roadkill1292
Footballguy
Barnwell follows up yesterday's piece with The Dumbest Day of the NFL Year. He sounds like he consulted with The_Man before writing his Kruger stuff.Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
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*** Official Baltimore Ravens 2012/13 SB Champs Thread *** (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Uruk-Hai
- Start date
Barnwell follows up yesterday's piece with The Dumbest Day of the NFL Year. He sounds like he consulted with The_Man before writing his Kruger stuff.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
And now Pollard. It's one of Simmons' running jokes that he's been one of the NFL's most influential players of the last six years.
The_Man
Footballguy
I just posted this over in the Ozzie Newsome thread.
There are only 8 guys from the 2008 roster (Harbaugh's first year) currently on the team.
How many of them can you name? I probably would have gotten 6 -- missing the last 2 on the hidden list below.
There are only 8 guys from the 2008 roster (Harbaugh's first year) currently on the team.
How many of them can you name? I probably would have gotten 6 -- missing the last 2 on the hidden list below.
Flacco
Rice
Yanda
Suggs
Ngata
Koch (punter)
Ayanbadejo
Jameel McClain
Rice
Yanda
Suggs
Ngata
Koch (punter)
Ayanbadejo
Jameel McClain
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I tried to guess in the other thread and came up with three. I need to start paying attention. :( Shaping up to be a tough year but mostly because of a tough schedule and being everybody else's Super Bowl in the early part of the season. There's still lots of talented people on the roster. I'll be happy if the team is tough, smart and disciplined and is better in December than it was in September. Then, regardless of whether they make the playoffs (again!), I'll feel good about the rebuilding/reloading year. Six years in a row would be pretty amazing.
The_Man
Footballguy
Writing is clearly on the wall for Ed Reed now. Add up all the Ravens moves and - other than refusing to grossly overpay for Ellerbe - they're pretty much about getting younger and faster. Hard to believe they would let go other guys who are getting old and slow and turn around to keep Ed.
Also, the combo of Reed (can't tackle) and Pollard (can't cover) was kind of perfect, even if it meant they had very limited flexibility and surprise in their schemes since everyone always know which Safety was Free and which was Strong. Can now look at getting a pair of interchangeable guys who can both cover and tackle. Without Pollard to hit everything in the box and cover up Reed's inability to tackle, I'm not sure who you effectively pair with him in the defensive backfield now.
I think he's gone. I can live with it. But Baltimore is going to riot tomorrow if/when Reed signs with the Texans.
Also, the combo of Reed (can't tackle) and Pollard (can't cover) was kind of perfect, even if it meant they had very limited flexibility and surprise in their schemes since everyone always know which Safety was Free and which was Strong. Can now look at getting a pair of interchangeable guys who can both cover and tackle. Without Pollard to hit everything in the box and cover up Reed's inability to tackle, I'm not sure who you effectively pair with him in the defensive backfield now.
I think he's gone. I can live with it. But Baltimore is going to riot tomorrow if/when Reed signs with the Texans.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I'm over 100 miles away from Charm City but could hear the wails of lamentation all the way over here.
I was a little stunned at how rapidly things happened over the last 48 hours, but I've come around. In doing some reading, I was shocked how little Ellerbe actually played. I bought into the "gotta keep Ellerbe!" hype, but not at that price. God bless & congrats to him for hitting paydirt, but no way the Ravens would get anywhere close to what Miami paid him. He's another in a long line of players the Ravens have gotten rich without actually paying them.
I, too, read the Grantland article roady cited. And it makes sense - just be patient in FA and the value will be there instead of throwing around piles of cash at 12:01 a.m. on Day One. Let the market set itself.
I was a little stunned at how rapidly things happened over the last 48 hours, but I've come around. In doing some reading, I was shocked how little Ellerbe actually played. I bought into the "gotta keep Ellerbe!" hype, but not at that price. God bless & congrats to him for hitting paydirt, but no way the Ravens would get anywhere close to what Miami paid him. He's another in a long line of players the Ravens have gotten rich without actually paying them.
