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*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (2 Viewers)

I am for Obama. However, I don't think there's any reason to take knocks on McCain because of his age. Hillary?! She's the :devil: incarnate, so mock, roast, etc. to your heart's desire! ;) McCain though? He is a very worthy adversary and a stand-up guy who has served our nation more than the average 20 of us on this board...so you won't catch me talking smack about him until it is deserved. I wish other people would do the same. ;)
I used to like McCain quite a lot. I thought his "Straight Talk Express" schtick in 2000 was great and he seemed to really have a lot of principles, which is so rare in politics. But in 2004, McCain let his ambition for the presidency get the better of him, and he sacrificed his principles in an attempt to get in with both the establishment base and the religious right of the Republican party. He embraced George W. Bush, the man who did the most vile political attacks in probably 100 years on him in the 2000 South Carolina primary, in order to get support from Bush's backers. And McCain suddenly did an about-face on his stated and public opinions on the evangelical leaders such as Pat Robertson, seeking their support and pandering to their supporters. Bleck. I lost all my admiration for the man then. And in the end, for what? It didn't even work, for crying out loud. He sold his soul and got nothing back - talk about proving the man's bad judgment. He's the Republican's presumptive nominee based on only getting a third of the Republican voters to back him, but that was enough in a crazy year where the party was fractured and supported six different candidates.

McCain's ridiculous statements over Iraq and Iran in the past year have only cemented my dislike for the man. I wish we had the McCain of 2000 running in this election. I'd be tempted to vote for him (provided Obama didn't get the nomination, of course). Unfortunately, I think that McCain is long lost to history and we'll never see him again.
I've been hearing this same refrain from lots of people, but the truth is quite different. First, it wasn't McCain who moved to Bush, it was the other way around. Bush signed the Campaign Finance Reform Act, then he took McCain's advice about Rumsfield and the Surge, and he also agreed to McCain's immigration ideas. McCain "embraced" Bush the same way he "embraced" Kennedy and Feingold- he is willing to work with anyone who agrees with his core principles.As fae as the meetings with Fallwell and Robertson went, sure he shook hands with them, but what else did he do? McCain refused to go along with a traditional marriage amendment to the constitution. He refused to accept their ideas on immigration, and he led the Gang of 14, which they didn't like at all. McCain knows there's a big difference between having your photograph taken and actually taking action. He has stayed remarkably consistent to the views he has held his entire life, and which he had in 2000.

As far as his comments about Iraq and Iran, that is a whole other matter and I will address it in detail in coming weeks in the McCain thread. But you need to stop this "John McCain is a different man than in 2000." He isn't.
He lost me (mostly) when he got behind the creationism wackos and said it should be taught along with evolution in Science classes.Then with the Iraq stuff, there was no chance I could ever vote for him.

 
As fae as the meetings with Fallwell and Robertson went, sure he shook hands with them, but what else did he do? McCain refused to go along with a traditional marriage amendment to the constitution. He refused to accept their ideas on immigration, and he led the Gang of 14, which they didn't like at all. McCain knows there's a big difference between having your photograph taken and actually taking action. He has stayed remarkably consistent to the views he has held his entire life, and which he had in 2000.
You make it sound like McCain happened to be at an event that Robertson and others were also attending. McCain sought them out. He called Robertson and Falwell "agents of intolerance" in 2000. And then in 2006, he made public appearances with them. He made speeches to their evangelical congregations where he spelled out his "new" positions on issues like abortion and gay marriage - positions to the right of where 2000 McCain was.And TommyGunz made the right point concerning McCain and Bush. If someone spread the same vile lies about me that Bush spread about McCain in 2000, the first physical contact I made wouldn't be a handshake but a punch in the face.I see glimpses of the principled McCain every now and then. Which makes me wonder if his pandering to the right is mere lip service and that a McCain presidency would be rather moderate. But why should I have to guess? McCain's current claims of "straight talk" are a fallacy.
 
Since many of us are really libertarians:

Why this libertarian can support Obama (blog post)

Libertarians for Obama (blog post)

Official (?) Libertarians for Obama site

Thought this was a solid post (also from the first blog):

It took me a few days, but as I promised the other day, below is my analysis of the three remaining candidates with a realistic shot at the Presidency. Should Bloomberg run as a third party candidate (or for that matter, Bob Barr or another prominent libertarian), I will revisit this analysis. Of course, this analysis is utterly useless if you are unwilling to vote for someone who is not a libertarian in any way (and will thus be abstaining or voting for the LP candidate no matter what). But I think it's a useful guide to the big three nonetheless.

I have prioritized and weighted the issues based on their importance to me in this election; I have no doubt that others will disagree with that weighting and prioritization.

1. Executive Power/Civil Liberties - This is by far the most important issue this year in my mind. A politician with an expansive view of executive power is a politician willing to cram policies down our throats regardless of whether there is an overwhelming consensus (or any consensus at all, for that matter) behind those policies. In other words, a candidate's views on Executive Power affect the weight I give to their views on all other issues. The simple fact that all three major remaining candidates come from the Senate suggests that no matter what we will have an improvement over Bush due to a likely respect for the institutional separation of powers that presumably results. A view of Executive Power that is less expansive is, by the way, a necessary component of the Madisonian view of faction that is supposed to be the focus of this site; an expansive view of Executive Power will lead a President to run roughshod over opposing factions in the hopes of creating a permanent majority faction.

First, Sen. Clinton's past creates many serious questions about her on this issue, particularly with respect to the way in which she handled her infamous Health Care Task Force, and also with respect to her avowed support of an expansive view of executive privilege. McCain and Obama's political careers have both primarily been in the legislative branch, suggesting a likelihood of profound respect for the legislative process. However, McCain's sometimes bulldog-ish style on legislative matters creates some room for concern, as does his support of today's FISA legislation, complete with immunity for the telecoms. I have no doubt that he would be a vast improvement over Bush/Cheney on Executive Power, and to his credit he has stood up against torture. As importantly, he has absolutely condemned the use of signing statements across the board, which neither Clinton nor Obama has done. However, McCain voted against restoration of habeas corpus, which is a huge strike against him. Obama, on the other hand, is a constitutional law scholar who has largely stood up against expansion of executive power in a way that neither Clinton nor McCain have; moreover, his rhetorical emphases on consensus-building hint strongly at a candidate who is unlikely to force policy and law down our throats without having something resembling a super-majority behind him.

Grades: Clinton: D, McCain: C+, Obama: B+

2. Foreign Policy/Defense Spending/Commander-in-Chief Role: Foreign policy is arguably the arena in which the President has the greatest amount of direct control, Constitutionally speaking. As a practical matter though, entrenched bureacracies often inhibit a President's ability to actually make dramatic changes in foreign policy. That said, I can say from personal experience that the Bush neo-con bureaucracy is largely located at the top of the food chain at the moment, and would likely be replaced under a Dem administration. The biggest sub-issue within this field is obviously Iraq, Afghanistan, and the GWOT. Sen. Clinton's position on Iraq ought to be cause for great concern, as should her advocacy of "coercive diplomacy" and her support of Kyl-Lieberman. Add to that her husband's rather extensive use of American military power, and I simply can't trust her on foreign policy or the GWOT. While I could not disagree more with McCain on most of his current foreign policy views, his pre-9/11 foreign policy views were quite sane. I also believe that, if indeed we must stay in Iraq, McCain is best equipped to oversee our actions there, and will do so with dignity and without authorizing torture and war crimes. Obama, on the other hand, is by far the closest to a libertarian in his foreign policy views (excluding, for the moment, his views on trade). Personally, I tend to support an immediate or rapid withdrawal of forces in Iraq, with a redeployment to Afghanistan for some of them. However, I do have questions about Obama's ability to oversee such a withdrawal in a wise manner given his lack of military experience (then again, he would presumably defer to the generals on the best way to accomplish a withdrawal). Importantly, Obama's election, in and of itself, would noticeably improve the world's image of the United States, creating an immediate intangible effect.

