### Official Chris Henry Bandwagon ### (1 Viewer)

[Lord of the Rings]

I don't think he's a sleeper anymore. In the 3 rookie drafts I'm currently in he has gone: 1.6, 1.12, 2.2 and these are IDP leagues.

 

[Bob Magaw]

He was extremely impressive in college. Like I said, he has good feet and good acceleration. He's not the kind of guy who will make an incredible juke or break a 70 yard run, but he's a tough inside runner with enough agility to make quick cuts behind the line.

That is a pretty interesting observation given that all scouting profiles for White seem to indicate the exact opposite regarding his acceleration and quick cuts."Sometimes he tries to take it to the outside when he sees an opening, but that is often a mistake because he's not fast enough to cut around the corner past defenders."

http://www.pfcritics.com/draft/LenDaleWhit...utingProfil.php

"White lacks the explosiveness to shoot through the hole to get behind the defense in a flash and does not have the premier playing speed to run away from the defense on long runs and will get caught from behind in the NFL. He is not an elusive runner and will not be able to make tacklers miss in the NFL. He lacks the burst to get the corner on his own and cannot bounce runs outside when the middle is clogged up."

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/white_lendale

"He has a tendency to try to be too shifty. Instead, he should be running north and south."

http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootb...endalewhite.htm

"The only real problem with LenDale's running game is that it takes him an extra step to get moving forward again when he changes direction. He lacks the burst in and out of cuts, and it is something he must work on. He has good long range speed, but takes a bit to reach top speed."

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospe...dale_white.html

most profiles have positives & negatives... many of these, if you had linked to the entire profile, were on the whole mostly positive, & stated that white had the talent to be a starting RB... frankly, some of them seem contradictory, which only proves that you could pick out almost anything, & try & prove a point with it by selective editing... but the main message i got from reading the links you provided, is that white has the talent to be a starting RB in the league... from all the same scouting profiles you linked to...

pfcritics...

"White can somewhat be thought of as a Jerome Bettis and Curtis Martin combined."

nfl.com pro prospect file...

"He is a surprisingly good athlete for such a big back, which allows him to make sharp cuts to get through the backside hole very well. He has the quick feet and agility to avoid tacklers in the backfield and can accelerate to full speed quickly."

about.com

"I think this guy will be a stud in the NFL. With the right coaching, LenDale White will be an elite running back in this league. In my opinion, he will be a better pro than Reggie Bush, which will come as a surprise to many. His great vision, speed, and size will take him far in the league. LenDale White will be a better pro player then he was a college player, and that is just scary."

football futures

"White may be the best power back in the country. He is a load to bring down between the tackles. With his size and strength, he just runs through arm tackles and falls forward at the end of every run. For a man his size, he does pack a little wiggle, and has very good speed in the open field to take it the distance."

 

[CA_7]

He was extremely impressive in college. Like I said, he has good feet and good acceleration. He's not the kind of guy who will make an incredible juke or break a 70 yard run, but he's a tough inside runner with enough agility to make quick cuts behind the line.

That is a pretty interesting observation given that all scouting profiles for White seem to indicate the exact opposite regarding his acceleration and quick cuts."Sometimes he tries to take it to the outside when he sees an opening, but that is often a mistake because he's not fast enough to cut around the corner past defenders."

http://www.pfcritics.com/draft/LenDaleWhit...utingProfil.php

"White lacks the explosiveness to shoot through the hole to get behind the defense in a flash and does not have the premier playing speed to run away from the defense on long runs and will get caught from behind in the NFL. He is not an elusive runner and will not be able to make tacklers miss in the NFL. He lacks the burst to get the corner on his own and cannot bounce runs outside when the middle is clogged up."

http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/white_lendale

"He has a tendency to try to be too shifty. Instead, he should be running north and south."

http://football.about.com/od/nationalfootb...endalewhite.htm

"The only real problem with LenDale's running game is that it takes him an extra step to get moving forward again when he changes direction. He lacks the burst in and out of cuts, and it is something he must work on. He has good long range speed, but takes a bit to reach top speed."

http://www.footballsfuture.com/2006/prospe...dale_white.html

most profiles have positives & negatives... many of these, if you had linked to the entire profile, were on the whole mostly positive, & stated that white had the talent to be a starting RB... frankly, some of them seem contradictory, which only proves that you could pick out almost anything, & try & prove a point with it by selective editing... but the main message i got from reading the links you provided, is that white has the talent to be a starting RB in the league...

