***Official CLEVELAND INDIANS Thread*** (1 Viewer)

[Tecumseh]

The Indians are "thoroughly scouting" eight teams that may be interested in C.C. Sabathia, including the Yankees, Red Sox, Cubs, and Dodgers (the Mets may be another). Gammons agrees with Ken Rosenthal that Mark Shapiro may trade Sabathia soon to maximize his value. Gammons does not see the Yanks jumping in with Phil Hughes or a multi-prospect offer, unless Chien-Ming Wang's injury forces their hand. He does not think the Cubs or Phillies have the goods, but suggests the Rangers as a dark horse.

Link? From where?

HERE

I actually got it from here.

 

[wadegarrett]

Little good news in injury updates for Hafner, Barfield and Carmona

Posted by Paul Hoynes phoynes@plaind.com June 18, 2008 06:00AM

Denver -- Being on the disabled list is bad enough for an athlete, but things took a turn for the worse Tuesday for Travis Hafner, Fausto Carmona and Josh Barfield.

Hafner, who has been on the disabled list since May 30 with a sore right shoulder, will visit Dr. James Andrews today in Birmingham, Ala., to get a second opinion on his shoulder.

Carmona, out since May 24 with a strained left hip, threw a 50-pitch, three-inning simulated game at Class A Mahoning Valley on Monday. When he reported to Progressive Field on Tuesday, he complained of soreness in the hip.

Barfield, placed on the disabled list Thursday with a strained ligament in his left middle finger, underwent surgery on that finger Tuesday and will miss six to eight weeks. Dr. Thomas Graham performed the surgery in Baltimore.

 

[Tecumseh]

Little good news in injury updates for Hafner, Barfield and Carmona

Posted by Paul Hoynes phoynes@plaind.com June 18, 2008 06:00AM

Denver -- Being on the disabled list is bad enough for an athlete, but things took a turn for the worse Tuesday for Travis Hafner, Fausto Carmona and Josh Barfield.

Hafner, who has been on the disabled list since May 30 with a sore right shoulder, will visit Dr. James Andrews today in Birmingham, Ala., to get a second opinion on his shoulder.

Carmona, out since May 24 with a strained left hip, threw a 50-pitch, three-inning simulated game at Class A Mahoning Valley on Monday. When he reported to Progressive Field on Tuesday, he complained of soreness in the hip.

Barfield, placed on the disabled list Thursday with a strained ligament in his left middle finger, underwent surgery on that finger Tuesday and will miss six to eight weeks. Dr. Thomas Graham performed the surgery in Baltimore.

Just wait. Since they're on the DL, they'll spend time doing community service stuff. All 3 will go to visit sick kids at the Cleveland Clinic, and all 3 will pick up staph infections.

 

[wadegarrett]

 

[Tecumseh]

It'll all turnaround now. We got SAL FASANO!!!1jose

 

[wadegarrett]

Cleveland Indians are done, so it's time to look ahead

Cleveland Plain Dealer

Terry Pluto

June 19, 2008

It's over.

For the Indians, an extended spring training has begun -- and down deep, the front office has to know it.

There will be no contention this season, not even in the pathetic American League Central Division.

Not with the Indians being 8-9 in June and ranking last in the AL with a .246 batting average. Not with the second-worst bullpen (4.83) in the AL. Not with scoring two or fewer runs in 25 of 72 games this season.

This is not a trend. It's not a bad start. It's not something that will soon change because key players are getting healthy. Let's not hear that the Indians are 26-11 when they score at least four runs. Problem is, too often, they don't -- and with all the injuries and slumps, they won't.

The season is 44 percent gone heading into Thursday night's game at Colorado, the Indians having only 90 games left. They took the field in Denver 7 1/2 games behind the Chicago White Sox, and also behind Minnesota and Detroit. The most discouraging stat is the Tribe being 13-16 in the Central, compared to 21-11 for the White Sox.

I went back five years and the pattern is clear: The team that has the best record for the season in the Central wins it. In 2007, the Tribe was 48-24 in the division en route to 96 victories.

That's why it's over for them in 2008.

