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[Gopher State]

March 31, 2008

MI, NJ, WA Poll Roundup

Posted by KYLE TRYGSTAD

New Rasmussen polls in Michigan, New Jersey and Washington show McCain doing quite well. In NJ and MI, which have both voted Democratic in the last four presidential elections, McCain leads both Dems, though by statistically insignificant margins. Also, McCain leads Clinton in WA, which hasn't voted GOP since 1984.

Michigan

Clinton 42 - McCain 45

Obama 42 - McCain 43

New Jersey

Clinton 42 - McCain 45

Obama 45 - McCain 46

Washington

Clinton 43 - McCain 46

Obama 48 - McCain 43

 

[adonis]

March 31, 2008MI, NJ, WA Poll RoundupPosted by KYLE TRYGSTAD New Rasmussen polls in Michigan, New Jersey and Washington show McCain doing quite well. In NJ and MI, which have both voted Democratic in the last four presidential elections, McCain leads both Dems, though by statistically insignificant margins. Also, McCain leads Clinton in WA, which hasn't voted GOP since 1984.MichiganClinton 42 - McCain 45 Obama 42 - McCain 43New JerseyClinton 42 - McCain 45Obama 45 - McCain 46WashingtonClinton 43 - McCain 46Obama 48 - McCain 43

Pretty easy to be doing well when you're virtually unopposed.

 

[Sammy3469]

March 31, 2008MI, NJ, WA Poll RoundupPosted by KYLE TRYGSTAD New Rasmussen polls in Michigan, New Jersey and Washington show McCain doing quite well. In NJ and MI, which have both voted Democratic in the last four presidential elections, McCain leads both Dems, though by statistically insignificant margins. Also, McCain leads Clinton in WA, which hasn't voted GOP since 1984.MichiganClinton 42 - McCain 45 Obama 42 - McCain 43New JerseyClinton 42 - McCain 45Obama 45 - McCain 46WashingtonClinton 43 - McCain 46Obama 48 - McCain 43

Pretty easy to be doing well when you're virtually unopposed.

Chuck Todd had another good piece of wisdom over the weekend which echos you're point...he's not doing well enough now to have any confidence he'll hold up in the general when its one v one (ie he needs to run up his lead now, which he's really not doing in any way).Plus, I don't believe those NJ numbers for a second. No one ever polls that state correctly.

 

[NorvilleBarnes]

March 31, 2008MI, NJ, WA Poll RoundupPosted by KYLE TRYGSTAD New Rasmussen polls in Michigan, New Jersey and Washington show McCain doing quite well. In NJ and MI, which have both voted Democratic in the last four presidential elections, McCain leads both Dems, though by statistically insignificant margins. Also, McCain leads Clinton in WA, which hasn't voted GOP since 1984.MichiganClinton 42 - McCain 45 Obama 42 - McCain 43New JerseyClinton 42 - McCain 45Obama 45 - McCain 46WashingtonClinton 43 - McCain 46Obama 48 - McCain 43

Bad news for McCain. During this season he should be WAY above both Dems. To be within the margin of error during the most bitter mudslinging among the two Dems does not bode well for him at all.

 

[Sweet J]

very interesting article

Amid all the punditry and intricate television graphics showing delegate counts and precinct voting trends, almost no one has bothered to look at the overwhelming dynamic that deals with race. Specifically, while Barack Obama has won states with both almost no black population and and very large black populations, he has had trouble winning states with a modestly sized black populations. How pronounced is this trend? I answer that question in a new In These Times investigation about what I call the Race Chasm - a trend that has been almost completely missed by the media. You can find the piece here, or at the backup location here (In These Times servers crashed from traffic to the piece this morning). This chasm is the key pillar of Hillary Clinton's much-vaunted "firewall."

As you can see from the key graph included with the piece, the states Hillary Clinton has won have been mostly those with black populations above 6 percent and below 17 percent of the states' population. In all, 75 percent of Clinton states have this demography. Obama has been only able to eke out three victories in these Race Chasm states.

