Please See Mine
Footballguy
I think he just said in the press conference that they ran it 12 times for an avg. of 5.4 yds.
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***Official 2009 Philadelphia Eagles Thread*** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Deranged Hermit
- Start date
stevegamer
Footballguy
The razzle-dazzle flea flicker was definitely "wildcat".
delusional
Footballguy
yea and a good amount of those plays were for first down. what kinda makes me angry is kolb passing 51 times in his first start.sure westbrook isnt healthy but thats why shadey is here yet he didnt get any carries really until westbrook was hurt..again.
I agree 100% I was very impressed overall with Kolb. He had a couple poor throws, but generally made good decisions, and stood tall in the pocket and DELIVERED under pressure. Ultimately, this loss was on the defense and special teams...not Kolb.Listening to ESPN2 right now, and the radio yesterday, I can't help but wonder what all these talking heads were watching, because it clearly wasn't the Eagles game other then the stat lines (which, really, was pretty darn good other then the picks column!) I don't think any QB would have won that game for the Eagles, let alone an old over-rated Garcia or un-ready Vick. McNabb wouldn't have done much better either.At this point, I'm salivating at the prospect of Kolb destroying the Chiefs next week, despite what the talking heads think.
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Jason Wood
Zoo York
I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well. 
Kolb is not a good QB.
Kolb is not a good QB.
Only the first pick seemed like an ugly one, and the third was in desperation time. You weren't impressed when he stood tall in a ferocious rush, and got creamed while delivering a perfect pass over the middle for a first down? I sure was.While the jury is certainly still out for this guy long-term, I truly believe you're selling him way too short right now.ETA: You discounted his pass to Jackson because Jackson was so open...but he hit him on a corner/crossing route (IE: NOT a fly) DEEP down the field in PERFECT stride. If Jackson had had to make a major adjustment to catch it, discounting the pass would make sense...but even good coverage would NOT have stopped that completion, because the pass was perfect.I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.Kolb is not a good QB.
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zadok
Footballguy
Unfortunately,Jason Wood said:I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.Kolb is not a good QB.
He was garbage especially in the 2nd half. Should have had 2 more INTs, just got lucky. Garcia/Vick would scare KC more and that's a fact.
Snotbubbles
Footballguy
But the first pick was the killer for the Birds. It was at an important time in the game, and it was at a place on the field where you absolutely can't afford a mistake. That INT ended the Eagles day.Only the first pick seemed like an ugly one, and the third was in desperation time. You weren't impressed when he stood tall in a ferocious rush, and got creamed while delivering a perfect pass over the middle for a first down? I sure was.While the jury is certainly still out for this guy long-term, I truly believe you're selling him way too short right now.ETA: You discounted his pass to Jackson because Jackson was so open...but he hit him on a corner/crossing route (IE: NOT a fly) DEEP down the field in PERFECT stride. If Jackson had had to make a major adjustment to catch it, discounting the pass would make sense...but even good coverage would NOT have stopped that completion, because the pass was perfect.I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.Kolb is not a good QB.
zadok
Footballguy
Damn you for not kidding about that.
Crusaderfan
Footballguy
JaxBill said:
Guess Kirkland wasn't available? 
Even though I hate the organization from the pompous head coach all the way up to the pompous owner - I do find them amusing. I think I hear laughter coming in all the way from Denver. 
crewmember
Footballguy
You have been awfully critical of a QB who has never made an nfl start and now a QB who has made 1 career start and thrown for 391 yards. You may be right that he is not a good QB but I don't think there is anyway you know. It's a guess or prediction at this point. I have seen much worse first starts.I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.Kolb is not a good QB.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
Not to mention it was really only 2 INTs that were due to reads or poor throws, which equals 1 int every 25 pass attempts which is real close to Brady & McNabbs life time average. Now imagine if we didnt count every QB's TD that were thrown against broken coverage or how about the ones when the WR makes a great move and causes a miss tackle. Those shouldnt count either.crewmember said:You have been awfully critical of a QB who has never made an nfl start and now a QB who has made 1 career start and thrown for 391 yards. You may be right that he is not a good QB but I don't think there is anyway you know. It's a guess or prediction at this point. I have seen much worse first starts.I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.Kolb is not a good QB.
