***Official 2012 Denver Broncos thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

Fox has to go if they have any chance at winning a Superbowl.

Absolutely. Dude has a career losing record in the playoffs, and has never really had any postseason success to speak of. Plus, if Bill Cowher, the patron saint of conservative coaching, couldn't win a title, then no other conservative coach has a prayer.

I'm confused. Cowher won the Super Bowl.

Can't believe you bit on that. The guy lives for attention here by hoping he can get people to think he has some alternative insight. Very overrated poster, and I've said this before. Decent writer who loves to go on and on making people think he sees something others don't. Feeds on the attention like no other (okay, maybe MoP, but still).It's not complicated at all. John Fox is an old, retread whose tendencies are all too obvious. He coaches not to lose. We all know how that turns out. And it will not change.

 

[Ghost Rider]

Rahim Moore should have been cut the second tonight's game ended.John Fox's game plan was conservatively gutless. Sadly for Manning, he played really well most of the game, but that awful INT in OT is all many will remember from this game in regards to his performance.

If we're cutting Moore, do we have to cut Doom and Miller, too? #1 pass rush in the NFL this season went completely MIA in the postseason. Maybe if Flacco were feeling just the tiniest bit uncomfortable in the pocket, we wouldn't be talking about how many bombs Denver's defense gave up. Not to take anything away from Moore's play (what a terrible angle), just saying he was hardly the only defender who didn't show up.

When Von got hurt and left the game in the 4th Q, I joked to my buddy that he probably did it on purpose just so that his name would finally be called. While it's true that neither of your DEs had a good game, sometimes you have to give the opponent a tip of the cap. "They are getting paid too" as the saying goes.But Moore's catastrophe was self-induced. There's no giving Jacoby Jones credit on that one. Moore simply blew it.

On the one hand, yes, you have to give the Ravens line credit for shutting down the Broncos pass rush, but on the other hand, the Broncos seemingly made zero adjustments throughout the game to change things. But in the case of Moore, his mistake was inexcusable. That showed a complete lack of understanding of the game situation. A mental error by someone who understands the game should never happen in that situation; that shouldn't need to be coached. Whatever happens there, you cannot let a WR completely get behind the entire defense, especially when you rushed only 3 and dropped 8 back into coverage. Getting physically beat is one thing; getting beat because you made an inexcusable mental error is another.

 

[Buffaloes]

felt like we were watching 1996 playoff game all over again. ####

 

[The Kuhn]

Moore's play was boneheaded, but Champ getting burned 2x by Torrey Smith? Defense was to blame all around. That's the most points given up all year- even the Colts D managed to completely shut down the Ravens at home for 3 out of 4 quarters. As this team was mostly healthy going into the playoffs, I think the bye hurt more than helped.Champ was the most disappointing player, but I was most impressed with Hillman. He stepped up big, didn't turn the ball over, and you could have put a Moreno jersey on him and not noticed a difference. I'd like to see what trade offers they can get for Moreno.The best that can come out of this loss is that it serves as a wake up call and they get angry for 2013. KC and SD are in rebuilding mode and OAK still has a lot of questions, so the opportunity is still there to be a top seed next year as well.

 

[moleculo]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

 

[Arsenal of Doom]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

I'd still take where the Broncos are at now over just about any other team in the league.Offensively, keeping Clady and looking for a replacement for McGahee/Moreno are about the only offseason issues. On the defensive side there are more questions. Do they hang onto DJ and move him back inside full-time? Is Champ reaching the point that he needs to be moved to FS? If he does, can the young DBs or replacements step up? Does Wolfe move inside full time and can he continue to improve?

 

[SSOG]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

Don't over think it. A 3 point loss in double overtime to a top 10 team does not negate everything we previously knew about the Broncos. The playoffs are extremely random, and randomness is a cruel mistress. 10 point favorites lose straight up 20% of the time. It happens. Denver was still one of the top 3 teams in the league (arguably #1 overall).

