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***Official 2018 Baltimore Orioles Thread*** Pitching Can’t Get Any Worse (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter avoiding injuries
- Start date
RaveOriole
Footballguy
Gausman getting called up for Thursdays game. I'm excited to see how he does.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I thought he showed well. God, he looks 12 years old!He left one run behind, but had 3 really good innings. Bullpen fell apart afterwards, but plenty of time for a comeback. Chris Davis hit a mammoth HR. Good article on CBSSports the other day on Manny - basically "Plays like ARod, acts like Jeter". Lordy, does he hit ropes (leading the league in doubles, right?) - he hit another tonight that couldn't have been more than 15 feet ft off the ground and almost hit the wall.
Cliff Clavin
Footballguy
Thought he looked pretty good (Jays fan here). Needs some work on controlling his secondary pitches a bit better but that should come with some seasoning.
Northern Voice
Footballguy
Yeah, I thought he looked good too, lost command a bit in the later innings, but great stuff.Cliff Clavin said:
The_Man
Footballguy
I don't think I've had more love for an Oriole since Eddie Murray was a rookie, and I became an 8-year-old switch-hitting first baseman wearing sweat bands and trying to grow mutton chop sideburns.Uruk-Hai said:
Tonight he became the first 20-year-old to have 5 straight 3-hit games on the road since some guy named Ty Cobb did it in 1907. And he also made 3 great plays at 3B.
Of course it's early, but so far he's on pace to break the AL record for doubles in a season that has stood since 1931. I'm honestly surprised whenever he makes an out right now.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
He played - what? - one game at 3rd before the Orioles brought him up last year? As the article I referenced noted, he's as good already at charging slow-rollers and getting the out as, well......you know.As for the pitching prospects who haven't panned out, I don't care - keep drafting/signing them. It's not like those guys weren't highly regarded around the league when the Orioles got them. Pitchers are probably the least-predictable guys in major sports as far as who pans out & who busts. Acquire as many as you can. You can always trade for bats.I'm really liking the nucleus of this offense for the foreseeable future. McLouth (who I apparently mistakenly thought was a short-term wonder last year) reminds me of Donnie Buford - a sparkplug. He may never hit for a real high average, but his OBP and ability to steal bases make him a great leadoff guy.Manny's being Manny
Markakis - who, a couple of short years ago, was the face of the Os - has kind of gotten lost in the shuffle in terms of who people think of when they think "Orioles". They probably overpaid him for the production he gives but, at the time, they HAD to lock him up. In any case, he's quietly having a nice season.I guess it's the times we live in, but I really hope that Chris Davis is just eating his spinach and his play isn't due to other stuff. That dude is straight dialed-in. He's got one of those Griffey/Palmiero swings - kinda a loose, looping swing and then the ball takes off like it was shot out of a bazooka.Adam Jones gets a lot of criticism on various MBs and I just don't get it. I read "lazy, cocky, and non-chalant" way more than I see it on the field. Maybe he blows too many bubbles. All I know is that - besides Buck - he is the spiritual leader of this team and, I think, is a huge reason why the Orioles have had some success the last two years. Oh, and he's a pretty good player too.I'm starting to convince myself that Weiters will never be better than a .250 hitter and I'm ok with that.
The_Man
Footballguy
Manny chat activated: His 70 hits so far are most by any player under 21 before the start of June since 1921. Ken Griffey Jr had 66 in 1990.
Adam Jones is a complex figure. He is the opposite of lazy, cocky and nonchalant. The guy played 162 games last year and will play 162 this year. He busts his butt every night and is the leader of the team, establishing a tone of effort and accountability. But he's a very, very average (at best) centerfielder who somehow has a reputation that's secured him two Gold Gloves. People believe he's awesome, which he demonstrably is not. So when he struggles out there and drops balls, or lets them get over his head, people confuse his lack of ability with a lack of effort - like if he were "really" trying, he'd be making these plays.
