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What if you have Coates stashed? Giving away a 2nd for Martavis seems pretty reasonable to me.
I don't see why that would matter at all. Coates being on my roster doesn't change Bryant's suspension or subsequent future risk.
Point well taken, mainly I think Yeldon retains his long term value if he can stay healthy. Ivory is basically signed to a 2 year, $12 million dollar deal and I foresee him getting cut/traded after that unless he does amazing. He also has a history of being banged up which could thrust Yeldon back into the bell cow position. Assuming both stay healthy I see Yeldon in the RB12-17 range. Solid RB2 with some weeks where he goes off for 20+ pts and others where he gets low single digits because Ivory steals the load.
Ok, maybe sell for what you can get is an overreaction, but I'd still try and move him from my team this offseason. I don't have faith in him remaining a top 10 WR and in my league that's what people still view him as. Also, while Peyton was QB DT had 5 games over 90 yards. With Brock? 2. And Brock was definitely playing better than Peyton. I'm not confident that DT will be as successful with any other QB as he was with Peyton and I'd feel better trading him away even at a perceived loss of value. In my league this year he was traded for a 2nd round pick and Jordan Reed. I'd do that trade in a heart beat.
Two words. Butt. Fumble.
I guess because then you have the Steelers' WR2 no matter who it is? Also, Bryant has top 5 WR upside (Anyone who put up 150+ yards against the Denver D last year has that upside). It's a huge risk but if you look at the players available in round 2 of this year's rookie draft, either one is a gamble. Assuming their 2nd round pick is 16th overall or later and according to 2016 Rookie ADP that would be trading Braxton Miller, Pharoh Cooper, or Jonathan Williams for Martavis Bryant. There's no guarantee that either of these 3 has the talent to make it in the NFL, whereas you know MB does. He has issues and the big gamble is whether or not he can get straight or will he be finished like Blackmon. As a Steelers fan I've read far too many articles about it and it appears like the team is really trying to support him, but at the same time is ready to cut ties if he can't turn things around. I play fantasy going for high-risk high-reward players, sometimes it pays off and sometimes it doesn't (Currently own Josh Gordon, in 2014 I traded Montee Ball (the sure thing) for an injured rookie WR... OBJ).
I still don't get why having Coates changes Bryant's value. He's still gone for a year minimum, and he is still one strike away from being gone for good. Paying more for a guy I don't yet have because of a guy I already have and paid for does not compute.steelers1080 said:
Good point about the different possible league types, I was just assuming standard, or non-contract.
I recently gave the 1.9 for Charles so I can pair him with David Johnson and Mark Ingram. I am in win now with 2 straight 2nd place finishes. I am well built for the future as well so the 1.9 had little value to me and was a no brainer for Charles.joey said:
Thanks for the tip. I just offered the 9 for Charles. I got the 9 by trading Forte the day he signed with the Jets.
you are likely right about his value but that value probably only applies to the 50% or so of owners that are willing to take that risk. There are a lot of us that avoid guys like him, M Bryant like the plague because that risk is just so so high
Yep, every one of them. Along with all the other trades in my leagues, unless there are small potatoes deals like a player for a a 4th or something cause in the FFPC those kinds of deals are no true indication of value at all. Why?
I'm coming out of a rebuild/retool and rolling with Derek Carr as my QB1 for now, so I'm pretty high on his prospects, BUT there's too much FF history over the past dozen years of team owners parking on an "elite" QB and posting winning season after winning season. Andrew Luck is that kind of player, and despite last year's problems, there's no reasonable offer that could persuade me to trade him.
I just noticed a pattern of criticizing others so I was just curious if you posted your completed trades.
Steeler1080 hit on it. What is the WR2 in Pittsburgh worth in the eyes of FF evaluators?
Assuming your 60% is right, I'm not trading for 60% of it, because I already own whatever of that you assign to Coates. What I'm getting is (60% - Coates' value). But the thing is, even if I don't already own Coates, I'm still getting (60% - Coates' value) by trading for Bryant. Owning Coates brings no more value to trading for Bryant than Bryant already has.