Why is this trend so pronounced? There's no scientific answer to that question, but as I say in the In These Times piece, it probably has something to do with the state of black-white racial politics.

In super-white states, black-white racial politics barely exists, and therefore racism or subtle race-coded messages are not all that devastating a weapon against a black candidate - especially in a Democratic primary. In states with large black populations, black-white politics is very intense, but in a Democratic primary, the black vote can offset a racially motivated white vote. But in the states in between, black-white politics is equally as intense, but the black population is not big enough to offset a racially motivated white vote.

 

[Chachi]

Hilarious.

Feeling more and more like staying home...

 

[H Jass]

Hilarious.

 

[Chachi]

Hilarious.

When people don't consider booing Sheila Jackson Lee in Texas childish for not supporting their candidate, it is gonna make it really hard for me to suck it up and vote for those peoples candidate that they are in love with, it will be very difficult for me to make those people happy. If you want to boo the Republicans I am right there with you, if you want to boo Sheila Jackson Lee you're on your own.

 

[The Juggernaut]

Hilarious.

Yep. No Obama = we need gridlock.

 

[Chachi]

Hilarious.

It's not crying, but you're entitled to your opinion.

 

[Sweet J]

Hilarious.

I am not aware of the situation you are talking about, but I agree with you that booing someone at an event is pretty low-class.

 

[bigbottom]

Hilarious.

Agreed, but I'll make an exception for Sheila Jackson Lee.

 

[All Your Base Are Belong To Us]

Hilarious.

Pathetic. Seriously.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I have received two separate phone calls from Team Obama. One was a general call about being a volunteer and another was about being an "on-site" attorney to make sure there are no voting shenanigans going on etc.

Have any of you guys done either of these things? What is involved? It would be for the PA primary. I havent returned their calls yet, but plan to tonight and wanted some FFA Obama HQ info first.

 

[DrJ]

Donate using the link in the OP or via any of the links below to help Obama get as much support by the filing deadline as he can get.If you haven't donated in a while, this is a great opportunity to step up and make a difference as his fund raising totals will be reported for the weeks to come leading up to PA. The higher the numbers the more compelling his case is, especially if he can eclipse Hillary's.

Donate? HA! As if the two of the most corrupt organizations in America really need my money.

 

[Jeremy]

Hilarious.

In a few months we're going to be choosing the person who is going to be the POTUS for at least the next 4 years. That's a pretty big deal. If people are staying home because of sour grapes or because they don't like "fans" of one the participants, well...this country gets what it deserves. This isn't a game. This is real life, important stuff.

 

[commisholio]

Donate using the link in the OP or via any of the links below to help Obama get as much support by the filing deadline as he can get.If you haven't donated in a while, this is a great opportunity to step up and make a difference as his fund raising totals will be reported for the weeks to come leading up to PA. The higher the numbers the more compelling his case is, especially if he can eclipse Hillary's.

Donate? HA! As if the two of the most corrupt organizations in America really need my money.

Donated $50 today in honor of Dr J. Anyone else?

 

[bigbottom]

Donate using the link in the OP or via any of the links below to help Obama get as much support by the filing deadline as he can get.If you haven't donated in a while, this is a great opportunity to step up and make a difference as his fund raising totals will be reported for the weeks to come leading up to PA. The higher the numbers the more compelling his case is, especially if he can eclipse Hillary's.

Donate? HA! As if the two of the most corrupt organizations in America really need my money.

Donated $50 today in honor of Dr J. Anyone else?

I donated again this morning. Wanted to get it in for the March totals.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

Donate using the link in the OP or via any of the links below to help Obama get as much support by the filing deadline as he can get.If you haven't donated in a while, this is a great opportunity to step up and make a difference as his fund raising totals will be reported for the weeks to come leading up to PA. The higher the numbers the more compelling his case is, especially if he can eclipse Hillary's.

Donate? HA! As if the two of the most corrupt organizations in America really need my money.

Donated $50 today in honor of Dr J. Anyone else?

I donated again this morning. Wanted to get it in for the March totals.

