*** OFFICIAL *** COVID-19 CoronaVirus Thread. Fresh epidemic fears as child pneumonia cases surge in Europe after China outbreak. NOW in USA (15 Viewers)

[TheWinz]

For groceries and retail -- at least around here -- Plexiglas barriers are almost universal. Mask usage among customers is inconsistent, but generally good (north of 2/3 typically, sometimes more like 90%). 

The plexiglass barriers made me think.  As for schools, we aren't really worried about the kid-to-kid transmission, are we?  That's gonna happen regardless, because kids are kids.  The only way to combat that would be for kids to never come in contact with other kids, and that ain't ever happening.  So, how do we have "school as usual" and limit kid-to-teacher transmission?  How about we let the teachers decide?  Many are young and are not high-risk.  They can be in the classroom.  At the opposite end of the spectrum we have the very high risk teachers.  They can teach remotely while students still sit together in the teacher's classroom.  And somewhere in between we have the medium riskers.  They can mask up and sit behind plexiglass.  Let the teachers decide which approach to take, but let the students attend the classes as usual.

 

[Pipes]

For groceries and retail -- at least around here -- Plexiglas barriers are almost universal. Mask usage among customers is inconsistent, but generally good (north of 2/3 typically, sometimes more like 90%). 

Yes but it took a while for stores to put those in.  Restaurants are open at some capacity without customers wearing masks.  Same with daycares.  Daycares are open with extra sanitizing and temperature checks.  There are extra precautions but no masks there.  I believe we need to get kids back to school in some capacity this fall so they have at least some face time with the teachers.   

 

[jamny]

If I've learned anything from this virus, it's "it's not gonna happen" usually does.

 

[TheWinz]

It's more complicated than that when you take an expansive top-of-the-mountain view. Don't confuse 'your normal' with 'everyone's normal'.

In my experience, it is common (if not a majority) of middle and upper-class households to have an elderly relative living with them. YMMV.

I like how you tell me not to confuse my normal with everyone else's, then your next sentence, you tell me what your normal is.  Do you not agree that money is the #1 factor on whether or not a child lives with grandparents?

FBG's are generally middle to upper middle class.  I wonder how many are currently living with more than 2 generations?  My guess is it's a minority, not majority as you have suggested.

 

[Biff84]

We are already ‘isolating’ elderly and other high risk people. Nobody gave them the all clear to go out but we’re currently seeing spikes in hospitalizations in many states. Nursing homes have been on high alert and lockdown for months, yet people are still dying at alarming rates there. As the viral load increases in the low-risk population, it’s bound to also increase in the high-risk population.

It’s not just about isolating grandkids from grandparents. Say you have mom in her 30s with a child in grade school. There’s an outbreak at the school and her kid gets it and passes it onto her. Both her and and her kid are young and healthy and likely won’t show anything more than mild symptoms. But mom works at assisted living home. Because she doesn’t show symptoms, she continues to work and spreads it to the patients there.

We will never be able to eliminate all risk but we have to continue to limit the risk. Too many people seem all to willing to just say eff it because they aren’t personally at risk. And that might be the most glaring reason why we were one of the worst hit countries and likely will have a bad second wave.

 

[Doug B]

 Daycares are open with extra sanitizing and temperature checks.  There are extra precautions but no masks there.

Daycares here never closed at any point -- the idea was that there had to be somewhere for essential workers to place their small kids.

I don't know if local daycare staff wears masks or not. I can get first-hand anecdotes from my sister-in-law ... I'll have to ask. I know that local daycares have ramped up cleaning/disinfecting significantly.

...

Interestingly, so far as I'm aware: local daycares have not become a COVID transmission vector even while staying open these past few months. Could've missed one or two daycare workers somewhere, but it never mushroomed to the point of getting the local media's attention. 

 

[-fish-]

Where I live, we have a fight about school levies every 3 years.   The same people make the same argument every time:  "I don't have kids, so why should I have to pay higher taxes to fund schools?"   (Sometimes it is "My kids already graduated, so I've paid my share.")   What they never recognize is that good schools drive higher property values and benefit the entire community.  