I am not sure what value there would be including the entire profile since as stated in my reply to EBF, I am only trying to dispel one aspect of White's game; his acceleration and quick cuts. Guess it could be two aspects...Regardess, all draft profiles (that I could find) from "experts" seem to be consistent regarding this single aspect of White's game.If you find any profiles from a 3rd party "draft expert" who gets paid to analyze players that contradicts this aspect (acceleration or quick cuts) please let me know. I am open to re-evaluating this aspect of White's game.

 

[Chaos Commish]

If you find any profiles from a 3rd party "draft expert" who gets paid to analyze players that contradicts this aspect (acceleration or quick cuts) please let me know. I am open to re-evaluating this aspect of White's game.

From your own links these are the only two "paid experts."

nfl.com pro prospect file..."He is a surprisingly good athlete for such a big back, which allows him to make sharp cuts to get through the backside hole very well. He has the quick feet and agility to avoid tacklers in the backfield and can accelerate to full speed quickly."about.com"I think this guy will be a stud in the NFL. With the right coaching, LenDale White will be an elite running back in this league. In my opinion, he will be a better pro than Reggie Bush, which will come as a surprise to many. His great vision, speed, and size will take him far in the league. LenDale White will be a better pro player then he was a college player, and that is just scary."

 

[Two Deep]

Tnoy Dnugy had a comment that applies nicely here (and to all rooks): "I learned a long time ago you really can't jump to conclusions...don't cut anybody and don't put anybody in the Hall of Fame."Although if you search the threads, I stand behind the Titnas pick of Chirs and think Fishre and Nrom Cohw will bring out the best in the kid.

Are you ok?

 

[ILUVBEER99]

This bandwagon is gonna fill up quite a bit the closer we get to the season.

I'm gonna predict this thread to have the most pages of any thread in Sharkpool history when it's all said and done.

Get ready for "The Mutant", because he's coming and won't stop until his ticket to Canton is punched.

 

[CA_7]

If you find any profiles from a 3rd party "draft expert" who gets paid to analyze players that contradicts this aspect (acceleration or quick cuts) please let me know. I am open to re-evaluating this aspect of White's game.

From your own links these are the only two "paid experts."

nfl.com pro prospect file..."He is a surprisingly good athlete for such a big back, which allows him to make sharp cuts to get through the backside hole very well. He has the quick feet and agility to avoid tacklers in the backfield and can accelerate to full speed quickly."about.com"I think this guy will be a stud in the NFL. With the right coaching, LenDale White will be an elite running back in this league. In my opinion, he will be a better pro than Reggie Bush, which will come as a surprise to many. His great vision, speed, and size will take him far in the league. LenDale White will be a better pro player then he was a college player, and that is just scary."

Not sure how those guys are compensated for their work and you could probably argue to what extent they are "experts". Either way you try to slice it they are all saying the same thing about LenDale.General practice in an argument/debate is to quote independent sources. The information in the links are coming from non-FBG sources and I can't find the information on FBG.com since my subscription expired.Did you find anything from a 3rd party to the contrary? I even search for shuttle times to use as a comparison to other RBs. Realizing there is a difference with "game speed" vs timed speed but figured this would get us closer to factual looking at LenDale's ability to accelerate or cut. I was soon reminded that LenDale did not run at USC's Pro Day

 

[Bob Magaw]

"expert" or not, they were the sources you cited to refute somebody's position that he had quick feet (this isn't verbatim)... in some of those SAME scouting profiles which you selectively omitted contradictory information...

if they don't agree with your viewpoint after all, than is their "expert" status undermined?