Just donated. In the "share your story" section, i said - "This donation is on the behalf of Dr J, a fervent supporter from the FBG website." YWIA

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

Feeling more and more like staying home...

Chachi - There are examples like the one you point out on every side during a heated political race. What about the HRC supporter who had to be removed from an Obama event...by other HRC supporters? How about the ultra right wing nuts like BGPaiMei who throw all kinds of blatantly false, Rovian nonsense onto boards like this one. If you are that easily offended by some of the most mild political debates and discussions, then maybe you just need to put your fingers in your ears and vote Dem like you said you always do.Also, i doubt anyone put a gun to your head and forced you to check out a pro-Obama thread. Control the info you want to see/hear if you cannot filter what is important to you

 

[Chadstroma]

Let me throw something out there.... I know there is almost 0 chance of this but it actually might be the 'shark' move by Obama.

The situation currently is that the Democratic party is split. Although you would not know it from those on this board, the polling numbers show that exactly the same amount of people that want Clinton to bow out are equalled by those that want Obama to. Regardless of what some might want everyone to think- the Democratic nominee is not a lock to win the general.

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party. Clinton would move on to the general and lose. McCain would be handed a Presidency that without doubt, will be one of the toughest since FDR's. Even if he navigates it well Obama would be well positioned to be the Democratic nominee to unseat him. Another 4 years of service in the Senate would dispel the 'inexperience' and 'lack of accomplishment' arguments that dog him now. He could grow and build his organization in the meantime. He would basically be waiting either 4 or 8 years to be an almost lock on being elected where as now... he is a little better than a 50/50 chance.

 

[bigbottom]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

 

[saintfool]

Let me throw something out there.... I know there is almost 0 chance of this but it actually might be the 'shark' move by Obama. The situation currently is that the Democratic party is split. Although you would not know it from those on this board, the polling numbers show that exactly the same amount of people that want Clinton to bow out are equalled by those that want Obama to. Regardless of what some might want everyone to think- the Democratic nominee is not a lock to win the general. What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party. Clinton would move on to the general and lose. McCain would be handed a Presidency that without doubt, will be one of the toughest since FDR's. Even if he navigates it well Obama would be well positioned to be the Democratic nominee to unseat him. Another 4 years of service in the Senate would dispel the 'inexperience' and 'lack of accomplishment' arguments that dog him now. He could grow and build his organization in the meantime. He would basically be waiting either 4 or 8 years to be an almost lock on being elected where as now... he is a little better than a 50/50 chance.

how'd that work out for Al Gore?

 

[Yankee23Fan]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

I'd be ok if they both dropped out. It would really show class and dignity. They could have a joint press conference. Something along the lines of, "we realize that our disagreements might hurt our party and we don't want that. So we are both dropping out so that we may continue this debate outside of the election to build a stronger party for the future without playing games with our electoral process."I think that will really really work and make them both look really really good.

 

[Chadstroma]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic. It would increase his cult of personality in a way that would make JFK cringe out of jealousy. It would cement his viewing as a savior by his supporters and he would gain the ultimate "I only want the Presidency because others want me to be and I will begrudgingly do the job for the good of others and not myself" that all candidates starting with Washington have strived for but most have failed. It would be a brilliant political move. But again, I think there is a much better chance of a Ron Paul Presidency than there is of this happening.

 

[bigbottom]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

I'd be ok if they both dropped out. It would really show class and dignity. They could have a joint press conference. Something along the lines of, "we realize that our disagreements might hurt our party and we don't want that. So we are both dropping out so that we may continue this debate outside of the election to build a stronger party for the future without playing games with our electoral process."I think that will really really work and make them both look really really good.

I think you may be on to something here.