Grades: Clinton: D+, McCain: C, Obama: B-

3. Economic Policy/Taxes: Both Obama and McCain are well-established deficit hawks. We should never forget that the deficit itself creates a hidden tax in terms of both inflation and additional spending on interest payments. Obama is most likely to attempt to downsize the military budget, but McCain is the most likely to have the ability to do so. McCain has historically been a tax-cutter, and for the record, I think he was right to insist that Bush tie tax cuts to spending cuts. While I will deal with healthcare and SS more below, it's worth pointing out that McCain's positions would, I think, actually cut costs in those fields whereas Obama's would significantly increase them overall, and Clinton's would dramatically increase them. McCain is by far the best on free trade, though Clinton has a pretty good record in that respect, and Obama's economics are much more trade-friendly than his rhetoric. While I think the mortgage "crisis" will be over by the time the next President takes office, it's worth noting that Clinton's call for a lengthy moratorium on ARM adjustments is beyond obtuse from an economics standpoint.

Grades: Clinton: D+, Obama: C-, McCain: B

4. Health Care: Clinton wants to force health care down our throats at tremendous cost and with mandates that scare the bejesus out of me. Hers is an outright nanny-state position that is beyond disturbing from a libertarian point of view; equally bad, she insists on universal health care as an end in itself, and improperly diagnoses the problems with our health care system. She refuses to even discuss the possibility that there are long-term problems with Social Security, dismissing suggestions to that effect as Republican talking points. Obama correctly diagnoses the problems with our health care system as being cost-based, though he incorrectly diagnoses the source of those problems and is far too willing to blame insurance companies for all the ills of the system. Still, his admirable refusal to cave on the mandates issue shows a willingness to leave health care largely in the hands of individuals. In addition, he has actually acknowledged the long-term problems with Social Security; while his solution to those problems is hardly libertarian, my understanding is that it does provide some room for market-based reforms. McCain's health care proposal is far and away the best, and I evaluated it more fully awhile back. It is far from perfect, but by politician standards, it's pretty damn good.

Grades: Clinton: F, Obama: C, McCain: B+

5. Personal Freedoms: Obama gets some bonus points as the rare candidate who may actually scale back (however minimally) the War on (some) Drugs. None of the three candidates would support a Federal Marriage Amendment. Outside of Don't Ask, Don't Tell, I don't think there is much that a President can do on most gay rights issues, but I have little doubt that McCain would keep that policy in place, Clinton would be likely to do so for quite some time, and Obama would likely try to repeal it relatively quickly. On firearms, all three are terrible; however, McCain should be by far the scariest on this issue, as he would be most likely to have political capital on this issue, particularly if he only ran for one term. All three, to my knowledge, support the onerous McCain-Feingold law, but of course McCain loses extra points for being the sponsor of that bill.

Grades: McCain: D+, Clinton: C, Obama: B-

6. Education: On education, McCain appears pretty close to the libertarian position; however, his position on No Child Left Behind is extremely vague, and is a major strike against him. Obama gets major points for his support of merit pay and his support of increased education tax credits (which inherently promote greater school choice). Hillary Clinton's position is in lockstep with the teachers' unions.

Grades: Clinton: C, McCain: B/incomplete, Obama: B

I would have liked to include judicial appointments in this evaluation, but I suspect that they will all appoint judges with whom I agree as often as I disagree, but who will on average be well-qualified and fair-minded. I don't think there is a judge on the SCOTUS these days with whom I agree with much more than 50% of the time on close issues.

Final Grades: Clinton: D+, McCain: C, Obama: B-

To be honest, I'm surprised that McCain didn't do worse in this evaluation, while Obama scored about where I expected him to, as did Clinton. I do think this evaluation shows that the differences between Obama and Clinton are fairly substantial, especially on the two most important issues of executive power and foreign policy.

The end result of all this is that Clinton scares the hell out of me, and I think would be as bad or worse than Bush/Cheney have been, McCain would be at least tolerable, and Obama would be above average in comparison to previous Presidents, but by no means the second coming of Grover Cleveland (or Calvin Coolidge, for that matter). Depending on how things shake out in November, I can see myself voting for Obama, the LP nominee, or McCain (but this would require that Clinton be the Dem nominee AND that NJ became a critical swing state, which is unlikely).
 
Above post is trash. No libertarian can support a democrat. Republicans are not much better, but the Dems are worse.

ETA: Looks like crap to mis-inform and con libertarians into thinking about voting for Obama.

 
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I see glimpses of the principled McCain every now and then. Which makes me wonder if his pandering to the right is mere lip service and that a McCain presidency would be rather moderate. But why should I have to guess? McCain's current claims of "straight talk" are a fallacy.
From yesterday's NYTimes . . .Op-Ed Columnist

The World’s Worst Panderer

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Even for those of us who shudder at many of John McCain’s positions, there is something refreshing about a man who wins so many votes despite a major political shortcoming: he is abysmal at pandering.

What sets Senator McCain apart isn’t so much his physical courage in Vietnam; many of his fellow prisoners also showed immense bravery under torture. But the United States Congress tends to be a courage-free zone, so Mr. McCain’s orneriness toward Republican primary voters makes him a lionheart in the political world.

It’s a pleasure to see candidates who don’t just throw red meat to the crowds but try to offer vegetarian options.

Consider torture. There was nary a vote in the Republican primary to be gained by opposing the waterboarding of swarthy Muslim men accused of terrorism. But Mr. McCain led the battle against **** Cheney on torture, even though it cost him donations, votes and endorsements.

Even more than his time as a prisoner in Hanoi, that marked Mr. McCain’s most heroic moment. He risked his political career to protect Muslim terror suspects who constitute the most despised and voiceless people in America.

Then there’s immigration. While other Republican candidates revved up the mobs by debating how high a limb is optimal for hanging illegal immigrants, he patiently explained that it’s a complex problem with unsatisfying solutions, including creation of a path to citizenship for illegals.

For years, Mr. McCain denounced ethanol subsidies, which exist mostly because every ambitious politician in America wants to win the Iowa caucuses someday. This year he claimed that he liked ethanol after all, but he was so manifestly insincere and incompetent in this pandering that the episode was less contemptible than amusing.

In Michigan, he dared to tell voters that some jobs “aren’t coming back.”

In Iraq, Mr. McCain argued that the solution to an unpopular war was to send more troops. He gets bonus points for almost never mentioning that his son Jimmy was a marine stationed in Iraq until this month.

Granted, his pride in “straight talk” may arise partly because he is an execrable actor. When he does try double-talk, he looks so guilty and uncomfortable that he convinces nobody.

It’s also striking that Barack Obama is leading a Democratic field in which he has been the candidate who is least-scripted and most willing to annoy primary voters, whether in speaking about Reagan’s impact on history or on the suffering of Palestinians.

