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***OFFICIAL*** Boardwalk Empire thread (2 Viewers)

"Havre de Grace" isn't the first episode this season to end with Nucky talking about wanting out, but it's an episode where he's far from the only character with that sentiment. The problem is that on this show, as in life, a great escape works much better in theory than in practice.Chalky's on the run with Daughter Maitland, winding up at the once-grand, now-decaying home of his old mentor Oscar(*), where he has to debate between going back to Atlantic City for revenge on Narcisse and Nucky (whom he understandably believes betrayed him) or disappearing from his old life forever in favor of a new one with Daughter. He ultimately settles on the latter, only to have Daughter vanish in the night, followed by Narcisse's goons showing up and killing Oscar before being killed in turn by Oscar's nephew Winston.(**)

(*) Like many DVD screeners I get, this one didn't have the final picture mix, and pretty much every scene in and around Oscar's house was so dark it was often hard to make out faces. But the second Oscar came onto the porch, I smiled at the instantly-recognizable silhouette of Louis Gossett Jr. If you're going to cast an age-appropriate actor as Chalky's gangster father figure, its hard to do better than the former Oscar winner.

(**) If Chalky survives the events of the finale, I suspect we've just met Dunn's replacement as his new sidekick.

Gillian makes her peace with both selling the Commodore's home for a pittance and letting Julia and Richard maintain custody of Tommy, all because she has designs on starting over fresh with Roy, leaving behind all relics of her horrible life to this point. But we've all suspected that Roy is too good to be true, and that turns out to be the case, as he's revealed to be a Pinkerton sent to bust Gillian for the murder of poor Roger. Not only is escape from her emotional prison impossible, but now she seems headed to a literal one.

And with some help from Gaston Bullock Means (in legal trouble yet again) and Eli's wife June, Nucky seems to have tumbled to the idea that his brother is the skunk in his cellar. (Note how he brings up the girl from eighth grade just to ensure that it wasn't the teasing that so angered Eli at dinner.) He's been looking longingly towards Florida — or some other locale unconnected from his criminal empire — for a lot of this season, and perhaps he's smart enough to outmaneuver Agent Tolliver, Narcisse, Masseria and his other enemies all at once. But I doubt things go that cleanly, and not just because the show is as likely to pack Nucky off to a comfortable semi-retirement as it is to kill him.

After the blazing guns and deal making of "White Horse Pike," "Havre de Grace" was a more muted hour — though Gillian's histrionics upon discovering Roy's true identity were as piercing as any of the bullets being fired a week ago (and beautifully shot by Allen Coulter) — as the calm before a presumed storm in the finale. No Chicago or New York this week, and only the briefest of glimpses of Washington and Tampa. The show's narrative sprawl is often very effective, but it's also nice to get an hour like this essentially focusing on three stories, especially when the one providing the episode's title provides such insight into the background of Chalky (who's arguably turned into the lead of this season, or at least its MVP).

I'm looking forward to the finale with equal levels of anticipation and dread. Based on history, the show is going to stick the landing, but I fear one or more characters I love will not be making it to season 5.
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I think this season is a significant improvement over last season just for the addition of the Libyan and the subtraction of the moronic Gyp.

 
Gotta say, not a fan of this past episode, first weak episode in quite a while for me. But the finale looks like it will be awesome.

Don't want to Monday Morning Back QB, but the long con on Gillian was pretty obvious for quite a while. I knew like 3 weeks ago that the dude was either a PI or a cop hired to pin the dead guy from last year. Some Reddit thread from a few weeks back was discussing who he was and it was pretty evident he had to be a PI after all the observations were made. But that is what I love about this show, they make it possible to predict such a twist if you are following closely, other shows, ahem Homeland ahem, can make any twist that defies logic and is not within the characters on the show, so its hard to predict.

What do we say about Nucky knowing about Knox from Eli's kid? How certain are we that Nucky knows? 99%. The way he looked at the kid when they were leaving, I sense the kid knew who Knox was, but not sure where he ever met him before, dont think he was in the brewery when he stole those beers. Maybe from the mayors office.

 
biggamer3 said:
Gotta say, not a fan of this past episode, first weak episode in quite a while for me. But the finale looks like it will be awesome.

