*** OFFICIAL *** Barry Bonds : MLB All-time HR Leader (1 Viewer)

[ThisGuy]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

 

[ThisGuy]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You cannot take away his physical attributes. You can, however, make a strong case that his power #'s should have declined since his late 30's. Bonds was already assured of his spot in Cooperstown PRIOR to his first needle. ARod will own this record in the next 7 years anyway.

 

[parasaurolophus]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You cannot take away his physical attributes. You can, however, make a strong case that his power #'s should have declined since his late 30's. Bonds was already assured of his spot in Cooperstown PRIOR to his first needle. ARod will own this record in the next 7 years anyway.

I still dont get how people are 100% convinced Arod will break this record yet are convinced he didnt juice.If everything being thrown around about Bonds is true. Arod should be in all out decline mode in 3-4 years.He has a great shot, but he is hardly a lock.

 

[posty]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You cannot take away his physical attributes. You can, however, make a strong case that his power #'s should have declined since his late 30's. Bonds was already assured of his spot in Cooperstown PRIOR to his first needle. ARod will own this record in the next 7 years anyway.

I still dont get how people are 100% convinced Arod will break this record yet are convinced he didnt juice.If everything being thrown around about Bonds is true. Arod should be in all out decline mode in 3-4 years.He has a great shot, but he is hardly a lock.

Thank you! Someone finally with some reason...Heck, Ken Griffey Jr was a lock to break Aaron's record and then look at the injuries that hit him...

 

[ThisGuy]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You cannot take away his physical attributes. You can, however, make a strong case that his power #'s should have declined since his late 30's. Bonds was already assured of his spot in Cooperstown PRIOR to his first needle. ARod will own this record in the next 7 years anyway.

I still dont get how people are 100% convinced Arod will break this record yet are convinced he didnt juice.If everything being thrown around about Bonds is true. Arod should be in all out decline mode in 3-4 years.He has a great shot, but he is hardly a lock.

Thank you! Someone finally with some reason...Heck, Ken Griffey Jr was a lock to break Aaron's record and then look at the injuries that hit him...

While it will be more difficult without cheating, he is still in great position to beat this record.On the conservative side, let's say he averages 35hr a year for the next 5 years...that put's him at 675, at age 37; 80 away from the record. (Chances are, he'll hit a few more hr's ths year and more than 35 at least a couple of years) Barring injury, AROD will play into his 40's because the guy stays in great shape and stands to earn another $200million to keep him that way.Unlike Bonds, ARod has 7 40+ HR seasons to his credit prior to his 30th birthday...or 6 more than Bonds had prior to his 30th birthday. This is good enough to me to make me less suspicious of ARod than Bonds.

 

[1huskerfan]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You did NOT just go there.

 

[1huskerfan]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You cannot take away his physical attributes. You can, however, make a strong case that his power #'s should have declined since his late 30's. Bonds was already assured of his spot in Cooperstown PRIOR to his first needle. ARod will own this record in the next 7 years anyway.

I still dont get how people are 100% convinced Arod will break this record yet are convinced he didnt juice.If everything being thrown around about Bonds is true. Arod should be in all out decline mode in 3-4 years.He has a great shot, but he is hardly a lock.

Thank you! Someone finally with some reason...Heck, Ken Griffey Jr was a lock to break Aaron's record and then look at the injuries that hit him...

While it will be more difficult without cheating, he is still in great position to beat this record.On the conservative side, let's say he averages 35hr a year for the next 5 years...that put's him at 675, at age 37; 80 away from the record. (Chances are, he'll hit a few more hr's ths year and more than 35 at least a couple of years) Barring injury, AROD will play into his 40's because the guy stays in great shape and stands to earn another $200million to keep him that way.Unlike Bonds, ARod has 7 40+ HR seasons to his credit prior to his 30th birthday...or 6 more than Bonds had prior to his 30th birthday. This is good enough to me to make me less suspicious of ARod than Bonds.

Unlike Bonds ARod started juicing in his 20's.

 

[Ike Turner]

So what are the records that aren't tainted?

Ripkens streak

Ryans no-hitters

VanDeMeer's back to back no-hitters

Guess that's a good start.