All of this is puzzlingly mature on the part of the electorate. A common complaint about President Bush is that he walls himself off from alternative points of view, but the American public has the same management flaw: it normally fires politicians who tell them bad news.

It is true that Mr. McCain sometimes weaves and bobs. With the arrival of the primaries, he has moved to the right on social issues and pretended to be more conservative than he is. On Wednesday, for example, he retreated on his brave stand on torture by voting against a bill that would block the C.I.A. from using physical force in interrogations.

His most famous pander came in 2000, when, after earlier denouncing the Confederate flag as a “symbol of racism,” he embraced it as “a symbol of heritage.” To his credit, Mr. McCain later acknowledged, “I feared that if I answered honestly I could not win the South Carolina primary, so I chose to compromise my principles.”

In short, Mr. McCain truly has principles that he bends or breaks out of desperation and with distaste. That’s preferable to politicians who are congenital invertebrates.

I disagree with Mr. McCain on Iraq, taxes, abortion and almost every other major issue. He has a nasty temper, which isn’t ideal for the hand holding a nuclear trigger. For a man running partly on biography, he treated his first wife, Carol, poorly. And one of the meanest put-downs in modern political history was a savage joke that Mr. McCain publicly related about Chelsea Clinton when she was 18 years old; it was inexcusable.

Yet Mr. McCain himself would probably acknowledge every one of these flaws, and he is a rare politician with the courage not just to follow the crowd but also to lead it. It is refreshing to see that courage rewarded by voters.

ETA: I'm staunchly an Obama man, but I just read this and thought it might add something more to the McCain/Pandering discussion.

 
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I see glimpses of the principled McCain every now and then. Which makes me wonder if his pandering to the right is mere lip service and that a McCain presidency would be rather moderate. But why should I have to guess? McCain's current claims of "straight talk" are a fallacy.
From yesterday's NYTimes . . .Op-Ed Columnist

The World’s Worst Panderer

By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF

Even for those of us who shudder at many of John McCain’s positions, there is something refreshing about a man who wins so many votes despite a major political shortcoming: he is abysmal at pandering.

It is true that Mr. McCain sometimes weaves and bobs. With the arrival of the primaries, he has moved to the right on social issues and pretended to be more conservative than he is. On Wednesday, for example, he retreated on his brave stand on torture by voting against a bill that would block the C.I.A. from using physical force in interrogations.

His most famous pander came in 2000, when, after earlier denouncing the Confederate flag as a “symbol of racism,” he embraced it as “a symbol of heritage.” To his credit, Mr. McCain later acknowledged, “I feared that if I answered honestly I could not win the South Carolina primary, so I chose to compromise my principles.”

In short, Mr. McCain truly has principles that he bends or breaks out of desperation and with distaste. That’s preferable to politicians who are congenital invertebrates.

ETA: I'm staunchly an Obama man, but I just read this and thought it might add something more to the McCain/Pandering discussion.
I am going to go with not a very good job. Here is McCain freely admitting he pandered for votes but that isn't pandering when McCain does it?
 
Above post is trash. No libertarian can support a democrat. Republicans are not much better, but the Dems are worse.ETA: Looks like crap to mis-inform and con libertarians into thinking about voting for Obama.
I agree, the government has been shrinking and civil liberty has been increasing at incredible rates under the current Republican administration. Why look elsewhere?
 
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Above post is trash. No libertarian can support a democrat. Republicans are not much better, but the Dems are worse.ETA: Looks like crap to mis-inform and con libertarians into thinking about voting for Obama.
I agree, the government has been shrinking and civil liberties have been increasing at incredible rates under the current Republican administration. Why look elsewhere?
Where are all these civil liberties going to? I do not notice a single one. You think the government is too much now? Wait until a Dem gets a hold of it.
 
Above post is trash. No libertarian can support a democrat. Republicans are not much better, but the Dems are worse.

ETA: Looks like crap to mis-inform and con libertarians into thinking about voting for Obama.
I agree, the government has been shrinking and civil liberties have been increasing at incredible rates under the current Republican administration. Why look elsewhere?
Where are all these civil liberties going to? I do not notice a single one. You think the government is too much now? Wait until a Dem gets a hold of it.
 
NCCommish said:
Homer J Simpson said:
Based on my viewing of the various news channels this morning, you can all breathe easy. Hillary got her memo out to everyone that Obama is trying to change the rules in the middle of the game by saying that the superdelegates should vote the same as the pledged delegates. Whew, I thought they were going to let that one get away.
Luckily that isn't at all transparent. No one will ever guess her motivation.
I know what her motivation is. It's 100% principle. Right?
Wow you did guess. My hat is off to you sir. You are a scholar and a gentleman.
 
That Libertarians for Obama thing is full of sweet unintentional comedy.

The simple fact that all three major remaining candidates come from the Senate suggests that no matter what we will have an improvement over Bush due to a likely respect for the institutional separation of powers that presumably results.
:goodposting:
 
What are people's predictions about Wisconsin tomorrow? It seems like it will be close - I've seen polls go either way.

 
What are people's predictions about Wisconsin tomorrow? It seems like it will be close - I've seen polls go either way.
I predict I'll be voting for Obama. :lmao: Otherwise, I really don't know. Saw a few ads this weekend. About twice as many Obama as Hillary. Hillary's ad said Obama was ducking her in the debates and that his health care plan would leave 15 million uninsured and he wants to slash social security. She also accused him of running negative ads. I must have missed those. :goodposting: How much was Obama supposed to win by in Virginia and Maryland? I'm hoping Obama supporters will come out in bigger numbers than Clinton supporters.
 
What are people's predictions about Wisconsin tomorrow? It seems like it will be close - I've seen polls go either way.
I predict I'll be voting for Obama. :lmao: Otherwise, I really don't know. Saw a few ads this weekend. About twice as many Obama as Hillary. Hillary's ad said Obama was ducking her in the debates and that his health care plan would leave 15 million uninsured and he wants to slash social security. She also accused him of running negative ads. I must have missed those. :goodposting: How much was Obama supposed to win by in Virginia and Maryland? I'm hoping Obama supporters will come out in bigger numbers than Clinton supporters.
He was supposed to win Maryland big, and Virginia by about 8 to 10 points. Wisonsin doesn't have as many "latte Democrats" from what I've read as Virginia or Maryland - so the demographics are not as much in his favor. What's in his favor is that it is an open primary with same-day registration.
 
What are people's predictions about Wisconsin tomorrow? It seems like it will be close - I've seen polls go either way.
I predict I'll be voting for Obama. :D Otherwise, I really don't know. Saw a few ads this weekend. About twice as many Obama as Hillary. Hillary's ad said Obama was ducking her in the debates and that his health care plan would leave 15 million uninsured and he wants to slash social security. She also accused him of running negative ads. I must have missed those. :rolleyes: How much was Obama supposed to win by in Virginia and Maryland? I'm hoping Obama supporters will come out in bigger numbers than Clinton supporters.
He was supposed to win Maryland big, and Virginia by about 8 to 10 points. Wisonsin doesn't have as many "latte Democrats" from what I've read as Virginia or Maryland - so the demographics are not as much in his favor. What's in his favor is that it is an open primary with same-day registration.
Milwaukee and Madison will be strongly pro-Obama. The rest of the state will tilt toward Clinton. Milwaukee and Madison have a pretty large share of the state's population. Obama should win.
 
