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***Official 2018 Baltimore Orioles Thread*** Pitching Can’t Get Any Worse (1 Viewer)

Trading Johnson for a bag of balls because Peter doesn't want to pay him $10 Million. Awesome. F this f'ing BS

They're lucky they could find someone to give them a player in return. Would have been embarrassing to non-tender him. They would have done it, don't get me wrong, just would have been embarrassing.

Get ready for a lot of the usual BS about how they'll be able to invest this money in other players, only to see them not invest it. Duquette will cry poor about increases due to Wieters and Davis, etc. Who cares? That's the nature of the game! You are supposed to keep your good players, while replacing the bad ones with more good ones.

It's so disappointing. Jones has already expressed his dissatisfaction on Twitter, and apparently a lot of other players are mad.

 
Well, our only relevant signing of the offseason seems to have blown up in our face.

I hope DD has a plan B, because plan A for this off season has been teeeeerrible.

 
Koya said:
avoiding injuries said:
Well, our only relevant signing of the offseason seems to have blown up in our face.

I hope DD has a plan B, because plan A for this off season has been teeeeerrible.
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How so?
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It appears Balfour has failed his physical putting the deal in serious jeopardy. Meanwhile, while we were waiting for the physical, the two other closers we were looking at signed with other clubs. Oakland got Johnson (which I'm fine with), but I think we know why billy bean wasn't trying to bring back Balfour.
 
avoiding injuries said:
Koya said:
avoiding injuries said:
Well, our only relevant signing of the offseason seems to have blown up in our face.

I hope DD has a plan B, because plan A for this off season has been teeeeerrible.
Click to expand...
How so?
Click to expand...
It appears Balfour has failed his physical putting the deal in serious jeopardy. Meanwhile, while we were waiting for the physical, the two other closers we were looking at signed with other clubs. Oakland got Johnson (which I'm fine with), but I think we know why billy bean wasn't trying to bring back Balfour.
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Ugh. I hadn't heard that up here in NY.

Thought it appeared to good to be true.

What was the issue with the failed physical? Do you know?

 
Koya said:
avoiding injuries said:
Koya said:
avoiding injuries said:
Well, our only relevant signing of the offseason seems to have blown up in our face.

I hope DD has a plan B, because plan A for this off season has been teeeeerrible.
Click to expand...
How so?
Click to expand...
It appears Balfour has failed his physical putting the deal in serious jeopardy. Meanwhile, while we were waiting for the physical, the two other closers we were looking at signed with other clubs. Oakland got Johnson (which I'm fine with), but I think we know why billy bean wasn't trying to bring back Balfour.
Click to expand...
Ugh. I hadn't heard that up here in NY.

Thought it appeared to good to be true.

What was the issue with the failed physical? Do you know?
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It's official, contract cancelled. They aren't saying what it was. Duquette said another club could overlook it, but the orioles can't. Seems like he is trying to save face for when Balfour signs somewhere else and is successful. I'll have to look, but without Johnson and Roberts, we'll have close to $20mm off the payroll with no extensions or significant acquisitions. Awesome

 
Crap. Paul Blair died. He was my favorite player growing up. I finally got his autograph a few years ago at an Os game.

Man, could he go get it in CF. Blair also turned himself into a pretty good hitter until he got his face broken by a pitch.

RIP, Motormouth.

 
Just touching base to say that Angelos' latest invocation of his favorite tactic for killing deals he doesn't like - the failed medical exam - in regard to Balfour is going to have major long-term ramifications for the Orioles.

In short, any agent who tells his client to sign with the Orioles as a free agent is essentially engaging in malpractice. Balfour took himself off the market by agreeing to a Baltimore deal. While waiting for the final approval, two other teams signed closers, taking away possible jobs. Then the Orioles sent him back into a now-depleted market, after raising new questions about his health. He is now not only potentially seen as damaged goods, but there are also fewer jobs available to him. Agreeing to sign with the Orioles, only to have them kill the deal, has definitely cost him millions of dollars.

So why in the world would any free agent with other viable options ever deal with the Orioles again? The answer is, they won't. I am so disgusted with this team, and it's clear the last two years of competitiveness were just a fluke, rather than the sign of any long-term change.

