flufhed
Footballguy
Wait, this is a joke, right?wow if this president thing doesn't work out Obama's got a great future as a tv minister/faith healer
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*** Official Barack Obama FBG campaign headquarters *** (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter adonis
- Start date
The Commish
Footballguy
I'm wondering why the Obama camp would give in to Hillary's whining and allow her to be listed as a "nominee" at the convention??
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Because Obama is only polling at 83% support right now among Democrats, compared to 87% of Republicans for McCain, and the percentage is even lower (72%) among Hillary supporters. He doesn't have a great play here IMO, but having her listed at the convention is probably the lesser of two evils to putting her on the ticket.
Sammy3469
Footballguy
and plus I don't think it really matters...no one will really be watching until Obama's speech Thursday night anyway.
flufhed
Footballguy
The Commish
Footballguy
Makes sense I suppose....I guess my question is just an illustration of how little I trust the Clinton machine.
Gopher State
Footballguy
Some Clinton backers refuse to embrace Obama despite unity theme at Democratic convention
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER , Associated Press
Last update: August 14, 2008 - 12:10 PM
WASHINGTON - Still sore from an epic primary battle, some of Hillary Rodham Clinton's supporters aren't buying the unity theme planned for the Democratic National Convention.
They weren't mollified when nominee-in-waiting Barack Obama gave prime-time speaking slots to Clinton and her husband, the former president. Instead, they're itching for a fight and plan to wage one in Denver.
One group intends to paper the city with fliers, promote a video detailing what they contend were irregularities in the nominating process and unleash bloggers to give their take on the proceedings. Another group has purchased newspaper advertisements demanding that Clinton be included in a roll-call vote for the nomination. Obama and Clinton announced Thursday that there will be such a vote.
"I am a very realistic woman," said Diane Mantouvalos, co-founder of the Just Say No Deal Coalition. "I don't think that anything is going to change, but I do think it is important to be heard, and this is our way of doing it."
Some of the disaffected Clinton supporters are open to supporting Obama; many are not.
Obama needs Clinton's supporters to beat Republican John McCain. Polls show that he has won over most of them. But some simply don't like Obama or still feel Clinton was treated unfairly during the primaries.
These groups are not affiliated with Clinton, who has endorsed Obama and campaigned for him. Representatives from the Clinton and Obama campaigns said they are working to unify the party because Obama will champion issues important to Clinton supporters, such as reforming health care, improving the economy and ending the war in Iraq.
"Senator Clinton understands and appreciates that there are supporters who remain passionate, but she has repeatedly urged her supporters to vote for Senator Obama," Clinton spokeswoman Kathleen Strand said.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi took a swipe at the Clinton diehards Wednesday.
"I think Hillary Clinton has been very gracious," the San Francisco Democrat told Bay Area talk show host Ronn Owens. "I think some of her supporters have been less than gracious."
Nevertheless, many Clinton activists plan to voice their discontent in Denver.
Mantouvalos, a Miami public relations consultant, said her network is renting a 5,000-square-foot loft in Denver for its bloggers. Another outfit called The Denver Group is planning a reception the evening Hillary Clinton speaks at the convention. The group has been pushing for Clinton's name to be placed in nomination.
In announcing that her name will be placed in nomination, Clinton said she hopes the vote will unite the party and lead to an Obama victory in November.
Heidi Li Feldman, co-founder of The Denver Group, said the roll call vote is necessary for Obama to get her support. But, she said, it's insufficient.
"The only way a Democratic Party will have the credibility to elect a Democrat in November is if the party uses a legitimate process to choose its nominee," said Heidi Li Feldman, co-founder of The Denver Group. "We are not per se a Clinton support group, we are a Democratic Party get-your-act-together support group."
The movement has grown on the Internet, where bloggers and readers complain that Clinton was cheated out of the party's nomination. The Web site for Just Say No Deal links to dozens of other sites criticizing Obama or supporting Clinton.
Some accuse Obama of manipulating party caucuses for extra delegates while others complain that Clinton was the victim of sexist party leaders or was mistreated by the media. Many vent over the way the party divvied up delegates from the Florida and Michigan primaries, two states that were punished for violating national rules and holding their contests early.