Also, in case you hadn't noticed, he's black. In the city that reveres Brooks and Johnny U. and Cal, I never thought I'd see an African-American athlete embraced as a legend and leader like Ray Lewis was. All he had to do to earn that status was be one of the greatest and most dynamic players in the history of the NFL. Adam Jones is good, but until he becomes a sure-fire Hall of Fame player with Griffey-like status, he will always be suspect in the eyes of a large segment of the Baltimore sports fan population.
Adam Jones is a complex figure. He is the opposite of lazy, cocky and nonchalant. The guy played 162 games last year and will play 162 this year. He busts his butt every night and is the leader of the team, establishing a tone of effort and accountability. But he's a very, very average (at best) centerfielder who somehow has a reputation that's secured him two Gold Gloves. People believe he's awesome, which he demonstrably is not. So when he struggles out there and drops balls, or lets them get over his head, people confuse his lack of ability with a lack of effort - like if he were "really" trying, he'd be making these plays.
Also, in case you hadn't noticed, he's black. In the city that reveres Brooks and Johnny U. and Cal, I never thought I'd see an African-American athlete embraced as a legend and leader like Ray Lewis was. All he had to do to earn that status was be one of the greatest and most dynamic players in the history of the NFL. Adam Jones is good, but until he becomes a sure-fire Hall of Fame player with Griffey-like status, he will always be suspect in the eyes of a large segment of the Baltimore sports fan population.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
The subject of your 3rd paragraph was very much on my mind during my last post, but I stayed away from it. But since you brought it up.....I was going to post that I hear a lot of the same things said about Jones that I recall being said about Frank Robinson - "lazy" and all the rest. Frank was one the most hard-nosed guys who ever played, but my father & his friends would wait game after game for him to screw up so they could pounce on him. Meanwhile, Brooks would be hitting into 12,000 DPs with nary a word said.
It's funny - I hear less griping about his fielding than his baserunning, but maybe I'm just looking for it now.
He'll never be the player Frank Robby was, but another thing Jones has in common with him is the "effort and accountability" you mention above. Brooks said a million times that it took a guy like Frank to get the Orioles over the top.
Appropos of nothing, just before I read your post Jones slammed one off of the 3rd deck facade.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Oh, and I agree with your point about Ray Lewis. If what happened with him had occurred in the 70s, the fans would've run him out of town........so maybe, slowly, that kind of thinking is dying out. My dad LOVED Lenny Moore & Bubba Smith, but couldn't stand "uppity" John Mackey (has there ever been a more forgotten immortal than Mackey? for all of the hype about Ditka being the 1st modern TE, Mackey blows him out of the water).
The_Man
Footballguy
I hear you. And as I said above, I idolized Eddie Murray -- then I went away for college for a couple of years, and the next thing I know, he's been run out of town for being lazy, or sullen, or dare I say uppity? Lazy? He was another guy who played 162 games per year and was incredibly clutch. Cal looked up to him and thanked him in his HOF induction speech for being a leader and an inspiration.
It bums me out sometimes. Though it goes both ways in Bmore. Evenin 2011 there were people calling for Troy Smith to play over Flacco.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
Gausman got torched on his fastballs last night against the Nats. Kid has to learn you can't blow a 97mph heater by big-leaguers. I don't care how hard you throw, if you can control your curve or change-up you'll just be another Daniel Cabrera.
As for Manny Machado. If he doesn't make the all star game then there's something wrong with the system (Ok ... I'll put Miguel over Machado to start, but he's gotta make the team as a reserve for sure). That guy is just tearing up the ball, and to think his natural position is at SS? Kid is just amazing.
Still wish the pitching was more stable, but man does the offense put on a show.
As for Manny Machado. If he doesn't make the all star game then there's something wrong with the system (Ok ... I'll put Miguel over Machado to start, but he's gotta make the team as a reserve for sure). That guy is just tearing up the ball, and to think his natural position is at SS? Kid is just amazing.