 
The_Man said:
Just touching base to say that Angelos' latest invocation of his favorite tactic for killing deals he doesn't like - the failed medical exam - in regard to Balfour is going to have major long-term ramifications for the Orioles.

In short, any agent who tells his client to sign with the Orioles as a free agent is essentially engaging in malpractice. Balfour took himself off the market by agreeing to a Baltimore deal. While waiting for the final approval, two other teams signed closers, taking away possible jobs. Then the Orioles sent him back into a now-depleted market, after raising new questions about his health. He is now not only potentially seen as damaged goods, but there are also fewer jobs available to him. Agreeing to sign with the Orioles, only to have them kill the deal, has definitely cost him millions of dollars.

So why in the world would any free agent with other viable options ever deal with the Orioles again? The answer is, they won't. I am so disgusted with this team, and it's clear the last two years of competitiveness were just a fluke, rather than the sign of any long-term change.
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I had the same exact feelings when this went down. Since a couple weeks have gone by and nobody has signed him, I'm wondering if there may have been some truth to it. Balfour said he had another offer on the table, assuming it wasn't one of the two teams that signed other closers during those couple of days, why hasn't anyone else signed him?

The Red Sox did something similar last year with Salty and it worked out ok for them. Balfour may have to settle for a contract loaded with incentives.

Still, the point in your post remains. This is not good for the Orioles. Baltimore was finally a town that people actually wanted to come, or at least considered it. Now, there's a chance we go back to being black listed.

 
Also, there's a new photo online showing Machado with ARod at a Jay-Z concert. The orioles board I visit are jumping to conclusions about it, mainly speculating that we will have a very hard time extending him if he becomes a diva.

 
avoiding injuries said:
Also, there's a new photo online showing Machado with ARod at a Jay-Z concert. The orioles board I visit are jumping to conclusions about it, mainly speculating that we will have a very hard time extending him if he becomes a diva.
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That seems like a very Baltimore thing to be worried about - along the lines of people bashing Adam Jones because he blows bubbles. Like a 21-year-old multi-millionaire shouldn't be allowed to go to a concert and/or hang out with his lifelong idol. I guess they think he should spend the winter like they (and their beloved Cal do), sitting inside and watching TV in some Baltimore suburb.

He won't be a free agent until 2019. There's no way the Orioles will extend him before then if Angelos is still alive. Orioles have been systematically dismantled as a franchise by its owner for more than a decade, have slashed payroll this off-season without adding any new pieces, and people are worried about who Manny is going to concerts with?

 
Bump for 2014. Will add more thoughts when I'm not on my phone.

Reimold to DL- Delmon Young and Steve Pearce are probably two final offensive players.

Hunter as the closer is my biggest concern. I hope buck doesn't blindly stick with him for all save situations regardless of performance. Britton has looked real good in the BP and I think I might feel more comfortable with him.

 
Starting 9: Flaherty (3B), Hardy (SS), Lombardozzi (2B), Davis (1B), Weiters ©, Lough (LF), Jones (CF), Markakis (RF), Cruz (DH)

Bench: Clevenger ©, Pearce (1B, OF, C), Weeks (PR, 2B), Young (PH, DH, OF)

Rotation: Tillman, Jimenez, Chen, Gonzalez, Norris

Bullpen: Hunter (Closer), O'Day (Setup), Matusz (LOOGY), Webb, Britton (LH middle/long relief), Stinson (RH middle/long relief), Meek

 
Pretty good 1st game for Cruz. The bullpen did great, but Hunter is still a question mark for me. I think that hit by pitch was because he was too amped by all of the opening day energy. Take that away and he had a good inning.

 
2 runs in both of the first two games. 3 of them on Cruz's HR's and no other RBIs. 3 total ABs with RISP.

I think it's safe to say the offense hasn't taken off.

 
Yeesh, the top of the lineup is a mess. They're really missing Machado in the #2 spot (Hardy is not a #2 hitter). They also need a true leadoff guy. Markakis has filled the role before in a pinch, but he can't be the every day guy.

 
avoiding injuries said:
God, I hope I don't jinx him.... But Tilman looked like an absolute #1 TOR guy yesterday. Both wins have come on his starts. Soooo good.
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I picked him up off WW before the season began in my FB league. Homer move for sure, but its working out so far.

