NCCommish
Footballguy
I am luke warm to a Powell endorsement at best. But I do agree that Powell won't base his decision entirely on skin color. However I can't help but think that factors in somewhere. Even if it is the smallest factor.
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*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter adonis
- Start date
jaybebo
Footballguy
Going commando today, are we?
jaybebo
Footballguy
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Powell will endorse Obama because of ideals, not race.Also because it's the best retribution against the neo-cons for railroading
into supporting the failed Iraq war.
.
NCCommish
Footballguy
And no where no time in that decisiion making will race creep in? I find that very hard to believe. I am not faulting anyone for that as long as it isn't the only or the primary reason. But I don't believe it won't be at least a part of the reason.
D_House
Footballguy
Is it part of the reason that you are supporting Obama?
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NCCommish
Footballguy
No and I do not share his race. Nor was I born in a country that until not that long ago historically denied rights to people of my race.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
I honestly believe that Colin Powell is a man of principle.Race is NOT a factor, imo.
.
The Juggernaut
The Man. The Myth
Are you not white?
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
To have a military man of Powell's stature endorsing Obama would be HUGE, larger than any other personal endorsement I can think of.
It would put the nail in the McCain coffin.
.
D_House
Footballguy
I don't think it's fair to argue that race will factor into Powell's vote any more than it would factor into yours.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
thank you.
NCCommish
Footballguy
And I think it's supremely naive to think it doesn't have some weight. Again I am not saying Powell will endorse him exclusively because he is black. I imagine that's far down the list. But I bet it is on the list.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Wish he would have showed it when it would have made a real difference.
Ron_Mexico
I Love Doggies
Why do you stand by this ?This makes very little sense given the political, and idealisticvalues held by each of the candidates..
H Jass
Footballguy
Human nature.
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
See Hugh's post.Ron_Mexico said:
The Juggernaut
The Man. The Myth
Heck, I'm a white guy and Obama's being black is on my list of positives. It's down a bit on the list, but it's a few slots above his IPod playlist.NCCommish said:
the moops
Footballguy
Same here.
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skol asylum
Footballguy
I don't have much respect for Colin Powell since he went to the UN and threw his priniciples under the bus pushing obviously bogus intel (ex aluminum tubes) to get the UN to buy into the US invasion of Iraq.
BigSteelThrill
Footballguy
Thats okay, I have plenty of respect for CP, enough to cover us both.
The Juggernaut
The Man. The Myth
flufhed
Footballguy
$100 sent. It had been quite a while since I sent anything.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
bigbottom
Footballguy
Yawn. I want to see Obama sit down with O'Reilly.
NCCommish
Footballguy
That would be fun
NCCommish
Footballguy
Exactly.NCCommish said:Human nature.
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
I'd love every minute of it.NCCommish said:
Orange Crush
Footballguy
Evangelicals for Obama?
being run on Christian radio.I'm curious to hear other's reactions to this. I don't know if I'm happy that the Republicans are having this technique turned against them, or upset that both parties now seem to think that there should be a religious test for the White House.
being run on Christian radio.I'm curious to hear other's reactions to this. I don't know if I'm happy that the Republicans are having this technique turned against them, or upset that both parties now seem to think that there should be a religious test for the White House.
NCCommish
Footballguy
That wasn't meant for evangelicals IMO. That was meant for mainstream protestants who don't like who Bush and Co have cuddled up with and the image they project of Christianity.
Orange Crush
Footballguy
I'm not sure I understand the difference, and I would probably have to see some data about which stations this ad is being played on even after getting a crash course on the different religious categories out there. But from a quick search, I saw that this group was formed as an outreach to "young evangelicals and catholics" and it's being run by the person who was in charge of religious outreach for the Kerry/Edwards campaign. That doesn't really speak well to her bona fides, but she probably has a lot more to work with this time around.
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well Catholics woudl fit squarely in the mainstream demographic I referred to. And IIRC there has been a generational split developing amongst evangelicals and how they view their place in politics. I really think this will be more a more effective ad amongst those who think Pat Robertson makes Christians look bad.
The Commish
Footballguy
Among others NCC. I agree with you. This wasn't reaching for those on the far right. Seemed to be directed at people like me who are tired of people hiding behind religion because it's easier to do that than just come out and say they don't like <insert issue here>.
bigbottom
Footballguy
There are plenty of evangelicals who think this.
NCCommish
Footballguy
I am sure there are. Would you say they are in a majority position or minority? Would you think it would be fair to say that Robertson enjoys robust support within the evangelical community?
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Boggles my mind that Robertson would still be considered relevant on any level.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Not sure. But I am confident that there has been a decent shift from minority toward majority in the last four or five years. I think evangelicals are far less homogenous than they used to be. And playing this ad on Christian radio is certainly meant to target this grwoing segment of more tolerant evangelicals (or at least ones who care about issues other than abortion and gay marriage).