 

[ThisGuy]

So what are the records that aren't tainted?Ripkens streakRyans no-hittersVanDeMeer's back to back no-hittersGuess that's a good start.

Dimaggio's 56

 

[ThisGuy]

Unlike Bonds ARod started juicing in his 20's.

Are you sure it wasn't High School?

 

[1huskerfan]

So what are the records that aren't tainted?

Ripkens streak

Ryans no-hitters

VanDeMeer's back to back no-hitters

Guess that's a good start.

Unless you believe the Kevin Costner story.

 

[dparker713]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

 

[posty]

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Not yet... He is still behind 287-285...

 

[dparker713]

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Not yet... He is still behind 287-285...

He owns the modern record, just not all time.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Wrong record, wrong player. This record was celebrated.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You did NOT just go there.

Warmer summer means more homeruns. (High humidity summers means even more.) No one is debating that temperature have been slightly warmer the last 20 years or so, just why that has happened. So this observation need not be political.

 

[posty]

#757 last night...

 

[dparker713]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Wrong record, wrong player. This record was celebrated.

So, I guess Pete Rose. I personally think greenies are a similar problem as steroids, maybe not as bad, but similar. Not sure how he's connected to a steroid conviction though. But what really matters to me is that Rose showed appreciation to the fans and played with passion. He wasn't just a flat out jerk to everyone. Bonds always has been.

 

[dparker713]

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You did NOT just go there.

Warmer summer means more homeruns. (High humidity summers means even more.) No one is debating that temperature have been slightly warmer the last 20 years or so, just why that has happened. So this observation need not be political.

Actually, this only really helps in cold weather stadiums at the beginning and end of the season. Players bodies perform better in the heat than they do the cold. During the summer, higher humidity in both the air and the balls will not increase HR totals, infact it has the opposite effect.

 

[Tough As Nails]

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You did NOT just go there.

Warmer summer means more homeruns. (High humidity summers means even more.) No one is debating that temperature have been slightly warmer the last 20 years or so, just why that has happened. So this observation need not be political.

During the summer, higher humidity in both the air and the balls will not increase HR totals, infact it has the opposite effect.

MYTH: CONFIRMED on the Mythbusters' Baseball Special. Humidity has a negative effect on the distance a baseball travels.

 

[1huskerfan]

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

You did NOT just go there.

Warmer summer means more homeruns. (High humidity summers means even more.) No one is debating that temperature have been slightly warmer the last 20 years or so, just why that has happened. So this observation need not be political.

Actually, the MST of the Earth has gone down the past 9 years. No one tells you that, they just change the name from 'global warming' to 'climate crisis'.There's a reason it won't be debated publicly--- Al Gore won't be able to sell his carbon credits if their is no crisis.

 

[1huskerfan]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Wrong record, wrong player. This record was celebrated.

So, I guess Pete Rose. I personally think greenies are a similar problem as steroids, maybe not as bad, but similar. Not sure how he's connected to a steroid conviction though. But what really matters to me is that Rose showed appreciation to the fans and played with passion. He wasn't just a flat out jerk to everyone. Bonds always has been.

Greenies, Lasix, elective Tommy John surgery

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Wrong record, wrong player. This record was celebrated.

So, I guess Pete Rose. I personally think greenies are a similar problem as steroids, maybe not as bad, but similar. Not sure how he's connected to a steroid conviction though. But what really matters to me is that Rose showed appreciation to the fans and played with passion. He wasn't just a flat out jerk to everyone. Bonds always has been.

That's fine, except being an ### doesn't make you a cheater.

 

[dparker713]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Wrong record, wrong player. This record was celebrated.

So, I guess Pete Rose. I personally think greenies are a similar problem as steroids, maybe not as bad, but similar. Not sure how he's connected to a steroid conviction though. But what really matters to me is that Rose showed appreciation to the fans and played with passion. He wasn't just a flat out jerk to everyone. Bonds always has been.

That's fine, except being an ### doesn't make you a cheater.

Well, Bonds is a cheater. But cheating and baseball, hell all of pro atheletics, go hand in hand. Sure there are degrees, but if you honestly think that Rose's record doesn't have a taint in many people eyes you're dead wrong. One of the biggest differences here is that while we know Bonds has cheated, he's still playing and posting numbers.

