What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

***Official Academy Awards Discussion Thread*** - Anora is the Big Winner (1 Viewer)

Thanks, someone shared that clip on Instagram and I didn’t know how to share it here.

Carrey speaks quite eloquently on the topic imo. 
He does, and I have no doubt that he is being honest, but he wouldn't be saying that if he was still in his prime and was still getting high paying roles.  He has little to lose now by saying it.  I am sure there are many out there now who will keep their mouths shut about it, for fear of being blacklisted. 

 
Remember MOVE in 1985?  It’s the only time in American history when the government bombed its own people.
Long live John Africa!  I've always been fascinated by MOVE.  What made John so captivating to that group?  He was apparently illiterate, a Powelton village weirdo until a grad student from UPenn turned John's ramblings into the MOVE bible.  I've searched and only ever found one short clip of a reporter asking John something as he was released from jail on a petty charge.  I remember John was wearing shades and he seemed like a really cool guy.

I think MOVE got railroaded with those life sentences in 1978.  The cops were shooting on top of each other and it was likely friendly fire that killed one of them.  The bombing in 1985 was a continuation of the city's poor management of the situation.  Maybe Waco is the closest comparison.

 
The best documentary award was upstaged just a bit by the slap. That is a shame because I think winner Summer of Soul was the best movie of the year. Crank it up!

trailer  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Long live John Africa!  I've always been fascinated by MOVE.  What made John so captivating to that group?  He was apparently illiterate, a Powelton village weirdo until a grad student from UPenn turned John's ramblings into the MOVE bible.  I've searched and only ever found one short clip of a reporter asking John something as he was released from jail on a petty charge.  I remember John was wearing shades and he seemed like a really cool guy.

I think MOVE got railroaded with those life sentences in 1978.  The cops were shooting on top of each other and it was likely friendly fire that killed one of them.  The bombing in 1985 was a continuation of the city's poor management of the situation.  Maybe Waco is the closest comparison.
It would make for a great movie.  So many angles to the story. even up to this day.

 
The best documentary award was upstaged just bit by the slap. That is a shame because I think winner Summer of Soul was the best movie of the year. Crank it up!

trailer  
Did you see it?  Looks fantastic.  Crazy that I’ve never heard of it until just this minute (the movie and the event).

 
The best documentary award was upstaged just bit by the slap. That is a shame because I think winner Summer of Soul was the best movie of the year. Crank it up!

trailer  


I've so far seen very few of the top movies from 2021 (just starting on them now, other than the shorts of course), but it's definitely one of the best documentaries I've seen in years.

 
These are deeply disturbed and unserious people...

Will Smith Oscars slap exemplifies 'anti-Black' system

"There is a segment of the population that believes that although Smith was justified in his anger, he shouldn’t have behaved that way in front of ‘mixed company.’ Many of us are socialized to believe that there is no time and place for Black anger or emotion, especially not in front of non-Black people," Asare wrote. "By saying that Will Smith shouldn’t have reacted that way because of how he will be perceived by the largely white audience is the perpetuation of the white gaze."

...

"This is about a much larger systemic issue rooted in white supremacist culture designed to police the behavior of Blacks amongst the who’s who in Hollywood and beyond. Respectability politics suggest that equity and fair treatment require that Black people — both inside and outside of Hollywood — conduct ourselves in a manner deemed acceptable to whites,"

 
Last edited by a moderator:
These are deeply disturbed and unserious people...

Will Smith Oscars slap exemplifies 'anti-Black' system

"There is a segment of the population that believes that although Smith was justified in his anger, he shouldn’t have behaved that way in front of ‘mixed company.’ Many of us are socialized to believe that there is no time and place for Black anger or emotion, especially not in front of non-Black people," Asare wrote. "By saying that Will Smith shouldn’t have reacted that way because of how he will be perceived by the largely white audience is the perpetuation of the white gaze."

...

"This is about a much larger systemic issue rooted in white supremacist culture designed to police the behavior of Blacks amongst the who’s who in Hollywood and beyond. Respectability politics suggest that equity and fair treatment require that Black people — both inside and outside of Hollywood — conduct ourselves in a manner deemed acceptable to whites,"
Ok. I am officially abandoning all hope.