russ lande, BTW, who works for GM jr, is compensated... he was former NFL scout, was responsible for official NFL.com pro prospect profiles for incoming rookies (i think jim te thomas used to do these?), and handled the scouting & writing for one of the larger magazines, i think taking over for sporting news in house "scouting" department...

his scouting profile was probably the most divided, conflicted & even contradictory (he is quick & fast... he isn't quick & fast?), & is hard to make sense of...

its fine to bring in outside opinion to support yours, but in the case of the ones you cited, they were all over the place & you could pick whichever elements of them you want to strech white on a procrustean bed, & fit into a set of pre-conceived notions & assumptions (either way, that he will be good or bad, so in the end, that exercise didn't really get us very far?)... if you read them in full, i think you would have to agree they don't completely agree with your position... that shouldn't be a reason to dissociate yourself from them now after the fact, or it seems like cherry picking...

i'm not hear to bash henry in your thread... but i do think that to properly appreciate his upside AND risk, a fair & accurate portrayal of white will help everybody towards that end... sometimes it seems like white is painted with a uniformly black brush here, and that invites the attempt to address the imbalance...

in fairness you did concede he has talent, but that in your opinion lacks the maturity, disipline & desire to be great (or even good)... i hope that isn't an unfair characterization of your opinion...

i think you are sharp & have much to contribute to a debate like this, but it would add more crerdibility & legitimacy if EACH RB in the TEN stable was broken down in terms of strengths as well as weaknesses... surely there must be some things white does well, yet we haven't heard too much about this...

i give an example... henry looks on few highlights to be stiff & clumsy, & lacking pure running instincts... yet he was drafted in second, they said they considered first, rich gosselin said he belonged in second, there is clear opportunity with white not being entrenched (or even projected starter yet... competition is wide open)... he is a physical specimen that won CA prep 100 m title (about as fast as bush & AD, who was from TX), yet has blown up to 230...

it just seems like in the past there was no place to get a possible concession that white might have talent... his stats meant nothing because they were in weak conference... this was seemingly negated by shredding TX... but that is just one game comes the tired refrain... but he also shredded OK year before... i guess that is just two games? but he did have a larger body of work, eclipsing what some very talented USC RBs did in their career (mike garrrett, OJ, ricky bell, marcus allen, etc... & if it is such a weak conference, it didn't hurt OJ & allen?)... oh thats right, but that can't count either, because he played in a weak conference... it just goes around in circles, in which the game is rigged & there is no way to win... the only way to prove he was good is if we had a time machine & got him to transfer to stronger conference, or change the rules to allow USC to have played in 20-30 bowl games in his 3 years there...

as good as white was, that was basically splitting time with bush... what kind of numbers would he have put up if he was the feature RB... he would have further shattered & obliterated school & conference records, which have had some outstanding players over the years... & he did all this despite leaving a year early...

is marshawn lynch destined to fail, & were his collegiate accomplishments meaningless since he played in a poor conference... how about carson palmer & matt leinart? how come henry isn't indicted for being in the exact same conference that white is dissed for, in the interest of being consistent... coming from the weak conference didn't seem to hurt bush... i could go on...

 

[CA_7]

"expert" or not, they were the sources you cited to refute somebody's position that he had quick feet (this isn't verbatim)... in some of those SAME scouting profiles which you selectively omitted contradictory information...if they don't agree with your viewpoint after all, than is their "expert" status undermined?

Not at all. I don’t analyze film or take a deep dive into doing player evaluations and if admitting to that takes away from my credibility I will understand and can live with that. I just don’t have the time, energy and desire to make that deep of a dive. This is one reason I rely on information from credible sources and why I subscribe to FBG. “Experts” really comes down to semantics. I am really just trying to find independent viewsJust seems that most opinions (outside of yours a few others) are “LenDale is very fast and very good. I know this because I saw every game he played”. Hard to tell if these people are USC alums, LenDale dynasty owners or his agent.

russ lande, BTW, who works for GM jr, is compensated... he was former NFL scout, was responsible for official NFL.com pro prospect profiles for incoming rookies (i think jim te thomas used to do these?), and handled the scouting & writing for one of the larger magazines, i think taking over for sporting news in house "scouting" department...his scouting profile was probably the most divided, conflicted & even contradictory (he is quick & fast... he isn't quick & fast?), & is hard to make sense of...