Don't want to Monday Morning Back QB, but the long con on Gillian was pretty obvious for quite a while. I knew like 3 weeks ago that the dude was either a PI or a cop hired to pin the dead guy from last year. Some Reddit thread from a few weeks back was discussing who he was and it was pretty evident he had to be a PI after all the observations were made. But that is what I love about this show, they make it possible to predict such a twist if you are following closely, other shows, ahem Homeland ahem, can make any twist that defies logic and is not within the characters on the show, so its hard to predict.

What do we say about Nucky knowing about Knox from Eli's kid? How certain are we that Nucky knows? 99%. The way he looked at the kid when they were leaving, I sense the kid knew who Knox was, but not sure where he ever met him before, dont think he was in the brewery when he stole those beers. Maybe from the mayors office.
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Think Nucky will get the kid in a position to ID Knox. And think it might get Eli killed.

Like the idea of Chalky rolling back into town with his country squad to kick some a##.

 
I enjoyed the episode but wish it wasn't the one before the season finale. How will they do justice to all the characters in the next hour? Their should be two episodes after this one to do it properly.

I look forward to Chalky strangling "Daughter." Chalky will survive. He will finish off the doc then get up close and personal with the chick. She is not going to run off on him and capitalize.

Could see Nucky cleaning house only to have Chalky at his doorstep at the end.

 
I'll be happy if Patricia Arquette isn't part of the story moving forward. She's not the greatest actress.

Eaten by a gator next episode in a Florida swamp is my call.

 
Would be interesting if Nucky offs Eli but the kid knows. Setting up next season where the kid gets the better of Nucky as opposed to what happened with Jimmy.

 
biggamer3 said:
What do we say about Nucky knowing about Knox from Eli's kid? How certain are we that Nucky knows? 99%. The way he looked at the kid when they were leaving, I sense the kid knew who Knox was, but not sure where he ever met him before, dont think he was in the brewery when he stole those beers. Maybe from the mayors office.
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100%. At least it's 100% that he suspects it greatly. That's why he was digging in the conversations with Eli and his kid. He might still want to get the kid to ID Knox to be certain before killing his brother.

 
Shrugs said:
biggamer3 said:
What do we say about Nucky knowing about Knox from Eli's kid? How certain are we that Nucky knows? 99%. The way he looked at the kid when they were leaving, I sense the kid knew who Knox was, but not sure where he ever met him before, dont think he was in the brewery when he stole those beers. Maybe from the mayors office.
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100%. At least it's 100% that he suspects it greatly. That's why he was digging in the conversations with Eli and his kid. He might still want to get the kid to ID Knox to be certain before killing his brother.
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Nucky and the kid know something is up.

 
The Finale.....a hurt, totally pissed Chalky. Al getting some revenge and Harrod with a freaking gun in his hands!!!!!!!

This is going to be LEGENDARY!!

Giddy up,

Tex

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
Ilov80s said:
I just realized that the actor that plays J Edgar Hoover also played Betty Draper's brother in Mad Men.
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Officer Pete Malloy said:
belljr said:
tell me Eliot Ness is not the dork from Baseketball
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No idea but J. Edgar is Don Draper's ex brother-in-law and the real killer from "The Killing".
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Yep, missed that comment. The guy has one of those looks that just makes him instantly annoying. It works better with Hoover. I never understood how he could be Betty's brother. She is near perfection and he is a total dork.
 
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Does NARCISSE die on-screen in tonight's episode?

YES -300

NO +400

Mentions of "Libyans" in tonight's episode.

Under 1.5 (-200)

Over 1.5 (+160)

Does Eli die on-screen in tonight's episode?

YES +250

NO -300

Is Patricia Arquette portrayed to be attractive and sultry, despite the opposite being the case?

YES -20000

NO +30000

 
"Good said:
Does NARCISSE die on-screen in tonight's episode?

YES -300

NO +400

Mentions of "Libyans" in tonight's episode.

Under 1.5 (-200)

Over 1.5 (+160)

Does Eli die on-screen in tonight's episode?

YES +250

NO -300

Is Patricia Arquette portrayed to be attractive and sultry, despite the opposite being the case?

YES -20000

NO +30000
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No, Over, No, Yes

 
Ilov80s said:
Raider Nation said:
One of Narcisse -or- Eli will almost certainly die on screen tonight, if not both of them.
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What about Chalky or the dirty FBI agent? If Eli goes down, does his son rat him out or kill him?
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I can't see the son doing the deed himself. Nucky already knows Eli is the "skunk in his cellar" based on his behavior in this past episode. The only person we know won't be getting killed, unfortunately, is....

