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*** Official 2014 San Diego Chargers **** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Maurile Tremblay
- Start date
BoltBacker
Footballguy
As critical as I've been of the CB's, the 4 sacks allowed by the OL had much more to do with SD getting knocked out of the playoffs than the secondary or the pass rush imo. The OT's played better than I expected with the exception of the games Dunlap missed and forced Fluker to slide over to LT and Clary to play RT. Can Dunlap play a full season as a starting T? We'll find out.
I wasn't that impressed with the interior of the OL though. With the salary Hardwick/Clary are being payed I don't think it would be difficult to replace them. It's pretty obvious that the NFL doesn't put a huge price on interior lineman and puts a premium on T's. As I pointed out in an earlier post, DeLaPuenta/Colon were signed for less than $3mil/season COMBINED. Hardwick is a popular player on the team and he plays through injuries. He's not awful, he's just not the pro-bowl caliber center like he's being payed. How anybody can look at Clary and his salary and think it's anything short of an abomination is beyond me. Frankly, I think it speaks volumes that guys like Ohrnberger and Troutman can't beat Clary out.
Dunlap played better than I expected and it's anyone's guess if he gets offered a huge contract next year. The team would be left with Fluker and Harris as the only OT's left on the roster. Maybe it's being preoccupied with the future but I don't think that's a good plan for bargaining position. There are plenty of OG/T types in this draft that could push Clary for the starting job, push Troutman completely off the roster, and improve the depth at OT both this coming season and in the future.
I almost started a new thread on this instead of just posting it here. I think this lecture by Telesco on the Chargers' draft preparation is pretty interesting.
http://www.chargers.com/news/article-1/How-Tom-Telesco-Uses-Mock-Drafts/ce88050c-fd70-405a-b048-765a47e7898b
http://www.chargers.com/news/article-1/How-Tom-Telesco-Uses-Mock-Drafts/ce88050c-fd70-405a-b048-765a47e7898b
BoltBacker
Footballguy
DRAFT: Day One Hopes and Dreams
We probably all want them to move back and get more picks because of all the needs but let's assume they cant and pick #25...
1. Zack Martin - Probably goes closer to the middle than the end of the first but stranger things have happened.
2. Darquez Dennard - At one time it looked like there was no hope of Dennard dropping this far but I've seen several mocks recently where he does.
3. Kyle Fuller - Might also be gone.
Those three guys would open camp as the #1 at their position imo and are very safe picks. If SD can't procure one of those three guys, get out the torch and pitchforks Charger fans, I think they should just draft BPA as they can get "?"s to fill holes on day 2....
4. Teddy Bridgewater - A top-5 pick in December in freefall with no real explanation. Yeah, he might have to sit a year or two but he'll still hold value that entire time and you can use the 5th year option if he shows something when he gets his chance. I think his skill set would fit a McCoy offense very well. I don't even like taking QB early but the risk/reward at this point is just too good to pass up imo.
5. Cyrus Kouandjio - A top-10 pick in December. In this case there are questions about his knees but his upside is too high to pass up. You could have your two OT's set for the next decade.
Nix is a one dimensional player in a division with Manning/Reid. How much better is he than Ellis/McCullers?
I actually like Verrett quite a bit but I'm afraid Wright ends up being the other CB and can you really have two 5'9" starting CB's defending Bowe/Thomas? Roby is a great athlete, but is he a great football player? How much better are they than Jean-Baptiste, Gaines, Joyner, McGill, Roberson, Watkins, Desir, etc?
I think it's a big mistake overlooking first round talent just so you can draft a guy with question marks because of dire need. Which is a big reason I thought they should have been more active in FA on modest contract guys so the needs weren't this dire in the first place.
We probably all want them to move back and get more picks because of all the needs but let's assume they cant and pick #25...
1. Zack Martin - Probably goes closer to the middle than the end of the first but stranger things have happened.
2. Darquez Dennard - At one time it looked like there was no hope of Dennard dropping this far but I've seen several mocks recently where he does.
3. Kyle Fuller - Might also be gone.
Those three guys would open camp as the #1 at their position imo and are very safe picks. If SD can't procure one of those three guys, get out the torch and pitchforks Charger fans, I think they should just draft BPA as they can get "?"s to fill holes on day 2....