I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.Kolb is not a good QB.
Kolb has looked pretty good. I'm not sold on him but he can be efficient. He has faced dreadful defenses (Saints are better defensively than last year, but still nothing to brag about) so idk. Kolb may be good but that doesn't really matter right now. Unless McNabb gets injured again, he shouldn't even see the field. I have some hope for the future, but this ain't the future.
Apparently not....I know it was just the Chiefs, but the kid played an excellant game. Only one ball was close to being picked, and their was obvious miscommunication on the route.So, to sumarize, Kolb showed courage in the face of a ferocious pass rush against N.O., but threw a couple bad balls which cost the Eagles. Against the Chiefs, he picked them apart with a strong, almost perfect performance.LOOKS LIKE A KEEPER!I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.
gonzobill5
Footballguy
I agree that he handled the rush well against NO, and he looked very accurate against the chiefs. He's still staring receivers down way too much. A good defense will make him pay for this. I thought his sideline throws had a lot more zip this week.Apparently not....I know it was just the Chiefs, but the kid played an excellant game. Only one ball was close to being picked, and their was obvious miscommunication on the route.So, to sumarize, Kolb showed courage in the face of a ferocious pass rush against N.O., but threw a couple bad balls which cost the Eagles. Against the Chiefs, he picked them apart with a strong, almost perfect performance.LOOKS LIKE A KEEPER!I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Sure, I'm never afraid to eat crow. Kolb played well yesterday, no denying that. Which makes my statement that he's an awful QB seem overtly harsh I'll grant you. I do want to emphasize to those who didn't watch or weren't there, the Chiefs are god awful. I mean really, REALLY bad in almost every facet of the game. Haley could be one and done at this point, and I really can't see Cassel keeping his job all year. But that said, Kolb did exactly what he needed to do against a bad defense, and made some nice, aggressive throws in the process. I liked that he took chances rather than dinking and dunking. As far as backups go, I'm certainly not as down on him as I was even two weeks ago. BUT, I swear I better not start hearing any ridiculous calls for Kolb to start over McNabb. Kolb is showing himself to be an adequate young backup, that's a far cry from being an above average QB that can win games for you on a consistent basis.I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.
Lehigh98
Footballguy
One thing I noticed, he seems to have a little trouble leading his receivers across the field.Had a few balls over the last two weeks well in front or behind the WR, those can turn into easy picks.But otherwise a pretty solid game out of Kolb once again. Definitely better than Vick and Garcia yesterday.Apparently not....I know it was just the Chiefs, but the kid played an excellant game. Only one ball was close to being picked, and their was obvious miscommunication on the route.So, to sumarize, Kolb showed courage in the face of a ferocious pass rush against N.O., but threw a couple bad balls which cost the Eagles. Against the Chiefs, he picked them apart with a strong, almost perfect performance.LOOKS LIKE A KEEPER!I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.
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Lehigh98
Footballguy
How about it? It's not often that I feel BAD for a team we're playing but I did yesterday. To know a team is sitting a ton of starters because they think you suck and still not be able to get up to give them any kind of game?... Ouch.How is Jamaal Charles not starting over Larry Johnson yet? LJ is basically averaging his height per carry.You'd think you could find someone who could pick up an extra yard or two before they just fall down.
babydemon90
Footballguy
Nice to see some progress out of Kolb. Still, would like to see him succeed against a good defense before I'm comfortable with him as McNabb's successor though.