 

[moleculo]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

Don't over think it. A 3 point loss in double overtime to a top 10 team does not negate everything we previously knew about the Broncos. The playoffs are extremely random, and randomness is a cruel mistress. 10 point favorites lose straight up 20% of the time. It happens. Denver was still one of the top 3 teams in the league (arguably #1 overall).

Don't agree. Going into yesterdays game, I didn't think it would be close. I understand improbable outcomes and all that, but besides the score, there were plenty of reasons to be down on the team. Where was the pass-rush? Where were the passes > 20 yards? Where were the 3rd down stops? Where was the pass-protection? What made the O and D great in the regular season were lacking yesterday when it counted most. Really makes me consider the "overrated" meme, given the level of competition Broncos faced.Haven't seen stats on this, but to my eye Manning was harassed more yesterday than he had been in a while. Well, what great pass rush has he faced over the last 11 games?

 

[SSOG]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

Don't over think it. A 3 point loss in double overtime to a top 10 team does not negate everything we previously knew about the Broncos. The playoffs are extremely random, and randomness is a cruel mistress. 10 point favorites lose straight up 20% of the time. It happens. Denver was still one of the top 3 teams in the league (arguably #1 overall).

Don't agree. Going into yesterdays game, I didn't think it would be close. I understand improbable outcomes and all that, but besides the score, there were plenty of reasons to be down on the team. Where was the pass-rush? Where were the passes > 20 yards? Where were the 3rd down stops? Where was the pass-protection? What made the O and D great in the regular season were lacking yesterday when it counted most. Really makes me consider the "overrated" meme, given the level of competition Broncos faced.Haven't seen stats on this, but to my eye Manning was harassed more yesterday than he had been in a while. Well, what great pass rush has he faced over the last 11 games?

Which is more probable: A) the 16 game sample suggesting Denver had an amazing pass rush and the 10 year sample suggesting Manning was great at avoiding sacks were illusions, and yesterday's game revealed the truth. B) the aforementioned samples were the truth, and yesterday's game was an aberration. My money's on the latter as substantially more likely. All Broncos fans should read this: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/what-happens-if-the-broncos-and-manning-dont-winAlso, while you're at it, bookmark the blog. One of the best fan blogs on the Internet.

 

[moleculo]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

Don't over think it. A 3 point loss in double overtime to a top 10 team does not negate everything we previously knew about the Broncos. The playoffs are extremely random, and randomness is a cruel mistress. 10 point favorites lose straight up 20% of the time. It happens. Denver was still one of the top 3 teams in the league (arguably #1 overall).

Don't agree. Going into yesterdays game, I didn't think it would be close. I understand improbable outcomes and all that, but besides the score, there were plenty of reasons to be down on the team. Where was the pass-rush? Where were the passes > 20 yards? Where were the 3rd down stops? Where was the pass-protection? What made the O and D great in the regular season were lacking yesterday when it counted most. Really makes me consider the "overrated" meme, given the level of competition Broncos faced.Haven't seen stats on this, but to my eye Manning was harassed more yesterday than he had been in a while. Well, what great pass rush has he faced over the last 11 games?

Which is more probable: A) the 16 game sample suggesting Denver had an amazing pass rush and the 10 year sample suggesting Manning was great at avoiding sacks were illusions, and yesterday's game revealed the truth. B) the aforementioned samples were the truth, and yesterday's game was an aberration. My money's on the latter as substantially more likely. All Broncos fans should read this: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/what-happens-if-the-broncos-and-manning-dont-winAlso, while you're at it, bookmark the blog. One of the best fan blogs on the Internet.

Well aware of iaofm, read it every day. Don't always agree with all of their takes. Btw: did you happen to catch the slew of recent posts re: Foxball? For better or worse, playcalling is a part of the team, just as integral as the on-field talent. A great team would not be hamstrung by the playcalling like the Broncos were yesterday.