 

[malice]

Let me throw something out there.... I know there is almost 0 chance of this but it actually might be the 'shark' move by Obama. The situation currently is that the Democratic party is split. Although you would not know it from those on this board, the polling numbers show that exactly the same amount of people that want Clinton to bow out are equalled by those that want Obama to. Regardless of what some might want everyone to think- the Democratic nominee is not a lock to win the general. What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party. Clinton would move on to the general and lose. McCain would be handed a Presidency that without doubt, will be one of the toughest since FDR's. Even if he navigates it well Obama would be well positioned to be the Democratic nominee to unseat him. Another 4 years of service in the Senate would dispel the 'inexperience' and 'lack of accomplishment' arguments that dog him now. He could grow and build his organization in the meantime. He would basically be waiting either 4 or 8 years to be an almost lock on being elected where as now... he is a little better than a 50/50 chance.

The problem is that inexperience and his resume isn't his #1 problem. It's a long, drawn out struggle between two groups that have never been in this position to represent a monumental change in the oval office. If Clinton fails to win this nomination, women think they won't get another candidate with this chance for years. Same goes for Obama and African-Americans. The polls have shown that it really isn't a tug of war between both candidates taking and giving from each other's support base; it's Obama having to chip away what he can get based on his strengths.The best thing he could do right now is to use his race speech as a launchpoint for meeting Clinton supporters head-on. Focus on areas that wouldn't even consider an African-American on election day. Instead of rallies at campuses, meet with more middle-aged or elderly voters. Maybe if he even suggested that he's open to a strong female presence somewhere in his cabinet- that doesn't necessarily have to be Hillary- women would at least understand it isn't Hillary or bust.

 

[bigbottom]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

 

[Chadstroma]

Let me throw something out there.... I know there is almost 0 chance of this but it actually might be the 'shark' move by Obama. The situation currently is that the Democratic party is split. Although you would not know it from those on this board, the polling numbers show that exactly the same amount of people that want Clinton to bow out are equalled by those that want Obama to. Regardless of what some might want everyone to think- the Democratic nominee is not a lock to win the general. What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party. Clinton would move on to the general and lose. McCain would be handed a Presidency that without doubt, will be one of the toughest since FDR's. Even if he navigates it well Obama would be well positioned to be the Democratic nominee to unseat him. Another 4 years of service in the Senate would dispel the 'inexperience' and 'lack of accomplishment' arguments that dog him now. He could grow and build his organization in the meantime. He would basically be waiting either 4 or 8 years to be an almost lock on being elected where as now... he is a little better than a 50/50 chance.

how'd that work out for Al Gore?

Take Al Gore and amplify it by about a 100 times and you would have the effect if Obama did this. Obama certainly has the personality to make the most of it in ways that Gore could never. Plus, the ultimate drama of it all would eclipse Gore's simply not running in '04. Gore went from being the guy that barely got beat by Bush and was 'the best we had at the time' to being many within the parties ultimate wet dream candidate. Again, Obama doing this would just catapult him to ultra guber poltical guru status.

 

[Chadstroma]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

Of course he would position himself as doing it for the good of the party and campaign for Clinton. The chances are, she would lose. But that would just catapult his star into the stratosphere. Do you really think all that love him now would turn on him if he did this? No, they would love him even more for being so against the political grain. He would gain respect and future support from those in the party who are backing Clinton. The roll of the dice here is that McCain does not do exceptionally well and in that time frame a GOP future nominee that is also a 'rock star' does not surface. Meanwhile, keeping himself clean and out of scandal or any big mistakes. That is a calculated risk.

 

[bigbottom]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

Of course he would position himself as doing it for the good of the party and campaign for Clinton. The chances are, she would lose. But that would just catapult his star into the stratosphere.

I can't tell if you're being serious or not. But in case you are, I'll just say that I totally disagree with you. I along with many democrats think that HRC would surely lose if she were the nominee, but that Obama has decent shot to win the general. If he dropped out, and she went on to lose, many, many democrats would view his dropping out as the reason that another Republican is in the White House. Far from being a sacrifice for the good of the party, it would be viewed as a sacrifice that delivered defeat to the Democrats.

Do you really think all that love him now would turn on him if he did this? No, they would love him even more for being so against the political grain. He would gain respect and future support from those in the party who are backing Clinton.