I, too, read the Grantland article roady cited. And it makes sense - just be patient in FA and the value will be there instead of throwing around piles of cash at 12:01 a.m. on Day One. Let the market set itself.
The_Man
Footballguy
One of the things that always bugged me about the Ravens from the Billick days was that the inmates kind of ran the asylum. With Ray and Shannon Sharpe and Rod Woodson and even JO, Billick deferred to the players - and it worked in 2000 when they won the Super Bowl. But then it didn't work.
In retrospect, the Ravens grossly underachieved under Billick. After the 2000 Super Bowl, they won a Wild Card game in 2001, and then never won another playoff game until Harbaugh arrived in 2008. That's kind of shocking and I attribute a lot of it to the team's lack of discipline and focus that stemmed from not having a strong coach.
Harbaugh came in and brought a lot of structure and discipline. And a lot of the old-timers didn't really like it. So there was an uneasy set-up where Harbaugh kind of ran things, but Ray and Ed Reed kind of ran things too. Remember the "mutiny" this season when players refused to practice in pads during the bye week?
I think that Ray's departure set the stage to clear out the last of the guys who questioned Harbarugh's authority and team concept. I posted above the 8 guys who have been here since Harbaugh arrived. But 4 of them (include Flacco and Rice) arrived in 2008 with Harbaugh and never played in the Billick regime. Once Reed is gone, there will be just 4 guys on the roster who ever had a Ravens coach other than Harbaugh - Suggs, Ngata, Yanda, and Koch. And from what I've heard, the guys that have been with Harbaugh during their entire careers really like him. The trouble came from guys dating to Billick who were used to running the show themselves.
From what I've heard, locker room stuff is also behind Boldin and Pollard getting let go. And it makes me realize that - despite talk to the contrary around town - there's no way they're going to bring McKinnie back.
It's Harbaugh's team now, without question. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
In retrospect, the Ravens grossly underachieved under Billick. After the 2000 Super Bowl, they won a Wild Card game in 2001, and then never won another playoff game until Harbaugh arrived in 2008. That's kind of shocking and I attribute a lot of it to the team's lack of discipline and focus that stemmed from not having a strong coach.
Harbaugh came in and brought a lot of structure and discipline. And a lot of the old-timers didn't really like it. So there was an uneasy set-up where Harbaugh kind of ran things, but Ray and Ed Reed kind of ran things too. Remember the "mutiny" this season when players refused to practice in pads during the bye week?
I think that Ray's departure set the stage to clear out the last of the guys who questioned Harbarugh's authority and team concept. I posted above the 8 guys who have been here since Harbaugh arrived. But 4 of them (include Flacco and Rice) arrived in 2008 with Harbaugh and never played in the Billick regime. Once Reed is gone, there will be just 4 guys on the roster who ever had a Ravens coach other than Harbaugh - Suggs, Ngata, Yanda, and Koch. And from what I've heard, the guys that have been with Harbaugh during their entire careers really like him. The trouble came from guys dating to Billick who were used to running the show themselves.
From what I've heard, locker room stuff is also behind Boldin and Pollard getting let go. And it makes me realize that - despite talk to the contrary around town - there's no way they're going to bring McKinnie back.
It's Harbaugh's team now, without question. It will be interesting to see how it plays out.
The_Man
Footballguy
Here are some of my thoughts while watching Ed Reed during the recent Super Bowl season:
of the season.Ed Reed is probably my favorite Raven of all time. He had a great post-season, playing his best football of the year, because he respected Manning and Brady enough to actually play his assignment instead of free-lancing all over the field and try for INTs.
The greatest moment in the NFL to me is watching Ed Reed pick off a pass and then run it back, and I might go to his HOF induction. That being said, he can't tackle at all any more, he can't cover nearly as much ground, and the Ravens will probably play better defense next year without him. But Baltimore is going to go insane the moment he strikes a deal with another team.
And this was his
of the season.Ed Reed is probably my favorite Raven of all time. He had a great post-season, playing his best football of the year, because he respected Manning and Brady enough to actually play his assignment instead of free-lancing all over the field and try for INTs.