Good to know, thanks

its fine to bring in outside opinion to support yours, but in the case of the ones you cited, they were all over the place & you could pick whichever elements of them you want to strech white on a procrustean bed, & fit into a set of pre-conceived notions & assumptions (either way, that he will be good or bad, so in the end, that exercise didn't really get us very far?)... if you read them in full, i think you would have to agree they don't completely agree with your position... that shouldn't be a reason to dissociate yourself from them now after the fact, or it seems like cherry picking...

I do see some inconsistencies but overall they have the same message for the weakness section. This seems a different subject all together.

i'm not hear to bash henry in your thread... but i do think that to properly appreciate his upside AND risk, a fair & accurate portrayal of white will help everybody towards that end... sometimes it seems like white is painted with a uniformly black brush here, and that invites the attempt to address the imbalance...

IMO, White deserves the black brush. No one else (except maybe his momma) is responsible for him showing up out of shape, spitting on teammates and calling a former player a “f@gg0t” in front of a public audience.

in fairness you did concede he has talent, but that in your opinion lacks the maturity, disipline & desire to be great (or even good)... i hope that isn't an unfair characterization of your opinion...

That is correct. And since I don’t know LenDale personally I know it can be unfair but base this on what I read in the press. I have also said I am open to LenDale turning things around but given the nature of people, even if he get it together for a few games or even a year, at some people he will revert back to his laziness

i think you are sharp & have much to contribute to a debate like this, but it would add more crerdibility & legitimacy if EACH RB in the TEN stable was broken down in terms of strengths as well as weaknesses... surely there must be some things white does well, yet we haven't heard too much about this...

Thanks…Yes, LenDale does have strengths, he wouldn’t be paid hundreds of thounsands of dollars by an NFL team if this wasn’t true.<delete good info, just nothing to address and too long already>

as good as white was, that was basically splitting time with bush... what kind of numbers would he have put up if he was the feature RB... he would have further shattered & obliterated school & conference records, which have had some outstanding players over the years... & he did all this despite leaving a year early...

Sorry but I don’t believe this to be given at all. Bush made LenDale better, his USC teammates made him better…. What you say is possible, but hypothetical. You could say Bush spread the field, opening up things for LenDale and without Bush they would have stacked the box on LenDale. Too many factors to say for sure.

is marshawn lynch destined to fail, & were his collegiate accomplishments meaningless since he played in a poor conference... how about carson palmer & matt leinart? how come henry isn't indicted for being in the exact same conference that white is dissed for, in the interest of being consistent... coming from the weak conference didn't seem to hurt bush... i could go on...

This seems to go along with my theory that some players don’t have the ability to take it to the next level. Players like Ron Dayne are successful in college and do next to nothing in the NFL. Lots of factors involved and we don’t always know why. LenDale’s poor discipline will catch up with him IMO.Thanks for your well thought out response Bob. I have already invested more time than I expected in this thread. That will show me for make a bold prediction.

 

[Bevo]

/Begin Tangent: I was going to say natural talent but then I had to ask myself what is actualy GOOD about White exactly? White just seems like a player who was in the right place at the right time. Defenses ( I know I am reaching here based on PAC 10) were worried about stopping Bush and USC's other weapons. White was an afterthought./End Tangent.

Out of curiosity, how many of White's games did you watch in his last couple of years at USC? Not trying to grandstand here or say you're wrong, but it doesn't sound like you saw LenDale play too much. White often did his best work with Reggie on the sidelines. I won't deny that he benefitted from the supporting cast of Leinart/Justice/Smith/Jarrett/etc., but he was utterly dominant at times. He's not explosive by any means, but he has good feet and acceleration for such a big guy. Reminds me a little bit of Stephen Davis and Jerome Bettis.

