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So you do not think that McCoy looked as good his rookie year as Westbrook did? McCoy already has equaled the total yards from scrimmage that Westbrook did in his second year, already has a TD that is longer than all but one of Westbrooks, had the same number of fumbles in four times as many carries in his rookie year. What do you really expect from the kid?
Are you projecting multiple major knee injuries to derail McCoy's career?
I am not saying your plan does not have some merit, however... if Kolb has more worth to other teams then I think he also has more worth to the Eagles to keep him. Face it, Donovan gotten us as far as he can. If the defense was what it was in 2002 and 2003, then I would say sure, keep McNabb, he does not have to play over his head for us to win it all. But based on this season, the defense has a lot of questions that I don't think are all going to be answered by next season. McNabb cannot carry this team by himself.Reid has only had McNabb as his QB except for those times that he got injured. The most balanced, true to the west coast offense we have had, was when Garcia was running the team. I would like to see if Kolb can be that QB who can run a west coast offense the way it should be run. If he can hit DeSean or Maclin on quick slants in stride then teams can't just lay off them and cover deep. That is a throw that McNabb can't or has been unwilling to make. With Weaver, Celek, and hopefully, a developing McCoy, we seem to have all the pieces in place to run a west coast offense similar to the way the 49ers ran it in their heyday.I think overall Reid is a great coach, who's biggest weakness is getting one dimensional on offense. Before we get rid of him prematurely, lets at least see if McNabb, for all his good years, might not have been the impediment to a more balanced attack. I have a feeling Kolb may not have all the skills that McNabb had, but he may be a better fit to run the offense properly.
I know you're a big McNabb supporter (and I used to be as well) but from what I've heard this is far from a given. It may turn out to be true, but far too early to make that statement. I've heard from Vai, Beasely, GCobb, Ike Reese and Hugh Douglas that it is far from decided. Even several beat writers aren't sure. Heck, Ike even went as far as to emphatically say DM has lost the locker room. Far fetched?Now if you're going to base your assertion on AR's press conference, don't forget he was very satisfied with his receivers in '03 (and stated as such) only to announce the addition of Owens a couple months later.Jason Wood said:
Couldn't read a thing you wrote after the isn't going anywhere comment. How in the world can you say that? There is plenty that points to him NOT coming back. If the organIzation really wanted McNabb they would have given him an extension instead of just a guarantee of his last year. The writing is on the wall and if you want to ignore it thats fine, but its there and McNabb did nothing this year to wipe it clean.I know you're a big McNabb supporter (and I used to be as well) but from what I've heard this is far from a given. It may turn out to be true, but far too early to make that statement. I've heard from Vai, Beasely, GCobb, Ike Reese and Hugh Douglas that it is far from decided. Even several beat writers aren't sure. Heck, Ike even went as far as to emphatically say DM has lost the locker room. Far fetched?Now if you're going to base your assertion on AR's press conference, don't forget he was very satisfied with his receivers in '03 (and stated as such) only to announce the addition of Owens a couple months later.Jason Wood said:
I would love to see Deranged Hermit pop in with some info
I assume your comments refer to Jason. One thing I was going to add, the team seems to have expected McNabb gone by now or they wouldn't have drafted Kolb when they did. They had other holes to fill that year (OL, DB) but opted to draft the next franchise QB. At least I hope they thought that and not drafting a backup.So again, to flat out state McNabb isn't going anywhere as if its a guarantee seems premature.Couldn't read a thing you wrote after the isn't going anywhere comment. How in the world can you say that? There is plenty that points to him NOT coming back. If the organIzation really wanted McNabb they would have given him an extension instead of just a guarantee of his last year. The writing is on the wall and if you want to ignore it thats fine, but its there and he did nothing this year to wipe it clean.I know you're a big McNabb supporter (and I used to be as well) but from what I've heard this is far from a given. It may turn out to be true, but far too early to make that statement. I've heard from Vai, Beasely, GCobb, Ike Reese and Hugh Douglas that it is far from decided. Even several beat writers aren't sure. Heck, Ike even went as far as to emphatically say DM has lost the locker room. Far fetched?Now if you're going to base your assertion on AR's press conference, don't forget he was very satisfied with his receivers in '03 (and stated as such) only to announce the addition of Owens a couple months later.Jason Wood said:
I would love to see Deranged Hermit pop in with some info