 

[1huskerfan]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

If you mean Biggio, then you're way off base. And the only MLB record he owns is HBP.

Wrong record, wrong player. This record was celebrated.

So, I guess Pete Rose. I personally think greenies are a similar problem as steroids, maybe not as bad, but similar. Not sure how he's connected to a steroid conviction though. But what really matters to me is that Rose showed appreciation to the fans and played with passion. He wasn't just a flat out jerk to everyone. Bonds always has been.

That's fine, except being an ### doesn't make you a cheater.

Well, Bonds is a cheater. But cheating and baseball, hell all of pro atheletics, go hand in hand. Sure there are degrees, but if you honestly think that Rose's record doesn't have a taint in many people eyes you're dead wrong. One of the biggest differences here is that while we know Bonds has cheated, he's still playing and posting numbers.

Him and half of MLB.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Well, Bonds is a cheater. But cheating and baseball, hell all of pro atheletics, go hand in hand. Sure there are degrees, but if you honestly think that Rose's record doesn't have a taint in many people eyes you're dead wrong. One of the biggest differences here is that while we know Bonds has cheated, he's still playing and posting numbers.

Tainted from gambling? MaybeTainted from using drugs?

Tainted from writing his name in the lineup when there were better options for his team?

 

[Hov34]

*

 

[greenroom]

Well, Bonds is a cheater. But cheating and baseball, hell all of pro atheletics, go hand in hand. Sure there are degrees, but if you honestly think that Rose's record doesn't have a taint in many people eyes you're dead wrong. One of the biggest differences here is that while we know Bonds has cheated, he's still playing and posting numbers.

Tainted from gambling? MaybeTainted from using drugs?

Tainted from writing his name in the lineup when there were better options for his team?

And that is the funny thing. Rose admits to taking greenies which were and are illegal and do help your performance. Heck even Hank Aaron if memory serves me correct as taking greenies. The HUGE difference is media coverage. Had you put Aaron under the same media I wonder if we would be saying how great he is.

 

[dparker713]

Well, Bonds is a cheater. But cheating and baseball, hell all of pro atheletics, go hand in hand. Sure there are degrees, but if you honestly think that Rose's record doesn't have a taint in many people eyes you're dead wrong. One of the biggest differences here is that while we know Bonds has cheated, he's still playing and posting numbers.

Tainted from gambling? MaybeTainted from using drugs?

Tainted from writing his name in the lineup when there were better options for his team?

And that is the funny thing. Rose admits to taking greenies which were and are illegal and do help your performance. Heck even Hank Aaron if memory serves me correct as taking greenies. The HUGE difference is media coverage. Had you put Aaron under the same media I wonder if we would be saying how great he is.

Well, amphetemines are pills that alot larger percentage of the population has taken, so that has something to do with it. The huge difference is really the perception of the individual drugs. I still say alot of this comes down to Bonds being an ###. Americans are a forgiving sort, and eventually some guys will come out and apologize and be let off the hook. But Barry's ego will never allow himself to admit any culpability. Fact is, we got used to steroids in football, we'll get used to steroids in baseball, but we'll never embrace a self centered, aloof, and abrasive person that never displays any remorse.

 

[posty]

758

 

[Koya]

Leave it to Bonds to make Pete Rose NOT look like a total jerk.

And of course... *

 

[Statorama]

758

They should have tested him right at home plate after that last one. I can't believe it, but the guy looks even bigger than before.

 

[1huskerfan]

Well, Bonds is a cheater. But cheating and baseball, hell all of pro atheletics, go hand in hand. Sure there are degrees, but if you honestly think that Rose's record doesn't have a taint in many people eyes you're dead wrong. One of the biggest differences here is that while we know Bonds has cheated, he's still playing and posting numbers.

Tainted from gambling? MaybeTainted from using drugs?

Tainted from writing his name in the lineup when there were better options for his team?

And that is the funny thing. Rose admits to taking greenies which were and are illegal and do help your performance. Heck even Hank Aaron if memory serves me correct as taking greenies. The HUGE difference is media coverage. Had you put Aaron under the same media I wonder if we would be saying how great he is.