It's pitcher Jake Westbrook (elbow surgery) out for a year. It's catcher Victor Martinez (elbow surgery) and infielder Josh Barfield (finger surgery) out for a few months. It's designated hitter Travis Hafner (shoulder) out for who knows how long. It's pitcher Adam Miller (finger surgery) not available for pitching depth. It's pitcher Fausto Carmona (hip) having another "setback," pushing his return sometime into the middle of July.

For the Indians, the only long lines will be in their doctors' waiting rooms, not at the postseason ticket windows.

"We do understand the reality," said General Manager Mark Shapiro. "We are without our No. 2 [Carmona] and No. 3 [Westbrook] starters. We don't have our No. 3 [Hafner] and No. 4 [Martinez] hitters. It is what it is."

The Indians have been listening to offers for pitcher C.C. Sabathia, but nothing has been serious.

All Shapiro will say is: "We have been preparing for various possibilities for a while. People forget that the Bartolo Colon trade wasn't made until June 27 [2002], and that was considered early. Most teams don't get serious [about trading] until mid-July."

The Indians have dispatched scouts to about eight different minor-league organizations, checking out prospects for possible Sabathia deals. That process began in spring training and is in full force now.

You won't hear manager Eric Wedge talking about the possibilities of Paul Byrd, Casey Blake and Joe Borowski being traded. But all are in the final years of their contracts, and of the three, Blake may be especially attractive to a contender because he can play so many positions.

If the Indians have a deal for Blake, then it would be worth recalling Asdrubal Cabrera from Class AAA Buffalo, installing him at short and moving Jhonny Peralta to third. Let's at least learn something from this season. At the very least, let's see a little more of infielder Andy Marte -- even though he has shown so little, albeit in limited chances.

Byrd (1-3, 8.84 ERA in June) needs a couple of decent outings to attract interest. Borowski could appeal to a contender needing bullpen help, especially if he somehow continues to save games. But the key will be making the right trade for Sabathia, not just the first decent deal that comes along.

As for other ideas, Jeff Stevens (11 strikeouts, eight innings) at Buffalo is the best reliever that I've seen come through Class AA Akron since Rafael Betancourt, and he should be promoted soon. I think we've seen enough of Edward Mujica.

There is no reason for Dave Dellucci to start in the outfield, not when the Indians have Grady Sizemore in center, with left and right field covered by Franklin Gutierrez, Ben Francisco and Shin-Soo Choo. Let's find out which kids can help the most.

Yes, the Indians' season is over, but they still have 89 games beginning Friday in Los Angeles to put together next year's team.

 

[Bobcat10]

Nobody is applying for CC. Maybe it deserves it's own thread.

 

[Bobcat10]

Also J. Stark is reported the Indians will not be a giving a window to any potential CC pursuer to work out an extension.

Arguable whether or not this hurts the return value. I don't think it does as many teams will be competing for him if he does hit the market as it looks like he will.

 

[Tom Servo]

Omar HOF'er?

 

[Tecumseh]

Last place. Way to go, fellas.

ETA: First to worst in 36 days. SHUT IT DOWN!!

 

[wadegarrett]

Last place. Way to go, fellas.ETA: First to worst in 36 days. SHUT IT DOWN!!

Could be the most disappointing Indians season ever. And that's saying something with this franchise's history.

 

[Tom Servo]

Manager Eric Wedge: "It's not where you want to be. It's late June, we still have a long way to go. We have to look at how many games we are behind moreso than where we are in the standings.

Gee, ya think? What led you to that conclusion, Einstein?

"We've got a lot of games left in our division. Let's get these guys pointed in the right direction and see what happens. It's last place, but it's 7 1/2 games. If we have a great week and they have a bad week, you'll be asking different questions."

Yeah, like why can't you have one Lee Elia-type meltdown? Just one? Could you not act like your strung out on 'ludes?

 

[Bobcat10]

1

game

winning

streak

 

[wadegarrett]

1 2

game

winning

streak

 

[Bobcat10]

1 2

game

winning

streak

:trade_time:

 

[Tecumseh]

Last place. Way to go, fellas.