Yes I was, just wanted to tag team himI assume your comments refer to Jason. One thing I was going to add, the team seems to have expected McNabb gone by now or they wouldn't have drafted Kolb when they did. They had other holes to fill that year (OL, DB) but opted to draft the next franchise QB. At least I hope they thought that and not drafting a backup.So again, to flat out state McNabb isn't going anywhere as if its a guarantee seems premature.Couldn't read a thing you wrote after the isn't going anywhere comment. How in the world can you say that? There is plenty that points to him NOT coming back. If the organIzation really wanted McNabb they would have given him an extension instead of just a guarantee of his last year. The writing is on the wall and if you want to ignore it thats fine, but its there and he did nothing this year to wipe it clean.I know you're a big McNabb supporter (and I used to be as well) but from what I've heard this is far from a given. It may turn out to be true, but far too early to make that statement. I've heard from Vai, Beasely, GCobb, Ike Reese and Hugh Douglas that it is far from decided. Even several beat writers aren't sure. Heck, Ike even went as far as to emphatically say DM has lost the locker room. Far fetched?Now if you're going to base your assertion on AR's press conference, don't forget he was very satisfied with his receivers in '03 (and stated as such) only to announce the addition of Owens a couple months later.Jason Wood said:
I would love to see Deranged Hermit pop in with some info
Read the last line of my post.I'm merely pointing out that Westbrook's numbers are skewed because he had 2 competent runners ahead of him and with him his first two years so his numbers are skewed. So comparing his numbers are pretty pointless to try and use them as prognostication of how another RB will do in the future.Buddy Ball 2K3 said:
Well here's a triple team.Yes I was, just wanted to tag team himI assume your comments refer to Jason. One thing I was going to add, the team seems to have expected McNabb gone by now or they wouldn't have drafted Kolb when they did. They had other holes to fill that year (OL, DB) but opted to draft the next franchise QB. At least I hope they thought that and not drafting a backup.So again, to flat out state McNabb isn't going anywhere as if its a guarantee seems premature.Couldn't read a thing you wrote after the isn't going anywhere comment. How in the world can you say that? There is plenty that points to him NOT coming back. If the organIzation really wanted McNabb they would have given him an extension instead of just a guarantee of his last year. The writing is on the wall and if you want to ignore it thats fine, but its there and he did nothing this year to wipe it clean.I know you're a big McNabb supporter (and I used to be as well) but from what I've heard this is far from a given. It may turn out to be true, but far too early to make that statement. I've heard from Vai, Beasely, GCobb, Ike Reese and Hugh Douglas that it is far from decided. Even several beat writers aren't sure. Heck, Ike even went as far as to emphatically say DM has lost the locker room. Far fetched?Now if you're going to base your assertion on AR's press conference, don't forget he was very satisfied with his receivers in '03 (and stated as such) only to announce the addition of Owens a couple months later.Jason Wood said:
I would love to see Deranged Hermit pop in with some info
I'm suprised Wood is so sure he's staying. Everything I hear and read, like you said, states just the opposite. I'm assuming he's gone, as is Vick, and Kolb will be the starter going forward. I just can't see giving McNabb another extension, because we all know he will not start this year without one. I guess we'll see in the coming months, but I think the 5 era is over in Philly.That's how I'm leaning as well but it could certainly end with Kolb gone and another 3 years of McNabb. But to state it as fact, end-of-discussion-because-I-say-so seems premature at best; irresponsible at worst. And you certainly can't base it on AR's presser.Well here's a triple team.I'm suprised Wood is so sure he's staying. Everything I hear and read, like you said, states just the opposite. I'm assuming he's gone, as is Vick, and Kolb will be the starter going forward. I just can't see giving McNabb another extension, because we all know he will not start this year without one. I guess we'll see in the coming months, but I think the 5 era is over in Philly.
As though just a few hours/days after the playoff loss Reid and his guys were hot on the phone to leak something MAY be in the works even at the same time coming out and nipping things in the bud publicly?
Because Andy's not always truthful in his press conferences? On Jan. 19, 2004 - the day after the Carolina Panthers embarrassed the Eagles in the NFC championship game - Reid said, "I told you before, I'm satisfied with our receivers."*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?
Is it POSSIBLE he gets moved? Sure, but lots of things are POSSIBLE. But with an uncapped year ahead, unless Donovan changes his tune and starts lobbying to be moved, I see absolutely no reason to think he's going anywhere OTHER THAN that's what so many fans seem to want.
Two distinct differences:1) I'm not purporting to have any inside information...most of these talking heads pretend to have info, when they really don'tBecause Andy's not always truthful in his press conferences? On Jan. 19, 2004 - the day after the Carolina Panthers embarrassed the Eagles in the NFC championship game - Reid said, "I told you before, I'm satisfied with our receivers."*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?
Is it POSSIBLE he gets moved? Sure, but lots of things are POSSIBLE. But with an uncapped year ahead, unless Donovan changes his tune and starts lobbying to be moved, I see absolutely no reason to think he's going anywhere OTHER THAN that's what so many fans seem to want.