With the agreement of all Democratic candidates, the states were initially stripped of all their delegates for violating party rules by holding early primaries. None of the candidates campaigned in the two states, but Clinton won the two primaries and thereafter tried to get all the delegates seated.
The national party reinstated the delegates in May, but gave each a half vote. And it awarded Obama some Michigan delegates, although he had taken his name off that ballot because of the party's initial decision.
With the nomination clinched, Obama said this month that he would seek to give both delegations full voting rights.
At the very least, the activists want Clinton's name put in nomination, with a full roll-call vote. Some won't be satisfied unless Clinton is declared the nominee — an unlikely prospect. Others would be happy if Clinton were asked to run for vice president — also unlikely.
Feldman, a Georgetown University law professor, said she is a loyal Democrat who won't vote for McCain, but Obama hasn't won her support. Will Bower, co-founder of the Just Say No Deal Coalition, said he would only support the Democratic candidate if her name is Clinton.
"I have been voting Democratic for 18 years. I only voted for Democrats, from dog catcher to president and everything in between," said Bower, who lives in Washington. "I will be voting for someone other than Barack Obama come November."
Interesting story, their still is a lot healing needed between the Obama and Clinton camps. I know many Obama supporters make fun of Hillary, but Obama really needs the Hillary supporters if he's going to win in November, and if Obama and his camp don't realize that lol
___
By STEPHEN OHLEMACHER , Associated Press
Last update: August 14, 2008 - 12:10 PM
WASHINGTON - Still sore from an epic primary battle, some of Hillary Rodham Clinton's supporters aren't buying the unity theme planned for the Democratic National Convention.
They weren't mollified when nominee-in-waiting Barack Obama gave prime-time speaking slots to Clinton and her husband, the former president. Instead, they're itching for a fight and plan to wage one in Denver.
One group intends to paper the city with fliers, promote a video detailing what they contend were irregularities in the nominating process and unleash bloggers to give their take on the proceedings. Another group has purchased newspaper advertisements demanding that Clinton be included in a roll-call vote for the nomination. Obama and Clinton announced Thursday that there will be such a vote.
"I am a very realistic woman," said Diane Mantouvalos, co-founder of the Just Say No Deal Coalition. "I don't think that anything is going to change, but I do think it is important to be heard, and this is our way of doing it."
Some of the disaffected Clinton supporters are open to supporting Obama; many are not.
Obama needs Clinton's supporters to beat Republican John McCain. Polls show that he has won over most of them. But some simply don't like Obama or still feel Clinton was treated unfairly during the primaries.
These groups are not affiliated with Clinton, who has endorsed Obama and campaigned for him. Representatives from the Clinton and Obama campaigns said they are working to unify the party because Obama will champion issues important to Clinton supporters, such as reforming health care, improving the economy and ending the war in Iraq.
"Senator Clinton understands and appreciates that there are supporters who remain passionate, but she has repeatedly urged her supporters to vote for Senator Obama," Clinton spokeswoman Kathleen Strand said.
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi took a swipe at the Clinton diehards Wednesday.
"I think Hillary Clinton has been very gracious," the San Francisco Democrat told Bay Area talk show host Ronn Owens. "I think some of her supporters have been less than gracious."
Nevertheless, many Clinton activists plan to voice their discontent in Denver.
Mantouvalos, a Miami public relations consultant, said her network is renting a 5,000-square-foot loft in Denver for its bloggers. Another outfit called The Denver Group is planning a reception the evening Hillary Clinton speaks at the convention. The group has been pushing for Clinton's name to be placed in nomination.
In announcing that her name will be placed in nomination, Clinton said she hopes the vote will unite the party and lead to an Obama victory in November.
Heidi Li Feldman, co-founder of The Denver Group, said the roll call vote is necessary for Obama to get her support. But, she said, it's insufficient.
"The only way a Democratic Party will have the credibility to elect a Democrat in November is if the party uses a legitimate process to choose its nominee," said Heidi Li Feldman, co-founder of The Denver Group. "We are not per se a Clinton support group, we are a Democratic Party get-your-act-together support group."
