

The select commitee has had some effective impact from Barr's video taped interview so I disagree. It's not happening because of some executive privilege question concerns.

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

The select commitee has had some effective impact from Barr's video taped interview so I disagree. It's not happening because of some executive privilege question concerns.

I genuinely don’t understand this. Executive privilege doesn’t reside with the individual, it resides with the office of the presidency. Trump can’t assert EP, only Biden can. So how does Cippolone get away with it?

 

[2Squirrels1Nut]

I genuinely don’t understand this. Executive privilege doesn’t reside with the individual, it resides with the office of the presidency. Trump can’t assert EP, only Biden can. So how does Cippolone get away with it?

Because in this new world of "law and order" where subpoenas are purely optional for Republicans trying to overthrow the country he probably said he wouldn't testify unless behind closed doors. 

 

[ignatiusjreilly]

Because in this new world of "law and order" where subpoenas are purely optional for Republicans trying to overthrow the country he probably said he wouldn't testify unless behind closed doors. 

You're probably right. Of the many, many norms the Trump-era GOP has trashed, the evisceration of Congress' subpoena power may prove to be the most destructive in the long run

 

[jon_mx]

So what you're saying is that understanding liberal arguments "in their most plausible and persuasive form" has led you to the conclusion that we're all McCarthyite fascists and equivalent to Jim Crow-era lynch mobs?

I have to admit you all have been very persuasive in my coming to that conclusions. 

 

[Prinefan]

I have to admit you all have been very persuasive in my coming to that conclusions. 

Rod... check.    

Reel... check.

Bait... check.  

Cast and wait.....

 

[jon_mx]

Rod... check.    

Reel... check.

Bait... check.  

Cast and wait.....

 It is absolutely true.  I find your political prosecution's disgustingly bigoted.  The vileness and irrational extreme hatefullness in wanting the heads of people you disagree with.  I don't understand this level of hate where you want to not only silence people but are willing to destroy lives.  The latest insanity of watching young children getting pressured into being labeled by teachers and peer pressure for acceptance these asinine gender labels is the most stupidest and evil thing yet.  And then these brainsmwaahed children being treated with hormones and maybe even surgeries is disgusting. It is one thing for the truly sick child with a real mental disorder, but to push these beliefs and turn an extremely rare condition and make it an epidemic in perfectly healthy children is an evil scientic experiment that is destroying tens of thousands of lives if not more. 

 

[Prinefan]

 It is absolutely true.  I find your political prosecution's disgustingly bigoted.  The vileness and irrational extreme hatefullness in wanting the heads of people you disagree with.  I don't understand this level of hate where you want to not only silence people but are willing to destroy lives.  The latest insanity of watching young children getting pressured into being labeled by teachers and peer pressure for acceptance these asinine gender labels is the most stupidest and evil thing yet.  And then these brainsmwaahed children being treated with hormones and maybe even surgeries is disgusting. It is one thing for the truly sick child with a real mental disorder, but to push these beliefs and turn an extremely rare condition and make it an epidemic in perfectly healthy children is an evil scientic experiment that is destroying tens of thousands of lives if not more. 

I thought there was a different thread for this kind of "stuff".  

 

[jon_mx]

I thought there was a different thread for this kind of "stuff".  

It is all part of the same game.  Silence and destroy.  It does not make much difference whether it is Trump, his supporters, or young children.  It is all about power, control and creating this chaos for the totalitarian elitists.  I probably should go lighter on the minions who do not even realize the path they are being lead down. 

 

[the moops]

It is all part of the same game.  Silence and destroy.  It does not make much difference whether it is Trump, his supporters, or young children.

Silence? They all could come in and speak to the committee on national television and tell their side fo the story. They all refuse. Most of us want the opposite of silence from every single one of them

 

[jon_mx]

Silence? They all could come in and speak to the committee on national television and tell their side fo the story. They all refuse. Most of us want the opposite of silence from every single one of them

Really...is that why Pelosi rejected Jim Jordan and Jim Banks and then put only two token anti-Trump Republicans on.  It was a charade from day 1. 

 

[Amused to Death]

Spit the hook. Please. The conversation is now back to square one. Rinse/repeat.

 

[dozer]

Spit the hook. Please. The conversation is now back to square one. Rinse/repeat.

Thank you. If he really wanted to discuss those issues he’d start a thread. His goal is to get people suspended and shut down a thread.

 

[Amused to Death]

Thank you. If he really wanted to discuss those issues he’d start a thread. His goal is to get people suspended and shut down a thread.

If people don't have the facts at this point, its because they don't want them. 

 

[The Commish]

Really...is that why Pelosi rejected Jim Jordan and Jim Banks and then put only two token anti-Trump Republicans on.  It was a charade from day 1. 

The bold I DEFINITELY agree with....but this was day 1.....Jordan and Banks came well after  

I mean, 30+ GOPers from the House even signed on...squashed in the Senate

 

[jon_mx]

Thank you. If he really wanted to discuss those issues he’d start a thread. His goal is to get people suspended and shut down a thread.

Says the crowd who hit the report button like it is their sex partner.  

 

[Gilroy34]

Really...is that why Pelosi rejected Jim Jordan and Jim Banks and then put only two token anti-Trump Republicans on.  It was a charade from day 1. 

 

[sho nuff]

Owned?   Why should  Jim Jordan be on this committee?  Care to answer that?

 

[Gilroy34]

Owned?   Why should  Jim Jordan be on this committee?  Care to answer that?

Why should Adam Schiff be on the committee?

 

[sho nuff]

Why should Adam Schiff be on the committee?

Because he isn’t a possible subject of the investigation.

Care to try answering my question?  Or going to deflect once more?

 

[Gilroy34]

Because he isn’t a possible subject of the investigation.

Care to try answering my question?  Or going to deflect once more?

You know better.  At least I hope so.

 

[Amused to Death]

I see a new alias has entered the conversation seeking basic answers covered numerous times in this very thread. 

<sigh>

 

[sho nuff]

You know better.  At least I hope so.

Know better than to think you would answer a direct question?

Probably…but I ask again…why should Jim Jordan be on this committee?

 

[quick-hands]

Owned?   Why should  Jim Jordan be on this committee?  Care to answer that?

Because he was appointed.

 

[Amused to Death]

Because he was appointed.

And as a witness in the investigation he was correctly removed. Four other Republicans, appointed by McCarthy remained on the committee but subsequently removed by McCarthy. 

ETA:    

 

[sho nuff]

Because he was appointed.

And yet should be rejected as a possible subject of the investigation…right?