This argument about opening schools, especially when it comes from people with no kids, is the same type of short-sighted thinking.   It's not just direct contact between the kids and high-risk people.   It effects all of the people in between.   

 

[RCon]

How would this work?  Imagine a family where the parent is high-risk (due to say, asthma) and the child is, let's say, 7 years old.  Is the parent supposed to avoid the child?  Let's further imagine it's a single parent household.  Now what?  How about a family with two children, where one has Cystic Fibrosis?  How will those children be educated?

Again, I could be on board, but I think we need to think it through and not rush to "solutions".

They can continue to do whatever they are doing now. The option to go to school if they so choose will just now be available to them.

Who will teach those kids in that scenario?  The "regular teacher" will now be busy in the standard classroom.  If the answer is "more federal money to hire virtual teachers for this purpose" then I might be on board.  I suspect, however, the true answer ends up being "we'll figure it out" then nothing ever happens, especially with our polarized federal government.  That's where I continue to say the devil is in the details, and I can't get on board until those details are worked out and implemented.

 

[Grace Under Pressure]

Schools are definitely tough. Not as straightforward as "schools don't have old people though". There's a reason why shutting down schools is step 1 in transmission mitigation.

Teachers, I really do love you and I live in a school district where the average teacher salary is $95K. Our school superintendent makes $334K. This was documented in a Forbes magazine article. She was called out by name.  I am all for that, actually. Educating our kids is one of the most important things in life, in society. And I value it very highly, I put my money where my mouth is with property taxes north of $20K, with about 90% of that earmarked for schools.

Having said that: I expect better. I've been pretty forthright about how a lack of imagination and a lack of effort have been very disappointing for what we're doing for kids through this. As much as I love teachers on the whole, at an individual level, frankly it's been spotty through all this. And I am sick of hearing about what can't be done. Time for solutions that include kids going to school the majority of the time. Figure it out. Everyone else has to.

 

[skol asylum]

We are already ‘isolating’ elderly and other high risk people. Nobody gave them the all clear to go out but we’re currently seeing spikes in hospitalizations in many states. Nursing homes have been on high alert and lockdown for months, yet people are still dying at alarming rates there. As the viral load increases in the low-risk population, it’s bound to also increase in the high-risk population.

It’s not just about isolating grandkids from grandparents. Say you have mom in her 30s with a child in grade school. There’s an outbreak at the school and her kid gets it and passes it onto her. Both her and and her kid are young and healthy and likely won’t show anything more than mild symptoms. But mom works at assisted living home. Because she doesn’t show symptoms, she continues to work and spreads it to the patients there.

We will never be able to eliminate all risk but we have to continue to limit the risk. Too many people seem all to willing to just say eff it because they aren’t personally at risk. And that might be the most glaring reason why we were one of the worst hit countries and likely will have a bad second wave.

Yep. A lot of selfish people in this country. It irritates the crap out of me.

 

[Doug B]

It's more complicated than that when you take an expansive top-of-the-mountain view. Don't confuse 'your normal' with 'everyone's normal'.

In my experience, it is common (if not a majority) of middle and upper-class households to have an elderly relative living with them. YMMV.

I like how you tell me not to confuse my normal with everyone else's, then your next sentence, you tell me what your normal is. 

That's why I made sure to note "YMMV" -- other people's mileage will vary, and I recognize that. There's nothing wrong with me sharing my normal as another anecdote to add to your normal. I'm not trying to establish supremacy among personal experiences here ... just making the point that it's highly varied, and the fact that it's highly varied is meaningful when thinking about wide-ranging policies.
 

Do you not agree that money is the #1 factor on whether or not a child lives with grandparents?

I don't know -- I don't agree that it's quite that pat. I guess you could usually burrow down to "money" as a #1 underlying reason depending on perspective.