The greatest moment in the NFL to me is watching Ed Reed pick off a pass and then run it back, and I might go to his HOF induction. That being said, he can't tackle at all any more, he can't cover nearly as much ground, and the Ravens will probably play better defense next year without him. But Baltimore is going to go insane the moment he strikes a deal with another team.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Ed Reed doesn't seem to be overwhelmed by Houston's offer, despite the nice private plane ride. I'm sensing a pattern here.
The_Man
Footballguy
DRAMA! Looks like there's an irresolvable conflict between the Orioles - scheduled to be home on Thursday, Sept. 5 - and the Ravens, who want to host the NFL season kickoff that night.
You know when Angelos is involved, he's not going to give in. Looking forward to the Ravens opening the season on the road as Super Bowl champs.
You know when Angelos is involved, he's not going to give in. Looking forward to the Ravens opening the season on the road as Super Bowl champs.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
How much do Canty and Spears have left in their tanks? On the surface, they seem like very workmanlike and affordable pieces. I think the defensive line could be somewhat improved at stopping the run.
So if the Dline and corners are the unit's strengths, does Ozzie go for youth and speed via the draft at ILBs and safeties, content to live with the growing pains while making them more athletic overall? 'Cuz I could live with that.
So if the Dline and corners are the unit's strengths, does Ozzie go for youth and speed via the draft at ILBs and safeties, content to live with the growing pains while making them more athletic overall? 'Cuz I could live with that.
collective
Footballguy
Move the Ravens game to Wednesday night. They did it last year.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Faust
MVP
Urak-Hai, The_Man, Roadkill, James Daulton, et al., if you'll allow me I'll take this one. For the third, fourth and fifth time in this thread, the defense of the Super Bowl champion Ravens was an inferior to average unit that was old, slow, and often out of position. Losing the "key" parts to that unit is not as distressing as the national media and some others are making it out to be. I do like that Ozzie and gang are looking at turning the roster sooner rather than later and I'm sure the defense will take time to gel but so far I like what the front office is doing for the most part. Huff and Dumervile would be a nice gets but with our cap issues it is understandable if that doesn't happen.
As a fan I am ready to wait the shakeup out until training camp and then reevaluate.
James Daulton
Footballguy
If that list instead included:Ngata
Suggs
KO
Yanda
T Smith
Pitta
etc
I'd be worried. There are only two players out of that group that concern me at all, Boldin and Ellerbe. Even Ellerbe doesn't bother me that much since I think he shined because he was our only backer with speed. We've upgraded our d-line this offseason, Webb is due back to bolster the secondary. I believe they'll bring in a serviceable veteran backer and safety, then draft for speed with their 12 picks. I also think we'll pick up a vetern reciever. If we don't win the Superbowl next year (which I believe we'll all think is possible come September), assuming Ozzie drafts well, the blueprint to another one should be just around the corner. The mental impact to the team of the retirement of Ray Lewis is also a wild card.
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The_Man
Footballguy
I would have been shocked if they had resigned Reed. All their moves - especially defensively - have so clearly been about getting faster and more physical. Keeping Reed would have been a total contradiction. I think maybe they never were really interested, but helped put a good face on the fact that they were just letting him walk.
All that talk about how much Belichick loves Reed - the Pats never even gave him a sniff, nor did his best friend Pagano in Indy. He just doesn't have much left. And I'll be shocked if they resign McKinnie. That would also contradict the moves they've made regarding both youth and - equally important - attitude.
Along those lines, if you're shopping today for a jersey to replace your #20, I wouldn't spend too much on a #55 because you're likely to be shopping to replace it a year from now.
All that talk about how much Belichick loves Reed - the Pats never even gave him a sniff, nor did his best friend Pagano in Indy. He just doesn't have much left. And I'll be shocked if they resign McKinnie. That would also contradict the moves they've made regarding both youth and - equally important - attitude.
Along those lines, if you're shopping today for a jersey to replace your #20, I wouldn't spend too much on a #55 because you're likely to be shopping to replace it a year from now.