On March 16, 2004, the Eagles held a news conference to introduce Terrell Owens
Look, I've said time and again its possible or even likely McNabb's back, but say its a waste of time to speculate is silly as well. Do I put absolute truth in what I hear on the radio or read? No. But there's a lot of speculation both ways from lots of sources. And a lot of those sources saying McNabb *may* not be back are more connected to the team than a mod on a message board, as far as I know. Face it, you're doing the same thing the rest of are...speculating. You may well turn out to be right, but that doesn't mean its a done deal right now.
The fact is, Andy drafted the next franchise QB (not the fans) in '07 and spent a high draft pick to do so despite other needs at the time. All 3 QB's have a contract that expires after 2010. Vick is the least likely to be back. It has been the team sending out signals that McNabb's time is done, not the fans.The team is more than just a QB away from being serious SB contenders. Why not step back now and let the next franchise QB grow with the young talent? I don't hate McNabb, I've gotten bored with the team. Playoffs? Great. Next year's our year. Repeat. I think we've seen the best of the current team. They are competitive without being championship caliber. Kinda like a power hitter in baseball who only has warning track power. Really close, but not quite. Put McNabb in the Eagles Ring of Honor. Love the guy. Now lets see the guy Reid chose as the successor.Two distinct differences:1) I'm not purporting to have any inside information...most of these talking heads pretend to have info, when they really don'tBecause Andy's not always truthful in his press conferences? On Jan. 19, 2004 - the day after the Carolina Panthers embarrassed the Eagles in the NFC championship game - Reid said, "I told you before, I'm satisfied with our receivers."*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?
Is it POSSIBLE he gets moved? Sure, but lots of things are POSSIBLE. But with an uncapped year ahead, unless Donovan changes his tune and starts lobbying to be moved, I see absolutely no reason to think he's going anywhere OTHER THAN that's what so many fans seem to want.
On March 16, 2004, the Eagles held a news conference to introduce Terrell Owens
Look, I've said time and again its possible or even likely McNabb's back, but say its a waste of time to speculate is silly as well. Do I put absolute truth in what I hear on the radio or read? No. But there's a lot of speculation both ways from lots of sources. And a lot of those sources saying McNabb *may* not be back are more connected to the team than a mod on a message board, as far as I know. Face it, you're doing the same thing the rest of are...speculating. You may well turn out to be right, but that doesn't mean its a done deal right now.
2) I never said it's not a possibility, just that all the signs that we CURRENTLY have, suggest otherwise
If you go back to this very same topic last year you'll see me saying the same thing. McNabb is the X factor here. If he presses the issue of a contract extension and starts getting vocal in the media about it, then all bets are off. But until that happens, there's absolutely no reason to think McNabb is going anywhere. And you can't tell me that this would even be a news story in most cities, this gets back to the fans hatred of 5 and Reid. They're coming off embarrassing back to back losses to our most bitter rival, and fans and someone's scalp as a result. They can't fathom having to do this dance all over again in 2010, and thus are going to grasp at straws, ANY straws which hint at McNabb and Reid secretly wanting something other than what they've both come out and said they want.
While none of us truly know what Andy and McNabb's relationship is, there were two signs in the last year that maybe things aren't as great as may appear. First, Andy benches McNabb against Baltimore last year, with very little advance warning. The reaction from McNabb seemed to indicate that Andy had never communicated to Donovan that benching was a possibility. Second, McNabb is all for bringing Vick in. Then when Andy uses Vick alot in a pre-season game McNabb complains that the offense can't get into a rhythm. Again it seemed like Andy and Donovan didn't even talk about what the gameplan was.We also KNOW a couple other facts about the Eagles:-Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have always prepared for Changes in position usually one or two years ahead of when it is apparently needed. If Reid sticks with McNabb and trades Kolb, then the Eagles are very vulnerable to having a question mark at QB when McNabb is done.-The Eagles did not sign McNabb to an extension when they had a chance, rather gave a raise. The Eagles generally try to extend people they have long term plans for. This transaction goes against their norm if they plan to keep McNabb around past this year.-As pointed out, Andy has said things at year-end press conferences that he contradicted in his off season moves.-If Andy does want to trade McNabb now, he can't say that because it would create controversy and hurt McNabb's trade value.Reid is all about doing things based on a pre-determined plan, which has worked out very well for the Eagles franchise. My opinion is keeping McNabb around past this year does not seem to fall in line with how Reid has done things in the past. If he does stick with McNabb, then I will admit you are right about how loyal Reid is to McNabb.Here's what we KNOW:*** Andy is loyal, some may say to a fault, to Donovan*** McNabb came right out and said HE is happy in Philly*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?