Still wish the pitching was more stable, but man does the offense put on a show.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
The O's had to do that. Sometimes an organization has to show it will take care of it's own. And now it finally seems like Nicky is fitting into a good system. He's not the face anymore (never seemed like he is comfortable with that), he has a great CF on defense next to him, bats top of the order with speed in front of him and power behind him which allows him to swing the way he likes. Slap hitter to all fields, gets the balls in the gap with occasional power.
The_Man
Footballguy
Chris Davis is going supernova. Legendary night tonight with 2 HRs and 4-for-4 on his own t-shirt night.
He currently leads MLB in slugging by more than 100 points (.766 to Miguel Cabrera's .656). 150 points ahead of third place.
Nice to see Steve Johnson pick Tillman up, too.
What a night at the ballpark.
He currently leads MLB in slugging by more than 100 points (.766 to Miguel Cabrera's .656). 150 points ahead of third place.
Nice to see Steve Johnson pick Tillman up, too.
What a night at the ballpark.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
The_Man
Footballguy
Had to get me one of those Crush Davis t-shirts. Such a good time - kind of like some of the nights down the stretch last August and September.
It's kind of hard to explain the vibe, other than to say that Camden Yards finally feels a little bit like Memorial Stadium, except that the people rocking the place are too young to have ever gone to Memorial Stadium. That second Davis HR might be the most football-like atmosphere I've ever experienced at a baseball game.
Back in the glory days of Camden Yards (from its opening in 92 through the playoff years in 96 and 97), there was far too much of a DC and corporate crowd to make the place really rock. Then there were so many terrible years, when the only fans bringing the place to life were from Boston and New York. Now you've got the generation of young fans who don't remember life before the Ravens, and are used to going to games at M&T Bank where the crowds are so mental. They're infusing that Ravens spirit into the Orioles games - what they don't realize is that spirit got its roots in the Orioles of the late 70s and early 80s, and the Colts of the 60s and 70s.
Really nice to see it come full circle and again have people in their 20s filling up the ballpark and having a great time. Not to mention kids who have actual star players to get excited about. With another 2B last night, Manny is on pace for 73 for the season, which would break the 82-year-old AL record of 67.
It's kind of hard to explain the vibe, other than to say that Camden Yards finally feels a little bit like Memorial Stadium, except that the people rocking the place are too young to have ever gone to Memorial Stadium. That second Davis HR might be the most football-like atmosphere I've ever experienced at a baseball game.
Back in the glory days of Camden Yards (from its opening in 92 through the playoff years in 96 and 97), there was far too much of a DC and corporate crowd to make the place really rock. Then there were so many terrible years, when the only fans bringing the place to life were from Boston and New York. Now you've got the generation of young fans who don't remember life before the Ravens, and are used to going to games at M&T Bank where the crowds are so mental. They're infusing that Ravens spirit into the Orioles games - what they don't realize is that spirit got its roots in the Orioles of the late 70s and early 80s, and the Colts of the 60s and 70s.
Really nice to see it come full circle and again have people in their 20s filling up the ballpark and having a great time. Not to mention kids who have actual star players to get excited about. With another 2B last night, Manny is on pace for 73 for the season, which would break the 82-year-old AL record of 67.
The_Man
Footballguy
These T-shirts are currently being sold on eBay - top bid for one is $115. Nuts!
Davey Johnson quote from last night: "The first baseman is in heat."
One more: Orioles lead MLB in runs, hits, 2Bs, HRs, Stolen Bases, slugging and OPS.
As fun as it is to watch, I feel like they should have a better record right now - even if JJ had only blown 2 of those saves last week instead of 4, things would look a lot better!
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Man, I really hope Davis isn't on steroids. His season has been unreal so far and that would "crush" everything the Os have done this year.
The_Man
Footballguy
He hit 17 HRs in 295 at bats for Texas when he was 22, and hit 24 HRs in 193 at bats in Triple A in 2011.