ETA: First to worst in 36 days. SHUT IT DOWN!!

Could be the most disappointing Indians season ever. And that's saying something with this franchise's history.

Unreal. 12.5 out before the break. How is that even possible with Lee and Sabathia in the rotation?

 

[Tom Servo]

Last place. Way to go, fellas.

ETA: First to worst in 36 days. SHUT IT DOWN!!

Could be the most disappointing Indians season ever. And that's saying something with this franchise's history.

Unreal. 12.5 out before the break. How is that even possible with Lee and Sabathia in the rotation?

I dunno; what's their BA with 2 outs and RISP? It's gotta suck.The way they're playing, they'll lose tonight even though they're off.

 

[The Man With No Name]

Do the Indians still have their 1st round draft pick for 2009? It could be a high one.

 

[Bobcat10]

Do the Indians still have their 1st round draft pick for 2009? It could be a high one.

Don't see why not. Are you even allowed to trade these picks? Can't remember a trade involving picks off the top of my head.Buster Olney said on bb2n that the Brewers are the frontrunners for CC and the deal revolved around LaPorta. Deal could be before his next start.

 

[Tom Servo]

Do the Indians still have their 1st round draft pick for 2009? It could be a high one.

Don't see why not. Are you even allowed to trade these picks? Can't remember a trade involving picks off the top of my head.

No, baseball draft picks cannot be traded.

Buster Olney said on bb2n that the Brewers are the frontrunners for CC and the deal revolved around LaPorta. Deal could be before his next start.

This would make sense. Think about 2 things:1) The Tribe will not trade him to an AL team, make book on it. In the NL, there are a few teams that are frequent trading partners with Cleveland; NYM, Philly, Atlanta and Milwaukee.2) The Brew Crew making a trade for CC would probably fall in line with Houston's trade for Randy Johnson in 1998. Here's how that trade went down:

July 31, 1998: Traded by the Seattle Mariners to the Houston Astros for a player to be named later, Freddy Garcia, and Carlos Guillen. The Houston Astros sent John Halama (October 1, 1998) to the Seattle Mariners to complete the trade.

The Astros ended up going 102-60 before flaming out in the NLDS against SD. Cleveland won't get near the talent level IMO, but if Milwaukee looks at this as a rental in order to leap into the WC, then they might give up a decent prospect and a couple of AAAA players (think Lee Stevens - better than AAA but not quite major league talent - in the Bartolo Colon trade in 2002.) Just my

 

[Tecumseh]

Any chance they throw in Blake and get LaPorta and Escobar?

 

[Bobcat10]

Any chance they throw in Blake and get LaPorta and Escobar?

That's what I'm hoping for. Posted it on another site. Doesn't sound like that is the deal though. Brewers seem willing to give up 2 of their top 5 prospects, but NOT LaPorta and Escobar together.From the CBS trade rumor blog, CastroTurf is citing a major league source that the CC trade with Milwaukee is DONE. Maybe we hear something later tonight or first thing in the morning.

 

[Bobcat10]

Do the Indians still have their 1st round draft pick for 2009? It could be a high one.

Don't see why not. Are you even allowed to trade these picks? Can't remember a trade involving picks off the top of my head.

No, baseball draft picks cannot be traded.

Buster Olney said on bb2n that the Brewers are the frontrunners for CC and the deal revolved around LaPorta. Deal could be before his next start.

This would make sense. Think about 2 things:1) The Tribe will not trade him to an AL team, make book on it. In the NL, there are a few teams that are frequent trading partners with Cleveland; NYM, Philly, Atlanta and Milwaukee.

2) The Brew Crew making a trade for CC would probably fall in line with Houston's trade for Randy Johnson in 1998. Here's how that trade went down:

July 31, 1998: Traded by the Seattle Mariners to the Houston Astros for a player to be named later, Freddy Garcia, and Carlos Guillen. The Houston Astros sent John Halama (October 1, 1998) to the Seattle Mariners to complete the trade.