In the 70's you'd be hard pressed to find an everyday player who WASN'T taking greenies.

 

[greenroom]

758

They should have tested him right at home plate after that last one. I can't believe it, but the guy looks even bigger than before.

Huge like Neifi Perez? Arod is looking kind huge as well. And Clemens is about as big as I can remember

 

[Hov34]

758

* *

 

[posty]

Bonds crushes #759 against Tim Hudson yesterday...

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

Well, Bonds is a cheater. But cheating and baseball, hell all of pro atheletics, go hand in hand. Sure there are degrees, but if you honestly think that Rose's record doesn't have a taint in many people eyes you're dead wrong. One of the biggest differences here is that while we know Bonds has cheated, he's still playing and posting numbers.

Tainted from gambling? MaybeTainted from using drugs?

Tainted from writing his name in the lineup when there were better options for his team?

And that is the funny thing. Rose admits to taking greenies which were and are illegal and do help your performance. Heck even Hank Aaron if memory serves me correct as taking greenies. The HUGE difference is media coverage. Had you put Aaron under the same media I wonder if we would be saying how great he is.

In the 70's you'd be hard pressed to find an everyday player who WASN'T taking greenies.

In the 90's you'd be hard pressed to find an everyday player who WASN'T taking steroids.

.... Had you put Aaron under the same media I wonder if we would be saying how great he is.

Aaron was treated much like Roger Maris as few mentioned his pursuit of the record without also defining why he wasn't worthy of Babe's record.

 

[posty]

Sets a new MLB HR record with his 760th HR of his career...

 

[cobalt_27]

I was bored and thought I'd be someone other that posty who posts here. Like anyone cares about this thread or how many HRs Bonds hits. Hank's still the HR king until someone breaks his mark.

 

[dutch]

I was bored and thought I'd be someone other that posty who posts here. Like anyone cares about this thread or how many HRs Bonds hits. Hank's still the HR king until someone breaks his mark.

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/player...p;sortByStat=HR

 

[Hov34]

I was bored and thought I'd be someone other that posty who posts here. Like anyone cares about this thread or how many HRs Bonds hits. Hank's still the HR king until someone breaks his mark.

http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/historical/player...p;sortByStat=HR *

fixed

 

[posty]

#761 last night during a 2-for-4 effort...

 

[posty]

Bomb number #762 last night...

 

[Hov34]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

Good. You seem to understand that this record's taint is not so unique. Like most records it happened because a bunch of factors (including baseball looking the other way when it came to its own rules - steroids, the strike zone, new smaller ball parks, new higher altitude cities, "global warming", new baseballs, etc., etc.) came together to create a period of time when a feat that is generally next to possible became probable (read the Bill James article in the 1999 STATS Baseball Scorecard). This is all that happened.

Did you just go "global warming"?

 

[Greco]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

I was thinking Cal Ripken.

 

[Ayok]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

But of course, those following the Orioles would understand that this is simply not the case. He was certainly not as prolific as his earlier years but even in a half season at the age of 38 the guy hit .340 with 18 HRs in 330 ABs. I was thinking Cal Ripken.

 

[Bottomfeeder Sports]

... Never has a record been more hollow.

Not even close!

elaborate.

Did Bonds hang on as one of the worst offensive players at his position for four seasons to achieve the record? Did Bonds personally put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race? How would these sins rank for a player that has admitted to using performance enhancement drugs and had a reputation for introducing younger players to the medicine cabinet? A player loosely linked to a federal steroids conviction. A player that despite being loved by the media has since been exposed as having great character flaws. Would this player's major career record be above the kind of tainting that Bond's record has?

Are you talkinga bout Pete Rose or Craig Biggio?If Bonds were to have aged like a normal 38 year old, would he have come close to this record? Unfortunately, we'll never know what he would have been like without his enhancers.

I was thinking Cal Ripken.

Ripken could arguably be placed in the "put his personal achievement ahead of the team goal of competiting in a pennant race" except that Ripken would argue that he never wrote his own name in the lineup instead of a better player (or to achieve the team goal of resting Ripken), the player I had in mind can't make that same argument. I don't see how Ripken can fit in any of the other statements except maybe being friends with an assumed Steroids user.