The movement has grown on the Internet, where bloggers and readers complain that Clinton was cheated out of the party's nomination. The Web site for Just Say No Deal links to dozens of other sites criticizing Obama or supporting Clinton.
Some accuse Obama of manipulating party caucuses for extra delegates while others complain that Clinton was the victim of sexist party leaders or was mistreated by the media. Many vent over the way the party divvied up delegates from the Florida and Michigan primaries, two states that were punished for violating national rules and holding their contests early.
With the agreement of all Democratic candidates, the states were initially stripped of all their delegates for violating party rules by holding early primaries. None of the candidates campaigned in the two states, but Clinton won the two primaries and thereafter tried to get all the delegates seated.
The national party reinstated the delegates in May, but gave each a half vote. And it awarded Obama some Michigan delegates, although he had taken his name off that ballot because of the party's initial decision.
With the nomination clinched, Obama said this month that he would seek to give both delegations full voting rights.
At the very least, the activists want Clinton's name put in nomination, with a full roll-call vote. Some won't be satisfied unless Clinton is declared the nominee — an unlikely prospect. Others would be happy if Clinton were asked to run for vice president — also unlikely.
Feldman, a Georgetown University law professor, said she is a loyal Democrat who won't vote for McCain, but Obama hasn't won her support. Will Bower, co-founder of the Just Say No Deal Coalition, said he would only support the Democratic candidate if her name is Clinton.
"I have been voting Democratic for 18 years. I only voted for Democrats, from dog catcher to president and everything in between," said Bower, who lives in Washington. "I will be voting for someone other than Barack Obama come November."
Interesting story, their still is a lot healing needed between the Obama and Clinton camps. I know many Obama supporters make fun of Hillary, but Obama really needs the Hillary supporters if he's going to win in November, and if Obama and his camp don't realize that lol
___
kaa
Footballguy
Actually there is historical evidence that after a major equities burst, the public gravitates towards real estate. Its a flight to safety. In fact, I remember many expert investment gurus predicting that had to be next bubble well before it happened. In other words, a housing crisis was going to happen no matter what anyone did. A commodity bubble should be next, as people now flee both equities AND housing. Of course this implies that for example the rise of gold from $200-$1000 is not a bubble, and it isn't. Its the rise from $1000 to like $10,000 or $30,000 that is the bubble.cstu said:In fact, it was the lack of regulation that led to the mortgage crisis we are going through (thanks to McCain's GB Phil Gramm).
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commisholio
Come out with your pants down!
If you don't think deregulated investment markets and a lack of oversight of the resale of repackaged sercuritized mortagages played a major role in letting the real estate bubble getting as big as it did, you're even more wrong than you usually are.Actually there is historical evidence that after a major equities burst, the public gravitates towards real estate. Its a flight to safety. In fact, I remember many expert investment gurus predicting that had to be next bubble well before it happened. In other words, a housing crisis was going to happen no matter what anyone did. A commodity bubble should be next, as people now flee both equities AND housing.cstu said:In fact, it was the lack of regulation that led to the mortgage crisis we are going through (thanks to McCain's GB Phil Gramm).
kaa
Footballguy
Here is an interesting blog post I found elsewhere musing on the veep choice. He offers some ancillary evidence that it could be Wesley Clark at the 11th hour. Obama could be pushed into picking Clark due to the suddenly-high visibility of Putin in the press these days. Voters might gravitate to war veteran McCain over Obama who is bereft of military experience. And yes, bereft is the word of the day.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/8/13/34926/2585
Could Gen. Wesley Clark Be the Veep Pick?
By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:49:00 AM EST
The Vice Presidential candidate speaks at the Democratic Convention on Wednesday night. The theme that night is "Securing America's Future."
So the VP candidate is someone who fits with that theme. Also, according to another report I read elsewhere, miltary veterans are part of the night's theme.
Could Gen. Wesley Clark be back in the ballgame? His organization is Securing America's Future, the same name as the night's theme.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/vpwatch/2008/0...-vps-theme.html
Wes Clark's Slogan is VP's Theme
By Jonathan Allen | August 11, 2008 12:21 PM
Gen. Wes Clark's slogan -- "Securing America's Future" -- is the theme for the night Barack Obama's running mate is scheduled to speak at the Democratic National Convention.