The Astros ended up going 102-60 before flaming out in the NLDS against SD. Cleveland won't get near the talent level IMO, but if Milwaukee looks at this as a rental in order to leap into the WC, then they might give up a decent prospect and a couple of AAAA players (think Lee Stevens - better than AAA but not quite major league talent - in the Bartolo Colon trade in 2002.) Just my :whoosh:

LaPorta is more than a decent prospect. It's also possible we get another top 5-7 player from the Brewers minors (potentially a AAAA player I guess), which is not a bad place to be picking from these days.

 

[Bobcat10]

Seems like alot of differing views on the blogs....can't imagine the local talk radio this morning.

For the people that are so against the trade, do they not realize we're not signing CC long term and our team sucks right now? Or they wanted MORE? I understand it's not like we robbed Milwaukee here, and who knows what would have happened if the Tribe said "no thanks" when the Brewers would not include Escobar, but we got a decent enough haul to warrant the trade and it's better than the two draft picks we'd have been getting next June.

 

[MAC_32]

Seems like alot of differing views on the blogs....can't imagine the local talk radio this morning.For the people that are so against the trade, do they not realize we're not signing CC long term and our team sucks right now? Or they wanted MORE? I understand it's not like we robbed Milwaukee here, and who knows what would have happened if the Tribe said "no thanks" when the Brewers would not include Escobar, but we got a decent enough haul to warrant the trade and it's better than the two draft picks we'd have been getting next June.

Radio's ugly, it's sort of like a bad car crash though, I can't take my headphones out of my ears even though the commentary makes me want to scream.Reportedly Milwaukee backed Cleveland into a corner saying make this deal before Tuesday or there's no trade, they want to maximize their rental, and who can blame them.

 

[Tom Servo]

Seems like alot of differing views on the blogs....can't imagine the local talk radio this morning.

For the people that are so against the trade, do they not realize we're not signing CC long term and our team sucks right now? Or they wanted MORE? I understand it's not like we robbed Milwaukee here, and who knows what would have happened if the Tribe said "no thanks" when the Brewers would not include Escobar, but we got a decent enough haul to warrant the trade and it's better than the two draft picks we'd have been getting next June.

Radio's ugly, it's sort of like a bad car crash though, I can't take my headphones out of my ears even though the commentary makes me want to scream.Reportedly Milwaukee backed Cleveland into a corner saying make this deal before Tuesday or there's no trade, they want to maximize their rental, and who can blame them.

Radio's probably gonna be ugly. Let's face it; they're not going to put on a bunch of milktoast-sounding sheep. It doesn't make for good radio. Given what's in this article, the infamous "player to be named later" could actually be a good prospect.I'm withholding my judgment until I find out who the last player is.

 

[Bobcat10]

Seems like alot of differing views on the blogs....can't imagine the local talk radio this morning.

For the people that are so against the trade, do they not realize we're not signing CC long term and our team sucks right now? Or they wanted MORE? I understand it's not like we robbed Milwaukee here, and who knows what would have happened if the Tribe said "no thanks" when the Brewers would not include Escobar, but we got a decent enough haul to warrant the trade and it's better than the two draft picks we'd have been getting next June.

Radio's ugly, it's sort of like a bad car crash though, I can't take my headphones out of my ears even though the commentary makes me want to scream.Reportedly Milwaukee backed Cleveland into a corner saying make this deal before Tuesday or there's no trade, they want to maximize their rental, and who can blame them.

Radio's probably gonna be ugly. Let's face it; they're not going to put on a bunch of milktoast-sounding sheep. It doesn't make for good radio. Given what's in this article, the infamous "player to be named later" could actually be a good prospect.I'm withholding my judgment until I find out who the last player is.

I hear we want to see if our scouts think Green can make the shift to 2B. If not, they'll go with Brantley. Not sure how to weigh this one out as I'm not too familiar with these guys, but they are both near the top of the Brewers prospect list. I know Green was the Brewers minor league player of the year last season, which is pretty good looking at the other players there (LaPorta, Gamel, Escobar, Salome, etc).Brantley is 21 yrs old and was the Brewers 7th round pick in 2005. I believe he's batting leadoff on that studly AA team and has nearly 20 steals w/ good avg/ob%. Apparently has very good plate discipline from what I've read. He's an OF though, and we seem to be stockpiling them these days (is Crowe going to get his shot soon?).