4. Teddy Bridgewater - A top-5 pick in December in freefall with no real explanation. Yeah, he might have to sit a year or two but he'll still hold value that entire time and you can use the 5th year option if he shows something when he gets his chance. I think his skill set would fit a McCoy offense very well. I don't even like taking QB early but the risk/reward at this point is just too good to pass up imo.
5. Cyrus Kouandjio - A top-10 pick in December. In this case there are questions about his knees but his upside is too high to pass up. You could have your two OT's set for the next decade.
Nix is a one dimensional player in a division with Manning/Reid. How much better is he than Ellis/McCullers?
I actually like Verrett quite a bit but I'm afraid Wright ends up being the other CB and can you really have two 5'9" starting CB's defending Bowe/Thomas? Roby is a great athlete, but is he a great football player? How much better are they than Jean-Baptiste, Gaines, Joyner, McGill, Roberson, Watkins, Desir, etc?
I think it's a big mistake overlooking first round talent just so you can draft a guy with question marks because of dire need. Which is a big reason I thought they should have been more active in FA on modest contract guys so the needs weren't this dire in the first place.
cstu
Footballguy
NT is the most important piece in this defense so if they can get a foundation piece for the defense in the 1st I think they should. Now if you are right and they don't think there's much difference between Nix/Ellis/McCullers then by all means they should pick one of the latter two in the 2nd or 3rd.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I agree NT is an important position. I guess I don't know why they didn't simply release Clary saving them $4.5+mil and used that $ to sign Raji and draft a Su'a-Filo/Yankey/Jackson/Richardson who are all big upgrades from Clary.
Nick Vermeil
Footballguy
Bucky86
Footballguy
Would've been top 15 pick if only he were 1-2 inches taller. Like it a lot.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't think it's a bad pick.Bucky86 said:
Based on how deep this draft is and with all the needs SD has I wouldn't have minded if they had drafted Bridgewater and traded him for #40 and #108 no matter what the pick value calculator says. We know for sure that's the least MIN was willing to give up. There are still some very good CB's available in the 2nd and beyond.
Really, I'm just happy they didn't draft Nix or Van Noy too early.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think if a pass rusher like Van Noy or Lawrence are there they will take him.
IMO they should turn their attention to the trenches. Nix would have been a bad pick in round 1 but I've seen a mock where SD took him in round 2. That wouldn't be bad. I really think they need to replace Clary at OG. There are a lot of guys that will probably sift down to the SD pick, Su'a-Filo/Martin/Yankey/Jackson/Bitonio/Richardson/Fleming.
Then of the course there is the possibility of a WTF? slide like Keenan Allen. How far does Lee fall is anyone's guess with a WR group this deep. I was kind of hoping someone would trade up to nab him at #25 last night after all the talk that he wouldn't slide past #21 no matter what. I still say draft Kouandjio. People are worried about how his knees will hold up in his 30's? How many contracts away is that?
ETA Oh, and they are so desperate for DT that I think if they don't get Nix in the 2nd they'll have to reach a little to make sure they get either Ellis or McCullers in the 3rd imo. If they are both gone maybe take a guy like Carrethers in the last two rounds and take a value at CB/WR/OL in round 3.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
I don't get it. Same as last year there are bigger areas of need than LB. They need more picks not fewer.
Riversco
Footballguy
Riversco
Footballguy
The two most important aspects of a football team is getting a franchise QB and then getting pass rushers. The Chargers have Rivers. They need to just keep bulking up the pass rush and they'll get where they need to be. I love what Telesco is doing.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
LB is a need.
Like the draft, looks to me like they got caught the DT/DE run in the 3rd round and went Oline instead.
Not sure if there were a ton of 3/4 style DT/DE of high quality in this draft
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
Yeah - not crazy about the Watt pick based purely on draft ratings, but hopefully he's good at the things that don't show up in combine numbers (smart, effort, good teammate, hard worker, motor, etc.)
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
I like the Players the Bengals took right infront of SD in rounds 1 & 3 better
Bucky86
Footballguy
Well, they were probably taken in front for a reason...