James Daulton
Footballguy
Ozzie better hit it big in the draft this year...
Faust
MVP
While I don't disagree that some of the losses and roster turnover is being overblown, it is clear that this was the team that had the chemistry and the timing that came together to win the Super Bowl, and a significant part of that is now gone. It will be interesting to see if the new pieces that will be added to replace those players can capture the same "lightning in a bottle" over the next few years.
The_Man
Footballguy
And Ravens are opening on the road! I don't really care, but this is a custom-made situation for Baltimorons to freak out over.
The NFL is out to screw us! Every other Super Bowl champ hosts the season-opener, but we don't!
Angelos is such a greedy jerk! He's jealous of the Ravens and screwed them over! He hates the fans!
I'm thinking it's at Denver. Maybe Pittsburgh or Chicago, doubt it's Houston.
The NFL is out to screw us! Every other Super Bowl champ hosts the season-opener, but we don't!
Angelos is such a greedy jerk! He's jealous of the Ravens and screwed them over! He hates the fans!
I'm thinking it's at Denver. Maybe Pittsburgh or Chicago, doubt it's Houston.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
Yes, plenty around here will go ape####. Whole businesses turn purple around here in January, I wonder why we don't have more Ratbird posters at FBGs? It's not like nobody around here plays fantasy football, either.
The_Man
Footballguy
To be fair, many of the biggest Ravens fans I know either don't have internet access or can't read and write.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Come to Ford Field! at least you know you will win the game!
collective
Footballguy
Great for Major League Baseball!'The_Man said:
Texans fan here. Just wanted to say that the baseball game should've been the one to reschedule. Play it during the day, make a doubleheader, anything. The Champs should have their triuphant opening AT HOME so that their fans, friends and family can all enjoy the super bowl win one more time. Having the Ravens open on the road is just wrong. I respect Ozzie and the great, underrated work he does. I can only hope my Texans establish a long run of success with SBs sprinkled in like the Ravens franchise has done. Just wanted to chime in. Screw the O's game!'The_Man said:
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I hope this doesn't get me thrown out of this thread -- this attitude certainly makes me an unpopular poster in other SP threads -- but I kinda like that MLB and the Orioles stuck to their guns. The NFL doesn't have to win all the time.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
I'm with you, roady.The Os & Sox are both playing out of town the night before. I don't think it's fair to ask them to play a day game the next day. I heard Van Pelt say the other day (imagining Selig saying): "Ok, Roger. What are you offering us?".
While I personally think it's silly not to play on Rosh Hoshannah - seen plenty of games on religious holidays in my lifetime - ok. How about playing the Ravens game Friday or Saturday night? That gives the Orioles more leeway in adjusting game times since both teams are in town already. I know the NFL promises not to infringe on college ball, but it's happened before.
I've also picked up on some of roady's anarchism - I think it would be awesome to have both games played at the same time just to see the fluster-cluck Russell St would be.
The_Man
Footballguy
So the Ravens basically traded Kruger for Dumervil, a 4th round pick in next year's draft (compensatory pick for Kruger) and $5 Million (since Kruger's $40M deal is $5M more than Dumervil's).
I think that's a pretty good trade.
D Line now has Dumervil, Suggs, Ngata, Canty, Spears, Arthur Jones and hopefully McPhee coming back healthy. Cody better show up with his fat ### in shape or he might be a training camp cut.
I think that's a pretty good trade.
D Line now has Dumervil, Suggs, Ngata, Canty, Spears, Arthur Jones and hopefully McPhee coming back healthy. Cody better show up with his fat ### in shape or he might be a training camp cut.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I have big hopes for Upshaw becoming an important contributor somewhere behind that line.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Not exactly sure how compensatory picks are given but wouldn't the acquisition of Dumervil pretty much offset the loss of Kruger?
The_Man
Footballguy
My understanding - which could be wrong, but I think is right - is that Dumervil doeesn't count as an Unrestricted Free Agent for comp purposes, because he was cut by the Broncos. Comp picks only apply when a guy is a UFA because his contract expires, not when he's cut.