 

[Tom Servo]

And now, please rise while our esteemed owner honors us with his presence (actual e-mail I received from the Tribe):

Dear Fans,Thank you for your many years of loyalty to and support of the Cleveland Indians. Because you are vitally important to the success of the Indians, I want to communicate the thinking behind our recent player personnel decisions, including our decision to trade C.C. Sabathia, directly to you.After keeping the strong nucleus from our 2007 playoff team intact, we all had high expectations entering the 2008 season. Unfortunately, the team did not play up to our expectations and we sustained injuries to key players within our starting lineup and rotation. Due to our team's performance, as well as the significant opportunity to add talent that can impact the short-term and long-term success of the organization, we decided to trade C.C.We did not take our decision to trade C.C. lightly. He has been an integral member of the Indians organization and the Cleveland community for the past eight years. We all shared the pleasure of watching C.C. develop from a young draft pick into a mature team leader and one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball. After re-signing C.C. in 2005 to a contract that extended into what would have been his first two free agent years, we were able to share in and enjoy his 2007 Cy Young Award winning season as a Cleveland Indian, a performance that propelled our club to the AL Central Division Championship.We made extensive attempts to secure C.C.'s future in Cleveland by signing him to a contract extension. In fact, we offered C.C. a top of the market contract that included the highest annual salary in the history of the Indians organization. Unfortunately, due to C.C.'s desire to test the free agent market, we determined that trading C.C. provided the best outcome for the long-term success of the organization. By trading C.C., we capitalized on an opportunity to infuse upper level talent into our organization that can contribute to our on-field success for many years rather than risk losing C.C. for only two draft picks with a distant and uncertain future.We remain enthusiastic about the steps we have taken towards fulfilling our organizational mission to build and sustain a championship-caliber team. Our minor league system served as the catalyst for our 2007 playoff run and continues to develop exciting, young players. We look forward to the opportunity of watching many more young players blossom into Major League stars as Cleveland Indians.We have confidence that the tremendously difficult decision to trade C.C. will enhance our ability to put a winning club on the field to make our loyal fans and the entire Cleveland community proud. On behalf of my family and the entire Cleveland Indians organization, I appreciate your continued support and look forward to seeing you at a game in the near future. Go Tribe!Sincerely,Paul Dolan

 

[Tom Servo]

Here's something I found from Scouts 2008 Baseball Prospectus Guide:

LaPorta (#2 organizational prospect)

Selecting LaPorta at #7 overall raised some eyebrows, but his power bat should get him to Milwaukee quickly. A catcher-first baseman in college, some questioned the NL Brewers picking a player with DH skills.

If he (scouting director Jack Zduriencik) is correct, Fielder and LaPorta could eventually provide a powerful left-right combo in the middle of the lineup, though LaPorta likely won't hit for average unless he curbs his over-aggressive style and improves his pitch recognition.

Prodigious power package learning the outfieldZach Jackson (#14 organizational prospect)

...while Jackson (Blue Jays first round, '04, dealt to Brewers in '05) regressed last summer. Jackson, 24, worked in eight games for Milwaukee in 2006, but was in AAA all of 2007, producing so-so numbers as he worked on off-speed pitches and heard rumors of a move to the bullpen. "It's all part of the development of a young pitcher," Brewers manager Ned Yost said.