I added this to the main page:

UPDATE: Since we have a pretty good group of FBG's who are Obama supporters, I got a suggestion that we start an FBG campaign donation group that is hosted on Obama's website. Here is the link to donate as an FBG, which will be counted as part of our group of supporters. No benefits go to me for setting it up, or to anyone, but it might be cool to see how we as a group can contribute financially to him getting the nomination and eventually the presidency. We're starting out with a goal of raising $1,000 which isn't that much if we each just chip in a little bit. I know I've donated individually, as well as many of you, but in the future, if we all click through this link above, we can track our impact, so donate today!
If you're so inclined, it'd be cool to have everyone here contribute through that link. Again, I get nothing from this, financially or otherwise.
I was due for another donation anyway. Did you set up an actual group? I was thinking about doing this.
I added this to the main page:

UPDATE: Since we have a pretty good group of FBG's who are Obama supporters, I got a suggestion that we start an FBG campaign donation group that is hosted on Obama's website. Here is the link to donate as an FBG, which will be counted as part of our group of supporters. No benefits go to me for setting it up, or to anyone, but it might be cool to see how we as a group can contribute financially to him getting the nomination and eventually the presidency. We're starting out with a goal of raising $1,000 which isn't that much if we each just chip in a little bit. I know I've donated individually, as well as many of you, but in the future, if we all click through this link above, we can track our impact, so donate today!
If you're so inclined, it'd be cool to have everyone here contribute through that link. Again, I get nothing from this, financially or otherwise.
Cool. Just sent in $100.
I added this to the main page:

UPDATE: Since we have a pretty good group of FBG's who are Obama supporters, I got a suggestion that we start an FBG campaign donation group that is hosted on Obama's website. Here is the link to donate as an FBG, which will be counted as part of our group of supporters. No benefits go to me for setting it up, or to anyone, but it might be cool to see how we as a group can contribute financially to him getting the nomination and eventually the presidency. We're starting out with a goal of raising $1,000 which isn't that much if we each just chip in a little bit. I know I've donated individually, as well as many of you, but in the future, if we all click through this link above, we can track our impact, so donate today!
If you're so inclined, it'd be cool to have everyone here contribute through that link. Again, I get nothing from this, financially or otherwise.
In for $50
:thumbup: :thumbup: :unsure: We're off to a good start. Anyone else due for a first time donation, even $25, or to renew a monthly one?

 
He lost me (mostly) when he got behind the creationism wackos and said it should be taught along with evolution in Science classes.Then with the Iraq stuff, there was no chance I could ever vote for him.
McCain believes creationism should be taught alongside evolution? Really?
 
Just getting updated on the news after being out most of the weekend. Found an updated count of delegates:

The Wall Street Journal reports that Obama now holds a lead of 1,275 delegates over Clinton's 1,220. But the gap could prove to be wider since Clinton's total holds more super-delegates who are free to change their votes. Without super-delegates, Obama's lead is 1,112 delegates to Clinton's 978. A total of 2,025 is needed to secure the nomination.
 
Clinton, Obama science advisors showcase their candidates

Clinton, Obama science advisors showcase their candidates

18 hours ago

BOSTON, Massachusetts (AFP) — Science advisors to US Democratic presidential hopefuls Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton faced off in a debate at the annual convention of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS).

Both Democratic contenders and their Republican front-running rival, Senator John McCain, declined to take part in the discussion at the scientific gathering in Boston Saturday, an AAAS spokesman said.

But the challenge of appearing before a hall full of top scientists was taken up by Obama's young science advisor and senior vice president of the non-profit One Economy Corporation, Alec Ross; and by Clinton's advisor, Thomas Kalil, special assistant to the Chancellor for Science and Technology at the University of California at Berkeley.

The informal debate was greeted with keen interest by the audience, whose members sent hundreds of questions to the New York Times science reporter acting as moderator.

The scientists' reactions to the answers, however, was subdued at best: Ross and Kalil each were applauded twice and briefly.

The two advisors showed that, while the two candidates' programs for science and technology were similar on many points, they were quite different in their approach.

Clinton and Obama propose doubling the federal budget for basic scientific research over a period of five years; investing heavily in technology to produce next-generation biofuels; and advancing the fight against global warming.

They also want to remove what they say are the current ideological constraints on science, to return it to its rightful place in government policies.

"Hillary Clinton will end this assault on science," said Kalil, who served as deputy assistant for technology and economic policy under former president Bill Clinton.

"She knows that innovation is critical for economic growth and high paying jobs," he added, after outlining Hillary Clinton's science program on a giant graph.

Ross limited himself to a simple oral presentation that was less structured as he invited members of the audience to visit Obama's Internet site to get more details about his program.

It argued that the senator from Illinois intended to use science and technology as tools for achieving his economic and social goals.

"Senator Obama wants to use technology and innovation to solve our nation's most pressing problems," Ross said.

For him, access to technological educational tools was a means of eliminating social disparities, the adviser said.

He said he wanted to equip all public schools in low-income neighborhoods with computers that would have high-speed access to the Internet.

In a bid to reduce healthcare costs, the candidate proposes to invest 50 billion dollars over five years in computerizing all medical records, which is expected to help save potentially 77 billion dollars a year.

Obama also plans to create the post of high representative for technology to ensure that the federal government is equipped with information systems of the 21st century.

Clinton supports the current space exploration program, but intends to increase NASA's budget to boost Earth sciences and help fight against global warming, said Kalil.

Obama has not finished formulating his position on space research, said his adviser, but he intended to do it soon.
 
So you know that whole, long analysis of the Texas primary and how the bizarre rules aren't likely to favor one candidate over another? Well, guess who finally figured that out, only AFTER making winning Texas a key point of her remaining strategy?!? :lmao:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...competence.html

Competence

18 Feb 2008 03:28 am

by hilzoy

From the Washington Post (emphasis added, and stolen from publius):

"Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

What Clinton aides discovered is that in certain targeted districts, such as Democratic state Sen. Juan Hinojosa's heavily Hispanic Senate district in the Rio Grande Valley, Clinton could win an overwhelming majority of votes but gain only a small edge in delegates. At the same time, a win in the more urban districts in Dallas and Houston -- where Sen. Barack Obama expects to receive significant support -- could yield three or four times as many delegates.

"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem.""
When I read this, I dissolved in giggles after the first sentence. It was that part about the Texas delegate selection rules "creating a new obstacle for her" that got me. In what sense are the Texas rules a "new obstacle?" Were they only recently passed? Not as far as I can tell -- here, for instance, is a pdf about them from August 2007, which should have given the Clinton campaign ample time to get up to speed. While I was having fun thinking of possible analogies -- would I describe the existence of the Pacific Ocean as "creating a new obstacle" for my plan to walk from Baltimore to Beijing? or the fact that five is a prime number as "creating a new obstacle" to my proving that it is a multiple of two? --my co-blogger publius was actually writing the post I might have written, only funnier:
"Good lord, let’s see if I have this right. The Clinton campaign decides to cede every post-Super Tuesday state to Obama under the theory that Texas and Ohio will be strong firewalls. After – after – implementing this Rudy-esque strategy, they “discovered” that the archaic Texas rules will almost certainly result in a split delegate count (at best).