 
This is 1,000% spot on.  I don't understand the Will Smith supportive takes that are coming from Offdee, DJax and others.  All good - everyone is entitled to their opinion.  But I'm with Kareem on this
I don't support Will Smith...it was an unnecessary move on his part.   What I'm saying, is it wasn't as big of a deal as people are making it out to be.  It's not that deep, it was a slap.  A SLAP.

 
Would it be "just a slap" if it was a woman?


Which situation? Unless you're asking about both:

a) If Jada Pinkett-Smith walked up and slapped Chris Rock
b) If Will Smith walked up and slapped Regina Hall

Jada slapping Chris Rock would've generated at least as much attention, but a lot less condemnation. One of those "it's just different, somehow" things.

Will Smith slapping Hall (or any woman) would've been a career-ender for him.

 
A slap and a punch are both assault. Maybe a shove is assault too.

You don't agree a slap is different than a punch?
Just riffing off this a bit:

It's a darn good thing for Will Smith that it wasn't a punch. Up until the moment Smith turned his hips, Chris Rock thought it was going to be some kind of non-violent "show of anger". Rock didn't put his hands up, didn't lean back, didn't dodge, nothing.

An uncontested punch would've likely caused some kind of injury to Rock. That would've upped the stakes and immediate consequences considerably.

 
I've been thinking a bit about the Academy Awards and the show the last couple days.   IMO if they want to save the show it comes down to having more nominations of "mainstream" movies, and having said movies available sooner so people can easily watch these movies before the show.  

The tough part is that balancing act of not getting away from what they want their brand to be - celebrating the art of great films, and that the typical "mainstream" movie isn't about that as much.  

A few changes that popped into my head:

  • stick to mostly actors hosting and presenting.   Or at least people mainly associated with the movie industry.
  • introduce categories that still highlight the craft of movies, but would naturally bring in blockbuster/mainstream movies -  choreography (dance and/or martial arts), voice acting, motion capture acting? 
  • show "exclusive" footage, have fun with it, and have this be your source of poking fun at the nominees, but without taking shots about their life.  
That last one was tied to me thinking about how much I miss dvd content and wondering if people miss it.  So what I mean is show some dumb bloopers to laugh at the nominees.   Show a fast behind the scenes clip,  show a quick unedited scene vs. what was on the screen, whatever.   Basically remind people or educate people why they should be caring about sound editing, cinematography, or set design in the first place. People smarter than me I am sure could figure out how to have more fun with this, while still keeping the focus on movies and the craft of making them.  

 
So anyway, my track record of correctly predicting the shorts winners would have come to a screeching halt this year. 

It was an odd year for the shorts in the animated category, with four of the five being very adult in nature and one of them  - "Bestia," which was based on a true story of an officer in Augusto Pinochet's secret police - being truly disturbing.  To me, this was a weak crop in what is usually my favorite category of shorts.  The two stand-outs were "Robin Robin" and "The Windshield Wiper."  The former is the kid-friendly one, the story of a robin who believes he's a mouse.  It was distributed by Netflix (a big player in shorts) and featured voices by some celebrities, so was generally considered to be the favorite, but as charming as it was, I preferred "The Windshield Wiper," one of the most gorgeously drawn shorts I've ever seen and a layered but not overwrought meditation on the nature of modern love.  Similar to 2010 when one of my all-time favorite shorts, "The Lost Thing," beat the celebrity-voiced and much higher-profile "The Gruffalo," this year "The Windshield Wiper" pulled off the upset!  Yay!  Both "The Windshield Wiper" and "Robin Robin" are available to stream (with the former being available for free and the latter on Netflix); I don't think any of the others are.

Likewise to me, the live-action shorts weren't quite as strong this year as in years past, and in this case the winner, "The Long Goodbye," was one I did not enjoy.  As a huge fan of Riz Ahmed, I had high expectations, but a great build-up and terrific acting are ruined in this one by a jarring rant at the end that seemingly comes out of nowhere and, while I might agree with its premises (addressing Islamophobia) was ridiculously heavy-handed.  I didn't expect this one to win, but perhaps the power of Ahmed and his performance propelled it.  My favorites were "The Dress," a story of a little-person Polish maid who seeks a normal life of love and heartbreak, and "Ala Kachuu," a tale of kidnapping a bride for an arranged marriage in Kyrgyzstan, both of which shorts featured incredible lead actress performances. 