Zoomanji
Footballguy
Don't worry, one bad game from McNabb and everyone will want the "white guy"Sure, I'm never afraid to eat crow. Kolb played well yesterday, no denying that. Which makes my statement that he's an awful QB seem overtly harsh I'll grant you. I do want to emphasize to those who didn't watch or weren't there, the Chiefs are god awful. I mean really, REALLY bad in almost every facet of the game. Haley could be one and done at this point, and I really can't see Cassel keeping his job all year. But that said, Kolb did exactly what he needed to do against a bad defense, and made some nice, aggressive throws in the process. I liked that he took chances rather than dinking and dunking. As far as backups go, I'm certainly not as down on him as I was even two weeks ago. BUT, I swear I better not start hearing any ridiculous calls for Kolb to start over McNabb. Kolb is showing himself to be an adequate young backup, that's a far cry from being an above average QB that can win games for you on a consistent basis.I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.
Kolb is not a good QB.
For some reason, you'll have that with McNabb and Philly no matter who's the backup. If Kolb hadn't played well, the fans would have been calling for Garcia or Vick. Luckily the FO is smart enough to realize this is McNabbs team. Even if he has a bad game or two, he is the best chance we have to win a superbowl. As for Kolb, I'm just glad to see some glimmer of hope from him. The FO was so high on this guy, this is the first time we've seen what they're talking about. He has a long way to go, but I'm much more optimistic he might be able to line up under center one day and be better than Detmer or Hoying. If nothing else, he just upped his trade value to a QB needy team.Don't worry, one bad game from McNabb and everyone will want the "white guy"Sure, I'm never afraid to eat crow. Kolb played well yesterday, no denying that. Which makes my statement that he's an awful QB seem overtly harsh I'll grant you. I do want to emphasize to those who didn't watch or weren't there, the Chiefs are god awful. I mean really, REALLY bad in almost every facet of the game. Haley could be one and done at this point, and I really can't see Cassel keeping his job all year. But that said, Kolb did exactly what he needed to do against a bad defense, and made some nice, aggressive throws in the process. I liked that he took chances rather than dinking and dunking. As far as backups go, I'm certainly not as down on him as I was even two weeks ago. BUT, I swear I better not start hearing any ridiculous calls for Kolb to start over McNabb. Kolb is showing himself to be an adequate young backup, that's a far cry from being an above average QB that can win games for you on a consistent basis.I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.
Kolb is not a good QB.
Fair enough. I do think he's shown enough that we can hold out at least a little bit of hope that he might actually be OK as the heir - apparent....but I whole-heartedly agree that this is, and should be, McNabb's team for the foreseeable future.Sure, I'm never afraid to eat crow. Kolb played well yesterday, no denying that. Which makes my statement that he's an awful QB seem overtly harsh I'll grant you. I do want to emphasize to those who didn't watch or weren't there, the Chiefs are god awful. I mean really, REALLY bad in almost every facet of the game. Haley could be one and done at this point, and I really can't see Cassel keeping his job all year. But that said, Kolb did exactly what he needed to do against a bad defense, and made some nice, aggressive throws in the process. I liked that he took chances rather than dinking and dunking. As far as backups go, I'm certainly not as down on him as I was even two weeks ago. BUT, I swear I better not start hearing any ridiculous calls for Kolb to start over McNabb. Kolb is showing himself to be an adequate young backup, that's a far cry from being an above average QB that can win games for you on a consistent basis.I ate my crow last week. You ready to eat yours, Jason?I'm not sure how three interceptions and a long TD thanks to tried and true broken coverage equates to playing well.Kolb is not a good QB.
Buddy Ball 2K3
Footballguy
A few questions for the people that have watched all of Kolbs two starts this season.
#1 - Where do you think Kolb needs to improve the most?
#2 - Does his game fit the "west coast offense"?
#3 - Which QB gives their WR's a better chance to to make a play?
#4 - Other than experience and mobility what is the biggest difference between McNabb and Kolb?
#1 - Where do you think Kolb needs to improve the most?
#2 - Does his game fit the "west coast offense"?