NCCommish
Footballguy
My bet woudl be the younger the evangelical the less likely they are to support a Robertson(or whoever is in that ilk). But then I mentioned this growing split earlier in the thread.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Makes sense. I was responding to your assertion that the ad wasn't actually targeting evangelicals. To me, the content of the ad, not to mention the fact that it is being played on Christian radio, indicates to me that it is clearly targeted at evangelicals. Obama's making a serious run at peeling off evangelical support. This is helped by the fact that McCain is about as comfortable discussing faith as he is hugging George Bush.
the moops
Footballguy
Someone mentioned earlier about Colin Powell.
I could see a landslide victory if Obama was to pick him as his running mate...if one thing were to happen.
If Powell came out and said he was wrong about Iraq, and that Bush et al, led everyone down the wrong path and he was here as Obabm's running mate to correct old wrongs.
It would help Obama's image as a uniter and show people he will reach across the aisle, even for something as important as vice president.
How could I not vote for two black guys.
I could see a landslide victory if Obama was to pick him as his running mate...if one thing were to happen.
If Powell came out and said he was wrong about Iraq, and that Bush et al, led everyone down the wrong path and he was here as Obabm's running mate to correct old wrongs.
It would help Obama's image as a uniter and show people he will reach across the aisle, even for something as important as vice president.
How could I not vote for two black guys.
adonis
Footballguy
You'd be voting for two white guys at the same time!
NCCommish
Footballguy
Well more than evangelicals listen to Christian radio though. But I agree in general with what you got here. Expecially the McCain part. But really he shouldn't have to discuss it. It is a private matter between him and his god, or no god, as he sees fit. But those days are over. Since one party has been branded godless by the other it is going to be with us ad infinitum, ad nausem.
the moops
Footballguy
Don't tell me that. I may have to change my mind.
bigbottom
Footballguy
Agree 100%
New politics? Standard for a candidate to move to the center? Change in Washington? Flip flopping views? America needs change? Alienating your base after the primary?
Do all of these comprise one big oxymoron to all of you?
**
Obama faces online backlash for centrist views
Barack Obama is facing a rebellion from the liberal blogosphere that helped him lock up the Democratic presidential nomination.
In recent days, Obama has criticized the Supreme Court for saying that child rapists cannot be executed and refused to oppose a decision knocking down a handgun ban. He announced a plan to support "faith-based" social work and said he would vote for a bill giving immunity to telephone companies that allowed warrantless wiretapping of their customers.
Those centrist positions may help woo swing voters, but they infuriated some of Obama's core supporters. Nearly 12,000 of them have formed an online group on Obama's presidential campaign website, urging him to vote against the domestic wiretapping bill.
"When a candidate decides to move to the center, he shouldn't move away from us," said Mike Stark, a University of Virginia law student who started the online mutiny.
Democratic blogs are flaying Obama's plan to vote for the wiretapping bill, said Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, founder of a leading liberal blog, Daily Kos. He's withholding a planned donation to Obama as a result.
"It's sort of a defining issue right now. It's huge," he said.
Moving to the political center is a common strategy in a general election campaign: candidates try to appeal to swing voters by moderating their more partisan primary stances.
Moulitsas said Obama's critics will still support him in November.
While Lee Miringoff, director of the Marist Poll, agrees that "his base is not going to flee," he warns that Obama runs a risk "anytime he moves from new-style politics. .. to something that has a scent of old school politics."
Arianna Huffington, founder of the liberal blog The Huffington Post, said Obama's centrist moves won't work — just as they didn't for John Kerry in 2004. Instead, she said, Obama should continue to try to draw in new voters as he did in the primaries. "This is the winning strategy for him: to appeal to the 83 million people who did not vote in '04."
Obama, rated last year as the most liberal senator by the non-partisan National Journal magazine, said he supports the domestic wiretapping bill because it is "a compromise that, while far from perfect, is a marked improvement" over a previous version. His aides insist Obama is not tempering his positions.
"Over the course of his career, Barack Obama has made decisions not on party or politics, but on what he thinks is best for America," spokesman Hari Sevugan says.
Some political strategists, however, note Obama is making a calculated shift to win over voters in a country where neither major party claims a majority.
"His supporters should understand this," said Emory University political scientist Merle Black. "He needs to reach out."
Democratic pollster Celinda Lake doesn't think there's any political risk for Obama. "The progressive voters really dislike John McCain," she said. "That should keep them on board."
Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Vermont independent who votes with Democrats and considers himself a Socialist, didn't deny that he sensed a shift in Obama's tone, but refused to criticize his colleague, whom he is supporting "enthusiastically."
Still, Sanders offered advice to Obama's critics.
"They should be organizing a grassroots movement," he said, "so it will be easier for Obama to stand up to the wealthy and powerful special interests who are going to be pushing him the other way."
Do all of these comprise one big oxymoron to all of you?
**
Obama faces online backlash for centrist views
Barack Obama is facing a rebellion from the liberal blogosphere that helped him lock up the Democratic presidential nomination.