True. My implication was if someone owns Coates they probably like the Steelers offense. Someone who likes that offense could pay a 2nd for Bryant (also potentially in that offense), more than someone who hasn't invested in that offense who might offer a 3rd or 4th. They aren't inherently related, but it could imply that they like that situation and are willing to pay more.
But it's not a closed system. A hedge means if the original fails to pay off, the hedge will. If you had the Panthers for $1k at 10-1 in a pre-season bet, it makes all kinds of sense to put $5k on Denver at 2-1 the day of the game. You know you're winning $10k at the cost of a $5k hedge. There's no such correlation here. Coates can blow out a knee tomorrow and Bryant's value doesn't change because Bryant's value isn't based on Coates' presence, it's based on Bryant's expected production level - his risk factor. If you want to cite things that lower Bryant's risk factor or increase his production I'm listening.
Yeah, probably a wide range of opinions on him. But I think in every league there will be at least a couple owners who are going to value him on the high end of his range. Which means he is going to go in the 3rd or 4th round of a startup and if you own him you can get a top 35 overall player for him straight up in return. Maybe even more once he is officially re-instated.
Was surprised it got turned down. But it's a combined devy/rookie draft where 2017 draft eligible prospects are available to be picked (Chubb, Fournette, JuJu, etc.) right alongside the incoming rookies, so 2.01 and 2.03 have some added value compared to a normal rookie draft. Many of the top 2016 guys (Treadwell, Henry, Elliott, etc.) are already owned from last year, so it evens out a little bit. But overall the early 2nd rounders are worth more than a normal rookie draft because they can be used on a top 5-6 2017 devy player (usually 4-5 devys go round 1).
There are a couple other reasons I can think of that it is not a closed system, and why your argument is sound. Marcus Wheaton and DHB. Nobody is saying these guys are worldbeaters that would take Bryant's job if he comes back, but are we really convinced they would be pushed to the side by Coates? What about the potential for increased targets to Green and Bell? I'm simply not convinced that there will be such a thing as a worthwhile fantasy asset in Pittsburgh that isn't named Bell, Brown or Green. In my mind Wheaton is the closest. Take your pick amongst Coates, Wheaton and DHB from one week to the next (or a potential Steelers draft pick). That being said I might be marginally more interested in trading for Bryant if I had one of these other pieces, but it's marginal at best and my decision would be based solely on whether I was willing to take the risk. If Bryant falls off the map like Blackmon then I'm just not sure I care about Coates.
Upside is there, but it's hard to imagine his value skyrockets in any standard (1 QB) leagues.
I would expect Goff and Wentz to go before Kaep. If you are trying to sell him, I think a late 2nd to early 3rd is about the best you can hope for at this point in time. Listed him among my trade bait in one league and have yet to get an offer of any kind.
Personally I'd rather take my chances with Kaep but can definitely see some one preferring the rookies.
I would do it (though obviously offer pick 12 first to see if he takes that).matttyl said:
Here is where Bryant was drafted in the mocks thriftyrocker has been running.
Two years out is a long way away.matttyl said:
Agree that trading picks two years out is a potential mess. Problem mostly solved if you get payment upon completion of trade for that year. If you trade a 2018 1st you have to pay for 2017 and 2018 or the trade is void.
No experience with salary cap leagues, I think your valuation of Langford is about right, hes not special but he is in a good situation currently.
I do like him, pre draft rankings have him all over the place. I think ive seen him anywhere from wr4-10 so my guess is landing spot is gonna add some clarity as to how soon he can be an impact player if at all. I think pretty much every NFC east team would benefit from having him right away, or a team like you said ATL or Cincy, or AZ
I offered Langford for a 2017 1st and wasn't turned down outright, but he's still mulling it over.
The offer was from the commish himself - and he and I have both been in the league for over a decade now. Neither of us (and hopefully no one else) is going anywhere.
I'd put Eifert, Reed and (maybe) Kelce in a tier above the rest of those guys. Olsen has the age factor working against him or he'd be close to that tier as well.