My favorite program of shorts this year was the documentaries, with three of the five being very strong pieces that would have been deserving winners.  I would have picked to win either "Lead Me Home," an understandably upsetting look at the issues of homelessness in Seattle and San Francisco, or "Audible," about the football team at the Maryland School for the Deaf.  The winner, "The Queen of Basketball," is the story of Lusia Harris, who was a basketball pioneer, winning three college championships and becoming the first woman to score a basket in an Olympics as well as the first (and only) to have been drafted by an NBA team.  This was actually my favorite of the documentary shorts even though I didn't predict it to win, as it's a fascinating story I knew nothing of, and "Lucy" herself is such a charming and compelling narrator of it.   Highly recommend spending 20 minutes or so on this one, as well as checking out all of the other nominees except "When We Were Bullies," which I found too self-indulgent.  All four of those I recommend are on Netflix or otherwise streaming; here's where you can watch the winner without any subscription:  https://www.shortoftheweek.com/2021/08/03/the-queen-of-basketball/

 
Last edited by a moderator:
So anyway, my track record of correctly predicting the shorts winners would have come to a screeching halt this year. 

It was an odd year for the shorts in the animated category, with four of the five being very adult in nature and one of them  - "Bestia," which was based on a true story of an officer in Augusto Pinochet's secret police - being truly disturbing.  To me, this was a weak crop in what is usually my favorite category of shorts.  The two stand-outs were "Robin Robin" and "The Windshield Wiper."  The former is the kid-friendly one, the story of a robin who believes he's a mouse.  It was distributed by Netflix (a big player in shorts) and featured voices by some celebrities, so was generally considered to be the favorite, but as charming as it was, I preferred "The Windshield Wiper," one of the most gorgeously drawn shorts I've ever seen and a layered but not overwrought meditation on the nature of modern love.  Similar to 2010 when one of my all-time favorite shorts, "The Lost Thing," beat the celebrity-voiced and much higher-profile "The Gruffalo," this year "The Windshield Wiper" pulled off the upset!  Yay!  Both "The Windshield Wiper" and "Robin Robin" are available to stream (with the former being available for free and the latter on Netflix); I don't think any of the others are.

Likewise to me, the live-action shorts weren't quite as strong this year as in years past, and in this case the winner, "The Long Goodbye," was one I did not enjoy.  As a huge fan of Riz Ahmed, I had high expectations, but a great build-up and terrific acting are ruined in this one by a jarring rant at the end that seemingly comes out of nowhere and, while I might agree with its premises (addressing Islamophobia) was ridiculously heavy-handed.  I didn't expect this one to win, but perhaps the power of Ahmed and his performance propelled it.  My favorites were "The Dress," a story of a little-person Polish maid who seeks a normal life of love and heartbreak, and "Ala Kachuu," a tale of kidnapping a bride for an arranged marriage in Kyrgyzstan, both of which shorts featured incredible lead actress performances. 

My favorite program of shorts this year was the documentaries, with four of the five being very strong pieces that would have been deserving winners.  I would have picked to win either "Lead Me Home," an understandably upsetting look at the issues of homelessness in Seattle and San Francisco, or "Audible," about the football team at the Maryland School for the Deaf.  The winner, "The Queen of Basketball," is the story of Lusia Harris, who was a basketball pioneer, winning three college championships and becoming the first woman to score a basket in an Olympics as well as the first (and only) to have been drafted by an NBA team.  This was actually my favorite of the documentary shorts even though I didn't predict it to win, as it's a fascinating story I knew nothing of, and "Lucy" herself is such a charming and compelling narrator of it.   Highly recommend spending 20 minutes or so on this one, as well as checking out all of the other nominees except "When We Were Bullies," which I found too self-indulgent.  All four of those I recommend are on Netflix or otherwise streaming; here's where you can watch the winner without any subscription:  https://www.shortoftheweek.com/2021/08/03/the-queen-of-basketball/
Why are you mucking up the Will Smith thread with relevant Oscar commentary?

 
So anyway, my track record of correctly predicting the shorts winners would have come to a screeching halt this year. 