I am thinking Norris is solid again this year.

But you are right, missing Manny hurts. That guy is gooooood.

 
Wow, pretty nice working winning the last 3 out of 4 on the road vs. Verlander and the Yankees. They are not that good a team without Hardy and Manny, hoping they can hold things together until both are back.

Bullpen is looking great, but will have their arms falling off by July again if the starters can't go deeper into games.

Tillman is looking like he's making the leap. It was fun watching him and AJ do so much to beat Verlander the other day and then wonder where Erik Bedard is now.

Real nice game for Schoop last night, both the HR and the huge hit in the 9th. Would you rather have him or Brian Roberts right now? I thought Brian was going to break his hand when he slapped his bat after striking out. Tommy Hunter doing a nice job so far, too.

Interesting questions with the rotation. Norfolk won't contain Gausman for long. Whose spot does he take - Norris, who has bullpen experience? Britton and Matusz are both so valuable in their current bullpen roles, I guess you can't put them in the rotation. Especially Matusz who is now a lights-out lefty and never showed he could succeed as a starter. But Britton is absolutely dealing and I would kind of like to see him have a chance at starting again.

Fun to have a team that matters, even with the 1-4 start.

 
Nice to see the offense picking it up lately. Going to need to see more of the rotation though. Tillman has looked like an ace so far, but the rest of the staff hasn't been great.

Hunter seems like he could make every save interesting, which is fine as long as he isn't blowing any games. Crazy to see how fast Jim Johnson has fallen. A's announced today he's no longer the closer. Glad to move that contract.

Really need to get Macahdo back in the lineup soon. Just not the same without him.

 
They said on Wednesdays broadcast that machado had a setback and it at least a few more weeks away.

Hunter scared me again, but got it done. Much better than Nails has done.

 
No two ways about it, this team is dramatically different without Manny and Hardy in there. I just hope they can hang around .500 for the first couple of months until Manny is fully healthy and perhaps Gausman and/or Britton is added to the rotation.

Already getting very nervous as this 6-0 lead has been cut in half. Chen ran out of gas in the 5th (like always) and I'm very worried about the 6th. I'd probably sit him down already, but that's not how Buck does things. He'll wait until Chen gives up a couple more runs, then sit him down.

 
The_Man said:
No two ways about it, this team is dramatically different without Manny and Hardy in there. I just hope they can hang around .500 for the first couple of months until Manny is fully healthy and perhaps Gausman and/or Britton is added to the rotation.

Already getting very nervous as this 6-0 lead has been cut in half. Chen ran out of gas in the 5th (like always) and I'm very worried about the 6th. I'd probably sit him down already, but that's not how Buck does things. He'll wait until Chen gives up a couple more runs, then sit him down.
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I don't understand why other than Tillman, the other starters struggle to get through 5 innings. I just don't get it.

 
Steve Pearce designated for assignment so they could bring T.J. McFarland up. That's one price they pay from their starters' short stints - they need to make a roster move just to make sure they have a live body who can pitch out of the bullpen tonight.

Not that Pearce had been doing much.

Bullpen continues to impress, but are again on pace to have their arms fall off by July. I hear Hardy is out again tonight - he's in a contract year, costing himself big $ right now. I hope he heals up. Different team when he's not anchoring the infield.

 
Manny has tore it up in Frederick this weekend. They're saying a possible Tuesday return, or else a few games at Norfolk to get better timing down followed by a weekend call up.

 
I have to admit I was pretty :sleep: when the Orioles signed Cruz, but thank God they did. He & Weiters have carried the offense thus far. Heal up quick, Crush. And get yer butt to CY, Manny.

 
I'm not sure I understand the trade for this new catcher. I thought Clevenger and Joseph were doing alright filling in for Weiters. On top of that, they gave up a lefty from the bullpen in order to get him.

I'll admit, I'm not the rapid Orioles fan, who tracks the farm system and the day-to-day aspects of the front office, so maybe there's more at play than what I understand. Bringing on a fourth catcher and giving up Patton seems odd, though.

 
Reading between the lines, it means they are very uncertain that Wieters will be back this season. He's not even playing catch yet and the whispers are that he'll have surgery soon so that he's back in time to play in 2015, which not so coincidentally is his last year before hitting the free agent market. Joseph will be sent down soon, and they'll have 2 catchers.