Still time to fulfill potential, but stock is dropping

 

[wadegarrett]

And now, please rise while our esteemed owner honors us with his presence (actual e-mail I received from the Tribe):

Dear Fans,Thank you for your many years of loyalty to and support of the Cleveland Indians. Because you are vitally important to the success of the Indians, I want to communicate the thinking behind our recent player personnel decisions, including our decision to trade C.C. Sabathia, directly to you.After keeping the strong nucleus from our 2007 playoff team intact, we all had high expectations entering the 2008 season. Unfortunately, the team did not play up to our expectations and we sustained injuries to key players within our starting lineup and rotation. Due to our team's performance, as well as the significant opportunity to add talent that can impact the short-term and long-term success of the organization, we decided to trade C.C.We did not take our decision to trade C.C. lightly. He has been an integral member of the Indians organization and the Cleveland community for the past eight years. We all shared the pleasure of watching C.C. develop from a young draft pick into a mature team leader and one of the best pitchers in Major League Baseball. After re-signing C.C. in 2005 to a contract that extended into what would have been his first two free agent years, we were able to share in and enjoy his 2007 Cy Young Award winning season as a Cleveland Indian, a performance that propelled our club to the AL Central Division Championship.We made extensive attempts to secure C.C.'s future in Cleveland by signing him to a contract extension. In fact, we offered C.C. a top of the market contract that included the highest annual salary in the history of the Indians organization. Unfortunately, due to C.C.'s desire to test the free agent market, we determined that trading C.C. provided the best outcome for the long-term success of the organization. By trading C.C., we capitalized on an opportunity to infuse upper level talent into our organization that can contribute to our on-field success for many years rather than risk losing C.C. for only two draft picks with a distant and uncertain future.We remain enthusiastic about the steps we have taken towards fulfilling our organizational mission to build and sustain a championship-caliber team. Our minor league system served as the catalyst for our 2007 playoff run and continues to develop exciting, young players. We look forward to the opportunity of watching many more young players blossom into Major League stars as Cleveland Indians.We have confidence that the tremendously difficult decision to trade C.C. will enhance our ability to put a winning club on the field to make our loyal fans and the entire Cleveland community proud. On behalf of my family and the entire Cleveland Indians organization, I appreciate your continued support and look forward to seeing you at a game in the near future. Go Tribe!Sincerely,Paul Dolan

Dear Paul,wg

 

[Bobcat10]

First insight as to how the Tribe will approach LaPorta in the field and this notes Thompson talked to Green about 2B.

A few things the latter tells me is we ARE going to move Asdrubal to SS sooner rather than later and we feel more confident about our possibilities at 3B (Marte, Peralta, Hodges, etc) than 2B (Barfield?). The only reason to aquire Brantley is to mold a player at leadoff for 2009 or 2010 that can allow Grady to move to the 3-hole (this should be a priority with or without Brantley imo).

edit: Crowe is having a good year, but I'm not sold on his future just yet, let alone the leadoff spot.

The Indians traded him to Milwaukee on Monday for four prospects. Right-handed hitter Matt LaPorta is the key to the deal. The Brewers threw in left-hander Zach Jackson and right-hander Rob Bryson. There's a fourth player coming, a player the Indians say could develop into an everyday big-leaguer.

They have until the end of the year to choose that player off a list provided by the Brewers. One of the players on that list could be Taylor Green, a third baseman at Class A Brevard County, Fla. Robby Thompson, Indians special assistant, scouted Green. Thompson, a former Gold Glove second baseman, asked Green if he could play second base, but the Brewers have yet to play him there.

Michael Brantley, an outfielder with LaPorta at Class AA Huntsville, could be another player on the list. Joshua Kusnick, Brantley's agent, says that's not so.

One way or the other, Sabathia leaves a hole on the Indians. But this is a team with a lot of holes as they resume play tonight against in Detroit having lost eight straight and 14 of their past 18 games.

LaPorta, the player to be named and the two pitchers the Indians received for Sabathia will have no influence on this doomed season. LaPorta reports to Class AA Akron tonight. The Indians will move him from right field to left field. They'll keep working him out at first base as well.

LaPorta played first base at the University of Florida.

 

[Tom Servo]

Anyone else notice that the opening sequence on STO had no players and just the Indians logo? What do they know about who's next to go that we don't?

 

[Tom Servo]

Nice chance to go oh-fer the road trip. I can't recall in my 40+ years of following Indians baseball that ever having happened...

 

[INDIANSummer]

:(

:X

 

[INDIANSummer]

Nice chance to go oh-fer the road trip. I can't recall in my 40+ years of following Indians baseball that ever having happened...