It was an odd year for the shorts in the animated category, with four of the five being very adult in nature and one of them  - "Bestia," which was based on a true story of an officer in Augusto Pinochet's secret police - being truly disturbing.  To me, this was a weak crop in what is usually my favorite category of shorts.  The two stand-outs were "Robin Robin" and "The Windshield Wiper."  The former is the kid-friendly one, the story of a robin who believes he's a mouse.  It was distributed by Netflix (a big player in shorts) and featured voices by some celebrities, so was generally considered to be the favorite, but as charming as it was, I preferred "The Windshield Wiper," one of the most gorgeously drawn shorts I've ever seen and a layered but not overwrought meditation on the nature of modern love.  Similar to 2010 when one of my all-time favorite shorts, "The Lost Thing," beat the celebrity-voiced and much higher-profile "The Gruffalo," this year "The Windshield Wiper" pulled off the upset!  Yay!  Both "The Windshield Wiper" and "Robin Robin" are available to stream (with the former being available for free and the latter on Netflix); I don't think any of the others are.

Likewise to me, the live-action shorts weren't quite as strong this year as in years past, and in this case the winner, "The Long Goodbye," was one I did not enjoy.  As a huge fan of Riz Ahmed, I had high expectations, but a great build-up and terrific acting are ruined in this one by a jarring rant at the end that seemingly comes out of nowhere and, while I might agree with its premises (addressing Islamophobia) was ridiculously heavy-handed.  I didn't expect this one to win, but perhaps the power of Ahmed and his performance propelled it.  My favorites were "The Dress," a story of a little-person Polish maid who seeks a normal life of love and heartbreak, and "Ala Kachuu," a tale of kidnapping a bride for an arranged marriage in Kyrgyzstan, both of which shorts featured incredible lead actress performances. 

My favorite program of shorts this year was the documentaries, with four of the five being very strong pieces that would have been deserving winners.  I would have picked to win either "Lead Me Home," an understandably upsetting look at the issues of homelessness in Seattle and San Francisco, or "Audible," about the football team at the Maryland School for the Deaf.  The winner, "The Queen of Basketball," is the story of Lusia Harris, who was a basketball pioneer, winning three college championships and becoming the first woman to score a basket in an Olympics as well as the first (and only) to have been drafted by an NBA team.  This was actually my favorite of the documentary shorts even though I didn't predict it to win, as it's a fascinating story I knew nothing of, and "Lucy" herself is such a charming and compelling narrator of it.   Highly recommend spending 20 minutes or so on this one, as well as checking out all of the other nominees except "When We Were Bullies," which I found too self-indulgent.  All four of those I recommend are on Netflix or otherwise streaming; here's where you can watch the winner without any subscription:  https://www.shortoftheweek.com/2021/08/03/the-queen-of-basketball/
I am in this category too. I thought he was fantastic in “The Night Of” and then haven’t seen him in much since except “Sound Of Metal” (which I loved as well). 

 
He does, and I have no doubt that he is being honest, but he wouldn't be saying that if he was still in his prime and was still getting high paying roles.  He has little to lose now by saying it.  I am sure there are many out there now who will keep their mouths shut about it, for fear of being blacklisted. 
Good point. I think Carrey’s age has something to do with it as well. He’s 60 now and seems much more introspective and wise in interviews I’ve seen , for example with Seinfeld on “Comedians In Cars….”

He might have always had the perspective on such matters, but he was too busy giving the people what they wanted by talking out of his butt, etc.

Based on his interviews it seems like he took a step back from Hollywood rather than them casting him aside. 

 
My favorite program of shorts this year was the documentaries, with four of the five being very strong pieces that would have been deserving winners.  I would have picked to win either "Lead Me Home," an understandably upsetting look at the issues of homelessness in Seattle and San Francisco, or "Audible," about the football team at the Maryland School for the Deaf.  The winner, "The Queen of Basketball," is the story of Lusia Harris, who was a basketball pioneer, winning three college championships and becoming the first woman to score a basket in an Olympics as well as the first (and only) to have been drafted by an NBA team.  This was actually my favorite of the documentary shorts even though I didn't predict it to win, as it's a fascinating story I knew nothing of, and "Lucy" herself is such a charming and compelling narrator of it.   Highly recommend spending 20 minutes or so on this one, as well as checking out all of the other nominees except "When We Were Bullies," which I found too self-indulgent.  All four of those I recommend are on Netflix or otherwise streaming; here's where you can watch the winner without any subscription:  https://www.shortoftheweek.com/2021/08/03/the-queen-of-basketball/