The guy has always had incredible power, he's just putting it all together now at age 27.
Koya
Footballguy
Last year was his first full season, correct?
If that's the case, this is not an unrealistic trajectory as a good number of sluggers / hitters hit prime around 27 after meh before that and/or awaiting opportunity (Ryan Howard)
The_Man
Footballguy
MLB totals for Chris Davis:
2008, age 22, 17 HR, 23 2Bs in 295 ABs
2009, age 23, 21 HR, 15 2Bs in 391 ABs
2 crappy years, up and down to the minors, traded, 320 ABs total
2012, age 26, 33 HR, 20 2Bs in 515 ABs
As Koya notes, the power progression he has shown are consistent with that of a talented young slugger breaking out. That being said, few players have ever broken out quite like this.
Davis finished last year's regular season on an absolute tear, hitting 7 HRs in the final 7 games. Since Sept. 26, Davis has 26 HRs and 63 RBI in 59 games. That projects to 71 HR and 173 RBI over 162 games. It can't last forever, but it sure is fun to watch while it's happening.
2008, age 22, 17 HR, 23 2Bs in 295 ABs
2009, age 23, 21 HR, 15 2Bs in 391 ABs
2 crappy years, up and down to the minors, traded, 320 ABs total
2012, age 26, 33 HR, 20 2Bs in 515 ABs
As Koya notes, the power progression he has shown are consistent with that of a talented young slugger breaking out. That being said, few players have ever broken out quite like this.
Davis finished last year's regular season on an absolute tear, hitting 7 HRs in the final 7 games. Since Sept. 26, Davis has 26 HRs and 63 RBI in 59 games. That projects to 71 HR and 173 RBI over 162 games. It can't last forever, but it sure is fun to watch while it's happening.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
If he is ... i hope he doesn't get caught. it's just that he's hitting the ball now and not striking out. No one has ever doubted his power before.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
He hit it too high
Gausman was fantastic today & the bottom of the order/bench was, too.
Koya
Footballguy
While I (very sadly) missed on the Colts, I remember those late 70's and early '80's O's and the atmosphere at Memorial. It was my indoctrination into sports, and really was a great overall atmosphere (not to mention, cheap and easy). Remember parking in the lot, finding street parking and walking, or taking the long walk from my Grandmothers on Charles Street on a rare occasion.
What I THINK I remember was a walk off Eddie Murray HR (maybe it was 8th inning) of a game where the O's were losing like 8-5 or something. But it's one of those clouded memories of youth where I can't really be sure of the particulars, just the rush of emotion, and the noise, and the joy - the pure, unadulterated Bal'mer joy.
Would have been around '80, give or take a couple years.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Memorial was a dump, but what a dump it was back then! Monday nights were 2 Buck Nights - anywhere in the upper deck for $2. We always sat in Section 10, where most of the other AA County derelicts gathered. We'd pour a case or two of Natty Bohs into a big Thermos - the guys at the turnstiles would ask (wink,wink) what it was and we'd answer (wink,wink) "milkshakes". Hagy's section was the only one upstairs that was always pretty full. Like you, I know my memories are off-kilter due to personal myth-making (& Nattys) but I swear that Kenny Singleton hit a HR every time I went for at least 3 years. I'm also convinced Flanagan never lost a game because I don't recall seeing him lose one in person (on the other hand, my presence probably kept Scotty McGregor out of the HOF). On a related note, did the Os ever put out a video of the post-game activities of the last game at Memorial Stadium? On an unrelated note, a fun drinking game may be to take a shot every time Dempsey says "this ball club" in the Os post-game.
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Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Speaking of electric atmospheres, I know the long-time posters here are probably tired of me posting it but.....
I went to all 4 of those Os/Brewers games that ended the 1982 season (3 days - one was a double header). I have never, EVER, heard a crowd as loud as that place was that weekend. I've been to Ravens games, old Colts games, and a zillion MD grid/hoops games - nothing compares (MD/Duke at Cole in 2001 is the closest I can think of).