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Yeah, I agree that the #4 OLB is a need, but if you consider that a need then the team has about 20 needs that have to get filled.
Last year they traded two picks to acquire a LB that only contributes on running down, this year they follow that up by trading two picks for a LB that is only going to contribute on passing downs. So all in all they accomplished getting an all purpose LB and it only cost them four draft picks and two roster spots.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
far too early ot know what kind of player any rookie is.
They took a small school NT later in the draft, just a depth move.
Surprised they didn't trade up again and get the true NT in the draft that was sliding in Nix
They didn't want Nix.
Somebody asked Telesco about an interior DL who was falling down the board, and his response was "whose board?"
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Sounds like he was channeling his inner AJ with that response. I have to admit his board may have looked different than most, both Watt/Carrethers were both drafted pretty early.
According to Gelkhen in his post-draft chat for the SDUT, the Chargers' ranking of Nix was different from the media's, but not different from other NFL teams'.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
I think I'm most disappointed that MIN wanted to trade up for Bridgewater and SD could have had picks #40 and #108. Instead of collecting more picks SD chose to go with fewer for the second year in a row...
Draft A
25-Verrett(CB)
50-Attaochu(OLB)
89-Watt(G)
165-Carrethers(NT)
201-Grice(RB)
240-Reese(WR)
... what if they had traded back instead of trading up?
Draft B
40-Kouandjio(LT) LT is such an important position and what a great value. Maybe his knees give out in his 2nd/3rd contract but at this price who cares?
57-Early(DE/OLB) On passing downs Ingram/Freeney should be on the field. Early has better size and can be a passing down DE or possibly move to LB.
89-Moncrief(WR) Not convinced that WR is a dire need but Moncrief is too good a player to pass on at the end of the third. Vincent Brown to the bench as a depth player where he belongs.
108-McGill(CB) Great size to cover anyone, and great value. So many CB's in this draft in a big tier after Gilbert/Dennard/Fuller slipped off the board. Still draft a starter at CB.
125-Yankey(G/C) Even if you are a Watt fan and planning on taking him here, how do you pass on Yankey?!
165-Abbrederis(WR) Just value. Raise your hand if you think Royal makes it through the season healthy. Seems like a perfect fit as a slot receiver in this offense and if you are a fan of Carrethers you can wait and still get him even if you need NT more than WR.
201-McCullers(NT) ...or Carrethers. We know McCullers would have been there but we can't be sure where Carrethers would have gone. All the NT's in this class are just run stuffing guys taking up two blockers. I don't see a lot of difference from top to bottom.
240-Leno(G/T) Yankey would start in 2014 at RG but people suggest he might be able to slide to C at some point. Leno developing in the wings to take over at G seems like a good plan. Possible backup T when Clary mercifully gets pushed off the roster.
UFA's - Marcus Roberson(CB)/Antonio Richardson(T)/James Hurst(G)/Brandon Coleman(TE)/Kelcy Quarles(DL)/Anthony Johnson(DL)/Morgan Breslin(OLB)/Christian Jones(OLB)
Be honest Charger fans, would you rather have draft A or draft B?
Draft A
25-Verrett(CB)
50-Attaochu(OLB)
89-Watt(G)
165-Carrethers(NT)
201-Grice(RB)
240-Reese(WR)
... what if they had traded back instead of trading up?
Draft B
40-Kouandjio(LT) LT is such an important position and what a great value. Maybe his knees give out in his 2nd/3rd contract but at this price who cares?
57-Early(DE/OLB) On passing downs Ingram/Freeney should be on the field. Early has better size and can be a passing down DE or possibly move to LB.
89-Moncrief(WR) Not convinced that WR is a dire need but Moncrief is too good a player to pass on at the end of the third. Vincent Brown to the bench as a depth player where he belongs.
108-McGill(CB) Great size to cover anyone, and great value. So many CB's in this draft in a big tier after Gilbert/Dennard/Fuller slipped off the board. Still draft a starter at CB.
125-Yankey(G/C) Even if you are a Watt fan and planning on taking him here, how do you pass on Yankey?!
165-Abbrederis(WR) Just value. Raise your hand if you think Royal makes it through the season healthy. Seems like a perfect fit as a slot receiver in this offense and if you are a fan of Carrethers you can wait and still get him even if you need NT more than WR.