Not all, but a whole lot of folks would turn on him. I know I would be pissed off if he dropped out at this point "for the good of the party." I've donated a crapload of money to his campaign. I've expended a lot of time an effort caucusing for him and attending fundraisers. He has the nomination all but sewn up. If he bailed now and delivered the nomination to HRC who didn't earn it, and then she went on to lose to McCain, I'd be pissed as hell at him.

The roll of the dice here is that McCain does not do exceptionally well and in that time frame a GOP future nominee that is also a 'rock star' does not surface. Meanwhile, keeping himself clean and out of scandal or any big mistakes. That is a calculated risk.

If Obama were to drop out now in a shrewd attempt to "roll the dice" that McCain will do a crappy job as president and thus increase Obama's chances to win in 2012 or 2016, then Obama isn't the man I thought he was.

 

[adonis]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

Of course he would position himself as doing it for the good of the party and campaign for Clinton. The chances are, she would lose. But that would just catapult his star into the stratosphere. Do you really think all that love him now would turn on him if he did this? No, they would love him even more for being so against the political grain. He would gain respect and future support from those in the party who are backing Clinton. The roll of the dice here is that McCain does not do exceptionally well and in that time frame a GOP future nominee that is also a 'rock star' does not surface. Meanwhile, keeping himself clean and out of scandal or any big mistakes. That is a calculated risk.

Obama has a better shot currently than anyone in the race of winning the general election.He's odds favorite to be the nominee, and he's odds favorite to win vs McCain. (last time i looked at least).There's no reason for the leader in odds to back out. None. It'd be foolish.

 

[All Your Base Are Belong To Us]

Fitty Flips

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

He didn't say it was for the good of the Democratic party. Just for the good of the party. I can only assume he means the Republican party.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

Do you really think all that love him now would turn on him if he did this?

Absolutely. Why would any Democrats continue to like him when he acts for the good of the Republican party?I'm supporting Obama right now. If he drops out to let Hillary in, I'll never support anyone named "Hussein" ever again -- and I really mean it this time.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

I see that 6 weeks between Oh/Tx and PA is wayyyy too long. Wonder what the next bizarre rumor or wild speculation will be

 

[Chadstroma]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

He didn't say it was for the good of the Democratic party. Just for the good of the party. I can only assume he means the Republican party.

The next 4 years will be the toughest any administration will have to face since FDR. If I wanted the 'best' for the Republican party, I would be supporting Obama.

 

[BuddyKnuckles]

Do you really think all that love him now would turn on him if he did this?

Absolutely. Why would any Democrats continue to like him when he acts for the good of the Republican party?I'm supporting Obama right now. If he drops out to let Hillary in, I'll never support anyone named "Hussein" ever again -- and I really mean it this time.

#1 on my 2004 list of things i never thought i would hear, or agree with

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

He didn't say it was for the good of the Democratic party. Just for the good of the party. I can only assume he means the Republican party.

The next 4 years will be the toughest any administration will have to face since FDR. If I wanted the 'best' for the Republican party, I would be supporting Obama.

This is like purposely losing in week one of FF in order to get a better waiver position. It's a bad idea.

 

[adonis]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

He didn't say it was for the good of the Democratic party. Just for the good of the party. I can only assume he means the Republican party.

The next 4 years will be the toughest any administration will have to face since FDR. If I wanted the 'best' for the Republican party, I would be supporting Obama.

This is like purposely losing in week one of FF in order to get a better waiver position. It's a bad idea.

Or having the first pick overall in a redraft and drafting only injured players so you'll have a high draft position next year.

 

[Pooch]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

He didn't say it was for the good of the Democratic party. Just for the good of the party. I can only assume he means the Republican party.

The next 4 years will be the toughest any administration will have to face since FDR. If I wanted the 'best' for the Republican party, I would be supporting Obama.

This sounds vaguely familiar...

 

[Chadstroma]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

He didn't say it was for the good of the Democratic party. Just for the good of the party. I can only assume he means the Republican party.

The next 4 years will be the toughest any administration will have to face since FDR. If I wanted the 'best' for the Republican party, I would be supporting Obama.

This is like purposely losing in week one of FF in order to get a better waiver position. It's a bad idea.