Everything you say has merit, but let's also not forget that Kolb and Vick have one year left on their respective deals. The truth is, we'll know when we know. We all feel strongly one way or another and, in reality, we don't have a clue. Frankly, if you really step back and think about it, Andy and his staff don't really know what they'll do yet because they haven't been provided with options. I strongly believe that if Donovan wants to be an Eagles in 2010, he'll be an Eagle. Frankly I think the odds are that both McNabb and Kolb return, with Vick being traded. I would PREFER the team trades Kolb (who I believe would fetch the most value) so we can use those picks to win NOW, but there are too many variables to count on that happening until we get a clearer picture of the draft, teams that need a QB, and whether those teams feel strongly enough about Kolb to make a move for him.Kolb to Cleveland would have me all kinds of giddy though. Hopefully Heckert has more sway than I expect him to.While none of us truly know what Andy and McNabb's relationship is, there were two signs in the last year that maybe things aren't as great as may appear. First, Andy benches McNabb against Baltimore last year, with very little advance warning. The reaction from McNabb seemed to indicate that Andy had never communicated to Donovan that benching was a possibility. Second, McNabb is all for bringing Vick in. Then when Andy uses Vick alot in a pre-season game McNabb complains that the offense can't get into a rhythm. Again it seemed like Andy and Donovan didn't even talk about what the gameplan was.We also KNOW a couple other facts about the Eagles:-Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have always prepared for Changes in position usually one or two years ahead of when it is apparently needed. If Reid sticks with McNabb and trades Kolb, then the Eagles are very vulnerable to having a question mark at QB when McNabb is done.-The Eagles did not sign McNabb to an extension when they had a chance, rather gave a raise. The Eagles generally try to extend people they have long term plans for. This transaction goes against their norm if they plan to keep McNabb around past this year.-As pointed out, Andy has said things at year-end press conferences that he contradicted in his off season moves.-If Andy does want to trade McNabb now, he can't say that because it would create controversy and hurt McNabb's trade value.Reid is all about doing things based on a pre-determined plan, which has worked out very well for the Eagles franchise. My opinion is keeping McNabb around past this year does not seem to fall in line with how Reid has done things in the past. If he does stick with McNabb, then I will admit you are right about how loyal Reid is to McNabb.Here's what we KNOW:*** Andy is loyal, some may say to a fault, to Donovan*** McNabb came right out and said HE is happy in Philly*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?
The fact is, Andy drafted the next franchise QB (not the fans) in '07 and spent a high draft pick to do so despite other needs at the time. All 3 QB's have a contract that expires after 2010. Vick is the least likely to be back. It has been the team sending out signals that McNabb's time is done, not the fans.The team is more than just a QB away from being serious SB contenders. Why not step back now and let the next franchise QB grow with the young talent? I don't hate McNabb, I've gotten bored with the team. Playoffs? Great. Next year's our year. Repeat. I think we've seen the best of the current team. They are competitive without being championship caliber. Kinda like a power hitter in baseball who only has warning track power. Really close, but not quite. Put McNabb in the Eagles Ring of Honor. Love the guy. Now lets see the guy Reid chose as the successor.Two distinct differences:1) I'm not purporting to have any inside information...most of these talking heads pretend to have info, when they really don'tBecause Andy's not always truthful in his press conferences? On Jan. 19, 2004 - the day after the Carolina Panthers embarrassed the Eagles in the NFC championship game - Reid said, "I told you before, I'm satisfied with our receivers."*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?
Is it POSSIBLE he gets moved? Sure, but lots of things are POSSIBLE. But with an uncapped year ahead, unless Donovan changes his tune and starts lobbying to be moved, I see absolutely no reason to think he's going anywhere OTHER THAN that's what so many fans seem to want.
On March 16, 2004, the Eagles held a news conference to introduce Terrell Owens
Look, I've said time and again its possible or even likely McNabb's back, but say its a waste of time to speculate is silly as well. Do I put absolute truth in what I hear on the radio or read? No. But there's a lot of speculation both ways from lots of sources. And a lot of those sources saying McNabb *may* not be back are more connected to the team than a mod on a message board, as far as I know. Face it, you're doing the same thing the rest of are...speculating. You may well turn out to be right, but that doesn't mean its a done deal right now.