Mickey Doyle, if they remain historically accurate. Mickey is based on Mickey Duffy, who didn't die until 1931.
 
Though the previous three "Boardwalk" finales haven't been identical in their details, the broad strokes of all of them have involved Nucky solving most of his current problems with a mixture of cleverness and brute force. Some characters we love die (Jimmy), and some we hate (Gyp), but in the end, Nucky largely accomplishes what he sets out to do."Farewell Daddy Blues" was different. We again see that Nucky has a pretty good plan in place: 1)Cancel the meeting with New York; 2)Kill Eli for his betrayal; 3)Have Richard Harrow deal with the pesky Dr. Narcisse problem, in exchange for giving him the location of Jimmy's body to ensure Gillian's conviction; and 4)Get the hell out of this stinking city and enjoy the tropical paradise of Cuba with Sally. It still leaves his operation entangled with Joe Masseria, but that'll be Mickey Doyle's problem to sort out, no?

Only this time, virtually everything goes awry. Willie shows up right as Nucky's about to put a bullet in Eli — a bullet he arguably should have pointed his way two seasons ago, when he sided with Eli over Jimmy — forcing Nucky to spare his brother, then exile him to Chicago after Eli murders Agent Tolliver. The FBI attention cancels his travel plans, and worst of all — for our sake, if not for Nucky's — an injured, gun-shy Richard botches the hit on Narcisse, instead killing Chalky's daughter and being so frozen by this mistake that he gets fatally wounded by Narcisse's men.

It's an incredibly dark ending, and one that costs the show one of its greatest creations in Richard.

Where Jimmy's death was frustrating because there was so much possibility to his story, Richard's feels more appropriate. Since Jimmy died, he's existed on the margins of the series, kept around not because he serves some vital story function, but because Jack Huston was so marvelous at playing this unique, riveting character. Richard was defined at first by his friendship with Jimmy; with Jimmy gone, the writers found things for Richard to do, but rarely anything central. He got his big moment in the spotlight with his one-man assault on the Artemis Club in last season's finale, but that in turn created a new problem: Richard had now been shown to be so superhumanly capable with guns and combat that Nucky could just solve any problem by pointing Richard at it. Instead, the writers sent Richard out of town, made him realize he had lost the stomach for killing — because his relationships with Jimmy, Angela, Tommy and Julia had reconnected him with the humanity he thought he'd lost along with half his face — then brought him back to town for a happy, peaceful reconciliation and marriage with Julia. A Richard who goes back to being a killing machine is fun, but it's a betrayal of everything that happened to him previously in the season. At that point, he pretty much has to be written out, either with the happy ending of going to Wisconsin to unite his new family with his old one, or the tragic ending of him finally catching one bullet too many. And this is not a fundamentally happy show.

I'll miss Richard. I'll miss the economy of motion Huston played him with, and how both he and the directors understood when we needed to see Richard's good side (including the very final shot of the season), and when the painted mask would tell us everything he was feeling. Of the many colorful characters, real and invented, that "Boardwalk Empire" has given us, Richard felt the most wholly original. But perhaps it's better to say goodbye before he's turned from a man into a superhero.

And the sacrifice of Richard for now allows the show to keep both Chalky and Narcisse alive. Pretty much from the midpoint of the season, I'd been bracing myself for the eventuality that we'd be saying goodbye to either Michael Kenneth Williams or Jeffrey Wright by season's end. I understood why it would likely have to happen, but I didn't want it to. Chalky was another of the series' most vibrant characters — he essentially turned into the co-lead of season 4, shoulder-to-shoulder with Nucky in terms of screentime and importance to the narrative — and Williams was doing perhaps the best work of his impressive career this year. And Wright was just sensational as Narcisse.

The logical, predictable way to end things would have involved one man triumphing over his nemesis. Instead, Chalky suffers a horrible loss and retreats back to Oscar's house in Maryland, while Narcisse remains nominally in control of Chalky's empire, but now really a puppet of J. Edgar Hoover. There is more story to tell with these two, and I'm glad we'll get to see it.