No, not really, it is not like that at all. It would be a brilliant political move. It will not happen, so it is all academic speculation at this point. But you do all realize that 42% within the Democratic party want Obama to drop out. That is the same as the 42% that want Clinton to drop out.

 

[Chadstroma]

What if Obama were to step out? An act of the 'ultimate' sacrafice for the good of the party. He would instantly jump in popularity among Democrats and likely be the new leader of the party.

If Obama were to drop out now when he leads Clinton in delegates, states won, popular vote and national polling results, do you think Obama's popularity would jump among the million or so folks who donated to his campaign and have expended a lot of time and energy to his campaign? I don't.

Oh yes! Of course! The act of sacrafice for the good of the party... which for many of his supporters is the good of the country... would be hailed up and down as nothing less than heroic.

I don't follow. According to your hypo, Obama stepping out would deliver the presidency to the Republicans. Why would that be perceived as being a sacrifice for the good for the Democratic party?

He didn't say it was for the good of the Democratic party. Just for the good of the party. I can only assume he means the Republican party.

The next 4 years will be the toughest any administration will have to face since FDR. If I wanted the 'best' for the Republican party, I would be supporting Obama.

This is like purposely losing in week one of FF in order to get a better waiver position. It's a bad idea.

Or having the first pick overall in a redraft and drafting only injured players so you'll have a high draft position next year.

I expected some reactionary posts but I actually was expecting adonis to be more thoughtful about this.

 

[DrJ]

Donated $50 today in honor of Dr J. Anyone else?

Just donated. In the "share your story" section, i said - "This donation is on the behalf of Dr J, a fervent supporter from the FBG website." YWIA

 

[adonis]

I expected some reactionary posts but I actually was expecting adonis to be more thoughtful about this.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to be thoughtful about this.Obama is winning states, delegates, popular vote. He's up by 10%+ nationally over Hillary among democrats. Most expect that in a head-to-head competition with McCain he'd win. And you're suggesting he drop out to improve his chances somehow?What does he need to improve on? The democrats, once he is the nominee, will rally around him and give him upwards of 80% support. The 42% you note now is only with Hillary in the mix, the numbers will be much higher when/if Obama wins the nomination.So he's on pace, and odds on favorite, to do this. Once he does it (if), he'll have a much higher percentage of support than 42, so that number is almost meaningless in a decision making process regarding what he should do.Hillary on the other hand, has a lot to gain by dropping out here. The party would appreciate it, leaders would, it would repair her image of causing much problems, many elected officials would appreciate it because they won't have to make tough stands...she had everything to gain and little to lose by doing it. She has no lead, and is a longshot to win it all.Obama is in great position to win it all. Why would he pull out this year, only to hope that more years from now he can be in much the same position he's in today? Probably a worse position? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Maurile Tremblay]

I expected some reactionary posts but I actually was expecting adonis to be more thoughtful about this.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to be thoughtful about this.

I'd file this under "things that non-Obama supporters think that Obama-supporters should believe in order to be better Obama supporters" -- which is similar to "things that atheists think that theists should believe in order to be better theists," "things that theists think that atheists should believe in order to be more rational atheists," "things that non-libertarians think that libertarians should believe according to basic libertarian principles," etc. Such ideas are nearly always much kookier than the actual beliefs held by people in those groups.

 

[All Your Base Are Belong To Us]

I expected some reactionary posts but I actually was expecting adonis to be more thoughtful about this.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to be thoughtful about this.

I'd file this under "things that non-Obama supporters think that Obama-supporters should believe in order to be better Obama supporters" -- which is similar to "things that atheists think that theists should believe in order to be better theists," "things that theists think that atheists should believe in order to be more rational atheists," "things that non-libertarians think that libertarians should believe according to basic libertarian principles," etc. Such ideas are nearly always much kookier than the actual beliefs held by people in those groups.

Well, he was a Huckabee supporter...

 

[Chadstroma]

I expected some reactionary posts but I actually was expecting adonis to be more thoughtful about this.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to be thoughtful about this.