2) I never said it's not a possibility, just that all the signs that we CURRENTLY have, suggest otherwise
If you go back to this very same topic last year you'll see me saying the same thing. McNabb is the X factor here. If he presses the issue of a contract extension and starts getting vocal in the media about it, then all bets are off. But until that happens, there's absolutely no reason to think McNabb is going anywhere. And you can't tell me that this would even be a news story in most cities, this gets back to the fans hatred of 5 and Reid. They're coming off embarrassing back to back losses to our most bitter rival, and fans and someone's scalp as a result. They can't fathom having to do this dance all over again in 2010, and thus are going to grasp at straws, ANY straws which hint at McNabb and Reid secretly wanting something other than what they've both come out and said they want.
Very well said. I have liked having Donovan as our QB but I don't think he can get us any further in the playoffs anymore, and I would love the Eagles to develop their next QB so winning a superbowl is a possibility. I also think Reid needs to coach without McNabb so we can truly determine whether Reid was successful because of McNabb or was McNabb successful because of Reid. If we know that, then we know whether we want Reid around for years to come
McNabb has been incredibly healthy the past 2 years. I think there was a reason to draft a QB in 07 - because you couldn't afford to pay Jeff Garcia to warm the bench and rescue your season like in 06 and you couldn't risk giving the season to the next Mike McMahon. It was term life insurance they ended up not needing.
I agree with you that QB won't matter much. I don't think Kolb is going to carry us over the edge, like Brady did in NE over Bledsoe. At best he will give us the same chances McNabb does, but for more years. Is that a reason to sell McNabb though? Why do we have to hold Kolb instead of selling him at high value, riding McNabb into the ground, and drafting another QB in a year or two? The only reason seems to be we're bored.
Good points. I think we just disagree with whether getting picks for Kolb will really help us win now. I think to win now, with the defense in its current state, McNabb will have to do more than he is capable of at this point in his career. I also think wherever Kolb plays, he is going to be a very good QB, and I would hate to see the Eagles trade him, and then miss on their successor to McNabb, when they could have had Kolb.As you said, we will know when we will know.
Jason Wood said:
I think the Eagles will trade either McNabb or Kolb and I think its impossible to say which right now. It all depends on what is offered for them. That being said, I think McNabb is more likely to be traded because he is a proven QB and will fetch more than Kolb who's played 2 meaningful games. What is other option, trade Kolb and groom another QB through the draft for a couple years? I think they like what they see in Kolb and will be unwilling to let him go to play McNabb for a couple more years.If we let Kolb go, I think we will regret it. First QB to throw for >300 yds in first two starts. This guy seems to be ideal for this offense and I think thats why Andy fell in love with him in that draft and reached to pick him. I dont see Andy letting him go b/c he knows his potential.Everything you say has merit, but let's also not forget that Kolb and Vick have one year left on their respective deals. The truth is, we'll know when we know. We all feel strongly one way or another and, in reality, we don't have a clue. Frankly, if you really step back and think about it, Andy and his staff don't really know what they'll do yet because they haven't been provided with options. I strongly believe that if Donovan wants to be an Eagles in 2010, he'll be an Eagle. Frankly I think the odds are that both McNabb and Kolb return, with Vick being traded. I would PREFER the team trades Kolb (who I believe would fetch the most value) so we can use those picks to win NOW, but there are too many variables to count on that happening until we get a clearer picture of the draft, teams that need a QB, and whether those teams feel strongly enough about Kolb to make a move for him.Kolb to Cleveland would have me all kinds of giddy though. Hopefully Heckert has more sway than I expect him to.While none of us truly know what Andy and McNabb's relationship is, there were two signs in the last year that maybe things aren't as great as may appear. First, Andy benches McNabb against Baltimore last year, with very little advance warning. The reaction from McNabb seemed to indicate that Andy had never communicated to Donovan that benching was a possibility. Second, McNabb is all for bringing Vick in. Then when Andy uses Vick alot in a pre-season game McNabb complains that the offense can't get into a rhythm. Again it seemed like Andy and Donovan didn't even talk about what the gameplan was.We also KNOW a couple other facts about the Eagles:-Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have always prepared for Changes in position usually one or two years ahead of when it is apparently needed. If Reid sticks with McNabb and trades Kolb, then the Eagles are very vulnerable to having a question mark at QB when McNabb is done.-The Eagles did not sign McNabb to an extension when they had a chance, rather gave a raise. The Eagles generally try to extend people they have long term plans for. This transaction goes against their norm if they plan to keep McNabb around past this year.-As pointed out, Andy has said things at year-end press conferences that he contradicted in his off season moves.-If Andy does want to trade McNabb now, he can't say that because it would create controversy and hurt McNabb's trade value.Reid is all about doing things based on a pre-determined plan, which has worked out very well for the Eagles franchise. My opinion is keeping McNabb around past this year does not seem to fall in line with how Reid has done things in the past. If he does stick with McNabb, then I will admit you are right about how loyal Reid is to McNabb.Here's what we KNOW:*** Andy is loyal, some may say to a fault, to Donovan*** McNabb came right out and said HE is happy in Philly*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?*** There's never been any reason to think what Andy says about Donovan isn't 100% true