You know, since this is a football site, I want to make a specific recommendation to watch "Audible," which I mentioned above and is probably tied with "The Queen of Basketball" as my favorite this year.  It's on Netflix and is a lovely and amazing story of this deaf football team and one of its players in particular.  These shorts don't require much commitment (<40 minutes for this one and <25 minutes for The Queen of Basketball) and are well worth the short amount of time.  @Ilov80s, I think you'd appreciate it as an educator, too.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Well this has taken a turn.  Smith was told to leave the building after the assault and refused.  What? He refused? Who the F does he think he is? And now very strong opinions are coming out left and right against Smith.  There is mounting pressure on the Academy to not make this a hand slap.  I bet he gets a minimum one year time out from the Academy if not a lifetime ban. He may ultimately face charges.  Rock could change his mind.  I hope Rock consults with Jim Carrey, who said he would sue Smith for $200M.  "The video of Chris getting slapped will be played forever.  Forever.  I'd sue him for $200M".

 
Well this has taken a turn.  Smith was told to leave the building after the assault and refused.  What? He refused? Who the F does he think he is? And now very strong opinions are coming out left and right against Smith.  There is mounting pressure on the Academy to not make this a hand slap.  I bet he gets a minimum one year time out from the Academy if not a lifetime ban. He may ultimately face charges.  Rock could change his mind.  I hope Rock consults with Jim Carrey, who said he would sue Smith for $200M.  "The video of Chris getting slapped will be played forever.  Forever.  I'd sue him for $200M".
While I don't think Rock will change his mind and press charges, I would not be surprised if other comedians are getting in his ear about this, as they cannot be happy since the last thing they want is every idiot with liquid courage at clubs everywhere to run up to slap them thinking it is okay because "Will Smith did it and got away with it."  I saw a quote from Jimmy Kimmel that said that Will Smith probably has 0 comedian friends now, and while that was certainly hyperbole, it likely echoes how a lot of joke tellers are feeling.  

 
Just riffing off this a bit:

It's a darn good thing for Will Smith that it wasn't a punch. Up until the moment Smith turned his hips, Chris Rock thought it was going to be some kind of non-violent "show of anger". Rock didn't put his hands up, didn't lean back, didn't dodge, nothing.

An uncontested punch would've likely caused some kind of injury to Rock. That would've upped the stakes and immediate consequences considerably.


The damage to Rock wasn't physical--it was to his reputation.  Jim Carrey said he would sue Smith for $200MM.  Howard Stern talked about this too--Chris Rock will always be remembered as the guy who got ##### slapped.

 
Follow up on @Judge Smails point above.

From NPR:  Will Smith refused to leave the Oscars following the slap, Academy says

The Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences said actor Will Smith could face suspension, expulsion or other consequences for having gone on stage during the Oscars ceremony to slap comedian Chris Rock after a joke he made about Jada Pinkett Smith's hair.

In a statement, the Academy said that Smith was asked to leave the ceremony and refused. Shortly after the incident, Smith went on to accept his award as Best Actor for his role in the film "King Richard."

The Academy said it was "a deeply shocking, traumatic event to witness in-person and on television."

 
It is also worth noting that Chris Rock's brother said today that P Diddy's comment about Rock and Smith making up backstage Sunday night was a lie and that Smith has still not reached out to his brother to personally apologize. 

 
It is also worth noting that Chris Rock's brother said today that P Diddy's comment about Rock and Smith making up backstage Sunday night was a lie and that Smith has still not reached out to his brother to personally apologize. 
IMO, any apology that isn’t made directly to the person is a fake apology. Part of an apology is allowing the other person to respond, even if that response is a rejection of the apology. Anything else strikes me as self-serving PR.

 
I really hope a strong message is sent to Will Smith, preferably in the form of an arrest and charges of assault and battery.  People need to see that what he did was not acceptable.  Too many people on TV and in here are defending his actions.  We have enough of a crime problem in this country.  The last thing we need is people getting violent every time they're upset by words.  Hell if that's the case I'll be slapping people silly all day long. The country will end up losing like this.