 

[Warsteinner]

Until the team gets a new QB fans should look forward to great regular seasons and early playoff exits.

 

[Benchwarmers]

It was a good game but I think the referees played a big part in the outcome. Very inconsistent in their flags. Baltimore seemed to get most of the calls. This past year I think I watched more games with bad officiating than any other year.I think NE will crush Baltimore to walk into the Superbowl and beat whoever they play. Same old NFL.

 

[SSOG]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

Don't over think it. A 3 point loss in double overtime to a top 10 team does not negate everything we previously knew about the Broncos. The playoffs are extremely random, and randomness is a cruel mistress. 10 point favorites lose straight up 20% of the time. It happens. Denver was still one of the top 3 teams in the league (arguably #1 overall).

Don't agree. Going into yesterdays game, I didn't think it would be close. I understand improbable outcomes and all that, but besides the score, there were plenty of reasons to be down on the team. Where was the pass-rush? Where were the passes > 20 yards? Where were the 3rd down stops? Where was the pass-protection? What made the O and D great in the regular season were lacking yesterday when it counted most. Really makes me consider the "overrated" meme, given the level of competition Broncos faced.Haven't seen stats on this, but to my eye Manning was harassed more yesterday than he had been in a while. Well, what great pass rush has he faced over the last 11 games?

Which is more probable: A) the 16 game sample suggesting Denver had an amazing pass rush and the 10 year sample suggesting Manning was great at avoiding sacks were illusions, and yesterday's game revealed the truth. B) the aforementioned samples were the truth, and yesterday's game was an aberration. My money's on the latter as substantially more likely. All Broncos fans should read this: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/what-happens-if-the-broncos-and-manning-dont-winAlso, while you're at it, bookmark the blog. One of the best fan blogs on the Internet.

Well aware of iaofm, read it every day. Don't always agree with all of their takes. Btw: did you happen to catch the slew of recent posts re: Foxball? For better or worse, playcalling is a part of the team, just as integral as the on-field talent. A great team would not be hamstrung by the playcalling like the Broncos were yesterday.

I've read the posts. I agree with the posts 100%. Especially this:

No, this is not a call for Fox to be fired. He's a very good coach and manager of men, and he does deserve a large share of credit for how well the Broncos' season went until last night.But what keeps him from being a great coach is his subpar decision-making, and the only way he'll win a championship in Denver is by either changing his ways, or by having an even longer run of good fortune than he had in 2011 or 2012.

Play calling is nowhere near as integral as talent, by the way. It's a very small part of a coach's job, and it's hard to blame Fox for the play calling when Manning is the QB- you really think he's going to run any play he doesn't want to run? I mean, he clearly disagreed with the kneel-down, but he's the one who audibled into the run on 3rd and 5 in the 3rd. He's already admitted that the final run on 3rd and 7 was his call. That wasn't Foxball, that was Manningball.

 

[moleculo]

I have a different feel now than 1996. Right now, I feel like the Broncos simply aren't a great team - they are a good team that went on a great run, but they weren't good enough to overcome some fatal flaws that had been previously masked. Specifically, I'm talking about an overly conservative play calling, not all that great in the middle of the D (mlb & s), a not very good power running game, and a penchant for turning the ball over. Better play in any of these three items and Broncos win. In hindsight, we all knew about these flaws too, but kind of glossed over them in the 11 game streak.Honestly, I don't know where the team goes from here. I'm completely deflated, and still not quite warmed up from yesterday.

Don't over think it. A 3 point loss in double overtime to a top 10 team does not negate everything we previously knew about the Broncos. The playoffs are extremely random, and randomness is a cruel mistress. 10 point favorites lose straight up 20% of the time. It happens. Denver was still one of the top 3 teams in the league (arguably #1 overall).