Clark's political action committee is called WESPAC -- Securing America's Future.
It could just be a coincidence. After all, Clark appeared to dash his hopes of running with Obama in late June when he said getting shot down in Vietnam did not qualify John McCain to be president.
But if Obama believes Clark has strong enough military credentials to snipe at McCain effectively, he might still be in the mix.
On Monday, Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and Obama adviser Anita Dunn announced the themes for the various nights of the convention, including "Securing America's Future" for the third night, when the vice presidential candidate will speak.
When asked whether the thematic choices could be read as an indication that the VP pick would be someone with a strong background on veterans issues, according to CQ reporter Marie Horrigan, Sebelius said that nothing should be read into that.
"Every potential vice presidential choice also has a speaking slot and so nothing should be read into themes or issues or ideas," Sebelius said.
An Obama spokesman did not immediately return a call seeking comment about the coincidence of the VP night theme and Clark's slogan, and Obama has refused to speculate publicly about who he will choose. He told supporters this weekend that he would inform them of his choice by text message and e-mail.
Clark narrowly won CQ's VP Madness earlier this year.
http://www.talkleft.com/story/2008/8/13/34926/2585
Could Gen. Wesley Clark Be the Veep Pick?
By Jeralyn, Section Elections 2008
Posted on Wed Aug 13, 2008 at 08:49:00 AM EST
The Vice Presidential candidate speaks at the Democratic Convention on Wednesday night. The theme that night is "Securing America's Future."
So the VP candidate is someone who fits with that theme. Also, according to another report I read elsewhere, miltary veterans are part of the night's theme.
Could Gen. Wesley Clark be back in the ballgame? His organization is Securing America's Future, the same name as the night's theme.
http://blogs.cqpolitics.com/vpwatch/2008/0...-vps-theme.html
Wes Clark's Slogan is VP's Theme
By Jonathan Allen | August 11, 2008 12:21 PM
Gen. Wes Clark's slogan -- "Securing America's Future" -- is the theme for the night Barack Obama's running mate is scheduled to speak at the Democratic National Convention.
Clark's political action committee is called WESPAC -- Securing America's Future.
It could just be a coincidence. After all, Clark appeared to dash his hopes of running with Obama in late June when he said getting shot down in Vietnam did not qualify John McCain to be president.
But if Obama believes Clark has strong enough military credentials to snipe at McCain effectively, he might still be in the mix.
On Monday, Kansas Gov. Kathleen Sebelius and Obama adviser Anita Dunn announced the themes for the various nights of the convention, including "Securing America's Future" for the third night, when the vice presidential candidate will speak.
When asked whether the thematic choices could be read as an indication that the VP pick would be someone with a strong background on veterans issues, according to CQ reporter Marie Horrigan, Sebelius said that nothing should be read into that.
"Every potential vice presidential choice also has a speaking slot and so nothing should be read into themes or issues or ideas," Sebelius said.
An Obama spokesman did not immediately return a call seeking comment about the coincidence of the VP night theme and Clark's slogan, and Obama has refused to speculate publicly about who he will choose. He told supporters this weekend that he would inform them of his choice by text message and e-mail.
Clark narrowly won CQ's VP Madness earlier this year.
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Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
kaa
Footballguy
I thought it was bizarre that the democrats couldn't figure out a way to run a general for president in 2004. The democrat party is a political machine. Their function is to win elections. Surely, the machine should realize that war can happen, and if it does, they need to be ready with a general they can run as a war candidate? Yet, no general on the ticket in 04, and Obama actually has no military experience whatsoever. The republicans nominated McCain, who comes from a long line of admirals in the US navy, and served in the navy himself. A guy that many thought could have been an admiral. That's the type of pick you expect in the modern world.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Is it? The challenges we face econmically adjusting to a multi-polar world are far greater than ay we face militarily. The British Empire didn't fall on the battlefield; it fell when it became an increasingly smaller part of the World economy that it was once the center of. That is the real danger the US faces, and a military background isn't going to prepare anyone to defend it.
kaa
Footballguy
That's probably something close to what the democrat party thinks. But I think its silly to just concede the war issue like that. "commander-in-chief" is a component of being president, unlike being a congressperson. Voters factor it in. That's why the red phone at 3 AM ad is effective.