#3 - Which QB gives their WR's a better chance to to make a play?
#4 - Other than experience and mobility what is the biggest difference between McNabb and Kolb?
1: Not sure. I think he has a little bit too much gunslinger in him, and makes bad choices on occassion.2: Yes. Not sure it did 2 years ago, but it does now. He's accurate enough.
3: McNabb on a good day. But McNabb can be a little bit erratic in his accuracy sometimes. Accuracy makes all the differance in the world on a WR's chance to make something happen after the catch. I think Kolb will be more consistant in that area, although his completion percentage might not be that much better.
4: Kolb is more mobile then he's generally given credit for. Although he's not on McNabb's level, the differance is not as great as most people seem to think. McNabb is a playmaker, and STRONG. Kolb may be (almost) as mobile, but he won't routinely break arm-tackles from 300 pound lineman like McNabb does. It's that dynamic play-making ability that sets McNabb apart from Kolb (and many other QB's).
theToes
Footballguy
On the way home from work yestersday I was listening to ESPN 950 and they threw out an interesting question.
If the Dolphins called and offered a 2nd round pick in the draft next year for Vick would you take it?
They were cotemplating Vick before the Eagles signed him and with Pennington out of the season this may not be that far fetched.
If the Dolphins called and offered a 2nd round pick in the draft next year for Vick would you take it?
They were cotemplating Vick before the Eagles signed him and with Pennington out of the season this may not be that far fetched.
Lehigh98
Footballguy
In a heartbeat
thriftyrocker
Footballguy
The answer is yes, but the Dolphins don't want Vick. They have a QB of the future they need to evaluate as well as Pat White. They don't need a wildcat Mike Vick and they don't need a starting QB. They are already playing for next year. Most likely trade partner is Rams based on coaching staff (Spags/Shurmur) and I don't think they're in any rush to do well this year and will wait til summer to trade.
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crewmember
Footballguy
I'll say no chance because
1. Dolphins are 0-3
2. They drafted Pat White
3. Vick hasn't flashed his old-self yet
1. Dolphins are 0-3
2. They drafted Pat White
3. Vick hasn't flashed his old-self yet
Jason Wood
Zoo York
The fact we're re-signing Trotter for a 3rd time is baffling to me. In a league where Derrick Brooks can't find a suitor, we grab the Axeman again. Wow.
Lehigh98
Footballguy
They like guys they already know.
Jeff Pasquino
Footballguy
Amazed we got what we got for Greg Lewis - the closest thing to a cockroach in the NFL as I've ever seen.
Greg Lewis is a future HOFer. Just ask Favre.
Re: the Trotter signing -- I dont know if he got his legs back or not. The reasons I like this signing are:
1. A big MLB (>260 lbs) for the likes of Brandon Jacobs, MB III twice a year
2. The Eagles are actually recognizing their weaknesses and addressing them mid-season! First Garcia and now Trotter, two guys who know the system and could help.. When is the last time you can say that happened? Remember when our return specialists were horrible and it actually cost us games? How did the FO respond? They drafted Bloom in the next draft. I dont know if they're making all the right moves but the FO seems as desperate to win a SB as the fans now.
1. A big MLB (>260 lbs) for the likes of Brandon Jacobs, MB III twice a year
2. The Eagles are actually recognizing their weaknesses and addressing them mid-season! First Garcia and now Trotter, two guys who know the system and could help.. When is the last time you can say that happened? Remember when our return specialists were horrible and it actually cost us games? How did the FO respond? They drafted Bloom in the next draft. I dont know if they're making all the right moves but the FO seems as desperate to win a SB as the fans now.
Lehigh98
Footballguy
Disgusting
From the playcalling to the execution, the blocking, tackling, kicking, etc.
Not one thing I can think to point to as a positive from this game.
Had a golden opportunity with the Giants loss and playing a struggling Raiders team.
Next up, 2 straight NFC East games and then Chargers and Bears on the road.