There seems to be two scenarios playing out right now. 1) That McNabb is retained and Kolb is traded for a high pick and a player to Cleveland, who Heckert is extremely high on- or -2) Reid is fluffing up the press about McNabb coming back so to increase his trade value. I mean, what is he suppose to say when asked of DM's future? "Huh...No Mr.Reporter, Donovan is not going to be the starter- its going to be Kolb. OK..So who will give a jelly donut for him before we end up cutting him?" That would be foolish on the staffs part.Which ever one takes place- (As a Kolb supporter and Cowboy fan I hope #1)- its going to be a real interesting next couple of months in the NFC East.If we let Kolb go, I think we will regret it. First QB to throw for >300 yds in first two starts. This guy seems to be ideal for this offense and I think thats why Andy fell in love with him in that draft and reached to pick him. I dont see Andy letting him go b/c he knows his potential.Everything you say has merit, but let's also not forget that Kolb and Vick have one year left on their respective deals. The truth is, we'll know when we know. We all feel strongly one way or another and, in reality, we don't have a clue. Frankly, if you really step back and think about it, Andy and his staff don't really know what they'll do yet because they haven't been provided with options. I strongly believe that if Donovan wants to be an Eagles in 2010, he'll be an Eagle. Frankly I think the odds are that both McNabb and Kolb return, with Vick being traded. I would PREFER the team trades Kolb (who I believe would fetch the most value) so we can use those picks to win NOW, but there are too many variables to count on that happening until we get a clearer picture of the draft, teams that need a QB, and whether those teams feel strongly enough about Kolb to make a move for him.Kolb to Cleveland would have me all kinds of giddy though. Hopefully Heckert has more sway than I expect him to.While none of us truly know what Andy and McNabb's relationship is, there were two signs in the last year that maybe things aren't as great as may appear. First, Andy benches McNabb against Baltimore last year, with very little advance warning. The reaction from McNabb seemed to indicate that Andy had never communicated to Donovan that benching was a possibility. Second, McNabb is all for bringing Vick in. Then when Andy uses Vick alot in a pre-season game McNabb complains that the offense can't get into a rhythm. Again it seemed like Andy and Donovan didn't even talk about what the gameplan was.We also KNOW a couple other facts about the Eagles:-Under Andy Reid, the Eagles have always prepared for Changes in position usually one or two years ahead of when it is apparently needed. If Reid sticks with McNabb and trades Kolb, then the Eagles are very vulnerable to having a question mark at QB when McNabb is done.-The Eagles did not sign McNabb to an extension when they had a chance, rather gave a raise. The Eagles generally try to extend people they have long term plans for. This transaction goes against their norm if they plan to keep McNabb around past this year.-As pointed out, Andy has said things at year-end press conferences that he contradicted in his off season moves.-If Andy does want to trade McNabb now, he can't say that because it would create controversy and hurt McNabb's trade value.Reid is all about doing things based on a pre-determined plan, which has worked out very well for the Eagles franchise. My opinion is keeping McNabb around past this year does not seem to fall in line with how Reid has done things in the past. If he does stick with McNabb, then I will admit you are right about how loyal Reid is to McNabb.Here's what we KNOW:*** Andy is loyal, some may say to a fault, to Donovan*** McNabb came right out and said HE is happy in Philly*** I'm not sure why we should dismiss Andy's presser, but not talking heads who aren't Andy?
Pretty much how i see it, like i posted a few posts back. I tihnk Kolb will net higher value since there are more teams that could use him as opposed to teams that could use McNabb.If they draft a QB this offseasn then by the time reids contract runs out, that QB should be ready to roll but hopefully they have a OC here that is a future HC replacement for Reid. So it would be that OCs QB
No, McNabb did not give up 34 points in the playoff game. He also did absolute ZERO to keep his offense on the field and his defense off of the field. The Eagles had five first downs in the first half. I am not excusing the defense, however the offense did absolutely nothing to help them out. When the team needed the franchise player to pick the team up and put them on his back, he crumbled.So can we please stop with the " he is still a Top 10 NFL QB at this point in his career " ?
Exactly, thats why I cant see it happening. There would be no reason for the Eagles to give up that sort of leverage. If they wanted to resign McNabb to a longer deal they would have done it this season.
Except that in 2011 it could be an uncapped year and Peyton Manning and Tom Brady will be getting new contracts, so rather then lock in now, why not wait to see what the market will be in an uncapped year. I believe the Eagles tried to extend McNabb, and it was McNabb's side who didn't want the extension. Think about it. If you really didn't want McNabb around, why even bother giving him a raise on his existing contract and then guarenteeing 2010.