I'm not mincing words here: I would agree that it's "money" that makes an elderly person of little means decide to live with one of their adult children. But plenty of 30- to 50-somethings have elderly relatives with them to avoid putting them in a home -- on one hand, that could be "money", on the other a "personal care choice". Similar are the elderly that move in with their kids (or kids that move in with their elderly parent) to facilitate health care needs even when there's sufficient money to pay for private care.

There are also a lot of cases where it's cultural, as well, and money doesn't overtly play into it at all -- examples would be many East Asian families, many Latin-American families, and many Indian families.

FBG's are generally middle to upper middle class.  I wonder how many are currently living with more than 2 generations?  My guess is it's a minority, not majority as you have suggested.

Clumsy wording on my part -- what I meant to convey is that I know it's not a majority of middle/upper-class household with 3 generations the home, but I do nevertheless think it's common. "Common", to me, is not a firm number ... more of a sense that when you see a middle/upper-class household like that, it doesn't particularly stand out as unusual. If I had to ballpark a percentage, I'd put it at 10-15% of such households. Again, others' mileage may vary.

 

[shader]

We are already ‘isolating’ elderly and other high risk people. Nobody gave them the all clear to go out but we’re currently seeing spikes in hospitalizations in many states. Nursing homes have been on high alert and lockdown for months, yet people are still dying at alarming rates there. As the viral load increases in the low-risk population, it’s bound to also increase in the high-risk population.

It’s not just about isolating grandkids from grandparents. Say you have mom in her 30s with a child in grade school. There’s an outbreak at the school and her kid gets it and passes it onto her. Both her and and her kid are young and healthy and likely won’t show anything more than mild symptoms. But mom works at assisted living home. Because she doesn’t show symptoms, she continues to work and spreads it to the patients there.

We will never be able to eliminate all risk but we have to continue to limit the risk. Too many people seem all to willing to just say eff it because they aren’t personally at risk. And that might be the most glaring reason why we were one of the worst hit countries and likely will have a bad second wave.

Yep, you nailed it.  Isolate the elderly and everyone else live their life, is literally the most selfish solution imaginable, and it won’t work either.

 

[TheWinz]

Who will teach those kids in that scenario?  The "regular teacher" will now be busy in the standard classroom.  If the answer is "more federal money to hire virtual teachers for this purpose" then I might be on board.  I suspect, however, the true answer ends up being "we'll figure it out" then nothing ever happens, especially with our polarized federal government.  That's where I continue to say the devil is in the details, and I can't get on board until those details are worked out and implemented.

Let's say the details never get worked out.  Does that mean schools never open again?  Schools will open with a half-assed plan, and will adjust on the fly.  What I don't see is schools opening, then closing back up.  So yeah, people are gonna have to get on board with a crappy plan, because that's what's gonna happen.

 

[-fish-]

Who will teach those kids in that scenario?  The "regular teacher" will now be busy in the standard classroom.  If the answer is "more federal money to hire virtual teachers for this purpose" then I might be on board.  I suspect, however, the true answer ends up being "we'll figure it out" then nothing ever happens, especially with our polarized federal government.  That's where I continue to say the devil is in the details, and I can't get on board until those details are worked out and implemented.

There's also a small issue with this approach being discriminatory and violating state and federal law.

 

[RCon]

Let's say the details never get worked out.  Does that mean schools never open again?  Schools will open with a half-assed plan, and will adjust on the fly.  What I don't see is schools opening, then closing back up.  So yeah, people are gonna have to get on board with a crappy plan, because that's what's gonna happen.

Oh, I agree that schools will almost certainly open with a half-assed crappy plan because that's what we do.  Doesn't mean I have to like it, agree with it, or refrain from advocating for thoughtful plans.

 

[belljr]

We don't live with my parents but until this my daughter would see them regularly. They would pick her up from school etc ..... So yeah all that has been put on hold.

 

[skol asylum]

I really hope my kids elementary school.has an online option. I really don't want to send her into a building. AZ starts early too, last week of July.

Hopefully we get a vaccine beginning of next year and we can start getting back to normal. In the meantime we are doing everything we can to stay home and minimize risk.

 

[Morton Muffley]

You have more faith in people and politicians than I do....just don't see it happening.  Something I wouldn't mind being wrong about.