We've dropped some early stinkiers in years past but this really makes me question what we could even do this year.
Thank god for the Phillies.
From the playcalling to the execution, the blocking, tackling, kicking, etc.
Not one thing I can think to point to as a positive from this game.
Had a golden opportunity with the Giants loss and playing a struggling Raiders team.
Next up, 2 straight NFC East games and then Chargers and Bears on the road.
We've dropped some early stinkiers in years past but this really makes me question what we could even do this year.
Thank god for the Phillies.
Meh, I wouldn't worry about it. The Eagles, and McNabb inparticular, have a game or two like this every year. They play totally craptastic against a far inferior team.Keep perspective. Other than the Saints game, the Birds have been playing very well this year. And they always seem to rise to the occasion for divisional games.Disgusting
Lehigh98
Footballguy
Right, so against 3 of the 4 horrible teams they played they looked pretty good.Against the other horrible team and the one good team they played they got their asses handed to them.What exactly should our perspective be here?Meh, I wouldn't worry about it. The Eagles, and McNabb inparticular, have a game or two like this every year. They play totally craptastic against a far inferior team.Keep perspective. Other than the Saints game, the Birds have been playing very well this year. And they always seem to rise to the occasion for divisional games.Disgusting :X
5 NFC title games in 8 years. Relax. East coast team playing on west coast and playing terrible. Happens quite a bit.Besides, if Akers can make kicks that are normally automatic for him, we're just talking about how we won but looked sloppy.Right, so against 3 of the 4 horrible teams they played they looked pretty good.Against the other horrible team and the one good team they played they got their asses handed to them.What exactly should our perspective be here?Meh, I wouldn't worry about it. The Eagles, and McNabb inparticular, have a game or two like this every year. They play totally craptastic against a far inferior team.Keep perspective. Other than the Saints game, the Birds have been playing very well this year. And they always seem to rise to the occasion for divisional games.Disgusting :X
Manster
Footballguy
a lot of folks were putting the eagles right near the top in the NFC...........before yesterday.Disgusting
Who would your 'top' of the NFC be? New Orleans, Minnesota, and the Giants are obviously the top three. After that, I'd have to put Green Bay, Chicago, Atlanta, and Philly in the next group. And all four of them have had bad games this year.a lot of folks were putting the eagles right near the top in the NFC...........before yesterday.Disgusting
Jason Wood
Zoo York
Disheartening for sure. Yes, we did the whole cross country travel thing which never seems to serve us well, but there was a lot to be concerned about in this game.
1) Offensive line -- King Dunlap was HORRENDOUS in place of Peters and the entire line fell apart as a result. We desperate need Todd Herremans to get right and hope that Peters is correct in saying he'll be back on the field in Week 7. If Peters is hurt significantly, we'll be without our planned LT/RT with concerns on the interior starters to boot (i.e., Herremans and Andrews). That's a recipe for failure.
2) Play-Calling -- I try to lay off the play-calling usually b/c you can't assail Reid's pass first mentality at the same time you praise the man's success. It's part and parcel. BUT, I do have to wonder at least a bit why we ran the ball 11 times in a close, road game. We averaged better than 6 yards a carry and our pass blocking was horrendous, yet we don't have more balance. Really?
3) Decision making -- McNabb taking the 'time out'? He was rattled by the pass rush, not that any QB wouldn't have been.
4) Linebacking play -- We've been disguising the LB weaknesses for years and even earlier this year, but we're starting to get exposed. The LBs are just not instinctive in coverage and gave up huge plays. Watching the game intently as I was, a really proficient offense would have SKEWERED us yesterday. There are gaping holes downfield that Russell wasn't seeing, but someone like Ryan or Cutler or Manning or even Romo certainly would have.
I think we are what our record says we are. A reasonably good team that will vie for a playoff spot, but not an elite team that has any real shot at a title run. Is there any question New Orleans, Minnesota and the Giants are better? I also think Atlanta is demonstrably better although I'm not ready to set that in stone. Are we a 5th/6th seed? Probably so.