Orioles 3 games out with 4 to play and Earl had already announced his retirement. And Baltimore wins the first 3. It was the most insane (in a good way; I wouldn't take friggin Adolph Hitler to a Ravens game, it's so trashy) thing I've ever seen.
I went to all 4 of those Os/Brewers games that ended the 1982 season (3 days - one was a double header). I have never, EVER, heard a crowd as loud as that place was that weekend. I've been to Ravens games, old Colts games, and a zillion MD grid/hoops games - nothing compares (MD/Duke at Cole in 2001 is the closest I can think of).
Orioles 3 games out with 4 to play and Earl had already announced his retirement. And Baltimore wins the first 3. It was the most insane (in a good way; I wouldn't take friggin Adolph Hitler to a Ravens game, it's so trashy) thing I've ever seen.
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Koya
Footballguy
We almost always sat in the upper deck down the third base line, general admission. Remember still "zips" of beer from my dad. Mmmmm, early beer.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
RaveOriole
Footballguy
A bit of good news about Dylan Bundy
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-orioles-top-prospect-dylan-bundy-cleared-to-resume-throwing-20130603,0,411250.story
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-orioles-top-prospect-dylan-bundy-cleared-to-resume-throwing-20130603,0,411250.story
Pedro Strop just came into the game against the Angels. O's up 4-2 and Angels have runners on 1st and 2nd with no outs. It is quickly 8-4 with 1 out.
The Orioles need to seriously consider optioning Strop to the minors or DFA, depending on his status. Of course, after a brutal outing like this, a injury will frequently show up and he will go on the DL. But Strop has been pretty bad all season and the end of last season too.
The Orioles need to seriously consider optioning Strop to the minors or DFA, depending on his status. Of course, after a brutal outing like this, a injury will frequently show up and he will go on the DL. But Strop has been pretty bad all season and the end of last season too.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
yeah. I thought he just ran out of gas near the end of last year, but there's obviously something wrong with him. I wonder if they would bring Arietta up as a reliever, he's always good for an inning or two.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
bloop single. Love it
I'm wondering if it's motion or if hitters are just sitting on his fastball. Last year before anyone saw his slider or splitter he was getting people out with that, but he can't throw them for strikes, so hitters are just sitting on his fastball and teeing off. He's gotta be more consistant with his second pitches otherwise he'll continue to get destroyed.
The_Man
Footballguy
Here's an interesting stat I came across this morning:
Since July 4, 2012, Chris Tillman is 16-5 with a 3.26 ERA in 168 1/3 innings covering 29 starts.
I'm sold on Tillman, and I think Gonzalez and Chen are pretty good, too. Worried about Hammel. Britton is a big question mark, Arrieta is blech, Gausman's not ready and this is a lost year for Bundy. Man, I would love to see them go get a legit ace at the trading deadline. It would totally transform this team. Rotation could be:
Ace
Tillman
Gonzalez
Chen
Hammel
Send Freddy Garcia to the scrap heap, keep Britton, Arrieta and Gausman in the minors, bring back Steve Johnson (when healthy) as a long reliever/spot starter, and you're looking pretty good.
Update: Manny with another double last night, now on pace for 74. The 80-year-old MLB record is 67.
Since July 4, 2012, Chris Tillman is 16-5 with a 3.26 ERA in 168 1/3 innings covering 29 starts.
I'm sold on Tillman, and I think Gonzalez and Chen are pretty good, too. Worried about Hammel. Britton is a big question mark, Arrieta is blech, Gausman's not ready and this is a lost year for Bundy. Man, I would love to see them go get a legit ace at the trading deadline. It would totally transform this team. Rotation could be:
Ace
Tillman
Gonzalez
Chen
Hammel
Send Freddy Garcia to the scrap heap, keep Britton, Arrieta and Gausman in the minors, bring back Steve Johnson (when healthy) as a long reliever/spot starter, and you're looking pretty good.