This is my perspective as well.  I just don't believe we have the political will to do this again.  Many small businesses are wrongly blaming the shut down on lost revenues, other folks feel hey were misled by politicians as to the length of the shut down, most agree that the first shut down was TOO broadly applied (we can have good debate as to whether this was necessary due to lack of understanding), lastly what we have learned is that this virus predominantly attacks the elderly and/or those with pre-existing conditions.  As most people aren't in this group AND a good many who are don't admit it AND most people are selfish d@#!$...all that adds up to me feeling that we aren't gonna shut anything down again UNLESS all of the following conditions occur:

• we see another NYC-type situation (needn't be in a major city, though that is most likely IMO, just same relative impact)
  
• we WAIT to see it, not predict it will happen, gonna be like doubting Thomas sticking his hand into Jesus' belly
  
• we ONLY shutdown in that very targetted area
  
• we commit to a specific time period (likely 2-3 weeks at most)
  

To be clear, I don't think it SHOULD take all of the above to occur in order to have another (targetted) shutdown, but I do think the above is the minimum of what it will take.

I also believe that many businesses will act sooner, better, and more consistently than our government next time.  All of my F500 clients are working-from-home and don't have plans to return any sooner than Labor Day.  Some have set 1/1/21 as their office return date and ALL of them can turn on a dime and get everyone back working from home in an instant if a minor break-out occurs.  People will do the same with their own behavior.  Schools are a tough call for me, but am fairly certain that there won't be another business shut down.

As with Commish, hope I'm wrong as I'd like us to be able to: 1) take proactive actions 2) in targeted areas 3) for short periods of time 4) based on predictive data.  I hate being cynical AND correct, but given human nature and political cowardice erring on the cynical side has made me alot of $$$ over the past few decades.*

As always, just my opinion.

*Figure of speech, am not betting real $, but I have undoubtedly managed to benefit personally and professionally by having a low expectation on these issues  

 

[AAABatteries]

So it's ok for police, firefighters, and nurses to be essential workers and actually work but not teachers? So teachers aren't essential 

I'm pretty sure a fire can't be put out over the internet.

 

[AAABatteries]

You have more faith in people and politicians than I do....just don't see it happening.  Something I wouldn't mind being wrong about.

Nah, if it gets bad enough they will close things down again, they'll have to.  FTR, I have no clue how we define "bad enough" and if we will ever get there.

 

[beer 30]

Where is this idea that “no one is shutting anything down again” coming from?  Because it’s absurd.

Why would you, or anyone else think that?

You with your hyperbole   Let me illustrate...

I don't understand why it not happening now means that it won't happen in the future?  States are opening because at the moment there is no disaster.  Florida is, overall, fine.  Same with every state.  No state has an outbreak, our lockdowns ended them all.

But as soon as another outbreak hits and they are bringing huge refrigeration trucks to hold all the dead bodies, like they did in New York a few months ago, do we really think it will be business as usual then?

Will all states close down?  Probably not.   But many states will reinstitute the same measures they did the first time, and why wouldn't they?  They worked the first time, so they will work a second time.

Right now, states are hoping that they can learn to live with the virus and keep it from getting out of control.  But I don't see how that says anything about what will happen if it does get out of control.

All the dead bodies? Where, other than NYC, did we see this kind of activity?

I can't speak to whether people will listen to orders.  That's a whole other subject.  But if Ohio becomes a raging hotspot in the future (it's not now), they will definitely reinstitute stay-at-home orders.  

The one thing that may change in the future is that these orders will be more targeted.  But they are coming again, and I think it's amazing to see how many people think they aren't.  No wonder the stock market is up so much.  

Raging hotspot? Where, other than a few larger cities, did we see raging hotspots?

Yep, you nailed it.  Isolate the elderly and everyone else live their life, is literally the most selfish solution imaginable, and it won’t work either.

Whatever, at this point you just go to the furthest extreme in the English language in all your posts to make a point.

You continue to do you shader. I think you go over the top a little much with your statements but you've stayed consistent throughout this whole event and for that :respect:

is Marshall Law like some famous quotes from Laverne and Shirley?

General's Lenny & Squiggy will lead up the response 

 

[Pipes]

I really hope my kids elementary school.has an online option. I really don't want to send her into a building. AZ starts early too, last week of July.

Hopefully we get a vaccine beginning of next year and we can start getting back to normal. In the meantime we are doing everything we can to stay home and minimize risk.

What if we don't?  How long do you plan on isolating your family?  Actually I'd be curious for anyone who thinks this way to answer this question. 

 

[Pipes]

Yep, you nailed it.  Isolate the elderly and everyone else live their life, is literally the most selfish solution imaginable, and it won’t work either.

Asking those higher at risk to take extra precautions than those lower at risk is not isolating the elderly and everyone else living as normal.  Always the extreme with you the answer is somewhere in the middle as always.

 

[AAABatteries]

If I've learned anything from this virus, it's "it's not gonna happen" usually does.

For all we do apparently know, it's amazing how much we don't know about the virus and how much we still apparently haven't planned for.  I'm worried we all are just hoping that things continue to die down without real tactical plans for making that happen, keeping it that way or what to do if it doesn't.  And that's directed at all of us.

 

[shader]

Nah, if it gets bad enough they will close things down again, they'll have to.  FTR, I have no clue how we define "bad enough" and if we will ever get there.

This is how I feel.  I can't define it, but we'll know when it's here.  And community leaders will do what's best for their communities.  Hopefully.

 

[Nathan R. Jessep]

From twitter - 

BREAKING: For the 3rd day in a row Texas set a new record for hospitalizations. Texas has now seen hospitalizations increase 42 percent since Memorial Day.

We now have 2,153 people in hospitals - that's an increase of 97 since yesterday and 642 since Memorial Day. State is still reporting about 13,600 hospital beds available. Gov. Abbott's office assured me we have enough beds to deal with this increase right now.

Over last 7-days we are now averaging 1,927 hospitalizations per day. During previous 7 days that was 1,737 per day. Before that? 1,601 per day. Clearly upward trend.

--

Clearly an upward trend. The question is - is it an acceptable rate? Tough call.

To me, it's more accurate to drill down into that a bit. Say, county level if Texas reports bed availability/census numbers that way.  Because the large metro areas will obviously be able to handle larger case loads than more rural areas will. 

 

[Sammy3469]

For all we do apparently know, it's amazing how much we don't know about the virus and how much we still apparently haven't planned for.  I'm worried we all are just hoping that things continue to die down without real tactical plans for making that happen, keeping it that way or what to do if it doesn't.  And that's directed at all of us.

My real question is what happens in the regular flu season and people don't know if they have that or COVID.  Does everyone get tested for both?  Do kids become COVID spreaders if they get sick? etc.  It's one thing to open up when symptoms equal COVID (with a general low percentage having symptoms), its another when symptoms can be almost anything and more people have symptoms.  

 

[Jackstraw]

Yep. A lot of selfish people in this country. It irritates the crap out of me.

The softest generation. 

 

[shader]

You with your hyperbole   Let me illustrate...

All the dead bodies? Where, other than NYC, did we see this kind of activity?

Raging hotspot? Where, other than a few larger cities, did we see raging hotspots?

Whatever, at this point you just go to the furthest extreme in the English language in all your posts to make a point.

You continue to do you shader. I think you go over the top a little much with your statements but you've stayed consistent throughout this whole event and for that :respect:

General's Lenny & Squiggy will lead up the response 

All the dead bodies - That was NYC.  That was my point.  When a NYC starts happening everywhere, and it could, shutdowns will happen.  This isn't some theoretical thing.  It's a virus.  It is contagious.  Did you see Fauci yesterday?  If I posted what he said as MY opinion, you'd tell me it was extreme.  I'm sorry if in the middle of a pandemic, I'm being too extreme for you.  As you know, this isn't the flu.  But it is the biggest pandemic situation that any of us have ever faced in our lifetime. 

Outside of NYC, there were no raging hotspots the first time, and definitely not in Ohio.  But that doesn't mean anything.   This idea that the 2nd wave is not likely to be as bad as the first is a prevalent one.  But it's probably not true.  Every city in America could become a hotspot, and without severe precautions, WILL become a hotspot.  I'll leave off the word raging, just for you.

And yes, the "isolate the elderly" strategy is one that has been extremely popular on these boards and irl.  People don't want to change their lives, but they want the elderly to isolate themselves for as long as it takes.  That's very selfish.  Of all the "solutions" I've seen thrown about, it's the most selfish one, because it's a solution that requires others to take precautions, so that the young ones don't have to.

 

[AAABatteries]

What if we don't?  How long do you plan on isolating your family?  Actually I'd be curious for anyone who thinks this way to answer this question. 

We have 6 people in our house - my two oldest both are working outside the home (grocery and retail) - my wife and I WFH - so, I'm not exactly isolating my family but we are also following all the rules/suggestions and we basically make no unnecessary trips out.  I'll continue to do that until there's a vaccine or they say the death rate is a lot lower than they thought or herd immunity.

 

[shader]

What if we don't?  How long do you plan on isolating your family?  Actually I'd be curious for anyone who thinks this way to answer this question. 

Isolating is a very extreme term.  The solution, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

 

[AAABatteries]

I should have said no unnecessary trips out without masks.  Also, for me necessary <> essential. 

 

[beer 30]

This is how I feel.  I can't define it, but we'll know when it's here.  And community leaders will do what's best for their communities.  Hopefully.

I get that and I think we expect our leaders to do that. The problem is, no one is going back into lockdown even if some of your worst predictions come true. Anyone under the age of say 40? is int he #### it group and they ain't locking it up again no matter what.

Now, to the point another poster was trying to make, this is going to lead to societal strife involving the police force trying to enforce Governor's mandates. Anything been going on lately involving the police force? Anything? You see where he was going with this? The Governor or community leaders may mandate a lock down, the police may try to enforce another lockdown but I think with the events recently, the populace isn't having it when the police raid the beautician just trying to feed her family.

 

[beer 30]

Isolating is a very extreme term.  The solution, as always, is somewhere in the middle.

Well played

 

[Courtjester]

What if we don't?  How long do you plan on isolating your family?  Actually I'd be curious for anyone who thinks this way to answer this question. 

I don't think anyone is isolating completely. Many at risk individuals are smart and minimizing their exposure. People need to stop confusing caution with isolation. I am a type one Diabetic--my wife and I are working from home as long as we can (that will end at some point and I will have to make some tough decisions when it does) .We do grocery deliveries. We have ventured to a couple smaller stores to get pet supplies or my sports cards. We have done take out a few times. Our 15 year old has gone to meet friends, but it is always in an open air type setting and she brings a mask. This is caution not isolation. if you read the study done on Covid 19 and diabetics and you had diabetes, you would probably don a hazmat suit to go anywhere. It is a complete death sentence with only about 16% of the 1500 people they studied recovering. 

I think too many of the "open it all up" crowd believes this is some big conspiracy and we are all against them. I miss going to Av's games. I miss going to the movies. I want to sit down and have a good seafood dinner. I have played FF for 26 years and I am debating if I can go to the draft and be with the 11 other team owners--that sucks!!  I want this gone, but for that to happen we have to be on the same page. It is so eerie how we are paralleling the 1918 pandemic--did we not learn anything from our mistakes? 

 

[urbanhack]

I'm down in Bend, OR this week again and it just night and day different from PDX. No masks anywhere except retail and restaurant workers.

Had dinner and drinks at Boneyard Brewery and we did all the ordering from an app and paid the bill through the app and bused our own table.  

 

[-fish-]

Nah, if it gets bad enough they will close things down again, they'll have to.  FTR, I have no clue how we define "bad enough" and if we will ever get there.

I think this really depends what state you're in.   At the federal level, there have already been statements that there won't be another shutdown.  More aggressive states will not hesitate to roll back reopening measures.   Other states won't.  Some will make an economic decision that they just can't afford another round of shutdowns and unemployment checks, regardless of the consequences.   

There were predictions that if we took adequate measures to mitigate the potential harm, successful management will look like we overreacted.  Overall our measures were slowly implemented, but generally they were effective to flatten the curve.  So the justaflu crowd bolsters their argument by pointing to empty beds and saying the shutdown was unnecessary.   

I hope the second wave isn't bad.   But the math is still the math.   A lot of people are going to die, and I'm afraid a lot of those deaths are ones that will turn out we could have avoided, but we weren't willing to because it was inconvenient.

 

[shader]

I get that and I think we expect our leaders to do that. The problem is, no one is going back into lockdown even if some of your worst predictions come true. Anyone under the age of say 40? is int he #### it group and they ain't locking it up again no matter what.

Now, to the point another poster was trying to make, this is going to lead to societal strife involving the police force trying to enforce Governor's mandates. Anything been going on lately involving the police force? Anything? You see where he was going with this? The Governor or community leaders may mandate a lock down, the police may try to enforce another lockdown but I think with the events recently, the populace isn't having it when the police raid the beautician just trying to feed her family.

I guess I live in a different part of the country than you.  If the TN governor institutes another shutdown, I see no reason why people wouldn’t obey it?  
 

Most states still have various forms of rules, and most busiensss are abiding by them.  I see no reason why that would change if things take a turn for the worse. 
 

Maybe I’m crazy, but this idea that “no one is going back into lockdown” is one I just don’t agree with.  

 

[skol asylum]

What if we don't?  How long do you plan on isolating your family?  Actually I'd be curious for anyone who thinks this way to answer this question. 

Will assess the situation as we go. AZ cases are risng right now. We're not in a good trajectory. 

As far as isolation goes, we both are able to work at home. Our eldest already does online school. Would like the same option for the 6th grader this coming school year. We have been doing our shopping online and curbside pickup. It's been working fine for us. I'll do what I have to to protect my family. Safety is more important to me than some selfish desire to go congregate in crowds at restaurants, bars, gyms, beaches, hair and nails salons, sporting events, concerts, etc. I'll take the long game over making dumb short term decisions.

 

[beer 30]

I guess I live in a different part of the country than you.  If the TN governor institutes another shutdown, I see no reason why people wouldn’t obey it?  
 

Most states still have various forms of rules, and most busiensss are abiding by them.  I see no reason why that would change if things take a turn for the worse. 
 

Maybe I’m crazy, but this idea that “no one is going back into lockdown” is one I just don’t agree with.  

You don't, I live in SC, right over the border from Charlotte. You really don't see any reason why People wouldn't adhere to a second round of shutdowns without some sort of carnage you outlined previously?

You don't live in a different part of the country, you live in a different reality than I do I guess. Aside form 53' cooler trailers stacking bodies, Charlotte won't be able to stay shuttered. And I don't think the police would be able to enforce it if they needed to.

 

[Grahamburn]

Yep. A lot of selfish people in this country. It irritates the crap out of me.

The softest generation. 

Both you guys able to make your incomes working from home?  Or work in an industry unaffected by a shutdown?

 

[AAABatteries]

I think this really depends what state you're in.   At the federal level, there have already been statements that there won't be another shutdown.  More aggressive states will not hesitate to roll back reopening measures.   Other states won't.  Some will make an economic decision that they just can't afford another round of shutdowns and unemployment checks, regardless of the consequences.   

There were predictions that if we took adequate measures to mitigate the potential harm, successful management will look like we overreacted.  Overall our measures were slowly implemented, but generally they were effective to flatten the curve.  So the justaflu crowd bolsters their argument by pointing to empty beds and saying the shutdown was unnecessary.   

I hope the second wave isn't bad.   But the math is still the math.   A lot of people are going to die, and I'm afraid a lot of those deaths are ones that will turn out we could have avoided, but we weren't willing to because it was inconvenient.

I don't disagree with anything you say here - I think my point is just that there's a shut it down point that is out there for basically 99.999% of us.  It will definitely vary greatly by state and municipality and individual.

 

[skol asylum]

Both you guys able to make your incomes working from home? 

Yes. I'm not judging people that don't have that option. I'm directing my ire at the selfish idiots who can't stay home and NEED to go out and party at the beach, bars, etc.

Just saw you edited your post. We both work in healthcare, supply chain for her, finance for me. We have had cuts and other cost savings measures. Luckily we have not been too affected yet other than she is corporate so was required to take 2 weeks off unpaid. She was able to use her PTO balance to cover it though. Could be more cuts to come, who knows. We opened up to elective surgeries in May but Covid is now spiking again which could shut other things down.

 

[Doug B]

Both you guys able to make your incomes working from home? 

See, that's where the federal government really fell down the stairs. People shouldn't have had to worry about "making an income".

Various forms of easy-to-get, barely-any-strings financial relief should've come really quickly -- even at the risk of significant waste and fraud. Should have been like Oprah passing out car keys to her studio audience.

Still think monthly payments of practically all kinds should have gone under moratorium. Whatever negatives resulted could've been figured out downstream.

 

[skol asylum]

See, that's where the federal government really fell down the stairs. People shouldn't have had to worry about "making an income".

Various forms of easy-to-get, barely-any-strings financial relief should've come really quickly -- even at the risk of significant waste and fraud. Should have been like Oprah passing out car keys to her studio audience.

Still think monthly payments of practically all kinds should have gone under moratorium. Whatever negatives resulted could've been figured out downstream.

This

 

[nirad3]

Will assess the situation as we go. AZ cases are risng right now. We're not in a good trajectory. 

As far as isolation goes, we both are able to work at home. Our eldest already does online school. Would like the same option for the 6th grader this coming school year. We have been doing our shopping online and curbside pickup. It's been working fine for us. I'll do what I have to to protect my family. Safety is more important to me than some selfish desire to go congregate in crowds at restaurants, bars, gyms, beaches, hair and nails salons, sporting events, concerts, etc. I'll take the long game over making dumb short term decisions.

 

[Don't Noonan]

Will assess the situation as we go. AZ cases are risng right now. We're not in a good trajectory. 

As far as isolation goes, we both are able to work at home. Our eldest already does online school. Would like the same option for the 6th grader this coming school year. We have been doing our shopping online and curbside pickup. It's been working fine for us. I'll do what I have to to protect my family. Safety is more important to me than some selfish desire to go congregate in crowds at restaurants, bars, gyms, beaches, hair and nails salons, sporting events, concerts, etc. I'll take the long game over making dumb short term decisions.

I live in Phoenix and have a 14 and 16 year old in high school in the fall.  We received an email from the school the other day with a survey asking what we would prefer, online schooling, normal schooling, or a combination.  I replied normal schooling as I think kids need to get back in school.  The risk is so low for them it doesn't make sense to not get back to normal.

 

[Parrothead]

Yes. I'm not judging people that don't have that option. I'm directing my ire at the selfish idiots who can't stay home and NEED to go out and party at the beach, bars, etc.

Just saw you edited your post. We both work in healthcare, supply chain for her, finance for me. We have had cuts and other cost savings measures. Luckily we have not been too affected yet other than she is corporate so was required to take 2 weeks off unpaid. She was able to use her PTO balance to cover it though. Could be more cuts to come, who knows. We opened up to elective surgeries in May but Covid is now spiking again which could shut other things down.

did people really NEED to go out and protest?   Watching the news the last 10 days, how in the world are you going to convince people who HAVE followed the rules and stayed inside except foe groceries, that you need to follow the rules when thousands and thousands across the country are not..  it is very frustrating, and many of the 'lockdown' politicians  are sending such mixed messages, that nobody cares anymore..  

 

[Nigel]

Both you guys able to make your incomes working from home? 

No kidding - the oversimplifications and generalizations are maddening. Everyone is "selfish", folks don't want to be "inconvenienced"...yup, that's all it is. 

 

[skol asylum]

Was expecting that.