201-McCullers(NT) ...or Carrethers. We know McCullers would have been there but we can't be sure where Carrethers would have gone. All the NT's in this class are just run stuffing guys taking up two blockers. I don't see a lot of difference from top to bottom.
240-Leno(G/T) Yankey would start in 2014 at RG but people suggest he might be able to slide to C at some point. Leno developing in the wings to take over at G seems like a good plan. Possible backup T when Clary mercifully gets pushed off the roster.
UFA's - Marcus Roberson(CB)/Antonio Richardson(T)/James Hurst(G)/Brandon Coleman(TE)/Kelcy Quarles(DL)/Anthony Johnson(DL)/Morgan Breslin(OLB)/Christian Jones(OLB)
Be honest Charger fans, would you rather have draft A or draft B?
BoltBacker
Footballguy
That's not too surprising. I don't see much difference between the NT's that were available. I liked Ellis but he was the late riser that I usually shy away from. I thought it was a mistake going into this draft without a true NT on the roster. Still think Terrence Cody would have made a lot of sense on a very cheap contract($730k).
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
Umm that would have been a terrible draft. To begin with we already have a RT (doubt he stays at LT). Not to mention the one you took has bad knees.
Ealy is an awful fit for a 3-4 team. Attaochu brings speed off the edge that we sorely lack.
I liked Moncrief and probably would have preferred him, but the Chargers passed on him.
McGill is a head case and is a press corner. We don't press. Scheme fits matter.
32 other teams passed on Yankey repeatedly as well. From a few tweets post draft, media overhyped him. Teams don't think much of his athleticism.
I like Abrederris. He would have been solid.
I liked McCullers size, but there are a ton of knocks on him. Carruthers by all accounts seems perfect for our needs in the middle. Maybe he could have been had a round later, maybe not.
When it comes down to it, we filled our two biggest weaknesses with starters in the top 2 rounds. We also got potential starters in the 3rd and 5th. Pretty decent haul if they pan out and should fill immediate needs this year.
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
Whether he stays at LT depends a great deal on the team he's playing for. He would be a better pass blocker than the Chargers current LT. He has started at LT for a national champion SEC team so it's not like he's been blocking a bunch of stiffs up until now.
Yeah, if there were no questions about his knees(and if he ran faster in his under pants at the combine) he'd be a top 10 pick. The knees are the reason you can get a blue chip OT in the 40's of the NFL draft. As to the knees, they have been reported to be a long term issue, not a short term issue. What EXACTLY does that mean? Well, neither of us knows but James Andrews described the injury as a non-issue and I do know that he knows a lot more about what he's talking about than either of us on the issue.
Beerguzzler
Footballguy
You think he's better than Dunlap? C'mon.... Dunlap statistically was one of the best LT's in the league last year. He was also the top rated LT in run blocking. The only criticism you can make of Dunlap is his concussion issues last year. There's no chance in hell any rookie LT would come in and replace him.
http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/ol
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BoltBacker
Footballguy
When I typed that I think he'll be a better pass blocker than Dunlap, I meant I thought he would be a better pass blocker than Dunlap. Yes.Beerguzzler said:
When you bring up the fact that he missed almost a third of the season last year and had concussion issued I have to admit I'm more worried about Dunlap's concussion issues than I am than Kou's knees. Does it worry me that Dunlap has never started more than 3/4ths of the games in a season? Yes.
Perhaps most of all SD doesn't have a backup LT right now and if Dunlap does go down again Fluker would likely be forced to move Fluker over to the left side again. Does it seem ridiculous that SD has no backup at a position as important to the team as LT? Yes.
For that matter both QB and LT are such critical(and well compensated) positions I think it's very important that a team draft a young guy they are grooming in the wings to take over at a reasonable salary for several years.... even if the starter isn't at the end of his contract.