While they were busy “discovering” the rules, however, the Obama campaign had people on the ground in Texas explaining the system, organizing precincts, and making Powerpoints. I know because I went to one of these meetings a week ago. I should have invited Mark Penn I suppose. (ed. Maybe foresight is an obsolete macrotrend.)"
Note to self: If I ever run for office and base my campaign on the idea that I am ready to lead from day one, I must remember to actually run an effective campaign.
:confused: :lmao: :lmao:
 
So you know that whole, long analysis of the Texas primary and how the bizarre rules aren't likely to favor one candidate over another? Well, guess who finally figured that out, only AFTER making winning Texas a key point of her remaining strategy?!? :lmao:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...competence.html

Competence

18 Feb 2008 03:28 am

by hilzoy

From the Washington Post (emphasis added, and stolen from publius):

"Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

What Clinton aides discovered is that in certain targeted districts, such as Democratic state Sen. Juan Hinojosa's heavily Hispanic Senate district in the Rio Grande Valley, Clinton could win an overwhelming majority of votes but gain only a small edge in delegates. At the same time, a win in the more urban districts in Dallas and Houston -- where Sen. Barack Obama expects to receive significant support -- could yield three or four times as many delegates.

"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem.""
When I read this, I dissolved in giggles after the first sentence. It was that part about the Texas delegate selection rules "creating a new obstacle for her" that got me. In what sense are the Texas rules a "new obstacle?" Were they only recently passed? Not as far as I can tell -- here, for instance, is a pdf about them from August 2007, which should have given the Clinton campaign ample time to get up to speed. While I was having fun thinking of possible analogies -- would I describe the existence of the Pacific Ocean as "creating a new obstacle" for my plan to walk from Baltimore to Beijing? or the fact that five is a prime number as "creating a new obstacle" to my proving that it is a multiple of two? --my co-blogger publius was actually writing the post I might have written, only funnier:
"Good lord, let’s see if I have this right. The Clinton campaign decides to cede every post-Super Tuesday state to Obama under the theory that Texas and Ohio will be strong firewalls. After – after – implementing this Rudy-esque strategy, they “discovered” that the archaic Texas rules will almost certainly result in a split delegate count (at best).

While they were busy “discovering” the rules, however, the Obama campaign had people on the ground in Texas explaining the system, organizing precincts, and making Powerpoints. I know because I went to one of these meetings a week ago. I should have invited Mark Penn I suppose. (ed. Maybe foresight is an obsolete macrotrend.)"
Note to self: If I ever run for office and base my campaign on the idea that I am ready to lead from day one, I must remember to actually run an effective campaign.
:confused: :lmao: :lmao:
This is really a key point. Hillary keeps talking about being ready "on Day 1" - but who's run a better campaign - her or Obama? Anyone who says Hillary clearly has their head in the sand. If you keep botching up your campaign, how are you going to be ready "on Day 1?"
 
The tax issue is shaping up to be the #1 issue in the election. McCain is steering it that way. He will try and focus on how Obama's plans will skyrocket taxes across the board in many different ways. Obama will scream for change to avoid the subject.

 
The tax issue is shaping up to be the #1 issue in the election. McCain is steering it that way. He will try and focus on how Obama's plans will skyrocket taxes across the board in many different ways. Obama will scream for change to avoid the subject.
I was thinking iraq, healthcare, taxes would be the order.
 
So you know that whole, long analysis of the Texas primary and how the bizarre rules aren't likely to favor one candidate over another? Well, guess who finally figured that out, only AFTER making winning Texas a key point of her remaining strategy?!? :eek:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...competence.html

Competence

18 Feb 2008 03:28 am

by hilzoy

From the Washington Post (emphasis added, and stolen from publius):

"Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

What Clinton aides discovered is that in certain targeted districts, such as Democratic state Sen. Juan Hinojosa's heavily Hispanic Senate district in the Rio Grande Valley, Clinton could win an overwhelming majority of votes but gain only a small edge in delegates. At the same time, a win in the more urban districts in Dallas and Houston -- where Sen. Barack Obama expects to receive significant support -- could yield three or four times as many delegates.

"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem.""
When I read this, I dissolved in giggles after the first sentence. It was that part about the Texas delegate selection rules "creating a new obstacle for her" that got me. In what sense are the Texas rules a "new obstacle?" Were they only recently passed? Not as far as I can tell -- here, for instance, is a pdf about them from August 2007, which should have given the Clinton campaign ample time to get up to speed. While I was having fun thinking of possible analogies -- would I describe the existence of the Pacific Ocean as "creating a new obstacle" for my plan to walk from Baltimore to Beijing? or the fact that five is a prime number as "creating a new obstacle" to my proving that it is a multiple of two? --my co-blogger publius was actually writing the post I might have written, only funnier:
"Good lord, let’s see if I have this right. The Clinton campaign decides to cede every post-Super Tuesday state to Obama under the theory that Texas and Ohio will be strong firewalls. After – after – implementing this Rudy-esque strategy, they “discovered” that the archaic Texas rules will almost certainly result in a split delegate count (at best).

While they were busy “discovering” the rules, however, the Obama campaign had people on the ground in Texas explaining the system, organizing precincts, and making Powerpoints. I know because I went to one of these meetings a week ago. I should have invited Mark Penn I suppose. (ed. Maybe foresight is an obsolete macrotrend.)"
Note to self: If I ever run for office and base my campaign on the idea that I am ready to lead from day one, I must remember to actually run an effective campaign.
:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:
This was my favorite part:
"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem.""
Where was this kind of talk when they were defending the superdelagate system?
 
So you know that whole, long analysis of the Texas primary and how the bizarre rules aren't likely to favor one candidate over another? Well, guess who finally figured that out, only AFTER making winning Texas a key point of her remaining strategy?!? :eek:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...competence.html

Competence

18 Feb 2008 03:28 am

by hilzoy

From the Washington Post (emphasis added, and stolen from publius):

"Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

What Clinton aides discovered is that in certain targeted districts, such as Democratic state Sen. Juan Hinojosa's heavily Hispanic Senate district in the Rio Grande Valley, Clinton could win an overwhelming majority of votes but gain only a small edge in delegates. At the same time, a win in the more urban districts in Dallas and Houston -- where Sen. Barack Obama expects to receive significant support -- could yield three or four times as many delegates.

"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem.""
When I read this, I dissolved in giggles after the first sentence. It was that part about the Texas delegate selection rules "creating a new obstacle for her" that got me. In what sense are the Texas rules a "new obstacle?" Were they only recently passed? Not as far as I can tell -- here, for instance, is a pdf about them from August 2007, which should have given the Clinton campaign ample time to get up to speed. While I was having fun thinking of possible analogies -- would I describe the existence of the Pacific Ocean as "creating a new obstacle" for my plan to walk from Baltimore to Beijing? or the fact that five is a prime number as "creating a new obstacle" to my proving that it is a multiple of two? --my co-blogger publius was actually writing the post I might have written, only funnier:
"Good lord, let’s see if I have this right. The Clinton campaign decides to cede every post-Super Tuesday state to Obama under the theory that Texas and Ohio will be strong firewalls. After – after – implementing this Rudy-esque strategy, they “discovered” that the archaic Texas rules will almost certainly result in a split delegate count (at best).

While they were busy “discovering” the rules, however, the Obama campaign had people on the ground in Texas explaining the system, organizing precincts, and making Powerpoints. I know because I went to one of these meetings a week ago. I should have invited Mark Penn I suppose. (ed. Maybe foresight is an obsolete macrotrend.)"
Note to self: If I ever run for office and base my campaign on the idea that I am ready to lead from day one, I must remember to actually run an effective campaign.
:mellow: :lmao: :lmao:
This is really a key point. Hillary keeps talking about being ready "on Day 1" - but who's run a better campaign - her or Obama? Anyone who says Hillary clearly has their head in the sand. If you keep botching up your campaign, how are you going to be ready "on Day 1?"
I'm not buying that she ceded the post Super Tuesday states. She campaigned for - and lost - every contest. At first she kept trying to dismiss the states importnace, after the fact, but the pundits and commentators caught on to that nonsense in short order.I will agree that her campaign has been a mess of complaining and whining from day one. After Iowa she and Bill said repeatedly that they needed more time in New Hampshire. In Nevada they complained that the caucus rules were unfair even though they had been established for months and no one complained at the time. The came the complaining about Florida and Michigan even though they agreed to the penalties on the states at the beginning of the campaign. Now she's whining that Obama won't debate her (again) and accusing him of running negative ads.

I hope the establishment, the superdelegates, and, most importantly, the voters get sick of hearing the Clintons.

I hope their support just completely crumbles and dissolves.

I hope it turns into an Obama landslide.

 
The tax issue is shaping up to be the #1 issue in the election. McCain is steering it that way. He will try and focus on how Obama's plans will skyrocket taxes across the board in many different ways. Obama will scream for change to avoid the subject.
Eff no, why would we want to pay off the $9 trillion debt we have. Seriously, do you not pay your credit card bills or mortgage payment because it's "socialist" or something? The talk about not raising taxes to the pre-Bush cut levels is the most ridiculous argument ever...ever.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is really a key point. Hillary keeps talking about being ready "on Day 1" - but who's run a better campaign - her or Obama? Anyone who says Hillary clearly has their head in the sand. If you keep botching up your campaign, how are you going to be ready "on Day 1?"
On one of the weekend news shows, one of the commentators made the point on the issue of executive experience that, by far, the largest organization any of the three major contendors have run in their careers are their respective presidential campaigns. As far as the Democratic race goes, there is no question that Obama has been the far superior in running his organization. He has made almost no mistakes and has never gotten rattled. Additionally, depsite his youth, Obama has demonstrated the temperament under stress that we would want from a chief executive.
 
So you know that whole, long analysis of the Texas primary and how the bizarre rules aren't likely to favor one candidate over another? Well, guess who finally figured that out, only AFTER making winning Texas a key point of her remaining strategy?!? :eek:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...competence.html

Competence

18 Feb 2008 03:28 am

by hilzoy

From the Washington Post (emphasis added, and stolen from publius):

"Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

What Clinton aides discovered is that in certain targeted districts, such as Democratic state Sen. Juan Hinojosa's heavily Hispanic Senate district in the Rio Grande Valley, Clinton could win an overwhelming majority of votes but gain only a small edge in delegates. At the same time, a win in the more urban districts in Dallas and Houston -- where Sen. Barack Obama expects to receive significant support -- could yield three or four times as many delegates.

"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem.""
When I read this, I dissolved in giggles after the first sentence. It was that part about the Texas delegate selection rules "creating a new obstacle for her" that got me. In what sense are the Texas rules a "new obstacle?" Were they only recently passed? Not as far as I can tell -- here, for instance, is a pdf about them from August 2007, which should have given the Clinton campaign ample time to get up to speed. While I was having fun thinking of possible analogies -- would I describe the existence of the Pacific Ocean as "creating a new obstacle" for my plan to walk from Baltimore to Beijing? or the fact that five is a prime number as "creating a new obstacle" to my proving that it is a multiple of two? --my co-blogger publius was actually writing the post I might have written, only funnier:
"Good lord, let’s see if I have this right. The Clinton campaign decides to cede every post-Super Tuesday state to Obama under the theory that Texas and Ohio will be strong firewalls. After – after – implementing this Rudy-esque strategy, they “discovered” that the archaic Texas rules will almost certainly result in a split delegate count (at best).

While they were busy “discovering” the rules, however, the Obama campaign had people on the ground in Texas explaining the system, organizing precincts, and making Powerpoints. I know because I went to one of these meetings a week ago. I should have invited Mark Penn I suppose. (ed. Maybe foresight is an obsolete macrotrend.)"
Note to self: If I ever run for office and base my campaign on the idea that I am ready to lead from day one, I must remember to actually run an effective campaign.
:lmao: :wall: :eek:
This is really a key point. Hillary keeps talking about being ready "on Day 1" - but who's run a better campaign - her or Obama? Anyone who says Hillary clearly has their head in the sand. If you keep botching up your campaign, how are you going to be ready "on Day 1?"
I'm not buying that she ceded the post Super Tuesday states. She campaigned for - and lost - every contest. At first she kept trying to dismiss the states importnace, after the fact, but the pundits and commentators caught on to that nonsense in short order.I will agree that her campaign has been a mess of complaining and whining from day one. After Iowa she and Bill said repeatedly that they needed more time in New Hampshire. In Nevada they complained that the caucus rules were unfair even though they had been established for months and no one complained at the time. The came the complaining about Florida and Michigan even though they agreed to the penalties on the states at the beginning of the campaign. Now she's whining that Obama won't debate her (again) and accusing him of running negative ads.

I hope the establishment, the superdelegates, and, most importantly, the voters get sick of hearing the Clintons.

I hope their support just completely crumbles and dissolves.

I hope it turns into an Obama landslide.
As a 40 something Republican I find it hard to fathom that I'm so caught up in this Obama madness. My mom and I talked for 2 hours (we normally go about 10 minutes on the phone) after she came back from his Eau Claire rally in Wisconsin on Saturday. I'm very excited that we may finally get a President that will seemingly unite a country. I know other even stronger Republicans that are giving Obama a serious look and just their consideration of him as a viable voting option is amazing.On the other hand I'm scared of the rug getting pulled out from us by the Washington establishment. That would be like a punch in the stomach to what seems to be the populous of America. It would probably completely reshape American politics if it happened but it would still mean 4 years of some DB in the White House.

 
Above post is trash. No libertarian can support a democrat. Republicans are not much better, but the Dems are worse.ETA: Looks like crap to mis-inform and con libertarians into thinking about voting for Obama.
I agree, the government has been shrinking and civil liberties have been increasing at incredible rates under the current Republican administration. Why look elsewhere?
Where are all these civil liberties going to? I do not notice a single one. You think the government is too much now? Wait until a Dem gets a hold of it.
Can the Republican party really still claim to be the 'smaller government' party? I haven't seen evidence of that in decades.
 
This is NOT an Obama sniping post -- I am honestly curious about Obama's views on policy outside of the ME (which is ambiguous).

If Obama supporters don't feel foreign policy views (or lack of experience) are important, realize that George W. Bush came in with little experience and had not articulated his views.

Foreign Policy

Middle East

Everyone seems to have ideas about how to go about acting (or not acting) in the Middle East, so I have no desire to rehash those arguments -- this thread tries to discuss McCain's views on the ME. I think Obama's views are clear...

But what about other areas of the world? How do McCain and Obama differ on other countries and how they should be interacted with.

North Korea

This is North Korea's missile trade, and the countries it deals with.

Here are some links about how seriously McCain will take the NK situation: 1, 2, 3, 4

I didn't find anything specific on Obama's views for NK, I basically found many quotes ala the following:

This will require a new era of American diplomacy. To signal the dawn of that era, we need a President who is willing to talk to all nations, friend and foe. I’m not afraid that America will lose a propaganda battle with a petty tyrant - we need to go before the world and win those battles.
Now, I'm fine with talking, whether it be to Iran or NK; but, simply talking doesn't seem to address anything specific -- I'm all ears if anyone has anything to add on this subject.If you have any desire to read about Clinton's history with NK, you can read about it on Frontline here.

The next administration will have to deal with NK as it truly is. not how they with it to be in an ideal world -- I'll take McCain's views and expertise in this area.

Russia

This has major relevance not only because it's our old Cold War adversary, but because Kosovo just claimed independent (with Russia/Serbia doing everything it can to stop them). Naturally, the ongoing oil games in the Caspian/Caucuses will necessitate some vigilance as well. And, naturally, Missile Defense will play a role.

McCain on Russia

One of McCain's noteworthy quotes on Russia is:

"I looked into Putin's eyes and I saw three letters -- a K, a G and a B,"
A quote taken from the Moscow Times says the following:
"If I'm in the Kremlin, he's not my No. 1 candidate," Andrew Kuchins, head of the Russia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said of McCain.
Obama/Clinton -- I really couldn't find anything with regards to Obama on Russia other than basic non-proliferation remarks. I am open to reading more if anyone has anything relevant re: Russia - Obama.While it may seem like I'm bashing Obama, I'm not. While I'm for McCain, I admire and respect Obama. I merely didn't find anything relevant of Obama's views other than basic non-proliferation quotes.

Some caveats:

- If foreign policy doesn't matter to you in the least, than please ignore this post.

- If you'd prefer to discuss domestic issues (and to ignore the realities of the world that the next admin will have to deal with) ignore this post.

But, if someone could please succinctly tell me his real views/strategies (other than merely talking), I would really love to hear about it. If Obama supporters don't feel foreign policy views (or lack of experience) are important, realize that George W. Bush came in with little experience and had not articulated his views.

 
higgins said:
This is NOT an Obama sniping post -- I am honestly curious about Obama's views on policy outside of the ME (which is ambiguous).

If Obama supporters don't feel foreign policy views (or lack of experience) are important, realize that George W. Bush came in with little experience and had not articulated his views.

Foreign Policy

Middle East

Everyone seems to have ideas about how to go about acting (or not acting) in the Middle East, so I have no desire to rehash those arguments -- this thread tries to discuss McCain's views on the ME. I think Obama's views are clear...

But what about other areas of the world? How do McCain and Obama differ on other countries and how they should be interacted with.

North Korea

This is North Korea's missile trade, and the countries it deals with.

Here are some links about how seriously McCain will take the NK situation: 1, 2, 3, 4

I didn't find anything specific on Obama's views for NK, I basically found many quotes ala the following:

This will require a new era of American diplomacy. To signal the dawn of that era, we need a President who is willing to talk to all nations, friend and foe. I’m not afraid that America will lose a propaganda battle with a petty tyrant - we need to go before the world and win those battles.
Now, I'm fine with talking, whether it be to Iran or NK; but, simply talking doesn't seem to address anything specific -- I'm all ears if anyone has anything to add on this subject.If you have any desire to read about Clinton's history with NK, you can read about it on Frontline here.

The next administration will have to deal with NK as it truly is. not how they with it to be in an ideal world -- I'll take McCain's views and expertise in this area.

Russia

This has major relevance not only because it's our old Cold War adversary, but because Kosovo just claimed independent (with Russia/Serbia doing everything it can to stop them). Naturally, the ongoing oil games in the Caspian/Caucuses will necessitate some vigilance as well. And, naturally, Missile Defense will play a role.

McCain on Russia

One of McCain's noteworthy quotes on Russia is:

"I looked into Putin's eyes and I saw three letters -- a K, a G and a B,"
A quote taken from the Moscow Times says the following:
"If I'm in the Kremlin, he's not my No. 1 candidate," Andrew Kuchins, head of the Russia program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies, said of McCain.
Obama/Clinton -- I really couldn't find anything with regards to Obama on Russia other than basic non-proliferation remarks. I am open to reading more if anyone has anything relevant re: Russia - Obama.While it may seem like I'm bashing Obama, I'm not. While I'm for McCain, I admire and respect Obama. I merely didn't find anything relevant of Obama's views other than basic non-proliferation quotes.

Some caveats:

- If foreign policy doesn't matter to you in the least, than please ignore this post.

- If you'd prefer to discuss domestic issues (and to ignore the realities of the world that the next admin will have to deal with) ignore this post.

But, if someone could please succinctly tell me his real views/strategies (other than merely talking), I would really love to hear about it. If Obama supporters don't feel foreign policy views (or lack of experience) are important, realize that George W. Bush came in with little experience and had not articulated his views.
I remember GW talking about foreign policy during his campaign, and most all of what he said was rendered obsolete a few months after he took office. But I don't think it's accurate to equate a lack of details with horrible policy. He's stated his ideals, his approach, and much of that comes from using the global community to solve these problems and solving them through diplomacy.I imagine many of the problems people now think are current problems will be eclipsed by developments in the world over the next 4 years. We need someone with an open mind, political skills, and the judgment and ability to respond to new situations with wisdom and discretion. Obama will be that type of president.

Here is a link to Obama's foreign policy statements and policies. Let me know what you think about what is posted there.

 
I remember GW talking about foreign policy during his campaign, and most all of what he said was rendered obsolete a few months after he took office. But I don't think it's accurate to equate a lack of details with horrible policy. He's stated his ideals, his approach, and much of that comes from using the global community to solve these problems and solving them through diplomacy.

I imagine many of the problems people now think are current problems will be eclipsed by developments in the world over the next 4 years. We need someone with an open mind, political skills, and the judgment and ability to respond to new situations with wisdom and discretion. Obama will be that type of president.

Here is a link to Obama's foreign policy statements and policies. Let me know what you think about what is posted there.
Again, I'm not sniping; but, you know the bolded part how exactly? :pleasedonttellmeitsyourgutfeel:Thanks for the link -- it doesn't cite specifics, but:

hopefully he's in the realist camp;
thankfully, he's on record as being behind Israel;
being for non-proliferation is pretty much saying "I approve of breathable Oxygen".
 
adonis,

I'm too lazy to do it, but it might be worth setting up a separate thread to address any bogus and/or real criticisms of Obama. Like the muslim thing, the work he did for the shady real estate guy, etc.

 
Obama says he probably should have credited Mass. governor for lines he used

NILES, Ohio - Sen. Barack Obama said Monday that he doesn't think it's a big deal that he borrowed lines from his friend Massachusetts Gov. Deval Patrick, although he probably should have given him credit.

Patrick said during his gubernatorial campaign a year and a half ago that words matter, like "I have a dream" and "all men are created equal."

Obama used the same lines Saturday night in Wisconsin. Obama said that Patrick suggested he use the lines to respond to Hillary Rodham Clinton's suggestion that Obama is more of a talker than a doer.

Clinton spokesman Howard Wolfson accused Obama of plagiarizing Patrick, and that's particularly troubling since Obama's appeal is based in large part on his rhetorical skills.

"It raises questions about the premise of his candidacy," Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.

Obama, D-Ill., says that's going too far.

"Now hold on a second. Let's see — I've written two books, wrote most of my speeches," Obama told reporters at a news conference after touring a titanium plant.