 
Well this has taken a turn.  Smith was told to leave the building after the assault and refused.  What? He refused? Who the F does he think he is? And now very strong opinions are coming out left and right against Smith.  There is mounting pressure on the Academy to not make this a hand slap.  I bet he gets a minimum one year time out from the Academy if not a lifetime ban. He may ultimately face charges.  
There's a lot of badness in the world.  I see it every day.  I've sentenced boys younger than Will Smith to the gas chamber.  Didn't want to do it.  I felt I owed it to them.

 
I really hope a strong message is sent to Will Smith, preferably in the form of an arrest and charges of assault and battery.  People need to see that what he did was not acceptable.  Too many people on TV and in here are defending his actions.  We have enough of a crime problem in this country.  The last thing we need is people getting violent every time they're upset by words.  Hell if that's the case I'll be slapping people silly all day long. The country will end up losing like this.
I actually thought things might become like this: https://youtu.be/AjXooH2tokY

 
I really hope a strong message is sent to Will Smith, preferably in the form of an arrest and charges of assault and battery.  People need to see that what he did was not acceptable.  Too many people on TV and in here are defending his actions.  We have enough of a crime problem in this country.  The last thing we need is people getting violent every time they're upset by words.  Hell if that's the case I'll be slapping people silly all day long. The country will end up losing like this.
It's not like Smith getting arrested and charged will suddenly make any delusional enough to think he's the good guy here realize that he's not.  They would just dig in more in making him the victim. 

And I don't think Will Smith is a bad guy. I just think he made a tremendous error in judgment and made a big mistake.  Before this week, I don't think I had ever heard anyone say they didn't like him.  Not saying everyone loved him, but he was one of those celebs that didn't seem dislikable to just about anyone, and now that is gone forever.  All because of 30 seconds where he lost his temper.  I think it is usually a mistake to judge someone by their worst moments, as we all have our bad moments, although I doubt most of us have ones where we are hitting people, but the tragic thing for Smith is that his worst moment happened on live TV and will never be forgotten.  It's a mistake he will never live down, unfortunately. 

 
It is also worth noting that Chris Rock's brother said today that P Diddy's comment about Rock and Smith making up backstage Sunday night was a lie and that Smith has still not reached out to his brother to personally apologize. 
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/chris-rock-addresses-being-slapped-by-will-smith-in-first-show-since-the-oscars-010623270.html

Prices for his shows there — one at 7:30 p.m. and one at 10 p.m. on three consecutive nights — had skyrocketed to more than $1,000 apiece, after the Oscars incident.

----

"So, how was your weekend?"

That was how Chris Rock opened his first comedy show since being slapped by Will Smith onstage during the Oscars, performing to a sold-out crowd Wednesday at the Wilbur Theatre in Boston. The audience gave Rock a standing ovation that lasted about five minutes, according to attendees.

Beyond his winking acknowledgment at the outset, Rock said that he is "still processing what happened," but eventually he will talk about "that s**t." Before the show, the venue manager said that Rock was "in a great mood."
I still can't believe Will Smith would have walked on stage and hit somebody, without some sort of prior arrangement.  Chris even called him King Richard as he approached, as if it was in character.  Maybe Will ad-libbed the slap?  Either way, Chris is "still processing what happened," which gives them time to get the story straight.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
It's not like Smith getting arrested and charged will suddenly make any delusional enough to think he's the good guy here realize that he's not.  They would just dig in more in making him the victim. 

And I don't think Will Smith is a bad guy. I just think he made a tremendous error in judgment and made a big mistake.  Before this week, I don't think I had ever heard anyone say they didn't like him.  Not saying everyone loved him, but he was one of those celebs that didn't seem dislikable to just about anyone, and now that is gone forever.  All because of 30 seconds where he lost his temper.  I think it is usually a mistake to judge someone by their worst moments, as we all have our bad moments, although I doubt most of us have ones where we are hitting people, but the tragic thing for Smith is that his worst moment happened on live TV and will never be forgotten.  It's a mistake he will never live down, unfortunately. 
You’re a forgiving man Ghost.  Ain’t nothing wrong with that. 👍

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top