In recent days, Obama has criticized the Supreme Court for saying that child rapists cannot be executed and refused to oppose a decision knocking down a handgun ban. He announced a plan to support "faith-based" social work and said he would vote for a bill giving immunity to telephone companies that allowed warrantless wiretapping of their customers.
Those centrist positions may help woo swing voters, but they infuriated some of Obama's core supporters. Nearly 12,000 of them have formed an online group on Obama's presidential campaign website, urging him to vote against the domestic wiretapping bill.
"When a candidate decides to move to the center, he shouldn't move away from us," said Mike Stark, a University of Virginia law student who started the online mutiny.
Democratic blogs are flaying Obama's plan to vote for the wiretapping bill, said Markos Moulitsas Zuniga, founder of a leading liberal blog, Daily Kos. He's withholding a planned donation to Obama as a result.
"It's sort of a defining issue right now. It's huge," he said.
Moving to the political center is a common strategy in a general election campaign: candidates try to appeal to swing voters by moderating their more partisan primary stances.
Moulitsas said Obama's critics will still support him in November.
While Lee Miringoff, director of the Marist Poll, agrees that "his base is not going to flee," he warns that Obama runs a risk "anytime he moves from new-style politics. .. to something that has a scent of old school politics."
Arianna Huffington, founder of the liberal blog The Huffington Post, said Obama's centrist moves won't work — just as they didn't for John Kerry in 2004. Instead, she said, Obama should continue to try to draw in new voters as he did in the primaries. "This is the winning strategy for him: to appeal to the 83 million people who did not vote in '04."
Obama, rated last year as the most liberal senator by the non-partisan National Journal magazine, said he supports the domestic wiretapping bill because it is "a compromise that, while far from perfect, is a marked improvement" over a previous version. His aides insist Obama is not tempering his positions.
"Over the course of his career, Barack Obama has made decisions not on party or politics, but on what he thinks is best for America," spokesman Hari Sevugan says.
Some political strategists, however, note Obama is making a calculated shift to win over voters in a country where neither major party claims a majority.
"His supporters should understand this," said Emory University political scientist Merle Black. "He needs to reach out."
Democratic pollster Celinda Lake doesn't think there's any political risk for Obama. "The progressive voters really dislike John McCain," she said. "That should keep them on board."
Sen. Bernie Sanders, a Vermont independent who votes with Democrats and considers himself a Socialist, didn't deny that he sensed a shift in Obama's tone, but refused to criticize his colleague, whom he is supporting "enthusiastically."
Still, Sanders offered advice to Obama's critics.
"They should be organizing a grassroots movement," he said, "so it will be easier for Obama to stand up to the wealthy and powerful special interests who are going to be pushing him the other way."
TheAristocrat
Footballguy
We should talk about Obamamania in the Oxygen forums everyone! Join me there!
adonis
Footballguy
I must admit, I've lost some of my passion for the cause as the election has gone on. Towards the end with Hillary, his campaign seems to be more run of the mill than I had hoped.
I don't think it's necessarily all that bad, but the newness is really gone, and his campaign is being run much like campaigns in the past, albeit very efficiently and strategically.
I'm not saying I'm changing my mind about him, but I just wonder how much change someone can really bring during a campaign where he's under such scrutiny for every word, every appearance, every phrase. Does our system allow a candidate to be himself in a campaign, or does the constant assault and media attention necessitate this kind of campaign?
I'll just hope that Obama is like a space shuttle, and this campaign is just the part of the ship that is used to launch him into space, and after he's cleared the atmosphere, it drops off and returns to earth and then he's free to steer on his own. Anyway, just thought it was interesting. As it heats back up, I might get more interested, but for now I'm still a supporter, just that a lot of excitement is gone.
I don't think it's necessarily all that bad, but the newness is really gone, and his campaign is being run much like campaigns in the past, albeit very efficiently and strategically.
I'm not saying I'm changing my mind about him, but I just wonder how much change someone can really bring during a campaign where he's under such scrutiny for every word, every appearance, every phrase. Does our system allow a candidate to be himself in a campaign, or does the constant assault and media attention necessitate this kind of campaign?
I'll just hope that Obama is like a space shuttle, and this campaign is just the part of the ship that is used to launch him into space, and after he's cleared the atmosphere, it drops off and returns to earth and then he's free to steer on his own. Anyway, just thought it was interesting. As it heats back up, I might get more interested, but for now I'm still a supporter, just that a lot of excitement is gone.
Of course not.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
An often spoken axiom about the election process is that the campaign for the nomination is always run to the outside and then the general election is a race back to the middle. The frustrating thing for many Obama supporters, including me, is that his message was already resonating with independent voters. In fact many fiscally conservative leaning people have gravitated towards him with his primaries platform. I think he is off message right now and I think, despite what his strategists are no doubt telling him, that he is presently hurting his election chances.
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