1) Offensive line -- King Dunlap was HORRENDOUS in place of Peters and the entire line fell apart as a result. We desperate need Todd Herremans to get right and hope that Peters is correct in saying he'll be back on the field in Week 7. If Peters is hurt significantly, we'll be without our planned LT/RT with concerns on the interior starters to boot (i.e., Herremans and Andrews). That's a recipe for failure.
2) Play-Calling -- I try to lay off the play-calling usually b/c you can't assail Reid's pass first mentality at the same time you praise the man's success. It's part and parcel. BUT, I do have to wonder at least a bit why we ran the ball 11 times in a close, road game. We averaged better than 6 yards a carry and our pass blocking was horrendous, yet we don't have more balance. Really?
3) Decision making -- McNabb taking the 'time out'? He was rattled by the pass rush, not that any QB wouldn't have been.
4) Linebacking play -- We've been disguising the LB weaknesses for years and even earlier this year, but we're starting to get exposed. The LBs are just not instinctive in coverage and gave up huge plays. Watching the game intently as I was, a really proficient offense would have SKEWERED us yesterday. There are gaping holes downfield that Russell wasn't seeing, but someone like Ryan or Cutler or Manning or even Romo certainly would have.
I think we are what our record says we are. A reasonably good team that will vie for a playoff spot, but not an elite team that has any real shot at a title run. Is there any question New Orleans, Minnesota and the Giants are better? I also think Atlanta is demonstrably better although I'm not ready to set that in stone. Are we a 5th/6th seed? Probably so.
McNabb also reverted back to his throw-it-at-the-receivers' feet days. He seemed to have corrected that during his post-Cleveland game last year. Hopefully, it was something he'll realize and correct again. His improved accuracy is what took him from being benched last year to being a top ten league QB again.
It was Jamarcus RussellIt was the Raiders.Who would your 'top' of the NFC be? New Orleans, Minnesota, and the Giants are obviously the top three. After that, I'd have to put Green Bay, Chicago, Atlanta, and Philly in the next group. And all four of them have had bad games this year.a lot of folks were putting the eagles right near the top in the NFC...........before yesterday.Disgusting :X
stevegamer
Footballguy
#3 really relates to #2 - ATROCIUS play calling. Can someone please explain what Vick is doing in the game with that little time left in the half, when the offense needs a rhythym. It looked to me that Vick lined up wrong, which caused the play clock to run down. Yes, McNabb should've known they had no time outs, due to earlier burning of the things.It's really looking like Vick is simply a way to get the fanbase exicted & riled up simultaneously, to increase ticket sales. I don't think he's helping, and I think they have no clue how to use him.
Abandoning the run against the Raiders is inexcusable.
This is a team, that can't afford to lose to the Raiders of the world. The most important thing for the Eagles right now is for the Redskins to not fire Zorn. If they do, and that team gets ramped up, MNF could be an ugly loss. It wouldn't surprise me to see this team go completely downhill if that happened.
I know. Counts as one loss.Novice2 said:It was Jamarcus RussellIt was the Raiders.Who would your 'top' of the NFC be? New Orleans, Minnesota, and the Giants are obviously the top three. After that, I'd have to put Green Bay, Chicago, Atlanta, and Philly in the next group. And all four of them have had bad games this year.a lot of folks were putting the eagles right near the top in the NFC...........before yesterday.Disgusting
Jason Wood
Zoo York
I agree it was maddening to have Vick in the lineup near the goal line with time waning. On the other hand, this "to inflate ticket sales" stuff makes no sense to me. Eagles have sold out for years upon years, they don't need help selling tickets. They're also one of the best traveling fan bases in the NFL. If you had said Vick was signed to help sell JERSEYS, I might have been with you, but ticket sales aren't affected.stevegamer said:
