*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (12 Viewers)

[jobarules]

But you wear your seatbelt in the car and on the plane, right?  You don't smoke indoors or on a plane and appreciate that others don't as well, correct?

Wearing a mask on public transit until this is no longer considered a pandemic (or at least not in the middle of another surge here) should be an easy yes for a slight inconvenience.  

The vax is like wearing a seatbelt in the car. The mask is like ALSO wearing a helmet in the car. How come we don't all wear helmets while we are in the car?

 

[otb_lifer]

The vax is like wearing a seatbelt in the car. The mask is like ALSO wearing a helmet in the car. How come we don't all wear helmets while we are in the car?

... and where are our rollbars?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Those are not equal. The Vaccine was the equivalent to a seat belt on a plane and those other measures.  The goalpost moving needs to stop.  This has been over for a year+ now.  That a bunch of morons that didn't understand science ignored the vax bothers me none, no more than someone wrapping their skull around a tree not wearing a seatbelt.  

Correct.  You not wearing a seatbelt only gets you killed.  You not wearing a mask impacts others while we have rising cases and numbers that are still higher than they were at the low-point when all the restrictions were in place still, even after vaccines were out.  

Nobody is saying wear a mask forever (though some may say it is a good idea on public transit to do so regardless), but we are not in a place still to take them off in such scenarios while we are literally in another rise in spread.  People saying it is such a big deal to wear one are just being stubborn and inconsiderate.  It is sad really.

 

[culdeus]

It is disappointing there have been no edits to the vax for the delta or omni variants.  Getting endless boosters for alpha seems silly, and perhaps has negative consequences.  

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

It is disappointing there have been no edits to the vax for the delta or omni variants.  Getting endless boosters for alpha seems silly, and perhaps has negative consequences.  

It looks like there was no need for Delta, but there will be Omnicron specific mRNA added for the fall booster.

 

[Scoresman]

It looks like there was no need for Delta, but there will be Omnicron specific mRNA added for the fall booster.

I thought they originally said these would be ready in the Spring.  Wonder what happened?

 

[Scoresman]

Correct.  You not wearing a seatbelt only gets you killed.  You not wearing a mask impacts others while we have rising cases and numbers that are still higher than they were at the low-point when all the restrictions were in place still, even after vaccines were out.  

Nobody is saying wear a mask forever (though some may say it is a good idea on public transit to do so regardless), but we are not in a place still to take them off in such scenarios while we are literally in another rise in spread.  People saying it is such a big deal to wear one are just being stubborn and inconsiderate.  It is sad really.

This is what people forget. You may not care about getting COVID, but you getting it statistically means you're transmitting it to a non-zero number of other people,  prolonging the pandemic.

That said, I do agree that the mandate as it was was pretty stupid.  If they aren't going to update it to mandate KN95s at the very least, it probably does little to stop spread of Omicron.  If I had to guess from personal observation, the percentage of people who are wearing KN95s or N95s is in single digits.  Might as well drop the mandates and let Darwinism run its course.

 

[Sleestak]

Taking a work trip next week.  I'll be wearing a mask in terminal and on plane.  Ya' dirty savages.  I don't expect any issues.

 

[Gilroy34]

Sorry you had to go through that, but glad you are doing better.

I love live poker but have yet to try it maskless. Everything we know about Covid tells us poker is a horrible environment.

I have been playing live poker maskless for over 8 months now and it has been fabulous.

 

[AAABatteries]

Correct.  You not wearing a seatbelt only gets you killed.  You not wearing a mask impacts others while we have rising cases and numbers that are still higher than they were at the low-point when all the restrictions were in place still, even after vaccines were out.  

Nobody is saying wear a mask forever (though some may say it is a good idea on public transit to do so regardless), but we are not in a place still to take them off in such scenarios while we are literally in another rise in spread.  People saying it is such a big deal to wear one are just being stubborn and inconsiderate.  It is sad really.

I won't speak for anyone here, including myself, but many are looking at this and saying, who cares about case counts, really about the only number that should matter is deaths among vaccinated people with no comorbidities.  That's the number that would move the needle for most people, IMO.

 

[Gilroy34]

Except shutting down restaurants really sucks and really is something that can’t be shut down forever.  But wearing a proper mask? No big deal at all considering the value it provides in lowering transmission rates.  Just like sunscreen, seatbelts, etc. are all minor things that give massive benefits compared to their inconveniences. 
 

I know 5 year olds who complain less about wearing masks than a lot of adults. I just don’t get it. 

Masks are horribly uncomfortable and it is harder to breathe with them on.

 

[Doug B]

It looks like there was no need for Delta, but there will be Omnicron specific mRNA added for the fall booster.

I thought they originally said these would be ready in the Spring.  Wonder what happened?

I had the same recollection as you did, so I looked back at some articles from earlier this year.

There's two things being conflated: 1) An omicron-specific vaccine and 2) a multivalent vaccine that aims to protect against most or all variants known to date. 

Regarding omicron-specific vaccines, Pfizer's CEO Albert Bourla said on January 10, 2022 that they were starting to manufacture these on spec (without orders to fill). I can only conjecture that these efforts were abandoned as Omicron cases began dropping rapidly throughout February and March.

Meanwhile, work on a multivalent vaccine presses forward (ABC News, 4/14/2022). Still, Bourla hedges a bit:

By this fall, pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and its partner BioNTech could potentially have a COVID-19 booster that specifically addresses the omicron variant as well as its subvariants and other known strains of the virus, CEO Albert Bourla said during a panel Wednesday.

"It is a possibility that we have it by then; it's not certainty," Bourla said.

 

[Scoresman]

I won't speak for anyone here, including myself, but many are looking at this and saying, who cares about case counts, really about the only number that should matter is deaths among vaccinated people with no comorbidities.  That's the number that would move the needle for most people, IMO.

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a little selfish to not care about giving COVID to others.  They don't have to die from it for it to be a huge inconvenience.  It's like the people who go in to work sick and then give their cold to half the office.  

 

[Gilroy34]

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a little selfish to not care about giving COVID to others.  They don't have to die from it for it to be a huge inconvenience.  It's like the people who go in to work sick and then give their cold to half the office.  

Others are free to still wear a mask and stay home.

 

[Doug B]

... who cares about case counts, really about the only number that should matter is deaths among vaccinated people with no comorbidities.

While I liked your post and agree with the "Who cares about case counts?" part, I do think more than death rate should matter. Namely, also important are rates of moderate-to-severe symptomatic illness and rates of hospitalization.

Having said that, those particular rates I mentioned appear to be cratering. I stress "appear to be" -- I've not yet come across a single source that ties it all up with a bow. It's a nonce conclusion I've developed while comparing disparate bits of information about the pandemic's state of play in the U.S. right now. Those bits are wastewater surveillance, directly-detected cases (those that get into official counts), widespread anecdotes of low hospitalization rates, and a still-plummeting death rate in the U.S. that is now decoupled from case rates.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a little selfish to not care about giving COVID to others.  They don't have to die from it for it to be a huge inconvenience.  It's like the people who go in to work sick and then give their cold to half the office.  

Sure, but nobody goes around wearing masks all the time on the off chance that they happen to have an asymptomatic cold and might spread that cold virus to somebody else.  That's a trivial concern and just part of living in a society with other human beings.  You're free to do so if you want, but it's kind of neurotic.

If SARS-CoV-2 were as dangerous now as it was two years ago, that would change this conversation as well.  But it's just a bad cold for most of us.  I'm not going out of my way to avoid it, I don't expect others to go out of their way to avoid giving it to me, and it's up to you take whatever precautions you deem appropriate if for some reason you're still very concerned about testing positive and being laid up for a few days.  

 

[Scoresman]

While I liked your post and agree with the "Who cares about case counts?" part, I do think more than death rate should matter. Namely, also important are rates of moderate-to-severe symptomatic illness and rates of hospitalization.

Having said that, those particular rates I mentioned appear to be cratering. I stress "appear to be" -- I've not yet come across a single source that ties it all up with a bow. It's a nonce conclusion I've developed while comparing disparate bits of information about the pandemic's state of play in the U.S. right now. Those bits are wastewater surveillance, directly-detected cases (those that get into official counts), widespread anecdotes of low hospitalization rates, and a still-plummeting death rate in the U.S. that is now decoupled from case rates.

Just getting it period is scary to me.  A lot of people think that with cratering hospitalization and death rates, COVID is like getting the flu/cold now.  This is so not the case though. We know long COVID is a thing.  Permanent loss of taste/smell too.  Now there's research saying it shrinks the brain.  We're just scratching the surface of what we know about long COVID. I don't know why more people don't care about this.      

 

[culdeus]

If real N95s weren't available, then this is a discussion.  If you care about not catching it, wear one correctly.  

This isn't that hard.  The whole mask thing was (maybe) a debate when N95s weren't available in numbers so us using stupid Etsy cloth masks was the best available option.  Those days are over.  having 200 people on a plane with Etsy masks saying "lets go Brandon" on them in 60 thread count cotton does 0 for anyone at all.

 

[AAABatteries]

While I liked your post and agree with the "Who cares about case counts?" part, I do think more than death rate should matter. Namely, also important are rates of moderate-to-severe symptomatic illness and rates of hospitalization.

Having said that, those particular rates I mentioned appear to be cratering. I stress "appear to be" -- I've not yet come across a single source that ties it all up with a bow. It's a nonce conclusion I've developed while comparing disparate bits of information about the pandemic's state of play in the U.S. right now. Those bits are wastewater surveillance, directly-detected cases (those that get into official counts), widespread anecdotes of low hospitalization rates, and a still-plummeting death rate in the U.S. that is now decoupled from case rates.

I don't disagree.  As I mentioned, I wasn't even speaking for myself - meaning, I'm making the argument that I think most would make and honestly one I also find mostly compelling. 

 

[AAABatteries]

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a little selfish to not care about giving COVID to others.  They don't have to die from it for it to be a huge inconvenience.  It's like the people who go in to work sick and then give their cold to half the office.  

I don't disagree with some of your points in your next post about long Covid and unknowns but want to address this specifically.  For my entire life people have known that it's possible to get the flu and pass it on to someone who then dies.  But people were not concerned with that (for whatever reason).  I'm assuming you were that way too - I wouldn't call your attitude or behavior selfish.  I mean, there's risks in life. 

When somebody drives a car there's a risk they may kill someone;  when they drive too fast;  when they drive drunk.

That's why I said before, we are down to arguing how risky things are.  People aren't agreeing with how risky it is.  I think at the moment I lean toward the side saying it's not so risky that we need to force people to wear masks, distance, etc.  But I also acknowledge there's people out there at a higher risk - it sucks for them but it sucked in the past for people who needed to avoid getting the flu or some other virus.

And FTR, if it matters - were to fly this afternoon I would be wearing a mask.

 

[the moops]

I work at a children's museum. We ditched our mask mandate a month ago or so. That goes for staff and visitors. I would say 40-50% of our staff still wear masks. Visitors maybe 5% or 10%. I don't wear a mask but must admit that I have felt a little awkward in not doing so when I am in a meeting and 2/3 of the other people are.

 

[humpback]

Yes, but it doesn't change the fact that it is a little selfish to not care about giving COVID to others.  They don't have to die from it for it to be a huge inconvenience.  It's like the people who go in to work sick and then give their cold to half the office.  

They know, and being selfish and all, simply don't care.

 

[AAABatteries]

They know, and being selfish and all, simply don't care.

I promise this isn't a gotcha question as I already mentioned I'd wear a mask if I was flying today.

When would not wearing a mask go from selfish to fine?  What are your metrics or determining factors for when it's ok?

I said a really long time ago in this thread while things were heated that eventually we would run in to a time when we would need an "off ramp" from Covid.  We should have been determining the answers to those questions above if it was important enough for all of us to be on the same page.  I'm not going to call somebody selfish for making their own mind up based on their answers to those questions.  And the reason is simple - I didn't wear a mask in the past when there was a non-zero chance that I could have given a virus to someone.

 

[AAABatteries]

And to go further with my thinking.

Let's say you set a metric that is agreeable to you for when a mask isn't needed.

Would you then be accepting of someone else calling you selfish if they set that metric differently than you do?

 

[greenmountaingoat]

My parents just texted to let us know that they both have positive antigen results today. Dad's 72 and mom's 69. Dad's overweight by a fair stretch but otherwise in pretty decent health. My dad began symptoms on Monday. I spent time with them on Sunday (3-4 hours). My antigen test is negative just now so I'll just WFH for a few more days assuming continuing negative results. Probably pull my kid out of daycare for the day tomorrow and friday, hoping to keep from the possibility of spreading it ourselves.

I have a brother and two sisters. Bro and I are normal. Sisters are full Q. My sister on the group thread "I'll bring over some hydroxychloroquine I made the other day. It's a proven therapeutic."

I don't want to go full "Cut the #### you crazy #####es" to my sisters and cause a rift. Thinking maybe call my folks and ask them to talk about the HCQ with their doc before ingesting home made...

Thoughts?

 

[AAABatteries]

My parents just texted to let us know that they both have positive antigen results today. Dad's 72 and mom's 69. Dad's overweight by a fair stretch but otherwise in pretty decent health. My dad began symptoms on Monday. I spent time with them on Sunday (3-4 hours). My antigen test is negative just now so I'll just WFH for a few more days assuming continuing negative results. Probably pull my kid out of daycare for the day tomorrow and friday, hoping to keep from the possibility of spreading it ourselves.

I have a brother and two sisters. Bro and I are normal. Sisters are full Q. My sister on the group thread "I'll bring over some hydroxychloroquine I made the other day. It's a proven therapeutic."

I don't want to go full "Cut the #### you crazy #####es" to my sisters and cause a rift. Thinking maybe call my folks and ask them to talk about the HCQ with their doc before ingesting home made...

Thoughts?

She "made" it?  I can't imagine that even if I thought HCQ worked that I would take some that someone made themselves.

I would do what you said - call your parents and make sure they are consulting their physician about any treatments.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

They know, and being selfish and all, simply don't care.

"Selfish" is telling other people how to dress because you've gotten yourself irrationally afraid.

 

[nirad3]

I have been playing live poker maskless for over 8 months now and it has been fabulous.

I play in a monthly home game where the host requires all that join be vaccinated.  His house, his game, his rules.  Definitely fine with that, but there are some in our group chat that are all up in arms about it still.  

Masks are horribly uncomfortable and it is harder to breathe with them on.

Basically.  And as stated here several times, most people are wearing ill-fitting cloth masks that do little in terms of restricting transmission.  It's just silly.  

And FTR, if it matters - were to fly this afternoon I would be wearing a mask.

I'm traveling tomorrow.  While I've been doing the happy dance in this thread about the mandate being lifted, I'm still on the fence as to what I'm going to do since cases are rising a bit.  I don't see myself wearing a mask in the airport.  Plenty of distancing going on there.  But in the plane?  Sure, maybe I just rock the mask on the off chance that it's restricting transmission by 20-30%.  

 

[jamny]

Got Covid last Friday.

home tested negative Friday AM, so thought cough and sore throat was a virus.  

Friday and Saturday were just brutal. About 40 major, violent coughing attacks. Headache and fog. bad, runny nose.

Sunday AM, same home test was very strong positive. Went to our primary doc Urgent care. Was test positive there also.

Prescribed Paxlovid.  It was amazing how fast and effective it was in minimizing coughing attacks to 2-3 minor ones last two days. I feel like 90% better.

Booster did its job and saved me a trip to the hospital. I had two PE's in 2009, and have been super safe, until last month when numbers were super low here. Likely caught it in Pendleton, OR, playing poker last week. We left Wed night.  

Stay safe. Watch the numbers in your area...

Some seltzer might help. 

I only had a bad cough and didn't seek treatment but the cough stayed with me for 2 months. I finally took a regular daily dose of Claritin-D for about a week and that knocked it out. 

 

[Desert_Power]

 For my entire life people have known that it's possible to get the flu and pass it on to someone who then dies.  But people were not concerned with that (for whatever reason).  I'm assuming you were that way too - I wouldn't call your attitude or behavior selfish.  I mean, there's risks in life. 

Would have expected more people to get behind the idea of masking in these cases after we effectively disappeared the flu for a year. Instead we are back to nonsense about how masks aren't useful. Hard not to see that as either selfish or lacking empathy IMO.

 

[jobarules]

My parents just texted to let us know that they both have positive antigen results today. Dad's 72 and mom's 69. Dad's overweight by a fair stretch but otherwise in pretty decent health. My dad began symptoms on Monday. I spent time with them on Sunday (3-4 hours). My antigen test is negative just now so I'll just WFH for a few more days assuming continuing negative results. Probably pull my kid out of daycare for the day tomorrow and friday, hoping to keep from the possibility of spreading it ourselves.

I have a brother and two sisters. Bro and I are normal. Sisters are full Q. My sister on the group thread "I'll bring over some hydroxychloroquine I made the other day. It's a proven therapeutic."

I don't want to go full "Cut the #### you crazy #####es" to my sisters and cause a rift. Thinking maybe call my folks and ask them to talk about the HCQ with their doc before ingesting home made...

Thoughts?

LOL Jeez

 

[AAABatteries]

Would have expected more people to get behind the idea of masking in these cases after we effectively disappeared the flu for a year. Instead we are back to nonsense about how masks aren't useful.

I think many of us have said - stay home when you are sick.  That's even better than a mask.  I don't disagree - if you are sick and have to leave your house, wear a mask.  But even that advice is open to interpretation.

 

[Sleestak]

I have a brother and two sisters. Bro and I are normal. Sisters are full Q. My sister on the group thread "I'll bring over some hydroxychloroquine I made the other day. It's a proven therapeutic."

Ho ho ho.  My SIL literally drives an "Ivermectin Van" these days.  A true believer trifecta (religious, political, medical).  I'll send her right over.

 

[greenmountaingoat]

She "made" it?  I can't imagine that even if I thought HCQ worked that I would take some that someone made themselves.

I would do what you said - call your parents and make sure they are consulting their physician about any treatments.

Called my mom just now. Please don't take any home made stuff from my sister without talking to your doc first. She seemed to agree with that perspective. "It's mostly tonic and lemons...???"  WTF. 

 

[PhillipPhoto]

The fact that you're so proud of this you felt compelled to share it on a message board is.... telling  

Not proud, just that someone inferred that everybody wears seatbelts all the time. It wasn't out of the blue.

 

[Scoresman]

I don't disagree with some of your points in your next post about long Covid and unknowns but want to address this specifically.  For my entire life people have known that it's possible to get the flu and pass it on to someone who then dies.  But people were not concerned with that (for whatever reason).  I'm assuming you were that way too - I wouldn't call your attitude or behavior selfish.  I mean, there's risks in life. 

When somebody drives a car there's a risk they may kill someone;  when they drive too fast;  when they drive drunk.

That's why I said before, we are down to arguing how risky things are.  People aren't agreeing with how risky it is.  I think at the moment I lean toward the side saying it's not so risky that we need to force people to wear masks, distance, etc.  But I also acknowledge there's people out there at a higher risk - it sucks for them but it sucked in the past for people who needed to avoid getting the flu or some other virus.

And FTR, if it matters - were to fly this afternoon I would be wearing a mask.

Actually no.  I've always called in sick in fear of giving my sickness to others.  I know I'm in a minority here.  I've just always considered it an ####### move to be around other people when sick.  And I know a lot of this is rooted in corporate culture, which is unfortunate.  As for fear of the flu, again its apples and oranges.  I don't believe long flu is a thing as it is with COVID.   But it's the possible permanent long term effects of COVID that are scary and make it a different animal. I'm sure COVID will get to the point where the flu is, but we're not there yet.  It's not endemic yet, and there's still a lot to learn about treating long COVID.

Of course there are risks in everyday life.  It's all about weighing the inconveniences vs. those risks.  We can't ban cars because people might die in a car accident.  But we do mandate seatbelt wearing.  It's a slight inconvenience that minimizes the risk greatly.  People saying masks are a huge inconvenience sound like huge babies to me, (outside of people with asthma and other such conditions. )

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

I promise this isn't a gotcha question as I already mentioned I'd wear a mask if I was flying today.

When would not wearing a mask go from selfish to fine?  What are your metrics or determining factors for when it's ok?

I said a really long time ago in this thread while things were heated that eventually we would run in to a time when we would need an "off ramp" from Covid.  We should have been determining the answers to those questions above if it was important enough for all of us to be on the same page.  I'm not going to call somebody selfish for making their own mind up based on their answers to those questions.  And the reason is simple - I didn't wear a mask in the past when there was a non-zero chance that I could have given a virus to someone.

Less than 10,000 cases per day.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

I promise this isn't a gotcha question as I already mentioned I'd wear a mask if I was flying today.

When would not wearing a mask go from selfish to fine?  What are your metrics or determining factors for when it's ok?

I said a really long time ago in this thread while things were heated that eventually we would run in to a time when we would need an "off ramp" from Covid.  We should have been determining the answers to those questions above if it was important enough for all of us to be on the same page.  I'm not going to call somebody selfish for making their own mind up based on their answers to those questions.  And the reason is simple - I didn't wear a mask in the past when there was a non-zero chance that I could have given a virus to someone.

At a minimum when vaccines are available and a maximum when mandates are dropped.  There is no mandate anymore and there are still people in here calling other people selfish.  That's just absurd.  

 

[culdeus]

Would have expected more people to get behind the idea of masking in these cases after we effectively disappeared the flu for a year. Instead we are back to nonsense about how masks aren't useful. Hard not to see that as either selfish or lacking empathy IMO.

That ended with some pretty bad outcomes though. Particularly with pediatric rsv+flu combos hitting as we reopened with <12s unvaxed

 

[AAABatteries]

Actually no.  I've always called in sick in fear of giving my sickness to others.  I know I'm in a minority here.  I've just always considered it an ####### move to be around other people when sick.  And I know a lot of this is rooted in corporate culture, which is unfortunate.  As for fear of the flu, again its apples and oranges.  I don't believe long flu is a thing as it is with COVID.   But it's the possible permanent long term effects of COVID that are scary and make it a different animal. I'm sure COVID will get to the point where the flu is, but we're not there yet.  It's not endemic yet, and there's still a lot to learn about treating long COVID.

Of course there are risks in everyday life.  It's all about weighing the inconveniences vs. those risks.  We can't ban cars because people might die in a car accident.  But we do mandate seatbelt wearing.  It's a slight inconvenience that minimizes the risk greatly.  People saying masks are a huge inconvenience sound like huge babies to me, (outside of people with asthma and other such conditions. )

Yeah, I've always stayed home when I'm sick but mainly because I don't want to work (or do anything else) when I'm sick.

As for wearing a mask - I don't have an issue doing it myself.  I don't find them to be a big deal to wear.  I don't really any more but would under certain circumstances or if things change.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

Of course there are risks in everyday life.  It's all about weighing the inconveniences vs. those risks.  We can't ban cars because people might die in a car accident.  But we do mandate seatbelt wearing.  It's a slight inconvenience that minimizes the risk greatly.  

If I'm not wearing a seat belt and I get into a car accident at highway speeds, I am in big trouble.  Best case scenario is that I suffer severe injury.  Wearing a seat belt (and keeping my eyes on the road) seems like a very prudent move. 

If I get covid, I'll be sick for a few days.  NBD -- not losing any sleep over it.

Good analogy, but it runs counter to the argument you're trying to make. 

Edit: By all means, keep masking if that's what you'd prefer to do.  I'm generally a fairly risk-averse person, but you're a little more risk-averse than I am and that's fine.  

 

[culdeus]

At a minimum when vaccines are available and a maximum when mandates are dropped.  There is no mandate anymore and there are still people in here calling other people selfish.  That's just absurd.  

To be fair it was dropped by some unqualified judge.  You can be anti mandate and somewhat horrified how it ended.

 

[AAABatteries]

Less than 10,000 cases per day.

What if someone else thinks 9,000 cases per day?  Are you selfish if you don't wear one at that point?

And FTR, I would be fine if we collectively set a metric and all agreed to it.  I'd wear a mask until we reach it, even if it wasn't required.  But when it's left up to everyone to decide I don't think you can fault people who think a little differently than you.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

What if someone else thinks 9,000 cases per day?  Are you selfish if you don't wear one at that point?

And FTR, I would be fine if we collectively set a metric and all agreed to it.  I'd wear a mask until we reach it, even if it wasn't required.  But when it's left up to everyone to decide I don't think you can fault people who think a little differently than you.

This is a number that was circulating in 2020 as when we would essentially be endemic here.  Last June/July we were close, and things were starting to feel "right" around that time as well. 

We are at 40,000 cases per day right now, and we know that number is artificially low and also still rising.

 

[AAABatteries]

If I'm not wearing a seat belt and I get into a car accident at highway speeds, I am in big trouble.  Best case scenario is that I suffer severe injury.  Wearing a seat belt (and keeping my eyes on the road) seems like a very prudent move. 

If I get covid, I'll be sick for a few days.  NBD -- not losing any sleep over it.

Good analogy, but it runs counter to the argument you're trying to make. 

I do think a compelling argument could be made for Long Covid if we determine it's more prevalent.  That's one area that I think I'd like to hear more info.

 

[AAABatteries]

This is a number that was circulating in 2020 as when we would essentially be endemic here.  Last June/July we were close, and things were starting to feel "right" around that time as well. 

We are at 40,000 cases per day right now, and we know that number is artificially low and also still rising.

Forget the number - if you set your number at X do you think somebody else setting it at some lower number can call you selfish?  That's all I'm saying.  I'm fine with saying someone is selfish if they aren't vaccinated (unless they are a hermit), if they aren't following regulations but not if they say they won't wear a mask when it isn't required now.  I think it just goes against how the vast, vast majority have done things forever.

 

[PhillipPhoto]

To be fair it was dropped by some unqualified judge.  You can be anti mandate and somewhat horrified how it ended.

Sort of.  The airlines determined they would drop their own mandates when it was no longer federally mandated.  They didn't have to.  Just like you don't have to fly if you don't want to.  Same goes with any other business.

Good news is that I'm not aware of anyone keeping you from wearing a mask if you want.  

 

[Doug B]

Just getting it period is scary to me.  A lot of people think that with cratering hospitalization and death rates, COVID is like getting the flu/cold now.  This is so not the case though. We know long COVID is a thing.  Permanent loss of taste/smell too.  Now there's research saying it shrinks the brain.  We're just scratching the surface of what we know about long COVID. I don't know why more people don't care about this.

Something to consider is that the vaccines and therapeutics (but especially the former) have considerably defanged COVID at a collective level. Additionally, anyone that's either been vaccinated or recovered from COVID has become a significantly less effective conduit for community transmission.

You're correct that long COVID exists, and that there are significant -- even severe -- manifestations thereof. From what I've been able to gather -- to be sure, from a decidedly non-expert viewpoint -- the risks of long COVID and especially the risks of the worst forms of long COVID have been exaggerated in the media coverage. I don't mean it's all made up, it's a hoax or anything like that. I just mean that stories that most vary from the norm are the stories that get the most run and attention -- and stories of heartbreaking long COVID effects have been employed this way throughout the pandemic. The net effect is that it can look like any one person's risk of severe long COVID is something like 1 in 20 when that impressionistic figure is likely off by three or four orders of magnitude.

Something else a little subtler has led to the idea that long COVID is an especial danger -- the idea that among viral infections, pretty much only COVID can lead to serious lingering symptoms. However, COVID is in no way unique among viral infections in this regard. Reports of long COVID did shine a little bit of a dim light on long influenza which has always been a thing (if largely ignored). Using COVID terms, "long poliomyelitis" causing paralysis is one of polio's most severe (if statistically rare) outcomes and is today the way that viral infection is understood by most Americans. There is also long meningitis, long measles, long rubella, long mumps, and so on.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Forget the number - if you set your number at X do you think somebody else setting it at some lower number can call you selfish?  That's all I'm saying.  I'm fine with saying someone is selfish if they aren't vaccinated (unless they are a hermit), if they aren't following regulations but not if they say they won't wear a mask when it isn't required now.  I think it just goes against how the vast, vast majority have done things forever.

I think that the mask mandates, especially on public transit, should remain in place until we are no longer in a pandemic and/or when cases are not rising.  I am not making the number up, 10,000 per day with declining or a stable curve was a number I have heard several times used for when things would be "back to normal" essentially.   People saying masks are useless (they aren't) or saying they just don't want to wear one and cheering a ruling to lift the mask mandate which such  ruling had zero to do with public safety are selfish.  We know we are in a state of rising infection right now and that this variant is contagious -- why stop masking now instead of when we are on a decline?

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

Sort of.  The airlines determined they would drop their own mandates when it was no longer federally mandated.  They didn't have to.  Just like you don't have to fly if you don't want to.  Same goes with any other business.

Good news is that I'm not aware of anyone keeping you from wearing a mask if you want.  

The airlines don't want to be the mask police.  Their crews have been abused and stressed out.