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
shining path
:prettyplease:
Tapping Clark as VP would be a dumb idea.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
And in 2000 and 2004 they chose General Bush. Why can't the Democrats figure this out?
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I'd tap him.
The Juggernaut
The Man. The Myth
Monkey Cage or Turkey Club?
kaa
Footballguy
Obama was a dumb idea, but, it didn't stop anyone.
adonis
Footballguy
Hillary won didn't she?
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
I think so. Gopher State will be attending her convention.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
Don't joke - it's happening.
kaa
Footballguy
And some dems wonder why their party is perceived by many as soft on foreign policy. Its practically an insult to the left to suggest putting a general on the ticket, as if its a barbaric idea best left to the 1950s.
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Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Joke?
Homer J Simpson
I don't push
kaa
Footballguy
Nice little comment from little green footballs
Obama Calls for UN to Pass Resolution Condemning Russia, Forgets Russia Has UNSC Veto
Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 5:55:12 pm PST
An astoundingly bone-headed statement from Barack Obama today, as he calls for the United Nations Security Council to pass a resolution condemning Russia’s invasion of Georgia.
Memo to the Obama campaign: Russia has veto power in the United Nations Security Council.
Oops!
Obama is just out of his depth. I don't see why people think he should be CIC.
Obama Calls for UN to Pass Resolution Condemning Russia, Forgets Russia Has UNSC Veto
Mon, Aug 11, 2008 at 5:55:12 pm PST
An astoundingly bone-headed statement from Barack Obama today, as he calls for the United Nations Security Council to pass a resolution condemning Russia’s invasion of Georgia.
Memo to the Obama campaign: Russia has veto power in the United Nations Security Council.
Oops!
Obama is just out of his depth. I don't see why people think he should be CIC.
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shining path
:prettyplease:
Solid analysis from LGF.
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
NorvilleBarnes
Footballguy
I'd give it a Bronze.
kaa
Footballguy
Obama may need a big bounce from naming a veep and the convention to stave off an utter collapse in the polls soon. The dam looks about ready to burst. Rasmussen shows Colorado flipping into McCain's corner by 1 point. The state of Washintgon is getting very interesting, as Obama's once enormous 16 point lead continues to collapse and he's only up 7 there now. And the state of Minnesota has gotten very close. Where Rasmussen once had Obama up 13, Obama now leads only by 4.
Obama has an awful lot of fires to put out, nevermind trying to capture other states. This McCain landslide win could already be taking shape. I just don't know what he can do. He's obviously is not in tune with the american people, which means everytime he speaks, he drives more people away. Image can only get you so far.
Obama has an awful lot of fires to put out, nevermind trying to capture other states. This McCain landslide win could already be taking shape. I just don't know what he can do. He's obviously is not in tune with the american people, which means everytime he speaks, he drives more people away. Image can only get you so far.
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kaa
Footballguy
No, this is going to be a landslide for McCain. Barack Obama has said some horrible things. The public in the end just won't vote for him. Kerry and Gore -- they never attacked white people as a class, or assailed gun owners or religious people. This guy is just horrible. There's no other way to say it. At best, the media can try to sweep it under the rug, but that's just isn't going to work. People are going to know and its really going to matter.If there was any doubt about a McCain landslide, it had to be erased when Obama goes on this whirlwind tour of Europe, with glowing media coverage, and he comes home and his poll numbers are crumbling. That's TERRIBLE CANDIDATE staring at you right in the face. Period. Only an absolutely terrible candidate, with no ability to connect with voters, winds up with a result like that. He can't fix it because if he goes out and gives some more speeches, it'll drive the numbers even lower. And if he hides in Hawaii, his numbers still fall. Maybe adding a fresh face like a veep candidate could help a little, I dunno.