"I'm happy to give Deval credit, as I give credit to a lot people for spurring all kinds of ideas," he said. "But I think that it is fair to say that everything that we've been doing in generating excitement and the interest that people have in the election is based on the core belief in me that we need change in America."

Asked whether he wished he would have given him credit given the criticism he's facing, Obama responded: "I was on the stump, and he had suggested that we use these lines. I thought they were good lines. I'm sure I should have — didn't this time."

"I really don't think this is too big of a deal," he said. He said he's noticed Clinton using his phrases sometimes, like "it's time to turn the page" and "fired up, ready to go."

Obama focused on the economy during his trip to this economically depressed manufacturing region of Ohio. He promised he would end tax breaks for companies which move jobs overseas and use the money to give tax breaks to companies who invest in the United States.

At his news conference, Obama also said he didn't expect any immediate endorsement from John Edwards after his secret meeting with his former rival yesterday. "I think he's still mulling things over," Obama said.

___

On the Net:

http://www.barackobama.com

I wish Obama would use his own lines, I like him better when he is saying ahh, ohhh etc.

 
Man, your campaign may be in full-on meltdown if . . .
Are you suggesting that Obama's campaign in somehow in crisis?
I am suggesting the campaign that keeps dragging out and harping on irrelevant, inconsequential minutae now that it is behind in the polls is in full-on meltdown.The best part about this is that I was honestly worried about this phase of the campaign. A relative lull, with Hillary really losing steam and Obama gaining momentum. If Obama has any skeletons (and all politicians do), I knew they would come out now. The Clintons are experts at this stuff. So far we've got a nuclear bill (that Hillary praised and co-sponsored :D ) and some lines from a speech his buddy gave. Seriously, if this is the best they come up with Obama really may be the untouchable candidate. :lmao:
 
So you know that whole, long analysis of the Texas primary and how the bizarre rules aren't likely to favor one candidate over another? Well, guess who finally figured that out, only AFTER making winning Texas a key point of her remaining strategy?!? :lmao:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_...competence.html

Competence

18 Feb 2008 03:28 am

by hilzoy

From the Washington Post (emphasis added, and stolen from publius):

"Supporters of Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton are worried that convoluted delegate rules in Texas could water down the impact of strong support for her among Hispanic voters there, creating a new obstacle for her in the must-win presidential primary contest.

Several top Clinton strategists and fundraisers became alarmed after learning of the state's unusual provisions during a closed-door strategy meeting this month, according to one person who attended.

What Clinton aides discovered is that in certain targeted districts, such as Democratic state Sen. Juan Hinojosa's heavily Hispanic Senate district in the Rio Grande Valley, Clinton could win an overwhelming majority of votes but gain only a small edge in delegates. At the same time, a win in the more urban districts in Dallas and Houston -- where Sen. Barack Obama expects to receive significant support -- could yield three or four times as many delegates.

"What it means is, she could win the popular vote and still lose the race for delegates," Hinojosa said yesterday. "This system does not necessarily represent the opinions of the population, and that is a serious problem.""
When I read this, I dissolved in giggles after the first sentence. It was that part about the Texas delegate selection rules "creating a new obstacle for her" that got me. In what sense are the Texas rules a "new obstacle?" Were they only recently passed? Not as far as I can tell -- here, for instance, is a pdf about them from August 2007, which should have given the Clinton campaign ample time to get up to speed. While I was having fun thinking of possible analogies -- would I describe the existence of the Pacific Ocean as "creating a new obstacle" for my plan to walk from Baltimore to Beijing? or the fact that five is a prime number as "creating a new obstacle" to my proving that it is a multiple of two? --my co-blogger publius was actually writing the post I might have written, only funnier:
"Good lord, let’s see if I have this right. The Clinton campaign decides to cede every post-Super Tuesday state to Obama under the theory that Texas and Ohio will be strong firewalls. After – after – implementing this Rudy-esque strategy, they “discovered” that the archaic Texas rules will almost certainly result in a split delegate count (at best).

While they were busy “discovering” the rules, however, the Obama campaign had people on the ground in Texas explaining the system, organizing precincts, and making Powerpoints. I know because I went to one of these meetings a week ago. I should have invited Mark Penn I suppose. (ed. Maybe foresight is an obsolete macrotrend.)"
Note to self: If I ever run for office and base my campaign on the idea that I am ready to lead from day one, I must remember to actually run an effective campaign.
:thumbup: :lmao: :lmao:
This is really a key point. Hillary keeps talking about being ready "on Day 1" - but who's run a better campaign - her or Obama? Anyone who says Hillary clearly has their head in the sand. If you keep botching up your campaign, how are you going to be ready "on Day 1?"
I'm not buying that she ceded the post Super Tuesday states. She campaigned for - and lost - every contest. At first she kept trying to dismiss the states importnace, after the fact, but the pundits and commentators caught on to that nonsense in short order.I will agree that her campaign has been a mess of complaining and whining from day one. After Iowa she and Bill said repeatedly that they needed more time in New Hampshire. In Nevada they complained that the caucus rules were unfair even though they had been established for months and no one complained at the time. The came the complaining about Florida and Michigan even though they agreed to the penalties on the states at the beginning of the campaign. Now she's whining that Obama won't debate her (again) and accusing him of running negative ads.

I hope the establishment, the superdelegates, and, most importantly, the voters get sick of hearing the Clintons.

I hope their support just completely crumbles and dissolves.

I hope it turns into an Obama landslide.
As a 40 something Republican I find it hard to fathom that I'm so caught up in this Obama madness. My mom and I talked for 2 hours (we normally go about 10 minutes on the phone) after she came back from his Eau Claire rally in Wisconsin on Saturday. I'm very excited that we may finally get a President that will seemingly unite a country. I know other even stronger Republicans that are giving Obama a serious look and just their consideration of him as a viable voting option is amazing.On the other hand I'm scared of the rug getting pulled out from us by the Washington establishment. That would be like a punch in the stomach to what seems to be the populous of America. It would probably completely reshape American politics if it happened but it would still mean 4 years of some DB in the White House.
:goodposting: I'll vote Obama if he gets the nod, otherwise it's anyone the Republicans put up there. I hope some day in my lifetime to see a woman President in the White house, but not Hillary Clinton. That lady is a snake in the grass. I'm sure the dems owe here for putting up with Bill's shenanigans like she did, but that's no basis for running our country.

 
"It raises questions about the premise of his candidacy," Wolfson told reporters in a conference call.
That's rich.
I'm actually embarrassed for them.
:goodposting:It is actually getting harder and harder for me to hate Hillary, truth be told. To watch something that someone wants so desparately, with every ounce of their being, slowly slipping away from them is hard to watch. We, of course, have no idea what the final outcome will be, but right now Hillary no doubt sees what we see, which is a rival campaign that has caught fire like few others ever have. If things start to go further south, god knows what she will do.
 
I suspect this has been addressed somewhere either in this thread or in the FFA, but I'm too lazy to search right now. Can I get a quick summary of what happens if neither candidate reaches the necessary number of delegates required to receive the nomination? This is looking very probable according to what I've been reading. TIA

 
I suspect this has been addressed somewhere either in this thread or in the FFA, but I'm too lazy to search right now. Can I get a quick summary of what happens if neither candidate reaches the necessary number of delegates required to receive the nomination? This is looking very probable according to what I've been reading. TIA
Smoke-Monster-filled room.
 

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