Update: Manny with another double last night, now on pace for 74. The 80-year-old MLB record is 67.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
Hammel had an above average season last year, and we all hoped that it would continue, but it looks like he's reverted back to his old ways. Not sure what's going on with him this year, or maybe the AL hitters finally have enough tape on him.
I used to love Arietta. Dude has ace stuff, but he can't connect it. I'm thinking it's time to put him in the bullpen, sort of like Tommy Hunter. He already throws 95 and that's when he's saving his arm for the game, he'll probably top out at 99 in the bullpen.
Of the original 4 horsemen (Tillman, Britton, Arietta, and Matsuz) it looks like Tillman has the best chance of being the guy he was touted to be as a starter, although I'm not giving up on Britton and Matsuz just yet, especially Britton.
I like your idea of the rotation, but I'm just wondering what the Os will have to give up for someone like Garza. Duquette is not known for trading prospects for veterans. I get the feeling that he feels that the rotation they have is good enough and next year Gausman and Bundy should be up and both have legitimate ace stuff. I would bet that he doesn't make a move for a top of the line pitcher. If he does make a move, he'll do something like he did last year and pick up a guy like Saunders after the all-star break for a song to help out.
I used to love Arietta. Dude has ace stuff, but he can't connect it. I'm thinking it's time to put him in the bullpen, sort of like Tommy Hunter. He already throws 95 and that's when he's saving his arm for the game, he'll probably top out at 99 in the bullpen.
Of the original 4 horsemen (Tillman, Britton, Arietta, and Matsuz) it looks like Tillman has the best chance of being the guy he was touted to be as a starter, although I'm not giving up on Britton and Matsuz just yet, especially Britton.
I like your idea of the rotation, but I'm just wondering what the Os will have to give up for someone like Garza. Duquette is not known for trading prospects for veterans. I get the feeling that he feels that the rotation they have is good enough and next year Gausman and Bundy should be up and both have legitimate ace stuff. I would bet that he doesn't make a move for a top of the line pitcher. If he does make a move, he'll do something like he did last year and pick up a guy like Saunders after the all-star break for a song to help out.
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
Davis.
That is all.
That is all.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
Kinda tired of this Pedro Strop thing. That experiment is over if you ask me.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
Garcia optioned and Gausman called up again
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-orioles-option-freddy-garcia-to-norfolk-call-up-kevin-gausman-20130624,0,4284592.story
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-orioles-option-freddy-garcia-to-norfolk-call-up-kevin-gausman-20130624,0,4284592.story
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
avoiding injuries
Footballguy
@masnRoch: Dylan Bundy had a setback today while throwing from 120 feet. More discomfort right forearm/elbow. Will see Dr. Wilckens tomorrow or Wed.
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RaveOriole
Footballguy
Saw that too ... I blame the ghost of Ben McDonald's pitching career.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
And it's official.
Bundy is out for at least a year
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-dylan-bundy-to-undergo-tommy-john-surgery-thursday-morning-20130626,0,5197794.story
Bundy is out for at least a year
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/orioles/blog/bal-dylan-bundy-to-undergo-tommy-john-surgery-thursday-morning-20130626,0,5197794.story
Koya
Footballguy
Was wIth my dad all this week in Deep Creek Lake Md, but unfortunately they received Pittsburgh stations that far east so no O's games - maybe for the better considering the comeback/meltdown that occurred I believe was Thursday night. Too bad we couldnt share watching last nights which I saw back home in NY.The_Man said:Helluva game. Gausman saved Baltimore's butt when it looked like the Yanks were going to slaughter them.
Can Hunter be a full time closer? He was just filthy last night.
Need to somehow catch Boston now.
RaveOriole
Footballguy
I would think Hunter is next in line for the closer role. He's really developed well as a reliever. I still think Arrietta's career is in the bullpen as well, not sure why they haven't made that move with him yet.