The supporting cast that he really benefitted from was offensive line. Go back and look at the Texas/USC championship game for an example. That line was gashing gaping holes in a pretty decent Texas defense. I like FatDale and I hope he gets serious about his conditioning but there were a LOT of college RBs that would have looked great behind that line.

 

[redman]

/Begin Tangent: I was going to say natural talent but then I had to ask myself what is actualy GOOD about White exactly? White just seems like a player who was in the right place at the right time. Defenses ( I know I am reaching here based on PAC 10) were worried about stopping Bush and USC's other weapons. White was an afterthought./End Tangent.

Out of curiosity, how many of White's games did you watch in his last couple of years at USC? Not trying to grandstand here or say you're wrong, but it doesn't sound like you saw LenDale play too much. White often did his best work with Reggie on the sidelines. I won't deny that he benefitted from the supporting cast of Leinart/Justice/Smith/Jarrett/etc., but he was utterly dominant at times.

He's not explosive by any means, but he has good feet and acceleration for such a big guy. Reminds me a little bit of Stephen Davis and Jerome Bettis.

The supporting cast that he really benefitted from was offensive line. Go back and look at the Texas/USC championship game for an example. That line was gashing gaping holes in a pretty decent Texas defense. I like FatDale and I hope he gets serious about his conditioning but there were a LOT of college RBs that would have looked great behind that line.

Exactly. One of the things I was most critical of USC for following that National Championship game was their failure in my view to lean on White more and Bush less when White was clearly running between the tackles so successfully. Ironically, it's what the team did do on that 4th down play only to get heavily criticized because it wasn't successful. White had some great lines, but as other talented RB's have shown even on those same teams they didn't tend to run as well as he did behind those same lines. Don't ever forget that USC tends to get 2-3 blue chip, nationally ranked freshmen RB recruits every year, and White out-performed all of them for three years.

 

[EBF]

/Begin Tangent: I was going to say natural talent but then I had to ask myself what is actualy GOOD about White exactly? White just seems like a player who was in the right place at the right time. Defenses ( I know I am reaching here based on PAC 10) were worried about stopping Bush and USC's other weapons. White was an afterthought./End Tangent.

Out of curiosity, how many of White's games did you watch in his last couple of years at USC? Not trying to grandstand here or say you're wrong, but it doesn't sound like you saw LenDale play too much. White often did his best work with Reggie on the sidelines. I won't deny that he benefitted from the supporting cast of Leinart/Justice/Smith/Jarrett/etc., but he was utterly dominant at times.

He's not explosive by any means, but he has good feet and acceleration for such a big guy. Reminds me a little bit of Stephen Davis and Jerome Bettis.

The supporting cast that he really benefitted from was offensive line. Go back and look at the Texas/USC championship game for an example. That line was gashing gaping holes in a pretty decent Texas defense. I like FatDale and I hope he gets serious about his conditioning but there were a LOT of college RBs that would have looked great behind that line.

Exactly. One of the things I was most critical of USC for following that National Championship game was their failure in my view to lean on White more and Bush less when White was clearly running between the tackles so successfully. Ironically, it's what the team did do on that 4th down play only to get heavily criticized because it wasn't successful. White had some great lines, but as other talented RB's have shown even on those same teams they didn't tend to run as well as he did behind those same lines. Don't ever forget that USC tends to get 2-3 blue chip, nationally ranked freshmen RB recruits every year, and White out-performed all of them for three years.

And for the record, I don't think anyone is expecting him to average 6.6 YPC in the NFL.

 

[salmonstud]

Lendale White & Chris Henry = the Texans' fearsome old tandem of Wali Lundy & Ron Dayne. Both will be worthless.

 

[EBF]

Lendale White & Chris Henry = Wali Lundy & Dayne. Both will be worthless.

 

[Sonny Lubick Blowup Doll]

"C-hen"? Jesus Christ...

 

[Couch Potato]

"C-hen"? Jesus Christ...

Did the Titans lay a C-egg drafting C-hen?