'absolutely atrocious' doesn't do this season justice

 

[INDIANSummer]

####!!!

 

[MAC_32]

I realize we're losing 6-1, but how do you load the bases with nobody out against Casey Fossum of all people and then not only fail to score a run, but not even get a ball in play?!

 

[Limp Ditka]

You guys suck. Way to hold onto that 6 run lead

 

[Green94]

You guys suck. Way to hold onto that 6 run lead

 

[Bobcat10]

You guys suck. Way to hold onto that 6 run lead

We don't suck...we were in 1st place on May 15th.

 

[wadegarrett]

You guys suck.

gee, ya think?

 

[Tecumseh]

So the Sux fans are up by 7.5 games and are getting nervous about the Tigers? Way to keep the faith.

 

[Limp Ditka]

So the Sux fans are up by 7.5 games and are getting nervous about the Tigers? Way to keep the faith.

I'll worry about any team within 10 games before the start of August.Heck, the Sox were 14 games up on Cleveland on August 1st, 2005 and the Tribe got within a game and a half before they finally ran out of gas.

 

[wadegarrett]

heading down tonight to check out this cluster#### of a team

 

[higgins]

Tribe fans, any thoughts as to how likely it is that Eric Wedge continues to be the skipper beyond this year? The guy seems to be one of the best, young managers in the game -- does their performance this year warrant a break with him at the helm?

 

[MAC_32]

Tribe fans, any thoughts as to how likely it is that Eric Wedge continues to be the skipper beyond this year? The guy seems to be one of the best, young managers in the game -- does their performance this year warrant a break with him at the helm?

I'd put the probability of Wedge being fired as 80 - yes, 20 - no. There would be an uproar here if this team loses 100 games and he is retained, and rightfully so. He has way too much say on the type of player he wants in the clubhouse (otherwise Milton Bradley and Brandon Phillips, among others, may still be on the team - think they could use them right now?), his in-game managing is suspect at best, his players seem to play with the same fire he shows (which is none) when they're losing, and he recklessly over used his players in last year's title run. I posted it preseason and was blasted accordingly, Carmona and VMart were over used last year and it caught up to them (CC's still going strong though). Betancourt never seemed to get a day off last year, his body didn't know what to do when it no longer was required to pitch, he hasn't been the same all year. Granted it's not Wedge's fault most of the lineup over achieved last year and under achieved this year but he made some very short sighted decisions and is paying the price now.Shapiro deserves some of the blame - no action in the offseason, thinking Joe Bo could go another season, ponying up for Hafner when breakdown was imminent (see, Baseball Prospectus article from 07) - but Wedge had some say in a lot of those moves too. As a Tigers fan I'd love to see Wedge in the dugout again in 09, but I don't think that will be the case.

 

[Tom Servo]

Tribe fans, any thoughts as to how likely it is that Eric Wedge continues to be the skipper beyond this year? The guy seems to be one of the best, young managers in the game -- does their performance this year warrant a break with him at the helm?

I'd put the probability of Wedge being fired as 80 - yes, 20 - no. There would be an uproar here if this team loses 100 games and he is retained, and rightfully so. He has way too much say on the type of player he wants in the clubhouse (otherwise Milton Bradley and Brandon Phillips, among others, may still be on the team - think they could use them right now?), his in-game managing is suspect at best, his players seem to play with the same fire he shows (which is none) when they're losing, and he recklessly over used his players in last year's title run. I posted it preseason and was blasted accordingly, Carmona and VMart were over used last year and it caught up to them (CC's still going strong though). Betancourt never seemed to get a day off last year, his body didn't know what to do when it no longer was required to pitch, he hasn't been the same all year. Granted it's not Wedge's fault most of the lineup over achieved last year and under achieved this year but he made some very short sighted decisions and is paying the price now.Shapiro deserves some of the blame - no action in the offseason, thinking Joe Bo could go another season, ponying up for Hafner when breakdown was imminent (see, Baseball Prospectus article from 07) - but Wedge had some say in a lot of those moves too. As a Tigers fan I'd love to see Wedge in the dugout again in 09, but I don't think that will be the case.