No, it hasn't been mentioned. Do you have any more details about this?
I think for most fans its not about the offense or QB performing badly but more about the contract status of all 3. Or more specifically, when is it time to make the switch. The only way the fans would have wanted McNabb to stay is if they won the SB this year. So my opinions are based on the fact that the team has to make a decision soon about who the QB will be in 2010 and beyond.I am of the opinion that if they are ever going to give Kolb a chance and get something back for McNabb, this offseason is the time to do it. People should not confuse this with being a "McNabb hater".
What would be the Cleveland trade for Kolb? It's surely not going to be what, the 7th overall pick? A 2nd rounder perhaps? However Cleveland picks #38 and Kolb was drafted #36 in 2007...no value there, and Andy looks like an idiot for drafting a QB, training him for 3 years, then dumping him for a lower pick all the while keeping his injury-prone, aging QB who is only signed thru 2010. For Andy to get value for Kolb, he'll need a 1st or multiple 2nds and I just don't see Cleveland doing that, especially since Kolb is only signed thru 2010 also, unless there's no CBA signed in March which looks likely to be a "no". If there's no CBA, then what's stopping the Eagles from holding onto both Kolb and McNabb? Why does there have to be a trade? Would it be to get picks? The Eagles already have one of the younger teams in the NFL plus 6 picks in the 1st 4 rounds of the 2010 draft. So we trade Kolb, the supposed QB of the future, for multiple picks only to get younger and then still have a need for a QB of the future since McNabb is a) only signed for 1 year and b) will be 33 or 34 by the time the 2010 season starts? The only way I see Kolb going is if the Eagles do not believe he has potential to be a franchise QB. In that case, since Heckert is in Cleveland, that may be one of the last places Kolb would be traded too.
McNabb wants Extension -- 2008 You can google it and find numerous articles about McNabb wanting a new contract.
So you're saying that you would rather have Favre and/or Kurt Warner going forward to be your franchise QB?Sorry, that's crazy. Unless they have 3-4 years left (highly unlikely, but anything is possible with Favre) then there's no way you should want a 40-yr old Favre or a 39-yr old Warner over a 33-yr old McNabb.
Agreed. Objectively I would rather have (from that list): Brees, Manning, Rivers, Rodgers, Brady and Romo. I'm sure most would put Big Ben in there too (I wouldn't), and there's no way I would rather have Schaub or Eli over 5.
Why? Its a fact that Heckert loves this kid. If he was to end up in Cleveland, its BECAUSE OF Heckert- not in spite of Heckert.You missed the sentence before...IF Andy Reid and Co do not see Kolb as their franchise QB, then he will probably be the one to be traded. In that case Tom Heckert would know all about that, and probably avoid.My opinion is that the Eagles do view Kolb as their franchise QB going forward, so he will not be one moved. McNabb wants a contract extension, and as someone said earlier, if the Eagles were interested in doing that they would have already done it by now. Few teams, if any, go into a season with their starting QB in the final year of his contract unless they aren't planning on him being around past that season. I wouldn't be surprised if it was McNabb that wound up in Cleveland for a pick this year and a conditional next or a player or two.
Since the Eagles restructured his contract in June, do they have to wait 12 months before they restructure/extend again? Isn't there a provision that a contract can't be reworked more than once a year? Or would an extension not apply to that rule?You missed the sentence before...IF Andy Reid and Co do not see Kolb as their franchise QB, then he will probably be the one to be traded. In that case Tom Heckert would know all about that, and probably avoid.My opinion is that the Eagles do view Kolb as their franchise QB going forward, so he will not be one moved. McNabb wants a contract extension, and as someone said earlier, if the Eagles were interested in doing that they would have already done it by now. Few teams, if any, go into a season with their starting QB in the final year of his contract unless they aren't planning on him being around past that season. I wouldn't be surprised if it was McNabb that wound up in Cleveland for a pick this year and a conditional next or a player or two.
A new contract and an extension are two different things. McNabb essentially got what he wanted, a new contract guarenteeing 2010 with a pay raise. Why would the Eagles bother doing that if they really didn't want McNabb around? I can't imagine they were treating 2009 as a last hurrah for McNabb. They could have accomplished that WITHOUT giving him a re-worked deal and not been on the hook for his 2010 salary. That deal flies in the face of how the Eagles have operated in the past, which leads me to believe that they want to keep McNabb around beyond 2010. It's all just speculation on my part of course.