At this point in his career, Patton is just a guy. He'll fare much better in the NL than the AL East, where he was looking increasingly overmatched. They have plenty of guys who can do what he does.

This team is so close to being good. It's been frustrating waiting for everyone to be healthy and in the line-up together. Even without Wieters, they've hardly had Hardy, Machado and Davis in there with Markakis, Cruz and Jones. Cruz has been carrying this team, though the one HR I saw him hit in person has me relatively convinced he's juicing again. It was a super-high fly ball, looked like it would be short of the warning track, that the CF settled under about 3 different times, and every time he got settled the ball just kept going and going and going until it ended up in the bullpen. Looked like a textbook PED shot, in which a ball not hit squarely enough to go out ends up over the fence.

It's encouraging that this team hasn't come close to playing its best baseball and is over .500, just a couple of games out.

 
Thanks. That's the sort of tging that I don't follow. I knew Weiters was on the DL, but hadn't realized that his return has been delayed. I think that I knew he was in a contract year, but had forgotten. With those two pieces of information, the deal makes more sense.

I agree with your other points, too. After being so bad for so long, it is frustrating to be so close to a good ball club and just not quite getting there.

 
Weirdly, the Orioles sent down Clevenger instead of Caleb Joseph. Buck says they want Clevenger to play every day - makes me think they are eying him as Wieters' long-term replacement after he leaves via free agency following 2015.

 
Some quick thoughts:

1. Weiter's injury and prognosis are very vague. They had hoped that rest apparently a platlet rich injection would cure this elbow, but his still have soreness.

2. Caleb Joseph spent 4 years in AA Bowie and just this year made AAA. He will soon be 28 years old. His major league prospects, even as a back up catcher, don't look promising.

3. On Weiter's pending free agency, the Orioles have shown they are very frugal. They traded Jim Johnson for a borderline major league player (Jermile Weeks) so they would not have to pay Johnson's salary. Assuming he comes back healthy, Weiters is due a huge contract. I think I read he is likely get over $100M in free agency.

 
Marvelous said:
Some quick thoughts:

1. Weiter's injury and prognosis are very vague. They had hoped that rest apparently a platlet rich injection would cure this elbow, but his still have soreness.

2. Caleb Joseph spent 4 years in AA Bowie and just this year made AAA. He will soon be 28 years old. His major league prospects, even as a back up catcher, don't look promising.

3. On Weiter's pending free agency, the Orioles have shown they are very frugal. They traded Jim Johnson for a borderline major league player (Jermile Weeks) so they would not have to pay Johnson's salary. Assuming he comes back healthy, Weiters is due a huge contract. I think I read he is likely get over $100M in free agency.
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Three of the four players in major league history named Caleb have been active in the 2014 season (Gindl, Joseph, Thielbar). The fourth (Caleb Johnson) appeared in 16 games for the 1871 Cleveland Forest Citys and put up a .224/.224/.239 slash line.

 
:crickets:

Wieters has his follow-up with Dr. Andrews on Monday. Looking like surgery and gone for the year.

What was up with Manny's insane behavior during the Oakland series? Very happy to hear about the players-only meeting the next day and Manny's subsequent apology. Last year, the line on Manny was "Plays like ARod, acts like Jeter." This year, it's "Acts like ARod, plays like Jeter - in 2014."

The O's have only given up 1 run in the 3 games since. Unlucky that they only went 2-1 in that stretch. Big series with Toronto starts tonight. Hope Gausman can do it again. There is talk of a 6-man rotation, and I really think that might work for this team. Chen, Tillman, and Gonzalez are all demonstrably better on extra rest. Plus it means fewer starts for Jimenez as he tries to figure things outs.

Markakis is having a great season - he has a $17M option for next year which the team will clearly not pick up. Hope they can re-sign him for 3 years/$30M or something like that. His next hit will be #1452, tying him with Brian Roberts at #7 on the all-time Orioles hit list. He'll pass Singleton when he gets to 1456 and be #6 all alone. The Top 5?

Ripken

B. Robinson

Murray

Brady Anderson (1614 hits)

Powell (1574)

That's some pretty select company among the Orange & Black.