I suppose if the season had to take out a major character, it could have been Eli. And as a Jimmy Darmody fan who would have preferred season 2 ended differently, I could have gotten on board with that idea. But this was a really strong season for Eli, as well, as his envy of his older brother wound up costing him everything. Shea Wigham plays Eli's rage so well, and the brawl with Tolliver — fought with a saw, vases and every other potentially deadly object in that drawing room — was perhaps the most savage the show has ever done. "Boardwalk" is ultimately a more stylized, glamorous show than "The Sopranos" was, but when it comes to close-quarters violence, the two shows share an aesthetic belief that it should be as ugly as is humanly possible. That thing was a whopper, and I'm all in favor of bringing more of Atlantic City to Chicago, rather than simply contriving excuses once or twice a season for Al to come to the Jersey shore.

Thanks in large part to the Chalky/Narcisse war, this was an incredibly satisfying season of "Boardwalk Empire." But I think of where we left things — Chalky in exile, Narcisse working for the feds, Nucky without a reliable second-in-command, Margaret in cahoots with Rothstein, Eli and Van Alden both having to take orders from Capone — and it makes me even more excited to speculate about next season than I feel pondering the one just finished.

Rest in peace, Richard Harrow. You deserved much better than what life gave you, but at least you found happiness and peace before the end, and died to protect what you loved.

Some other thoughts:

* I assume next season will begin with another jump in time like the previous ones have, which means we'll be deprived of seeing Eli and Van Alden's conversation in that car, and whatever negotiation they have that will keep Nelson's identity a secret from Capone. (For those who have forgotten, Eli and Nelson had several notable encounters back in the first season, and as Winter put it to me, "I don't think you ever forget Michael Shannon.")

* The Chicago stuff has largely gone down according to history, including Torrio going into retirement after a failed assassination attempt.

* We briefly see Margaret and her kids moving into the apartment Rothstein arranged. Part of her sidelining this season was for story reasons, part because of Kelly Macdonald's pregnancy. I'll be curious to see how she's incorporated into things next season. Similarly, I wonder exactly how Gillian is going to remain part of the show (which Winter says she will be) from her prison cell.

* Poor Tommy. He keeps losing everyone. Still, he's better off with Julia, and with Richard's sister and brother-in-law, than he'd have been staying with Gillian.
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I was under the impression that paranoid coked up Capone thought the initial hit was Torrio trying to take him out. The second attempt made him realize he was wrong, and he'll now go scorched earth on the rival gang responsible.

I thought the finale was good, but the Narcisse/Chalky storyline was kind of weird. If they wanted to take Narcisse out I'm not sure why Chalky would even need to be there, or why they would choose to do it in plain sight at the club. And maybe I just missed it, but I never understood how Chalky was tracked to his hideout location in the previous episode.

 
Officer Pete Malloy said:
Good Posting Judge said:
Good stuff.
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Yes. Sucks to see Harvey Dent snuff it but this show has never been to sentimental about keeping likable characters around.
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Better that than turning Harrow into Human Airwolf. 11 episodes of getting yourself into a bind, then call in Harrow-Wolf to wipe everyone out and win the day.

Historically, Torrio was not hit by Capone, it was the North siders. The line "It's Europe for me" was actually spoken by Torrio to Capone.

 
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Satisfied with that ending. Actually I really was surprised how they settled Eli, moving him to Chicago to be with his former nemesis Van Alden. Love that.

Agree that Harrow could have killed the Dr. at another point and not in a public spectacle, but this is a drama and it served the story really well to have Chalky witness the death of his daughter and have Harrow end as tragically as he began.

Where was Daughter singing at the end, was that near Atlantic City at all? Hope her story is done with.

 
UniAlias said:
I never understood how Chalky was tracked to his hideout location in the previous episode.
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I think flunky #2 at Oscar's house (the one not wearing a hat who lost at checkers in the previous episode) ratted. They made a big deal out of his exit, and he wasn't at the house when the hit men came (and killed Oscar). Oscar said something dismissive about "going to Baltimore," when the hit men arrived, which I think is where flunky #2 said he was going. I think that also might be what Oscars nephew meant when he said "I tried to tell him how it was" after Oscar was killed.

 
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So, no more Harrow, but the doctor continues into next season. It was a good episode, but that's an awful trade for us viewers.

Eli kills one fed, and than has an ex-fed come to whisk him off to Chicago.

Seems like there's a huge void in Atlantic City now. Next season should be interesting.

 
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