Don't agree. Going into yesterdays game, I didn't think it would be close. I understand improbable outcomes and all that, but besides the score, there were plenty of reasons to be down on the team. Where was the pass-rush? Where were the passes > 20 yards? Where were the 3rd down stops? Where was the pass-protection? What made the O and D great in the regular season were lacking yesterday when it counted most. Really makes me consider the "overrated" meme, given the level of competition Broncos faced.Haven't seen stats on this, but to my eye Manning was harassed more yesterday than he had been in a while. Well, what great pass rush has he faced over the last 11 games?

Which is more probable: A) the 16 game sample suggesting Denver had an amazing pass rush and the 10 year sample suggesting Manning was great at avoiding sacks were illusions, and yesterday's game revealed the truth. B) the aforementioned samples were the truth, and yesterday's game was an aberration. My money's on the latter as substantially more likely. All Broncos fans should read this: http://www.itsalloverfatman.com/broncos/entry/what-happens-if-the-broncos-and-manning-dont-winAlso, while you're at it, bookmark the blog. One of the best fan blogs on the Internet.

Well aware of iaofm, read it every day. Don't always agree with all of their takes. Btw: did you happen to catch the slew of recent posts re: Foxball? For better or worse, playcalling is a part of the team, just as integral as the on-field talent. A great team would not be hamstrung by the playcalling like the Broncos were yesterday.

I've read the posts. I agree with the posts 100%. Especially this:

No, this is not a call for Fox to be fired. He's a very good coach and manager of men, and he does deserve a large share of credit for how well the Broncos' season went until last night.But what keeps him from being a great coach is his subpar decision-making, and the only way he'll win a championship in Denver is by either changing his ways, or by having an even longer run of good fortune than he had in 2011 or 2012.

Play calling is nowhere near as integral as talent, by the way. It's a very small part of a coach's job, and it's hard to blame Fox for the play calling when Manning is the QB- you really think he's going to run any play he doesn't want to run? I mean, he clearly disagreed with the kneel-down, but he's the one who audibled into the run on 3rd and 5 in the 3rd. He's already admitted that the final run on 3rd and 7 was his call. That wasn't Foxball, that was Manningball.

Foxball or Manningball, I don't really care. It was clear that the objective was to burn clock, not get a first down. I blamed fox in the other thread, but if its true that manning audibled into the run, I'll take it back. Regardless, its an academic argument here. I stand by my statement that Broncos were overrated, but think they show promise for next year.

 

[JetMaxx]

I posted this in the Fox thread but it fits here. Steve Wyche reported that several Ravens players said that Mannings arm strength was notably waning by the end of the game in those elements and it lead them to be much more aggressive with the WRs. That has to be very disconcerting knowing that he will be 38 next year so it won't get better.

 

[charlatan]

Well, now it seems that Mr McCoy is taking his, IMHO, overrated offensive prowess to San Diego. Good riddance!I think this is a prime opportunity to add someone to the mix that will counter balance the ultra conservative John Fox. I have to think somewhere in Elways' mind, he thinks they should've made a better attempt to make some of those third downs, ESPECIALLY considering who they're paying at QB. They need to hire someone to remind Fox that not every decision can be made totally based on the statistical likelihood of a given result. Someone to push the envelope and open things up. Elway was stuck in this same system with Reeves for years, and when he finally got a coach that plays to win, look what happened (plus some nice RB and FB play of course ).I sure hope Elway finds a guy that fits that mold for OC. If I hear Fox cite statistics one more time...

 

[rascal]

Whisenhunt is rumored to be the next OC if he doesn't get a HC offer. Sign me up.

 

[rascal]

Impending free agent LT Ryan Clady has withdrawn from this year's Pro Bowl due to a shoulder injury.It's the shoulder that kept Clady out of practice during the Broncos' playoff bye week. There's no indication that the injury will require surgery. Bengals LT Andrew Whitworth has replaced him on the AFC's roster. Clady, 26, has started all 80 games since entering the league in 2008.