 
I didn't realize Brady was in the top 5 for hits as an Oriole. That's cool, I always liked him.

I think Manny learned his lesson, he needs to start hitting though. I am really excited about Gausman and hope he can duplicate his last effort.

 
The Orioles pitchers have been looking pretty good of late. Everyone except Jimenez, who starts tonight.

If Jimenez throws another clunker, I predict he will go on the DL with some sort of strained muscle. He will get a couple weeks of rest and some low key minor league rehab assignments to get things straighten out.

The Orioles were already planning to add Johan Santana to the pitching staff in mid/late June until he blew out his Achilles in a rehab assignment.

 
A co-worker went to the game last Wednesday. It was t-shirt night against the Red Sox. They gave out "The Oriole Way" t-shirts. She did not want it and gave me hers.



It is a pretty cool t-shirt. It has a bunch of sayings from yesteryear and more recent. There is a number 4 in a white circle with the words "Pitching , Fundamentals, & 3 Run Homers. Near the bottom, it lists all the Orioles retired numbers. It is a bunch of stuff only an Oriole fan would appreciate.



I just saw on ebay that these shirts are selling for $23-$27. I thought that was hard to believe. Apparently there is a market for the oriole promo t-shirts.



We got tickets for the July 9 game against the Nationals. It is also another t-shirt night.



The last time I went to a t-shirt night, they were giving away Brian Matusz t-shirts. My daughter wears no. 17 for softball and wanted one. It was a cold blustery day in May. The announce crowd was around 11k, but there must have been maybe 3k in the stadium. All the t-shirts were XL and it was for the first 10k who were 15 or older. The lady initially did not want to give my daughter a t-shirt, but eventually did. She still wears is as a night shirt regularly. And I still wear mine periodically.

 
ClownCausedChaos2 said:
I'm not sure I understand the trade for this new catcher. I thought Clevenger and Joseph were doing alright filling in for Weiters. On top of that, they gave up a lefty from the bullpen in order to get him.

I'll admit, I'm not the rapid Orioles fan, who tracks the farm system and the day-to-day aspects of the front office, so maybe there's more at play than what I understand. Bringing on a fourth catcher and giving up Patton seems odd, though.
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Looking back at this trade, Patton was not pitching that well and the Orioles maybe were not happy with the 50 game suspension. But Nick Hunley appears to be a pretty bad catcher. He is weak defensively and not much of a hitter.

 
Orioles may be up to more roster wizardry. Last night (actually early this morning), they optioned Kevin Gausman to Norfolk. They will probably bring him back as the 26th player for the double header next Friday. Then he will likely be recalled to make his next start July 2 or 3. The callup for the double header does not restart the clock on the 10 days he needs to stay in the minors before being recalled.

Thus Gausman gets demoted to Norfolk and never throws a pitch for them. And he doesn't miss a start for the Orioles, although his next start gets pushed back a couple of days.

Earlier this year, Steve Pearce was designated for assignment. The Chris Davis got hurt. So the Orioles waive Pearce, put Davis on the DL, and don't fill the empty roster spot. Through an obscure rule, if they don't have a full 25 man roster, they can bring Pearce back without having to wait 30 days. Pearce then turns down a waiver claim by Toronto and comes back to the Orioles immediately. He has been having a career year ever since.

 
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Orioles are churning their roster again leading up to the All Star break.

I thought Gausman would be up with the Orioles for good, but he was optioned to Norfolk once again. He is paying the price for only lasting 5.1 innings, then the bullpen blowing a sizable lead and needing to 6.2 innings before getting the win. The bullpen is over taxed. Bullpen also threw 5.1 innings after Jimenez's short start Saturday. McFarland only needed 0.1 innings to blow the afternoon game against Boston. If Tillman does not pitch deep into the game, they need an arm to eat us some innings.

Orioles called up Julio DePaula. I am surprised they did not call up Preston Guilmet, who was the 26th player last Saturday.

Chen will probably pitch Wednesday. Most likely he will be optioned to Norfolk for yet another reliever.

It will be interesting how Buck will set up the pitching rotation after the break. With four days off, he can line them up anyway he wants. And he has six starters still. I could see Gausman taking the first game, then Chen the 2nd. But Gausman could get pushed back if they would rather keep an extra bullpen arm around.

 
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