Uruk-Hai
Footballguy
Me too. All of a sudden, the front 7 doesn't look too bad; just need another ILB and OzCosta seems to find them whenever they want to.I'm with T_M on Cody. Every down lineman you named is at least as good as he is.
James Daulton
Footballguy
The front 7 looked much better than last year even before Doom came to town. Now they have a chance to be really good. How good they are contingent on a healthy Ngata/Suggs, but I'm confident that their run D will be significantly improved over last year. Pass rush should be significantly upgraded too with a healthy Suggs.
correct, T_Mwhen a player is under contract but has parted ways w/the team for what ever reason, there is no comp pick..
Dooms had a contract&Denver cut him
the Ravens gets picks for Kruggs, Ellerbee, CWilliams, EReed (these players were NOT under contract, they were FA's)
they DO NOT get a comp pick for Pollard(cut), and obviously Q was under contract but traded--had they cut him and not traded him to SF, same situation as Dumervil...no comp pick
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3 thumbs up!
the NFL could have gone to NBC and worked something out for Wed eve (like last yr, when game was moved to Wed for DemNatConv)Fri or Sat are not options, per agreements w/college&HS football
the O's had offered to move up to 4:00, but the Ravens balked as the memories of "The Parade" linger---they grossly underestimated the size of the crowd for that, and a 'party-type' atmosphere downtown the day of the opener for the Ravens w/a band and all the fanfare from NBC et all would make it impossible to play a baseball game any time that day (potential rain delay, extra innings, etc make it impossible to try to play both)
both O's and Sox balked @moving to a Sat doubler header, as both teams expect to "be in the hunt" and the move would screw up pitching rotations, C's rest and a couple other things I haven't thought of
the baseball schedules got to the NFL teams that share complex space before released as "official", and it is up to the NFL team to ask for any changes before MLB releases them
...you can bet your a-$$ the O's will a)be OFF or b)AWAY the Thurs after Labor Day moving forward!!
oh, as for the Ravens...just a hunch, but look for the NFL to 'offer' the Ravens their choice of a couple different teams to go to for the opener that Thurs---my guess, Pitts--Den--Mia (Hous&NE play @Balt)
I'm going w/the longshot here and guess we go to Miami to start...w/the players they've added, my guess is they'll be an option and Harbs would be all over that one, if offered
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The_Man
Footballguy
Chargers just cut Jared Gaither to the tune of a $6 million cap hit. Ouch.
Remember when it was a disaster to let him get away, because Oher couldn't play LT and the Ravens had nobody else?
I'm obviously a Ravens fan, but the thing that might impress me most about their operation is their own self-scouting. They know if a guy is a difference-maker and - more important - if he isn't. Maybe they've let one or two guys get away too early (Antwan Barnes) but far more often is they've let them go at the exactly right time and have hardly ever kept a guy around too long.
Remember when it was a disaster to let him get away, because Oher couldn't play LT and the Ravens had nobody else?
I'm obviously a Ravens fan, but the thing that might impress me most about their operation is their own self-scouting. They know if a guy is a difference-maker and - more important - if he isn't. Maybe they've let one or two guys get away too early (Antwan Barnes) but far more often is they've let them go at the exactly right time and have hardly ever kept a guy around too long.
bicycle_seat_sniffer
Smells like chicken
Michael Huff signs Wed Mar 27, 12:27 PM
The Baltimore Ravens signed free-agent FS Michael Huff (Raiders) to a three-year deal
The Baltimore Ravens signed free-agent FS Michael Huff (Raiders) to a three-year deal
The_Man
Footballguy
Love this signing.
I think this probably concludes the major Free Agent shopping for the Ravens, except maybe at Offensive Tackle. I still think there's no way they bring McKinnie back (hopefully I'm wrong) which means they'll either wait for a late cut or try to reshuffle things again with Oher and Osemele and the other guys on the roster.
Maybe they'll also look to shake free a veteran possession WR late in the summer.