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Bottomfeeder Sports
Footballguy
Doesn't the Free Market require rational decisions? Is throwing your investment dollars into a market where the bubble is going to burst rational? Do you remember the threads from a couple of years where anyone that predicted that it "had to be next bubble" was treated like NCC's Iraqi war post in 2003? Do you remember how anyone with a traditional fixed rate mortgage that wasn't leveraging every penny of equity was a fool? In other words not only did those gravitating to the latest "fools gold" behave irrationally, those that were behaving rationally were scoffed and mocked for their foolishness. And, now we once again bail out the connected robber barons and tell the average Joe that just didn't want to be the fool left behind that they should suffer from economic Darwinism as this continues to all blows up. Yet we expect the markets to be a place of rational decision making?
Obama now a 62-38 favorite at InTrade.
Mr. Pickles
Footballguy
Fennis
Footballguy
I may have to hedge what I think is best for the country with buying a McCain win.
The Z Machine
Footballguy
Yes, modern world = military leader. You're once again spot on, Goldenboy.
kaa
Footballguy
The current trend towards McCain is more relevant than a swing towards Obama that faded away long ago. And even more interesting is the trend towards the republican candidate every autumn.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Arsenal of Doom
Footballguy
Some information about Capital Gains taxes, which John McCain keeps claiming is one of the ways that Obama will raise Taxes on millions of "middle income" Americans. Obama's tax plan only raises the the rate to 20% on individual filers making 200k plus and joint filers (families) making 250k. Let's assume everyone falls into the 200k bracket though, and look at data from the Tax Policy Center on who pays capital gains.
Using 2006 data, returns with an Adjusted Gross Income of $200k or more accounted for 3% of all 138.3 Million returns, or about 4.1 Million total return that would qualify for the higher rate.
Breaking that down further, 2.7% of returns had an AGI between $200k - $1M, and 53.9% of those returns actually reported capital gains. So about 2.01M returns in that income grouping would have paid the higher rate. .3% of returns had an AGI >$1M, with 76.3 of those returns reporting capital gains adding .317M returns.
In total ~2.33 Million out of 138.3 Million returns would have actually paid more capital gains taxes under Obama's plan, or just under 1.7%. That 1.7% also accounted for 82.6% of all claimed capital gains in 2006.
For the record, I also believe that we need to do something to address the corporate tax rate by either lowering it, allowing a dividend paid deduction, or both. The US used to have one of the lowest corporate tax rates and now has one of the highest, and it has generally been accounting for a lower and lower percent of total revenue.
Using 2006 data, returns with an Adjusted Gross Income of $200k or more accounted for 3% of all 138.3 Million returns, or about 4.1 Million total return that would qualify for the higher rate.
Breaking that down further, 2.7% of returns had an AGI between $200k - $1M, and 53.9% of those returns actually reported capital gains. So about 2.01M returns in that income grouping would have paid the higher rate. .3% of returns had an AGI >$1M, with 76.3 of those returns reporting capital gains adding .317M returns.
In total ~2.33 Million out of 138.3 Million returns would have actually paid more capital gains taxes under Obama's plan, or just under 1.7%. That 1.7% also accounted for 82.6% of all claimed capital gains in 2006.
For the record, I also believe that we need to do something to address the corporate tax rate by either lowering it, allowing a dividend paid deduction, or both. The US used to have one of the lowest corporate tax rates and now has one of the highest, and it has generally been accounting for a lower and lower percent of total revenue.
Unlucky
Phenom
Just wait until these two go head to head in a live TV debate. McCain will tell us that nations don't invade other nations and that he'll cut taxes for everyone and balance the budget at the same time, while drilling offshore will instantly lower gas prices to $2.00/gallon.
I know things look worse for Obama than they did a few weeks ago, but I'm confident that McCain will get exposed once he has to appear on the same TV screen as Barack.
I do wish Obama would go on the attack a bit more. He doesn't have to slander and lie like McCain, but at least get out there and attack the B.S. coming from McCain.
I know things look worse for Obama than they did a few weeks ago, but I'm confident that McCain will get exposed once he has to appear on the same TV screen as Barack.
I do wish Obama would go on the attack a bit more. He doesn't have to slander and lie like McCain, but at least get out there and attack the B.S. coming from McCain.
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