Drop
Footballguy
tommyGunZ
Footballguy
I think any rational Charger fan would like more depth at LT. Of course it's not easy to find that depth, and the Chargers obviously didn't see value when they were on the clock. We had needs in lots of areas, and I'm glad that eh Bolts didn't reach for a lessor talent at LT when they felt there was great value on the board at CB, OLB, and OG in the first 3 rounds.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
Well, be fair and admit that all the "they felt there was great value" and "pretty decent haul if they pan out talk" is pretty silly. AJ took players that he felt were great values and if they panned out he'd be wearing several superbowl rings. For the longest time we heard the Matt Millen defense whenever you criticized an AJ draft... he sees a lot more film, knows a lot more, blah blah blah.
I readily admit I'm more of the Charger pessimist and you are the Charger optimist. So which players do YOU think were great values that SD drafted? I completely agree there are lots of needs, all the more reason they should be looking to add picks by trading down instead of trading up and losing picks each year.
BoltBacker
Footballguy
It is tough to measure. I appreciate Beerguzzler bringing stats to back up his argument, but I think we interpret them differently. SD did a much better job of passing the ball without giving up sacks. That is great. Is it more of a result of the coaching staff emphasizing getting the ball out of Rivers quickly or did Clary turn into a much, much better pass blocker suddenly over night?
IMO the line was good at run blocking but poor at pass blocking just by "the eye" test. Rivers and the offense played well because of the new scheme and they could do even better if they had better blockers to work with. It's worth nothing that McCoy deserves a lot of credit for updating the passing game but Whisenhunt deserves a lot of credit for the running game last year. They have quite a stable of RB's to work with this year and are a better run blocking team but losing Whisenhunt will be a big loss imo.
Riversco
Footballguy
A mini-discussion on Frank Reich
Frank Reich was promoted from QB coach to Offensive Coordinator with the departure of Ken Whisenhunt. There's been several articles and interviews about this change around the net.
Rivers, Chargers set to unleash no-huddle attack
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000356456/article/philip-rivers-chargers-to-unleash-nohuddle-attack
Reich long trained for new job with Bolts
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jan/16/chargers-frank-reich-coordinator-bills-k-gun/2/?#article-copy
Reich sets tempo for Bolts offense
espn.go.com/blog/san-diego-chargers/post/_/id/5236/new-oc-reich-sets-tempo-for-bolts-offense
Notes:
1. Whisenhunt called the plays last year. Reich is going to call the plays this season. There seems to be some question as to if he will call ALL the plays.
2. One of the selling points of this promotion is that Reich called plays when he played QB for the Bills. All QBs called their own plays back then. 20 years ago?
3. Reich was QB coach for Peyton Manning with the Colts in 2009 and 2010. Rivers will be running Manning's old no-huddle scheme from his Colts days. There are also old K-gun concepts being installed from Reich's Bills days.
It all sounds good, but Reich is still unproven as play-caller. We'll see if he can adjust as teams get game film to study.
Frank Reich was promoted from QB coach to Offensive Coordinator with the departure of Ken Whisenhunt. There's been several articles and interviews about this change around the net.
Rivers, Chargers set to unleash no-huddle attack
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000356456/article/philip-rivers-chargers-to-unleash-nohuddle-attack
Reich long trained for new job with Bolts
http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Jan/16/chargers-frank-reich-coordinator-bills-k-gun/2/?#article-copy
Reich sets tempo for Bolts offense
espn.go.com/blog/san-diego-chargers/post/_/id/5236/new-oc-reich-sets-tempo-for-bolts-offense
Notes:
1. Whisenhunt called the plays last year. Reich is going to call the plays this season. There seems to be some question as to if he will call ALL the plays.
2. One of the selling points of this promotion is that Reich called plays when he played QB for the Bills. All QBs called their own plays back then. 20 years ago?
3. Reich was QB coach for Peyton Manning with the Colts in 2009 and 2010. Rivers will be running Manning's old no-huddle scheme from his Colts days. There are also old K-gun concepts being installed from Reich's Bills days.
It all sounds good, but Reich is still unproven as play-caller. We'll see if he can adjust as teams get game film to study.
Yeah, I'm usually completely against going after big-name free agents. But in this case, it's pretty enticing.
I don't know if cutting Clary is enough, though. May have to restructure a few other guys as well.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
False Start
Footballguy
Gonna be a money game for him. He will go wherever he gets the best deal.
If that is in San Diego, so be it, but at this point he is gonna take what he can get. He may not have many years left if he is already getting cut.