Now I expect them to really focus on Safety and ILB with their draft picks, maybe also add in a Tight End. I love the fact that those are all positions that tend to be under-drafted and they might snag an excellent player, even picking last every round.
If Suggs is remotely healthy, and Webb can make it through an entire season, I expect the 2013 defense to be significantly better than 2012. I'm still sorry they had to lose Boldin to make these other deals work, and will continue to fret about Left Tackle. But I really, really like the approach - that even though they won the Super Bowl, they're not letting that stop them from aggressively trying to improve the team.
I think this probably concludes the major Free Agent shopping for the Ravens, except maybe at Offensive Tackle. I still think there's no way they bring McKinnie back (hopefully I'm wrong) which means they'll either wait for a late cut or try to reshuffle things again with Oher and Osemele and the other guys on the roster.
Maybe they'll also look to shake free a veteran possession WR late in the summer.
Now I expect them to really focus on Safety and ILB with their draft picks, maybe also add in a Tight End. I love the fact that those are all positions that tend to be under-drafted and they might snag an excellent player, even picking last every round.
If Suggs is remotely healthy, and Webb can make it through an entire season, I expect the 2013 defense to be significantly better than 2012. I'm still sorry they had to lose Boldin to make these other deals work, and will continue to fret about Left Tackle. But I really, really like the approach - that even though they won the Super Bowl, they're not letting that stop them from aggressively trying to improve the team.
roadkill1292
Footballguy
I'm still worried about replacing Birk. Today's NFL center gets called on to do so damn much.
But I like all four free agent signings on the defensive side. They can certainly patch together something as good as last year's mess (which admittedly got better as the season went on, a tribute to the work of Dean Pees, I think).
But I like all four free agent signings on the defensive side. They can certainly patch together something as good as last year's mess (which admittedly got better as the season went on, a tribute to the work of Dean Pees, I think).
Faust
MVP
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158013/article/baltimore-ravens-absent-as-orioles-honor-them
Baltimore Ravens absent as Orioles honor them
Baltimore Ravens absent as Orioles honor them
Faust
MVP
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000158011/article/ravens-pr-john-harbaugh-wanted-ed-reed-back
Ravens PR: John Harbaugh wanted Ed Reed back
By Kareem Copeland
Around the League Writer
Ravens PR: John Harbaugh wanted Ed Reed back
By Kareem Copeland
Around the League Writer
Faust
MVP
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...ando-mcclain-might-sign-with-baltimore-ravens
Rolando McClain might sign with Baltimore Ravens
Rolando McClain might sign with Baltimore Ravens
Faust
MVP
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap10...do-mcclain-baltimore-ravens-agree-on-contract
Rolando McClain, Baltimore Ravens agree on contract
The_Man
Footballguy
I like the McClain signing - though it's kind of a Dan Duquette move more than an Ozzie move: talented young retread with no downside and a lot of upside. If he shows up and is a goof, you just cut him and have lost nothing. If he can regain the form - and he's only 23 - that made him a top 10 pick, then you've gotten something for nothing.
I think the Ravens have now gotten Huff, Spears, Canty, and McClain for less than the Browns are giving Kruger annually.
That's one area where the Ravens are the opposite of the Orioles. The Orioles - at least until this year - have had to grossly overpay to get free agents to even think about coming. Whereas it seems that veterans are lining up to play for the Ravens for minimal deals. It's nice to be the World Champs, have the best practice facility in the league, and have a reputation for being a player-centered, fair and professional organization. Like I said, the opposite of the Orioles.
I think the Ravens have now gotten Huff, Spears, Canty, and McClain for less than the Browns are giving Kruger annually.
That's one area where the Ravens are the opposite of the Orioles. The Orioles - at least until this year - have had to grossly overpay to get free agents to even think about coming. Whereas it seems that veterans are lining up to play for the Ravens for minimal deals. It's nice to be the World Champs, have the best practice facility in the league, and have a reputation for being a player-centered, fair and professional organization. Like I said, the opposite of the Orioles.