While my heart agrees with the bolded part, the sad reality is it's probably the reverse. EW is going to get the benefit of the doubt insomuch as all the injuries will provide the cover for Shapiro to allow Wedge to keep his job.The Tribe does indeed lack intensity and EW does overuse guys. IMO, a worse flaw is an inability to make in-game adjustments to what the pitcher is throwing. If they can't hit the off-speed stuff, that's where the opposing pitcher goes and they end up flailing at pitches for strike three.

I don't think you can lay all of this at Shapiro's feet; I think the Dolan's have to bear their share of responsibility for the lack of activity (lack of cash? cheap?).

I would disagree on Bradley -- dude was and still is a clubhouse cancer. Phillips, on the other hand...

 

[wadegarrett]

heading down tonight to check out this cluster#### of a team

actually enjoyed myself for once this season

 

[Bobcat10]

Tribe fans, any thoughts as to how likely it is that Eric Wedge continues to be the skipper beyond this year? The guy seems to be one of the best, young managers in the game -- does their performance this year warrant a break with him at the helm?

I'd put the probability of Wedge being fired as 80 - yes, 20 - no. There would be an uproar here if this team loses 100 games and he is retained, and rightfully so. He has way too much say on the type of player he wants in the clubhouse (otherwise Milton Bradley and Brandon Phillips, among others, may still be on the team - think they could use them right now?), his in-game managing is suspect at best, his players seem to play with the same fire he shows (which is none) when they're losing, and he recklessly over used his players in last year's title run. I posted it preseason and was blasted accordingly, Carmona and VMart were over used last year and it caught up to them (CC's still going strong though). Betancourt never seemed to get a day off last year, his body didn't know what to do when it no longer was required to pitch, he hasn't been the same all year. Granted it's not Wedge's fault most of the lineup over achieved last year and under achieved this year but he made some very short sighted decisions and is paying the price now.Shapiro deserves some of the blame - no action in the offseason, thinking Joe Bo could go another season, ponying up for Hafner when breakdown was imminent (see, Baseball Prospectus article from 07) - but Wedge had some say in a lot of those moves too. As a Tigers fan I'd love to see Wedge in the dugout again in 09, but I don't think that will be the case.

While my heart agrees with the bolded part, the sad reality is it's probably the reverse. EW is going to get the benefit of the doubt insomuch as all the injuries will provide the cover for Shapiro to allow Wedge to keep his job.The Tribe does indeed lack intensity and EW does overuse guys. IMO, a worse flaw is an inability to make in-game adjustments to what the pitcher is throwing. If they can't hit the off-speed stuff, that's where the opposing pitcher goes and they end up flailing at pitches for strike three.

I don't think you can lay all of this at Shapiro's feet; I think the Dolan's have to bear their share of responsibility for the lack of activity (lack of cash? cheap?).

I would disagree on Bradley -- dude was and still is a clubhouse cancer. Phillips, on the other hand...

Wedge in this situation on alot of teams...gone. But with Shapiro making the call...I think he stays another year. I was all for getting rid of him last year and then they extended him mid-season. Wouldn't surpise me if by this time next season he's gone, but I think he starts 2009.Dolan's have more blame to take on everything than Shapiro. Our GM goes after guys like Michaels and Dellucci because it's all we can afford in the FA market and trading for solid higher priced players is not in our vocabulary. Either ownership must change again or we have to continue to grow young players from within and keep working the smaller trades when we can (selling CC was big and a must, I'm glad they pulled it already). Why do you think Shapiro is hesitant to trade prospects or guys he thinks are ready to make major league impact for veteran rentals? Usually those rentals don't make or break your season, and if they don't make it you give away youngsters for nothing and probably don't have a title to boot. Shapiro and Wedge on the other hand need to quit wasting time with players like Nixon and Dellucci and let the youngsters play. They need to find a better balance with that.

 

[Tom Servo]

heading down tonight to check out this cluster#### of a team

actually enjoyed myself for once this season

For as much as you go, we're gonna have to start seeing you on camera. Can you hold up a sign for us STO viewers since a penny's too small? TIA