I'd file this under "things that non-Obama supporters think that Obama-supporters should believe in order to be better Obama supporters" -- which is similar to "things that atheists think that theists should believe in order to be better theists," "things that theists think that atheists should believe in order to be more rational atheists," "things that non-libertarians think that libertarians should believe according to basic libertarian principles," etc. Such ideas are nearly always much kookier than the actual beliefs held by people in those groups.

For being such an intelligent individual, sometimes you strike me as not being so smart. I do not think that this is something that Obama supporters should think. When did I ever state that? I am not even saying Obama should do this. I am simply throwing it out there as being a thought of something that will not happen but would be a brilliant political move.

The reactionary comments are a joke. They seem to be more directed at me personally since I am well known as not being an Obama supporter. I am not for Clinton and I am not for Obama. I am observing this with interest because the politics of it all is amazing. If Obama did this, he would be on top of the world and have a lock as a future U.S. President. I am not so sure why that deserves these 'that is like throwing your fantasy league to get a better draft spot' kind of B.S.. Disagree with the idea, fine, but I do not understand the over reactions here to this.

What is the threat here?

 

[Chadstroma]

I expected some reactionary posts but I actually was expecting adonis to be more thoughtful about this.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to be thoughtful about this.Obama is winning states, delegates, popular vote. He's up by 10%+ nationally over Hillary among democrats. Most expect that in a head-to-head competition with McCain he'd win. And you're suggesting he drop out to improve his chances somehow?What does he need to improve on? The democrats, once he is the nominee, will rally around him and give him upwards of 80% support. The 42% you note now is only with Hillary in the mix, the numbers will be much higher when/if Obama wins the nomination.So he's on pace, and odds on favorite, to do this. Once he does it (if), he'll have a much higher percentage of support than 42, so that number is almost meaningless in a decision making process regarding what he should do.Hillary on the other hand, has a lot to gain by dropping out here. The party would appreciate it, leaders would, it would repair her image of causing much problems, many elected officials would appreciate it because they won't have to make tough stands...she had everything to gain and little to lose by doing it. She has no lead, and is a longshot to win it all.Obama is in great position to win it all. Why would he pull out this year, only to hope that more years from now he can be in much the same position he's in today? Probably a worse position? It just doesn't make sense.

Clinton gains nothing by dropping out. Her image will not be changed within or without the party. Obama is in a great position to win it all but he certainly is not a lock. The last poll I saw (sometime last week) had Obama up on McCain by 4 points. 4 points! That is not nearly as inevitable as you seem to think it is. I disagree, I think he would be in a much better position to win and in fact, would be a real life "lock" to be a future U.S. President with the only real question being 'when'.

 

[commisholio]

I expected some reactionary posts but I actually was expecting adonis to be more thoughtful about this.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to be thoughtful about this.

I'd file this under "things that non-Obama supporters think that Obama-supporters should believe in order to be better Obama supporters" -- which is similar to "things that atheists think that theists should believe in order to be better theists," "things that theists think that atheists should believe in order to be more rational atheists," "things that non-libertarians think that libertarians should believe according to basic libertarian principles," etc. Such ideas are nearly always much kookier than the actual beliefs held by people in those groups.

For being such an intelligent individual, sometimes you strike me as not being so smart. I do not think that this is something that Obama supporters should think. When did I ever state that? I am not even saying Obama should do this. I am simply throwing it out there as being a thought of something that will not happen but would be a brilliant political move.

The reactionary comments are a joke. They seem to be more directed at me personally since I am well known as not being an Obama supporter. I am not for Clinton and I am not for Obama. I am observing this with interest because the politics of it all is amazing. If Obama did this, he would be on top of the world and have a lock as a future U.S. President. I am not so sure why that deserves these 'that is like throwing your fantasy league to get a better draft spot' kind of B.S.. Disagree with the idea, fine, but I do not understand the over reactions here to this.

What is the threat here?

Why would any Obama supporter from this time around throw their support to him the second time around? After all, he quit while he was ahead "for the good of the party" - better to support someone who is in it to win it.