I don't know, but my guess would be that it depends on the cap hit...for now anyways. If the Eagles can fit the salary under the cap, then they should be able to re-structure or extend. I could be wrong, but I do not know. If that was the case, then why not just give him the extension he wanted? Also the way the new contract was structured, most of the cap hit was absorbed in 2009, and I believe the Eagles cap hit for 2010 is right about $5 million. Possibly a "one last hurrah" with McNabb in 2009 then a palatable and trade-friendly salary for 2010?Since the Eagles restructured his contract in June, do they have to wait 12 months before they restructure/extend again? Isn't there a provision that a contract can't be reworked more than once a year? Or would an extension not apply to that rule?You missed the sentence before...IF Andy Reid and Co do not see Kolb as their franchise QB, then he will probably be the one to be traded. In that case Tom Heckert would know all about that, and probably avoid.My opinion is that the Eagles do view Kolb as their franchise QB going forward, so he will not be one moved. McNabb wants a contract extension, and as someone said earlier, if the Eagles were interested in doing that they would have already done it by now. Few teams, if any, go into a season with their starting QB in the final year of his contract unless they aren't planning on him being around past that season. I wouldn't be surprised if it was McNabb that wound up in Cleveland for a pick this year and a conditional next or a player or two.Why? Its a fact that Heckert loves this kid. If he was to end up in Cleveland, its BECAUSE OF Heckert- not in spite of Heckert.
You do not think that Favre is better than McNabb right now?
You're missing the point.If I had to win a game this month, I'd probably choose Favre.If I had to start a franchise looking at 2010 and beyond, no way do I choose a 40-yr old anything.
Sorry I thought you said McNabb is still a Top 10 NFL QB at this point in his career.
Thanks but your missing MY sentence. Whether Andy wants Kolb or not has no bearing on how Heckert feels. I repeat- Heckert LOVES the guy and wants him on the Browns. Now I agree that it will be the Eagles decision if THEY want to keep him or not and I am not predicting one way or the other what they do....yet. I can tell you that if the Eagles organization tells Kolb to go away and find a team- then Heckert will be all over him. He is not going to say, "Well if AR doesnt want him, then I dont!"You missed the sentence before...IF Andy Reid and Co do not see Kolb as their franchise QB, then he will probably be the one to be traded. In that case Tom Heckert would know all about that, and probably avoid.My opinion is that the Eagles do view Kolb as their franchise QB going forward, so he will not be one moved. McNabb wants a contract extension, and as someone said earlier, if the Eagles were interested in doing that they would have already done it by now. Few teams, if any, go into a season with their starting QB in the final year of his contract unless they aren't planning on him being around past that season. I wouldn't be surprised if it was McNabb that wound up in Cleveland for a pick this year and a conditional next or a player or two.Why? Its a fact that Heckert loves this kid. If he was to end up in Cleveland, its BECAUSE OF Heckert- not in spite of Heckert.
Didn't I read somewhere in some forum here that you know Kevin Kolb? I'm a big Kolb supporter myself, that with his skill st he'll do very well in this offense, especially with the YAC machines in DJax and Maclin. The point I'm trying to make is that if the Eagles do not consider Kolb to be a franchise level QB, then Heckert...coming from that organization...would probably have a similar opinion on him. Personally I don't think Kolb is going anywhere, McNabb will be the one going to Cleveland if a trade is made. Kolb may have more trade value, but he also has value to the Eagles as their trained QB of the future, if not the present.Thanks but your missing MY sentence. Whether Andy wants Kolb or not has no bearing on how Heckert feels. I repeat- Heckert LOVES the guy and wants him on the Browns. Now I agree that it will be the Eagles decision if THEY want to keep him or not and I am not predicting one way or the other what they do....yet. I can tell you that if the Eagles organization tells Kolb to go away and find a team- then Heckert will be all over him. He is not going to say, "Well if AR doesnt want him, then I dont!"You missed the sentence before...IF Andy Reid and Co do not see Kolb as their franchise QB, then he will probably be the one to be traded. In that case Tom Heckert would know all about that, and probably avoid.My opinion is that the Eagles do view Kolb as their franchise QB going forward, so he will not be one moved. McNabb wants a contract extension, and as someone said earlier, if the Eagles were interested in doing that they would have already done it by now. Few teams, if any, go into a season with their starting QB in the final year of his contract unless they aren't planning on him being around past that season. I wouldn't be surprised if it was McNabb that wound up in Cleveland for a pick this year and a conditional next or a player or two.
Sure, if you ignore the AFC. How in the world did Jason just get away with claiming that McNabb > Ben right at this moment in time? People are debating McNabb, Kolb, or Vick for a reason. With each passing year McNabb is inching his way to middle of the pack, and if you're middle of the pack, you're nothing.
